Sheltons Army

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Thanks….not.  I just typed a long reply to @The Dolman Pragmatist and the thread gets closed whilst it gets cleaned, so I lose my post.

The essence of it was that you look to much at results and league tables, and ignore the context of the situation.

When we beat Brum 3-0 in game 36 of that season we were 13 points off of 6th and 13 points off of 22nd.  Nige basically started the rebuild.  He started working out who he wanted to stay, who he didn’t, who he could get rid of beyond the OOC players.  He experimented.  That was his plan.  The CEO was of course “running towards adversity”!

We had a manager who didn’t give a toss about his own PPG, but one who knew the dangers ahead in 2021-22 season.

But if you want to ignore that, that’s fine.

+++++

 OTIBers don’t need to come onto a thread a try to trash him every chance they get.  Show some f++king respect for a bloke who put this club back on the right track.  We’ve got some snide posters on here.

Superb post Dave

And I’d add to your summary 

‘Whilst not in the best of personal health’ 

Let’s not forget this guy had a serious bout of Co-Vid , not quite Cotts serious , but not a million miles away, besides his back issues.

For the majority of his time got on with the messy job without a hint of a moan and any irritation came only , when I’d suggest he felt he’d earnt the right , and got the Club into a situation , where he , and his staff , deserved a bit of backing and it didn’t come 

In fact what he got was digs and criticism from JL and I’d assume Tinnion about King etc etc

4 minutes ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said:

Hull had been relegated from a better position than we were in at the time Holden got sacked.

We were absolutely heading in one direction, which fortunately was stalled for a while with the wins at Boro and Swansea. Two matches we would’ve got zero from the way things were going with Holden.

Pearsons real achievement was keeping us in the Championship the following season when you consider the finances. The fact we never really looked in danger either is remarkable. 

With Pearson in charge we may not have quite had enough to finish in the top 6 but I also wasn’t worried about relegation. Next season could be interesting, let’s hope it’s for the right reasons eh? Not sure I’m too confident at the moment.

BOOM

Watching Stokes for Aldershot the other day , Bobby Gould’s grandson was playing !

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

So without those 3 wins, we'd have been relegated. 

So therefore as Pearson won us those 3 games, he saved us from relegation. 

I think , with the wrong appointment , the season after was the more dangerous one Gull with the alarm bells

There was some immediate need for some stabilising but it was deeper than that looking forward

2 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Yes, I agree. But the decision on his future (in the absence of sustained progress) is not mine or yours to make and I don't take dismissals personally- you should try it!

Personally

What are you actually on about ?

For me it’s an opinion, and clear opinion,  quite simple ,about the job someone did for my Club , something that you always strongly claim is what you are all about ..... 

The fact that affected me personally because I really enjoyed what I was seeing , 

( in terms of health and revamp of the Club,  for what I regarded as a crucial period ) maybe makes it personal

If so I’m quite happy with that 

You wanted him binned after 9 months

2 minutes ago, Super said:

Get all out that but it's been done to death now. Surely comes a point when you move on don't you think?

Yes I do Super and haven’t compared NP to LM at any point or used him in a debate about Manning

But , for the reasons I’ve indicated above in my posts , I will continue to challenge some of the unappreciative and complete b****** (IMO) thrown in his direction or at supporters who do appreciate , whilst it’s still garbled.

1 minute ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Just before Nige was sacked, I had a flashback to Paul Simpson pleading for help. People tend to forget just how dire the situation was at that time. No wonder some people hold Nige in high regard. 

