England Vs Brazil / Belgium

[redkev]

6 hours ago, sticks 1969 said:

CAPS is one big reason 

That’s the bit I do understand why people go , 

[Swede]

4 hours ago, Son of Fred said:

Yep, looks like him and with that same inane grin.

[And Its Smith]

Southgate said he thought England played well. He doesn’t seem to be someone who just says things to deflect so I can only conclude that he believes that.  It’s a worry if that’s the case 

[Markthehorn]

16 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Southgate said he thought England played well. He doesn’t seem to be someone who just says things to deflect so I can only conclude that he believes that.  It’s a worry if that’s the case 

The possession and running stats probably look good ..

[Gert Mare]

In fairness England had loads of box entries.

[exAtyeoMax]

9 minutes ago, Markthehorn said:

The possession and running stats probably look good ..

Cliche alert I’m no expert but for all that possession we never looked like scoring. 

[Lew-T]

It was a game against an elite team where we narrowly lose it. Southgate’s subs then don’t make any difference.

All sounds too familiar previously at tournaments.

[Dastardly and Muttley]

2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

It’s a relatively inexpensive way for families in particular to watch some of the best players in the world in one of the biggest stadiums in the world.

The spectacle of watching England v Brazil at Wembley would not be forgotten by any young person, even if it’s not a particularly great game.

When I say relatively inexpensive - that’s in comparison to a high profile premier league game at a big stadium, which is less easy to get tickets for, tickets are more expensive, and generally requires a club membership to give you a chance of buying one.

An England friendly against a top team is probably the most accessible way of watching elite level footballers.

Yep, taking my 3 kids to their first ever game at Wembley on Tuesday. For me, my wife and the kids, the total of the tickets was £94.

For me and one kid to go and see City vs Millwall was heading into the region of £60.

I live in Maidenhead, so travel in isn’t that bad. Just a bit gutted with injuries robbing us of the chance to see Kane, Saka, Grealish and De Bruyne.

[Markthehorn]

15 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Cliche alert I’m no expert but for all that possession we never looked like scoring. 

Ha yes agree there .

New keeper and defence but hardly tested .

 

 

[Marv Smyth]

Took the family (4 of us) to Wembley a few years back - 2019 for the Euros qualifier v Bulgaria (paid for decent seats (mid level on the half way line)), and paid for parking nearby.  All in, not crazy expensive but still a few hundred quid.  4:0 win (Kane with 3), so even though the atmosphere was a bit flat, it was a decent day out. 

What really made it though, was that we got there early (as you do with kids in tow) and bumped into the legend that is Glenn Hoddle (he was doing the commentary with Clive Tyldesley) - he’d had a heart attach the year before, while on BT Sport and had only just made a return to TV.

He was more than happy to stop and chat to us/ pose for pics etc.  Total gent, top bloke….really made our day!  

[RedRock]

32 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

It was a game against an elite team where we narrowly lose it. Southgate’s subs then don’t make any difference.

All sounds too familiar previously at tournaments.

Because he has the same issue as Manning and all the other FA straitjacket coaches, desperately lacks in-game management ability. Use your head, if it isn’t working change the system FFS, be innovative try something different, unexpected. Get the opposition out of their comfort zone. 

It’s almost as if they are slaves to the coaching manual. 

[ORANGE500]

It's very difficult to accurately assess just how good Southgate's England really are, the qualifiers have become a formality due to the poor quality of opposition you could imagine England book the tournament HQ as soon as the draw for the groups has been concluded.And the very favourable routes to the latter stages in 2018 and the subsequent Euro's has perhaps led to an over estimation of this current group and some now expect England should be winning every game against any opposition when in reality they probably aren't any better than previous eras or maybe not even as good.However most of the traditionally strong nations in  Europe and indeed the world i.e Germany Holland even Brazil  are at their lowest ebb so maybe football will come home this summer but in my opinion it won't be because it's the best England team ever rather a lack of good sides in the tournament.

[Davefevs]

I don’t watch them religiously like I used to, but my gut feel is that we aren’t as good as many suggest.  We have a few very good players, but so do most of the other best 6-8 international sides.

Can we go deep into a tournament?  Yes

Can we win it?  Much less likely.  We are likely to hit a better team than us the further we go.

