REDOXO

4 hours ago, Wiltshire robin said:

This one? 

Have City bought their ground back?!

City have a long and storied history of shirkers, drinkers, womanizers, smokers and general ‘footballers’

Pearson referred to it months ago regarding opposing players wanting to come here to play as we were generally thought of as a soft touch. 

You will never convince me that over the years we have not had many many players who have come here as a retirement option or in one or two cases a mid career break.  
 

The fact we are back here again is completely unsurprising in view of the dross signed by certain people who shall remain nameless, as it appears to upset some. We are having a wholesale clear out of players that begun with those out of contract, many of whom had nothing to do because LJ, OH dear I said it, bought and bought players simultaneously spunking the clubs money, no not Lansdowns the clubs.

The club is now being rebuilt around our own academy and young options from the lower leagues. These are just realities  

My only comments would be, we looked better with Semenyo on the pitch and if you are going with him then I would play Wells. 
 

We almost had to play Massengo who is weak, no matter what anyone says, with Bakinson, who is improving, but what a terrible midfield that is! 
 

We are stuffed in the middle of a mini league until players gain more experience, a few come back or we bring a couple  in. However bringing in players is a function of transfer business out! Our saleable assets are slim pickings  

That interview was tap drawer. NP looked better and was not warring with the press

It helped that there were some good reasonable questions, but also that interviewers knew when to stop pressing or made a joke about it as did NP. 

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Okay, so that was a goals view from the FBRef website where I scrape the data into Tableau….so I can’t drill down to starts v subs.

But, I do create my own data of what I call “points won / lost” whilst on the pitch….where I track how the “result” changes between W, D & L.  All starters start with a draw, as the game starts 0-0.  If we are leading when a player leaves the pitch, then they get +2, if we are losing they get -1, etc.  Today Massengo would get -2, as we went from a winning (W) position to a drawing (D) position, e,g. From 3 pts to 1 pt.

Its not an exact science, but it’s something I’m keen to develop to see whether it does have some correlation or not.

Heres Massengo (before today), using my data:

Your gut feel is looking good.  One might also argue he’s more effective in a more advanced or wide midfield role…which funnily enough is where he played in France, either on the side (predominately) or tip (less so) of a diamond.  He is not a DM (imho).

 

Thanks Dave. So there is statistical support for my ‘gut’ Good to know. 
 

Yes I’m sure there are arguments to be made on position etc and how he is played off the bench, however that’s how I keep seeing it. We are a team waiting to concede if he comes off the bench. 
 

Thanks for all the effort you put in!

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Before today, here’s a pic of goals scored / conceded whilst on the pitch.

It’s sorted on Goals Against per 90…the second red column.  O’Dowda out on his own!!

The players who’ve played more games lately definitely coming out on top (top is bad).

As you’ll see from the +/- column, only Semenyo and Scott are in credit!

Bless you. I knew you wouldn’t resist answering with a spreadsheet. Thanks!

So fourth worst while on the pitch in total. What’s his rate goals four and against when subbed on compared to all minutes, which was the comment.
 

To me anecdotally we just start looking jittery and look more likely to concede and to me at least pretty much always do. Winning positions lost after second half substitutions might be an interesting stat. 

Bakinson played well today. A couple of wrong decisions but all in all not bad! 
 

Im in a minority here. But I’m not a fan is Massengo. I just feel when ever he is added in it’s a matter of time before we conceded. I would suspect statistics might support that view. 
 

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I think we run more than we need to, because we are poor positionally. Go back to LJ’s halcyon late autumn / early winter in 17/18 - busy bees.  We laughed but they swarmed around in what they made a condensed part of the pitch, so they didn’t need to make lung-busting 30-40 yard runs.

It is something that can be corrected by personnel changes, and improved tactics and / or tactical awareness.

We run more than we need because we don’t have the ball and when we do we can’t keep it. 
 

Our passing is poor in general our movement is iffy leading to as you say being poor positionally. 

4 hours ago, CiderJar said:

What the chuff has any of this got to do with Bristol chuffing Rovers?

The mods dumped a thread initiated by @lukebcfc1989 in this thread (that doesn’t really belong here). The rest you can read. I agree with you since my initial response the subject is not Bristol chuffing Rovers. I guess that is what can happen if you combine vaguely related threads. Hope that helps!

1 hour ago, Rich said:

Without meaning to upset you, you have made it seem as if we've been "Lurching" between all four divisions of the football league, while highlighting a small time spent in the top tier of English football. This seems to be a gross misrepresentation of reality. We have actually spent the majority of our time in the top two divisions, more so than the bottom two divisions, with only two seasons spent at the lowest level, hardly lurching between the divisions. This site is excellent for information. England historical attendance and performance (european-football-statistics.co.uk)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_City_F.C.
 

in my life time we have been in all four divisions most of it between the second and third division (when did we actually get a fourth division as opposed to division three south) with a foray into divvy four sometime after they stopped regionalizing the bottom.  But we will agree to disagree on interpretations of years of failure. 