Yes , Max , good recall

Says it all really

See , for me , Dicks to the present day he did a job that won’t show on an honours list in terms of a promotion but was as crucial as some of our promotions 

If we’d slid at that point we would have been bemoaning that for probably the next decade whilst we found a GJ or SC to turn the ship around at that level (We average 8 yrs to get out of L1) 

What is quite stunning is that having an opinion about whether he had taken us ‘as far as he can’ is one thing

I keep saying it but for some (sadly a fair few) not having the nouse , Recognition or comprehension of all the good things he did do at OUR Club , when we really needed it , is actually quite depressing 

Then the few who go a step further and hilariously ridicule those who did , and do appreciate , what he did .... is simply embarrassing 

By the way , keep laughing ,  because for very good reasons , we always will 

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

2022

No 2021 Dave

The ‘Pearson , Fleming Out’ was November 21 

8 minutes ago, Super said:

I thought people wanted to move on from talking about Pearson? 

We could have put a stop to it all by sacking* him in Nov 21 when he’d Proved , beyond any doubt that he was not up to the role 

* Caveat ,
 

if you are LJ , replace ‘sacking’ ,  with ‘handing new 4 year contract’

Enough signs that we won’t be any worse than mid table , or even lower mid , next season 

And that’s an honest answer

9 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Well, if you think BCFC losing is comedy then I think that says everything about your so say support for this club. The 'can't let go' club are very funny. 

I started a thread in Nov 22 entitled 'Pearson Out'- simply as I didn't think he'd take us anywhere as he subsequently proved to all the world- I never said anything remotely insulting about him.. Shame that supporting revisionist history has become your thing. Let it all out, Dave, but try and keep it real.

Indeed you did , Fleming too

A whole 9 months (inclusive of 3 summer months) into his tenure having taken on the complete Cluster**** that this Club was 

Liam Manning better start getting things together I’d guess then ?

9 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Haha! So anyone who didn't want Pearson long term is now a Manning worshipper!!! I think he's done some good as most have at some point but I couldnt give a shite whether he's the manager or not just like Pearson- it's about results and where we are at the end of the season. I'll support him until he's proved beyond any doubt that he is not up for the role.

 

Yes , about 9 months , or 5 months or so with the players , and with absolutely Zero context

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Blimey, a few of you belting out Cyndi’s Lauper’s “true colours” on this thread.  None of this thinly veiled lie of “I quite liked Nige…” I’ve seen on other threads!!!

Let it all out.

The ‘I actually liked Nige’  at the start of numerous posts , and in false claims (repeated) by certain posters , are one of the most transparent , false , and hilarious phrases used on here 

Some of our born and ‘bread’  ‘super fans’ are certainly pure ‘comedy gold’  

Wonder if they’d be laughing so much if we’d fallen into L1 again 

Royle and Agostino (Cup game ?) are two others 

3 minutes ago, Super said:

Didn't Carl Shutt score 4 in a game once

Yes

Fulham rings a bell

Ha ha

Get in lad , good finish

Him alongside Tommy (The real Tommy) would be pretty tasty !

1 minute ago, Lrrr said:

He certainly wasn't doing it in U21's games when he was given the chance to impress

Frankly he needed those seasons in L1 to improve himself, only thing we could have said was for us to loan him out instead of sell. 

You probably had a far longer view Lrrr but I saw him in U21 ganevatbthe Gate after he arrived and he showed everything he is now in terms of being a livewire , ability to beat a man , quick feet , and busy busy busy - he probably worked harder than I’ve ever seen for a player in U21 games

The only thing absent in that game was his finishing

Ge certainly has improved but at the time he looked as if he could have a real X factor once he broke into regular starts 

Shame

18 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

 If Nige was still manager and we had just gone 2 wins in 10, 9 points from 10 then he would be under the exact same pressure too. 

Absolutely

3 minutes ago, beaverface said:

Over the years, Tinnion has been vociferous in us using academy kids and telling managers to do so.

Now that Manning has been appointed by him, and Tinnion's head is on the block with regards to the new manager and new signings, I wonder if he'll be quite so keen for all the academy players to play now? I'm certainly not seeing it at the moment as it appears we're looking to new signings rather than bringing anyone through.

Good , and interesting point that

One to keep an eye on 

5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Harsh , but not a million miles from what I think could be part of the problem/

That is the key word and one that points out a major problem with continuity with the old & new coach.

