REDOXO

At HT I said to Mrs Oxo, we are one nil up and playing ten men. ONLY WE COULD MESS THIS UP!

And it came to pass! I tweeted Twentyman 'I feel sick' at the final whistle, then I tweeeted it to Jon Lansdown...

This season has been one kick in the guts after another. Personally I think Pearson has taken on Ashton, Holden's LJs SLs and JL's poison chalice and he knew it. Our injuries are mounting up again, we are putting our hopes in players across the club who seem helpless and hapless who can not run, shoot, pass, tackle or have any basic technical ability!

After that and the meaningless post match presser I'm glad I have two weeks off!

1 hour ago, WessexPest said:

Is this what we’ve been reduced to, speculating whether the obnoxious Colin W***er and his prehistoric tactics can pull us out of the quicksand?!?

This club truly is on life support.

Beep Beep Beep Beep Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

1 hour ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

But everyone loves Tanner because he made a few block tackles.

We should never have expected him to be able to step up to this level so soon.

Likewise Vyner has never looked confident and I’ve no idea where the player who wore JD’s shirt last season has gone?

But against all this, the midfield offer no cover - inc HNM who has been part of this mess for too long as well.

YES, he has! The constant bigging up of this boy gets right up my nose. If he is anywhere near the team from the start or as a sub we will concede goals. He looks good with some aspects of his play but he is part of the problem not the solution....I know this is an unpopular view and I'm not picking on him anymore than the other crap we have in there but he is a youngster playing in a crap midfield that will provide little in a battle....

3 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I think the problem is that we don't have a board...we have an 'owner'.

And where has he been this season? Deafening silence.

The rumour is he’s close to a deal. Which if true would explain the silence. 

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don't necessarily disagree with any of the points you've made, but I do find threads like this speaking on everyone's behalf a bit jarring..

Not sure that’s fair. I referred to the aggressive thread that already exists which in of itself shows I’m not speaking on behalf of everyone. I guess you (plural) read into things what you will and judging by the likes etc I am obviously expressing thoughts agreed by some/ many!

4 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said:

I agree with most of what the OP said, but I'm a bit more than disappointed. We are simply not worth watching and haven't been for 3 / 4 years now. It's a monotonous chore. Drive to match, sit down, watch terrible performance, lose match, drive home thinking what on earth was that/why did I bother. Week in week out the same. If you haven't been watching afar, it really is that bad Steve.

Yeah. I’m a bit more than disappointed too. But i was trying to take the right tone. The lunatics can shout into their keyboards the rest of us like yourself need to keep our heads.
 

But to be clear we are awful. :laugh:! 

14 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Yes, mate. Link below:

www.robboredisacock.com

Uncertainty due to pandemic, apparently... 

Mate your link doesn’t work!?

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Simon - that’s the point….I don’t think you could move on Palmer or COD.

What a mess, anyone talking about rebuilds and transfer windows needs to read that spreadsheet. God Pearson has inherited/taken on a problem. The wages being pumped out on that lot must be obscene. 

13 hours ago, Dynamite Red said:

We are a mess, players like Wells, Palmer, Kalas, DaSilva who are up there as our highest wage earners and not pulling their weight for their wages. Honestly apart from maybe Kalas I would happily see them all go. A waste of money. 

We have players who are clearly past there best, Martin, Simpson and King. 

Supplement them with promising but currently league 1 standard players such as Bakinson, Pring, Semenyo, Scott, Tanner, Atkinson. 

Now add no creativity or dynamic forwards and wingers and you can see we badly need an injection of quality. Can't expect to release a dozen first players in the summer and it have no impact. Utterly wasted our wages on overpaid shite. 

Yes I wrote something similar recently. 
 

@Davefevs you know this stuff who is OOC at the end of the season?
 

Atkinson and Tanner are here for a while as is Weimann and Baker has 18 months. However the wages of those   Mentioned in your post must be massive. Movement is clear and This will be a part of bringing the costs down toward a break even level. 
 

Pearson took on the poison chalice, that has one thing going for it, it’s youth policy. The thought of any midfield with HNM in it when either defending our goal or getting a late one is vital fills me with trepidation, this goes for Bakinson too. Vyner was shown up by just the merest nudge by Deeney yesterday and My mum has more pace than Martin. 
 

Buckle up City fans. We are in trouble all over. 

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm inclined to agree with this- however you can never tell with Independent Panels, the Sheffield Wednesday deduction being halved is/was a shocker.