Edit wiki of Third Division South the forerunner of the fourth division or the southern section of the bottom division. If that helps. We were in the regionalised bottom division of English football  quite a bit in the years until it was combined nationally. 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_League_Third_Division_South

1 hour ago, Rich said:

I don't understand why you've omitted a part of our total history and come up with a figure of 111 years, it seems a strange figure to choose. Surely you must include the whole history, if you're going to mention facts about any of it.

It’s the time between the first time we got relegated from the top flight to now. It is that simple. In that period we were in the top flight once. 

Thus as pointed out in the original post we have been pretty dreadful under multiple regimes/boards/owners the Lansdown years have been pretty standard stuff, only with nicer facilities. (With the exception of the final years of Harry Dolman and the four seasons after his death we were also rans in random lower divisions).
 

To summarize In the time between now and the first relegation we have been in the top flight once. For a four year period. The rest is in the original post. 
 

personally of those 111 years I’ve been around for 60. Thus there is insight. :laugh:!
 

54 minutes ago, 22A said:

 

If you are going to correct a statement in bold in line at least do us all the courtesy of being right. Bristol City have been in the top division twice in their history…..However My comment was in the last 111 years we have spent four years in the top flight. Which is completely accurate! 

54 minutes ago, 22A said:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_City_F.C.

3 minutes ago, lukebcfc1989 said:

“

When I first spoke to Wael about the job, it was because you knew Bristol was an untapped resource. It’s a gold mine that no-one has tapped fully.

Bristol City have had a go with Lansdown and they’ve invested in their infrastructure, but you’ve never had a European Cup tie played in a city that’s as big as Liverpool. You’ve never had a Premier League game played here and I’m looking at that and going ‘How?’

With the passionate sports fans that are in the city, with the resources that are in the city, how has that not happened?”

I wonder how many more potential owners or managers we have outside of the city as I have always assumed we are seen as a second class football City with a small Football team which we really are not. 
 

Is calling for Lansdowns head that far fetch of an idea? Has he really “saved us” as we are led to believe or has he underhandedly been hindering us for years for reasons we can’t or are unwilling to comprehend. One things for sure Barton is 100 % correct with the above statement.

Its criminal how we have not had top flight football in this City and ambition has to change. Mike Ashley did not ruin Newcastle but the fan base certainly were not happy Are we comparible to their situation???

I think it is a close case to ours and more similar than we care to consider.

 

I note your commentary has been dumped in the Rovers thread. I am unsure that was the right thing, but hey ho I guess someone has the power. 
 

In answer. BRFC have never been in the top flight of English football and have always been mediocre. Playing at crap grounds with dreadful facilities completely taking the piss out of the blue few that remain loyal. The bloke Wael has come in and continued that tradition 

BCFC in the past 111years have spent 4(Four) years in the top flight. The constant identification of the bloke who has massively changed everything about the club as being a failure is not only wrong but takes no account of what came before. With the exception of Harry this club has lurched between divvy 2 3 & 4 while going close to extinction a situation that took years to get over and many on here think we never did. 
 

Mr Lansdown has made errors, however many of them were supported by fans until it was obvious tan error was made. However the bringing in of LJ followed by Holden endorsed by Ashton SL can take complete ownership of.  AND TO FAIR HE DOES! 
 

We are a football back water where players don’t want to come by and large. This is why the only team that made the top flight was overwhelmingly home grown, which is what Pearson is trying to achieve now. 
 

Yes I’m a s pissed off as the next girl about our form and constant failure. My bloody family have lived and died through it. But until we are no longer seen as the City that Barton alludes we will have to rely on bring another crop of kids through. 

Without reading pages and pages.  This is football forum stuff? Someone let me know if the previous pages are appropriate for this section. 

52 minutes ago, Clevedon Red said:

Win lose or draw I can’t remember the last time I read a match report on the OS.

Watching that shite every bloody game is soul sucking enough, reading about it on the official propaganda site would send me to the edge. 

Match reports every week should read, we were crap and found a way to lose it despite being crap with seconds left!.....There we are that's covered it!

1 hour ago, Hxj said:

Ipswich went for £40 million including all the debt and a stadium.

I wonder what SL would accept for a Championship club?

The link above reckoned 30m but what's 10m between friends. The American buyer surely knows he is overpaying at the numbers discussed just to clear the debt of the FC. If he wants a football club there are quite a few that offer better value and a stadium. 

Average attendance this season is about 19500, lord knows what it will be in L1.  

City are a different kettle of fish. Its not just Bristol City FC, its Bristol Sport (Rugby/Basketball etc etc). Yes the stadium is detached but working on the notion that Derby is 70m to tie up the club. Bristol Sport with a top Rugby club and a Prem ready stadium has a value of 210m

13 minutes ago, Hxj said:

You would engineer the financing to include the stadium.

Ok. Not completely sure what that means. Over and above the 100m or some how purchase the stadium separately? If there is a willing seller?

I guess there is an existing lease agreement. Something like the gas had at the dog track? That ended well :laugh:!

