Sheltons Army

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Because he can only come up with solutions that centre on changing the eleven or the formation…”here’s a team that would’ve done better than the one he picked”

Liam could do a lot worse than simply pick up his twitter feed every Thursday / Friday

Krause can have a couple of days golf 

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On the Ian Gay front one thing.

It is excellent I should add that @headhunter @Curr Avon and anyone else who appears on FBC come on here and can debate and defend their points they may make on here or the Podcast.

What Ian Gay does is up to him but definite credit to those who do that.

Well said ,and quite right 

Imagine if IG was on here mind

Probably need it’s own sub forum  

Tell you what players anywhere want to enjoy training first and foremost 

I have no idea how they find Liam Mannings work on the training ground but , and times have changed slightly , but the majority , at any club will find the sort of work , LM , Pep , or any other technical orientated / process type coach hard work mentally and a lot will find it a bit boring and tedious 

Man City players have alluded to the difficulties adapting

It requires players to be real keen students and buy in 

The reality , as in every profession, that’s not everyone 

It’s  hard work as a HC to go this route and get a high majority to fully buy in or study

Many professional footballers really want to have fun on the training ground , and practice their individual skills or play some form of game and a few laughs with mates.

Thats not a criticism , just understandable reality and not really unnatural 

What balance you find on that training ground is crucial

I havnt a clue , but wonder whether the change in regime and approach is having an affect  

So where are we up to ....

Jon went to the cash till , realised that he didn’t have enough in his account for a Starbucks , had woken up irritable , and decided right there that oaf Pearson and his man Rennie and those jokey popular coaches , they all had to go go go 

Yes yes , that Alex Scott money was ok but the Oaf and his sidekicks are sucking money out the nest egg 

Brian had said for a while they need moving on , Ill have a chat with him who he thinks we can get in a bit cheaper ....

Every penny counts after all , and the new infinity pool isn’t paying for itself 

Right , Brian ......

So is there anything else I missed ? 

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

In what way do they fit.  Please explain?

I think , They do , but only if you’ve just kicked back a 10” spliff 

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Penny Wise, Pound Foolish springs to mind if that truly is the plan or a key factor of it.

It’s complete waffle and tosh Mr P , you know it , And I know it and I would think %99.99 know it

Yes we have looked to work to a budget post the mess the Lansdowns Ashton and Wonderboy got is in ,

but the claim that NP was sacked shafted to save a few £ is simply hilarious

Some of the tosh the Club lemmings And apologists come up with is astonishing 

4 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Probably not - but they are accountants who judge a business on cost before performance.  They were badly stung in the Covid period and have developed a cost effective way forward. It may be that the only way we can progress is if the academy stumbles across three or four players like Scott at the same time. It is also the way we managed to get promotion into the old first division.

Firstly they are not accountants 

Jon worked in a call centre once though 

Btw - These are the owners that threw endless money at LJ (Who you also lauded)

The Same ‘accountants’ who have spent more to get Twine in on loan than some of Pearson’s signings 

Good cost cutting 

And.  ’Stumble across 3 or 4 Alex Scotts’

1 minute ago, Bat Fastard said:

You can also add the evidence of our recruitment policy to get cheaper lower league players. 

The policy / plan that Richard Gould and Nigel Pearson formed you mean ?

5 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I'm saying that the club is owned and run by accountants. Work it out from there. This is the same reason that the academy is so important because it is a cheaper way to recruit and pay players. Those who don't quite make it can be sold or provide sell on clauses. There are no coincidences.

Yeah , ok

It all makes sense now

You are very polite but are absolutely the perfect lemming type Supporter the Lansdowns love

For cost conscious accountants their performance on a financial basis is quite something 

* BTW , fwiw they are not Accountants

Just now, Bat Fastard said:

Nigel plus two coaches replaced by a manager and coach from the lower leagues. Go figure the cost and add in Rennie whilst you are there.

So you’re saying Nigel and his team were sacked to save money ?

10 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Management was clearly not his best position but his vast football experience and devotion to the club are worth a lot in my opinion. I also reckon that he is part of a management team that costs a lot less than previous iterations. If he continues to recruit well, then he is doing his job.  I very much doubt if he could sack someone like Nigel, but he would have been under some pressure from the bean counters to help to lower costs. After all it is a professional club.

Wow

La Di la Di la Di la 

Breaking News

Nigel Pearson removed from post in cost cutting exercise

7 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

31% win rate - the same as Pearson's first full season in charge

In context - That’s failure then 

47 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Your not an average fan, you are very knowledgeable one. 

But park the comments of the club to one side about where the squad is and where the team can finish and think about what has been stated about its playing approach.

There is a vision there, a bigger picture and very likely a model of play what Liam Manning x BCFC want. It may not be called any of those things, but that big  picture is there.  

That model is the vehicle to deliver success. And that model of play should drive recruitment, and development. Its the where we/they want to be. 

The big picture is utopia, we are always working toward this. This model will have its principles those front foots, possession etc, and its sub principles how we keep possession, move the ball, its patterns. 