Suffice to say that view is gaining traction on DCFCFans, the one I posted. They still think they are victims IMO, it's beyond loyalty and denial, the RamsTrust q's and observations to the EFL are a perfect example but the mindset it is hard to fathom.

Just read these and make your own minds up!

https://ramstrust.org.uk/wp/ramstrust-meeting-with-the-efl/

https://ramstrust.org.uk/wp/efl-response-to-ramstrust/

https://ramstrust.org.uk/wp/ramstrust-efl-questions/

@Hxj @Davefevs @REDOXO

Still can't fathom some of them and the seeming blaming EFL narrative- especially from a group who called for enhanced regulations in 2011/2012 time.

Well that is strange, cannot find the stuff from the past now...

Yes I nipped out to The Rams Trust site....Nearly all of the questions come at it like they are in some kind of battle with an idiot organization that hates them for no apparent reason....Brushing over millions of unpaid taxes, failure to submit accounts with multiple rule breaches a ground that doesn't belong to the club anymore and being in administration....WOW! Donald Trump should run for MP for Derbyshire with that level of Cognitive Dissonance.  

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Got you….hence probably why Mel didn’t want to start / carry on paying wages AND now Tax too.  If so, what a complete anchor with a capital W.

I added to the previous post as Hxj's view is different and he knows loads more than me.

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Are you sure the taxes have been paid?  Not sure how they’ve racked up such an HMRC debt otherwise?  Or are you saying not paying HMRC should trigger minus three points?  If so, surely they’ve failed that already.  I guess there’s a subtle different between paying a players wages and paying the players taxes?

Exactly, with your last sentence.... I'm just saying that right now the players have to be paid. Paying the players income tax must be part of the players wages, as such HMRC must be currently being paid on current wages. The 25m is for previously unpaid... 

HOWEVER if HMRC is not being paid currently then yes that should trigger the deduction as its the players taxes as such their money........Nevertheless, @Hxjwho has infinitely more knowledge says that it does not mean that and the Inland Revenue may not be being paid....WOW. What a mess....  

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Will look at the thread in detail later but you were banned too eh @REDOXO

Ha well at you reached that stage, I was banned before I even joined and @Hxj before even that stage was.

Their take on the section 3 of the Owners and Directors Test would be interesting but wonder if they're even allowed to discuss. Doesn't fit the weird combination of upbeat and victimhood a lot of their fans seem to have, lot of rubbish about an EFL vendetta on varied platforms.

4 minutes ago, Hxj said:

The Administrators will have a good handle on the numbers by now.  They need to be published shortly at which point everyone will know what the balance sheet will look lke.

 

Yes the appeal is due to be heard next week.  The issue I think is not on whether 'Covid' qualifies, but more was it the sole reason for the Administration.  Given the pre-existing HMRC debt, there was a winding up order in January 2020, and the restarting of winding up orders by HMRC in October 2021, plus the apparent lack of funding from Morris in the intervening period, I have serious doubts that any appeal will succeed.

 

Allegedly two or three.  I have my doubts about Chris Krichner, something doesn't feel right about his public wealth and the difference with the suggested wealth available.

 

Derby have the following:

An actual 12 points penalty for Administration - under appeal

An agreed 3 points penalty for failure to pay football wages - suspended until 30 June 2022 - activated if there is another non-payment.

A points penalty for EFL FFP failings, Morris says 4 points - I suspect significantly higher.  Currently under negotiation as to whether or not an agreed sanction can be reached.

 

Thanks Lads. Yep I was a member of their board for three years (well before this hit the fan) for a number of reasons, but got kicked off! 

ok here we go!

Ok so the administrator will be publishing figures and unless there is something strange going on they must be what is being handed to the interested party’s. Who obviously will be doing their due diligence internally prior to a Letter of Intent. Do we know if they have received a LoI?

Yes the appeal always looked a Hail Mary to add some value, however it was sliced. 
 

Yes interested party’s is a very loose term. I’m interested in lots of things! I suppose it goes back to my previous comment about an LoI. Also what is in the minds of the purchaser. Some might like to rebuild a club and not bother with all of the current charade with appeals or over paid players and huge debt to HM GOVT. The idea of appeals could be completely flawed, but the administrator gets paid either way. 
 

Ok so if I’m understanding correctly Derby start next season minus three if wages are not paid to players. I guess the income taxes are a part of that, so we can all assume HM REVENUE are getting paid players taxes and NI contributions. 
 

we are unclear as to FFP Penalty up to this point as it’s only Morris that has mentioned the number. The EFL are negotiating further with administrators, however there is nothing more sophisticated than leverage, so I would suggest the EFL could end them at any time and are only in them to try and give the administrators a fighting chance of them selling the club (Derby fans take note) 

So to be clear @Hxjthe missing three years accounts to the EFL is this another points deduction issue, or does this form part of the administrators negotiations?