Pearson was big on the players taking responsibility on the pitch, they are out there, they have to make choices and come up with solutions We had seen improvement , all be it slow , and I would like to have seen where we would have been with the players getting fit. That's over and we were given a new coach to take us onward.
Except he is the opposite in how we go out , now this problem can be all be put on the people in charge . LM is detail lead, he sets patterns and wants them to follow instruction. This means when things go wrong you can be found wanting , needing the next instruction.

I think we need to find some middle ground, don't over coach . I feel like we've been here before , under LJ . 
 

Really Excellent post -

Not specifically regarding LM

There is always a danger for any process coach that he coaches all decision making ability and footballing in pitch  ‘instinct’ out of players or , severely diminishes them - something that most players wouldn’t be over wild with 

That balance is , as you highlight very important 

27 minutes ago, 1team said:

I think the most concerning thing is that pre Manning we had one of the meanest defensive units in the division. The last 2 games it has looked all over the place, which if we are going to get drawn towards the teams scrapping for survival is worrying.

I did think it slightly strange that in talking about Sat post match he highlighted their first goal and how easy they’d played thro us with two passes

He said they had largely been working on the defensive base , and not only did I Not , personally think it needed masses of work or change , but that a large part of the work is not particularly showing as it largely didn’t need to be 

We weren’t a car crash defensively then and we aren’t now 

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

It’s not been great, but I find it slightly insane if there are people who genuinely do want him sacked right now. 

Totally agree

I think most are thinking where are we / what’s it looking like as we step forward , and where are our potential exit points and options if things started to look really concerning 

‘Really concerning’ of course is absolutely subjective

I can also see people’s thoughts and concerns about not sliding into next season , and how much you back him £ and number of changes in the summer.

It is a tricky one but ultimately if you still have any confidence in your recruitment , plan , and appointment you have to stick and back him , 

Unkess , of course , and you are professional and ruthless enough to have seen with your close up view that it’s not what you thought and doesn’t look like being.

JL via BT should with their close constant view , be constantly watching , listening and assessing LM every day and week on a rolling and growing basis.

As I’ve alluded to elsewhere BT is actually the man in the spotlight , that’s his job , to execute professionally , well , fairly and if need be ruthlessly

He’s the one around LM , staff, players , everyday , watching sessions , listening at minimum , to pre match preps and briefs , gauging the response from and mood of players etc etc

Over to you Brian

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

It’s definitely an argument as the statement below is arguing (by definition) that LM may have been told something different:

“Just because JL and BT fed us fans a load of tripe, doesn't mean they said the same to LM”.

But away from semantics here, I think you’re definitely on the page that they were dishonest with the fanbase - and that is I think pretty much universally accepted. Where I think your point more is lies in how wise it was (if they did do so) for BT/JL to give different expectations to LM then they articulated externally. And let’s be frank, every football club does that - they all say “we’re going for it this season” when they know 14th might be a success. The difference as I think again we all accept here is that the external expectations were used as rationale for a sacking, and therefore Liam became a bit of a hostage to them.

Daft, because if Tinnion and Lansdown did think at all and thought it was ok to give that mixed message because of the “everyone does it” point, they didn’t consider the actual situation - which again speaks to their competence 

3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I have absolutely no idea what this guy does here. I can only assume he sounds his days at LA golf club. 

Danny Wilson was let go because of a difference of opinion about us employing a psychologist and here's Manning employing analysts that seemingly have very little impact. 

I would say he’s actually very , crucially important to LM , Gull

Liams very much a prep man and to do significant analysis for upcoming opponents , prepare clips for LM , players etc  is I would think a fair bit of work

Remenber too that Krause then goes out on the grass and has a fair part in match prep , walk thros in game plan etc 

I can see the thought / sense and potential benefits in that

Any debate about preparation , potential ‘over preparation’ , game plans , etc etc is maybe left for another day