Are we progressing better in tournaments under Southgate than we have in the past?  Absolutely.  For some that means they think we should win.

Fifa rankings, us and the other top teams.

There are a couple in that list I might fancy us against, but most I’d say we are no better than equal to, some worse than.  

 

[Markthehorn]

Got some excellent players with loads of potential but lack depth in certain areas like defence I feel .

[Phileas Fogg]

5 hours ago, Son of Fred said:

Oh that's it now - that is Manning's "Little Lee". Great shout.

[ORANGE500]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t watch them religiously like I used to, but my gut feel is that we aren’t as good as many suggest.  We have a few very good players, but so do most of the other best 6-8 international sides.

Can we go deep into a tournament?  Yes

Can we win it?  Much less likely.  We are likely to hit a better team than us the further we go.

Are we progressing better in tournaments under Southgate than we have in the past?  Absolutely.  For some that means they think we should win.

Fifa rankings, us and the other top teams.

There are a couple in that list I might fancy us against, but most I’d say we are no better than equal to, some worse than.  

 

I have to disagree with you  that the teams in the list above all have some very good players the standard of international teams has never been lower for instance Italy once had the quality of Baggio and Vieri up front and the Dutch Van Basten and Bergkamp kind of sums it up really .

[Phileas Fogg]

What I would like to see England do is, aside from the first 11 plus usual subs - don't use the rest of the squad for mediocre filler players, instead adopt a more "special teams" approach to squad selection like an NFL team.

What I mean by that is having people like James Ward-Prowse in the squad purely for dead ball situations. Like we used to do with McCombe / Flint in days gone by, have a particularly tall defender like Dan Burn, in the squad - perhaps to use more as an aerial attacking threat rather than as a defender (although his versatility might be useful). Have a couple of penalty specialists in the squad (Toney being one) and a goalkeeper who's particularly strong in that dept in the squad, even if statistically he's not as good all round as say Ramsdale.

If you get the core 18 or so players who'll rotate in and out for starting places/extended sub appearances - surely it would make more sense to choose specialists (even if inferior in other areas) within the squad - especially given the tendency of international tournaments to go to extra time/pens. I think we'd stand a better chance of winning that way than just filling the squad up with 6/10 prem squad players.

- the flaw with my own argument here is that it makes a strong case for including Jordan Henderson, given his experience, which I'd be vehemently against.

Edited March 24 by Phileas Fogg

[Simon bristol]

13 hours ago, TV Tom said:

But unfortunately we have a hopeless manager in charge

I was there, the similarity in mentality with manning is uncanny. Everything is well presented, and corporate, but there is no passion, winning would be nice, but not essential, as long as we get our required amounts of possession, and stick to the plan then its fine. Without kane there was no focal point or threat, like us with our forwards, foden is a great talent but just doesnt create much for england, but no one does. bellingham is one of the most desired midfielders in the world, but has to stick in the system. Id be happy to give it to klopp,,, get some passion and aggression back in our team.

[Robbored]

How many of us thought that Southgate would take England to the final of the last Euros? Not many, me included having witnessed some truly grim performances in the group phase.

Obviously the priority is to get out of the group but the turgid way it was achieved was really really grim and I was certainly expecting England to lose in the next stage.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

How many of us thought that Southgate would take England to the final of the last Euros? Not many, me included having witnessed some truly grim performances in the group phase.

Obviously the priority is to get out of the group but the turgid way it was achieved was really really grim and I was certainly expecting England to lose in the next stage.

The main counter to that is we’ve seen the likes of Italy struggle in groups, Argentina get beat in La Paz and then come tournament time they produce. Not saying England will but for me that’s where you make the judgement rather than on the unconvincing win in North Macedonia or two three quarter sides playing a friendly they didn’t want to be at last night………

My gut feeling is we’ll reach the latter stages and then find a way to lose against a quality side……just like we did against Italy and France when it counted last two tournaments.

[Jose]

51 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t watch them religiously like I used to, but my gut feel is that we aren’t as good as many suggest.  We have a few very good players, but so do most of the other best 6-8 international sides.

Can we go deep into a tournament?  Yes

Can we win it?  Much less likely.  We are likely to hit a better team than us the further we go.