Each role within the team players then need key qualities (good on the ball) to meet the team expectations leading to that vision.

And it’s a big and. Nothing is perfect. Clubs are always in a transition stage of some sort. Reaching the vison (non layman - actualisation blah) is rare, and staying there is rarer still, teams are in cycles .. Klopps Liverpool - Moving towards, great, not so good, moving back and great again

Bristol City squad is not what they say it is. It can’t deliver that lofty expectation stuck out there.  It wont be this front foot possession footballing beast now because the aptitudes of the players can’t meet the ridiculously high expectation.

Working towards the vision, the big picture, the model is a linear process. Its abc, 123 and compromises will have to be made to move towards the vision. Liam Manning is not going to deliver the front foot possession footballing beast now, that’s ******* stupid, but he can move towards the vision linearly and marginally.

Across the team, the team collectively will gain knowledge with training, knowledge is frequently familiarity. Great coaches can take a season to reprogramme great players, Manning and the players? Time is needed.

Possession and front foot can be delivered. The two do exist in unison. Liverpools build up play is clearly possession based then they will stick in a big diag, speed up .. Their passing patterns also allow them to counter press aggressively. Its still possession on the front foot. Control and possession, Bournemouth in the championship did similar turning the burners on in the final third. Ipswich now control possession, and then attack vigorously when they break lines.   

The football there requires key skills in certain positions. Manning appears to want to have more control and wants to play more positionally. It is a measured approach that necessitates having good players behind the ball to reset retain. The team needs more players who can retain and switch –  effective circulation. The team doesn't have this effective circulation hence  passing, ponderous play, lack of penetration .. But this should be an expectation because the approach is being ingrained. The team is being developed, its in transition.    

GK is a problem. The circulation of the ball is not effective. Problem.  

CB looks .. Dickie can do a bit.

CDM/HM ok. The kid Max Bird might be good. Naismith made of something other that glass could play the drop in circulate the ball Alonso (ahem) role.

I struggle to think of any good possession team without good on the ball through that spine. In those first two thirds I would expect to see change. The base feeds opportunity to theoretically attack more frequently, and also counter press as the team moves up as a unit. Increase ability here, options, numbers and cohesion improves.

I haven't gone on further because this is build from the back, and that is like the football. Its a team being built. 

Didn't once use behaviours!! 

Thanks

@Cowshed

You clearly have a high degree of knowledge , qualifications etc of modern coaching and philosophies , and appear to understand what LM is trying to and on the path of developing.

It would be good for me , and the average fan , if in layman’s terms,  if you could set out what this is and what we should expect to see, and notice as it develops,  and what profile of recruitment we could expect to see from him moving forward 

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@Sheltons Army I’ve watched a couple of Cotts recent pre-match interviews.  He’s got that twinkle back, that bit of mischievousness back in his answers to the questions.  The worm is beginning to turn in Nailsworth.  Will still be a tough job to keep them up, but he’s at least given them hope.

Good, would be a good story and quite apt , back home or near to , after all his health fights

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

So did I.  And in fairness I don’t think January deviated much from that, albeit January isn’t the window to judge per se, this summer is.

The talk from Tins re the striker doesn’t appear to deviate either, so we’ll have to sit back and watch.

But there is of course a downside to recruiting, and that’s on pathway.  And over our time back in the Championship, it’s been the home grown players that generate the most money, not the buy to sell players.

With the recruitment Dave ,

Either we will see a different style of play arrive under LM

or , if they are going to actually back Manning , surely , a change in priorities recruitment wise

Im sure LM would like very good technical players who can also run all day , be aggressive , athletes , with pace , wouldn’t anyone

But the reality is you normally have to compromise attributes at this level

I don’t see the core attributes Tinnion repeatedly highlights as those that would be a priority on LMs

Im genuinely intrigued , after Tinnions recent, repeated , comments about a striker , what we target and bring in 

7 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

He needed Nige out of the way for his own career progression. 

He is now essentially in charge of the whole footballing operation. Manning picks the team (probably with BT's input) and takes the training, everything else is down to BT. 

Nige was standing in his way. As a traditional manager Nigel had more responsibilities than Manning does as a head coach. BT didn't like that. 

I think it's probably some sort of hang over from his own managerial career. If we would have got promoted under Nige then everyone's praising Nige. Now as BT has made all the decisions, if we get promoted under LM then BT gets the plaudits. He's determined to make people believe that he's not a failure is my synopsis. 

In fairness 
 

If he gets us promoted or even close (Without throwing massive £ at it)

You have to say ‘And so he actually should’  

This is definitely BTs ship

18 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I So the one question I have is and it's not been answered by anyone at the club, why the hell did we appoint a manager that doesn't fit into all of that?