I just took a quick gander at League One. Similar clubs with history to Derby include Bolton, Sunderland, Portsmouth obviously Ipswich, Sheffield Wednesday etc. I’m not sure most Derby fans know what a mess they are in. 
 

I just took a look at the delusional web page that’s DCFC fans forum blaming Gibson the EFL and pretty much anyone! FGS! 

6 minutes ago, Hxj said:

We will get the real figures shortly.

My back of envelope numbers are:

MSD £20 million

Bank £3 million

HMRC £25 million

Football Creditors £20 million

Mel Morris Nil

Others £5 million

So £70-£75 million.

If HMRC follow their published practice all will need to be paid in full to avoid a liquidation.

So an investment of around £100 million is required to pay the debts and run the club through to the end of the 2022/23 season.

without ownership of the stadium?

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

The story was that a new owner would need to spend £50-60m just to cover the debts, but I’ve no idea how that works, or what happens to ground etc.  I honestly don’t think liquidation is out of the question.

I agree. Ipswich including taking over the debt was according to the Athletic around about what HMRC debts is at Derby County. The two do make a good comparison. One league championship a little European history etc.
 

https://theathletic.com/news/ipswich-town-takeover-latest-completed/dRQ5BYPaRkWB/

44 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Audit was done by a company owned by a lifelong Derby fan!  Of course that doesn’t mean anything.

So @Mr Popodopolous @Hxj and Dave. Now it seems the EFL have ruled on the points deduction and I’m sure put in place guidelines for future conduct, how much do they actually owe?

HMRC 26m

Arsenal 8

Suppliers?

creditors?

outstanding loans? ETC ETC ETC. 

From what I can tell from here is HMRC policy is not to accept partial payment and will be treated as the front of the queue, so any sale negotiations are basically around a valueless entity and the ability of the new owner to pay debt in full to some and pennies on the pound to others? 
 

any projections? And in view of the accounts where does the stadium fit in now. In theory the club and stadium are not connected so no fixed asset exists as collateral to a prospective buyer! 

1 hour ago, Hxj said:

Several!

Firstly it depends upon what sort of review was done.  If all the boxes are completed correctly sometimes that suffices, other times the information provided by the director's is reviewed, or other backing paperwork.  With that in mind I wouldn't assume that that means anything more than the paperwork backs the audit.  This was a comment by the DC, paragraph 257.

However para 25, in particularly the last sentence, of the LAP decision says some interesting things when talking about the description in the accounts:

Paragraph 26 goes on to describe how the club and the auditor misled the EFL at a meeting in May 2019 and that it was not until June 2020, just before the hearing that the real methodolgy used was disclosed.

So the audit file backed the disclosures in the accounts and therefore both referred to a process that did not actually take place.  But as the paperwork is internally consistent it is highly likely to have passed an ICAEW review.

 

What firm or what individuals were doing the accounting for Derby?? 
 

Reputations in tatters and Mel could not care less!! 

I like Massengo good feet and moves around and will sometimes provide a key pass or get in the way
 

However he won’t add a goal or an assist and if we are in a battle to grind out points he can get lost and lose his man. 
 

We are in need of a hero right now someone who will change our current trajectory,HNM is not that guy unless something changes. Trouble is who is? 
 

I feel for this boy. He’s scrutinized in a team that for want of a better way to put it is awful. If we can get James and Williams fit then you’ll see the best of HNM otherwise he’ll be the show pony in a side of also rans!

24 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Sure, though I felt all along that the uncertainty made it harder to sell. The administrators weren't doing the club any favours by dragging it out.

Much depends on whether there really are 3 credible parties of course and what can be agreed with creditors but I'd be surprised if this ends in liquidation now.

I agree. I did say as much previously too. The fact that the administrators ‘reluctantly’ accept the nine points says to me they tried but always knew (as did anyone outside of Derbyshire) it was a huge Hail Mary. 
 

Credible buyer who knows. The club is almost valueless the ground has value but isn’t the clubs ‘probably ‘ and 25m minimum debt to The taxapeyers before anyone else. 
 

I think zipswich cost about 20m, please someone go ahead and correct me, thus I’m not so sure who would buy it unless it’s someone who doesn’t care about the cost. 

Mel Morris is a dreadful little man. However many Derby supporters appear to still believe he is some kind demigod and that the whole thing is an EFL vendetta against poor old us!
 

My personal hope is they end up way lower than league one, just for the delusional nutBagery that emanates from and throughout that bloody club 

25 minutes ago, HomerRed said:

He had a distinctive voice and spoke with a lot of authority. 

The iconic match not mentioned by the BBC here was his coverage of City's 1-0 win at Old Trafford in the old Second Division around 1974. 

I seem to remember him thanking Alan Dicks for daylight robbery! 

RIP Gerald. 

I will never forget his post match assessment that we had time wasted and spoiled the entire match and got the benefit from it in injury time. :laugh:!

9 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

To be fair thats every pro footballer of the late 70s!

It was 74 And They were on the same team that day!!