Are we progressing better in tournaments under Southgate than we have in the past?  Absolutely.  For some that means they think we should win.

Fifa rankings, us and the other top teams.

There are a couple in that list I might fancy us against, but most I’d say we are no better than equal to, some worse than.  

 

A different manager and I’d fancy us against all of them. I really would. We have one of the best “ spines” of a team out of them.

Pickford

Stones

Rice

Bellingham

Kane

It’s a travesty we struggle so much against the better nations. I’m not saying we should be stuffing them but our record against them is embarrassing. I’m not someone who gets carried away with England either. I genuinely think this team should be winning things. 
 

We won’t with ultra cautious Southgate though. 
 

 

[Numero Uno]

24 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

I was there, the similarity in mentality with manning is uncanny. Everything is well presented, and corporate, but there is no passion, winning would be nice, but not essential, as long as we get our required amounts of possession, and stick to the plan then its fine. Without kane there was no focal point or threat, like us with our forwards, foden is a great talent but just doesnt create much for england, but no one does. bellingham is one of the most desired midfielders in the world, but has to stick in the system. Id be happy to give it to klopp,,, get some passion and aggression back in our team.

Foden is a fantastic, top player who produces alongside other top players who have the movement to utilise his ability on the ball. Unfortunately he was playing with the likes of Gallagher and Watkins!! Put Kev in our side and it would be the same. The ONLY player I’ve ever seen that could single handedly drag a bang average side over the line was Maradona. Englands first choice eleven isn’t bang average but 12 onwards is!!

Edited March 24 by Numero Uno

[RedRock]

2 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

I was there, the similarity in mentality with manning is uncanny. Everything is well presented, and corporate, but there is no passion, winning would be nice, but not essential, as long as we get our required amounts of possession, and stick to the plan then its fine. Without kane there was no focal point or threat, like us with our forwards, foden is a great talent but just doesnt create much for england, but no one does. bellingham is one of the most desired midfielders in the world, but has to stick in the system. Id be happy to give it to klopp,,, get some passion and aggression back in our team.

A team usually takes on the characteristics of their manager.

The FA have got the team that they deserve by appointing Mr Anonymous. If you want to ‘win at all costs’, then appoint a manager with those characteristics. 

[The Batman]

Install early 90s Real Madrid mode. 

The opposition can score 3, as long as we score 4. We have the attacking talent. Let them off the leash. Go out there with the mindset to outscore the opposition as opposed to not wanting to concede. 

[redkev]

14 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

no one is forcing you babber

I wonder why I bother with the coach down to Bristol to watch an ‘exhibition’ match at Ashton Gate. 

No one is forcing me , each to there own , been watching city for 50 years through and let me assure you and others it has been much worse than this before , saying that I’m not happy with the goings on along with everyone else 

[Markthehorn]

18 minutes ago, The Batman said:

Install early 90s Real Madrid mode. 

The opposition can score 3, as long as we score 4. We have the attacking talent. Let them off the leash. Go out there with the mindset to outscore the opposition as opposed to not wanting to concede. 

We’d probably find a way to lose !

5-4 or something .

Could happen with our defence as can lack pace which Brazil  exposed.

 There is no doubt if all fit we have some of the best attacking players around .

[Phileas Fogg]

9 hours ago, Lew-T said:

It was a game against an elite team where we narrowly lose it. Southgate’s subs then don’t make any difference.

All sounds too familiar previously at tournaments.

In his defence - and i’m not a Southgate fan - he was clearly trying out a few squad players. Brazil - and this is a weak Brazil side - bought on the best players they could. We started Gallagher and bought on Lewis Dunk.

I can see what he was trying to do - but he’d do better to actively try and win these high profile games than use it to tinker.

[phantom]

I never realised that things were so regimented, took this photo in the England dressing room today 

[Markthehorn]

Walker and Maguire out of the Belgium game .

Rico Lewis called up .

Edited March 24 by Markthehorn

[The Bard]

11 hours ago, Lew-T said:

It was a game against an elite team where we narrowly lose it. Southgate’s subs then don’t make any difference.

All sounds too familiar previously at tournaments.

A lot of the subs were planned to give players on the periphery a chance and most flunked it. DUNK, Gomez and Konsa are not doing it for me as elite defenders.