So ,and keeping it to the playing style approach and , to me the glaring discrepancy about a Tinnions repeated sound bites , front foot football ,athletic, runners , pace , etc

Surely the simple answer is one of two things Gull , 

A We’ve (Tinnion) has decided to take a completely different playing path philosophy based around possession , control , processes etc and then identified LM as the ideal fit

or 

B BT , for whatever reason only he could explain , hooked onto LM as the next bright thing and with JL was prepared to chuck aspects of the footballing philosophies , and follow and back Manning instead

I guess there’s the third option that they diidnt comprehend or understand what they were appointing in terms of playing philosophy etc , but as I’ve said previously , that’s ridiculously absurd even for them

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It’s just a bit odd all round. It is understandable that people have concerns about Manning - and one of them is a lack of experience. Then in this thread you have people backing the idea of appointing a manager with even less experience? 

I imagine it’s seen as a way to continue Pearson’s legacy - but since when has it been a binary choice between a Pearson model or a Manning model? Seems very reductive.

Why stop at King? If the prerequisite is being a former Pearson favourite with 0 managerial experience why not approach Wes Morgan or Robert Huth?

If the prerequisite is to be a fan - what about Louis Carey or Scott Murray?

Just a bit of a strange lurch which seems very reactionary.

What does lack of experience mean PF ?

Widely used term but it’s actually much more about what sort of experience , what quality and relevance of experience 

On the theoretical debate I’d suggest Andy King merely has slightly different ‘experience’ to LM and maybe a slightly different help with the numerous skill sets required to be a successful HC / Manager

This isn’t aimed at LM , AK or anyone else but a wealth of experience , crap ,or irrelevant experience , is of little use , particularly if you are somebody who doesn’t learn from it , whoever you are.

There are so many different skill sets required to be a good successful HC / Manager, some have lots of experience of coaching but can’t control a dressing room , some can’t or don’t coach but can get responses from players etc 

I guess it all depends on your priorities when appointing

fwiw , personally I like Leaders , with a bit of ‘charisma’ (The right arm of Klopp will do !)

I always thought hearing both Gary Johnson and Cotts speak at some events etc , there was something about them dragging you onboard , and you would think ‘yep I’d like to play for you’ 

That of course can’t be your only asset , but would be definite wants for me , because groups of footballers need to buy in and engage with the Head if you want success

Just now, spudski said:

It falls totally at BTs feet imo. He's put all this in place. 

It’s certainly what should be the very first question anyone in the media should be asking when he next pops up

16 minutes ago, spudski said:

Well we certainly haven't been playing like he describes under Manning. 

Less hard press, less running, less physical and more about moving the ball quicker and possession. 

Also a higher reliance on width.

We look nothing like BT describes.

And if you are going to fill your team with unproven raw talent from league 1 and a coach with no higher experience other than league 1...and get rid of all your experienced older heads and Pros...the likelihood is you'll end up in League 1 where they're coming from.

It's madness to get rid of experience.

But yeah..BT knows best...his managerial career tells us that

Good post Spud

The apparent sudden change in core philosophies with no one at the Club mentioning it is something I’ve highlighted and a concern particularly with regards to recruitment 

But the loss of experience is my biggest concern 

If LM doesn’t work out and we are falling with  a mixed squad of players for philosophies , and we go on a dangerous slide , we are likely to look very ‘vulnerable’ , if you rate experience at those sort of times.

And if you decide to twist , where do you go then , another young coach at a time of crisis , a firefighter ? , someone more experienced but with his ideas on philosophies ?

Im absolutely , praying he does,  (Work out) because ,otherwise , we could end up with a real mess here .

Its not his fault , but there’s actually a lot of pressure and reliance on Liam Manning to deliver 

It would be nice to know if they have a plan should it not work out , I wonder ........ afraid I doubt it 

8 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

Another woeful performance, as i remember just one shot on target

Fully fit squad too wasn’t it 

1 hour ago, Malago said:

They put up with LJ losing 8 games in a row.  Manning will be our manager next season full stop.

Put up with him ? - They gave him a new extended contract 

1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think the problem is in your last paragraph - to expand 

“we are quite clearly trying to play football”

We may be. But it’s a football that a large number of people find negative and boring. It’s down to personal preference but you can’t knock people for not liking it - so null

We have a young manager,  

I’m not sure why this matters. Bas Savage was shit at 18 and 28, I’ve no doubt he’ll be shit at 48. If he’s good enough he’s old enough but being young isn’t a qualification unless you want to shag Leonardo DiCaprio

We are signing young hungry players,

 I agree with this. And I liked our January window bar Twine (And in hindsight Medube), but most of the players are punts. And this isn’t some sea change from Pearson.

We are developing our own players. 

But this is. Since Liam came on board we’ve seen Jamie Knight Lebel have 40 minutes - and that’s it. He’s not filling the bench, academy players minutes have gone down. The academy who have played were established before he got here. And our most saleable asset in Conway has gone backwards, This is nonsense.

Actually quite weird that some on here (and it really is just on here  ) don’t seem to want to get behind the a club and team? Weird. 
 

But we all do. The difference is between blindly following and appropriately questioning. That’s all this is.

But ‘it’s a difficult game’ Silvio

La di la di la di la 

4 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

A man with no experience would not unite the fanbase 

It’s a hypothetical scenario because it won’t happen but he would unite the fan base more than it is now

Not that , that’s difficult 

Lets appoint serial failure wonder boy again - you idolised him and his experience