Thanks all this helps and anyone can pop in to this thread and know where we are at from here. 

1 minute ago, chinapig said:

Don't get me started on a judicial system where judges are appointed to the Supreme Court on political grounds or I'll go way off topic!

We will stop shortly. But oh effing yes. A judge elected on political grounds is in no way ever going to give you skewed decisions! There is a 3/6 majority of Trumpian **** wits in a co equal branch of government. Its just another example of the fallibility of a hacked constitution that politicians judges and the media project infallibility on, on a daily basis.
 

Meanwhile we gonna win today?

23 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Yes, sometimes a tribunal will allow an appeal to go ahead on what they regard as natural justice grounds. For example where an individual employee is taking on a multinational company. This amounts to little more than giving them their day in court even if they have little hope of success.

Not something that applies to Derby though, plucky little victims that they are.

I mainly live in the USA, the concept of natural justice is a completely different animal here. As you my know. However what will happen is branches of local, national and corporate government will hear appeals on the basis of someone at a higher level does not ‘like personally’ the earlier decision and not on the fallibility of an earlier ruling but not hear them when the shoe is on the other foot. 
 

The concept of The Supreme Court here gives the Prolls  the idea you can keep appealing decisions because you don’t like the earlier decision all the way up as The SC is rarely seen to say we can’t hear that as the decision was not wrong and their is no new evidence. 
 

However Plucky little Derby bless them could use a couple of those guys at the EFL justifying themselves.

16 hours ago, Redpool said:

Kasey is done in my view. Had so many chances and hasn’t taken them. Another one to get off the wage bill.

Unfortunately he has been awful since Afobi got injured. He reminds me of a dreadlocked Tony Dinning that’s blocking the path of one of our kids, who would be equally useful as a bench sitter. For the love of god I just got a vision of Engval. LJ did buy some shite. 

1 hour ago, Jerseybean said:

Good day fellow Reds.

A third of the season gone and another trip up the M5 with Birmingham City away tonight being the first of two games this week in the Midlands, there is just 22 miles between St Andrew’s and Coventry’s ground. Let’s hope we perform much better than our last visit to the West Midlands.

Here’s what others have said about their visit to St Andrew’s: https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g186402-d261534-Reviews-Birmingham_City_Football_Club-Birmingham_West_Midlands_England.html

Almost all of the pubs around St. Andrew’s are strictly home fans only. The exception in the past has been The Cricketers’ Arms (48 Little Green Lane, Birmingham, B9 5AX), which is happy to welcome a mixture of home and away supporters. It is quite a small pub but there is ample outside seating, I know it’s November!.

If you are walking to the ground, there a couple of recommended stopping off points. 

* The Anchor Digbeth (308 Bradford Street, Birmingham B5 6ET) is a renowned real ale venue at the back of Birmingham Coach Station

* The Old Crown (188 High Street, Birmingham, B12 0LD) is situated in Birmingham’s oldest building and has historically welcomed visiting fans

Your best options in the city centre are likely to be:

*The Old  Contemptibles (176 Edmund Street within a short stroll of Corporation Street, Colemore Row and New Street) https://www.nicholsonspubs.co.uk/restaurants/eastandwestmidlands/theoldcontemptiblesedmundstreetbirmingham 

* The Wellington (37 Bennetts Hill, Birmingham B2 5SN)

* The Briar Rose (25 Bennetts Hill, Birmingham B2 5RE) – which often asks for away colours to be covered up nowadays

* The Sun On The Hill (23 Bennetts Hill, Birmingham B2 5QP)

* The Shakespeare Inn (Summer Row, Birmingham, B3 1JJ), right next to New Street station.

The metropolitan area of Birmingham is the second most populated city in England. The club was formed in 1875 as Small Heath Alliance, it was renamed Small Heath in 1888, Birmingham in 1905, and Birmingham City in 1943. Since 2011, they have competed in the Championship. St Andrew’s has been their home ground since 1906. The club's nickname is Blues and their fans are known as Bluenoses.

They have something of a revolving-door in terms of managers! In July 2007, Hong Kong-based businessman Carson Yeung became the biggest single shareholder. Uncertain as to his future Steve Bruce left in mid-season. His successor, Scotland national team manager, Alex McLeish, was unable to stave off relegation, but achieved promotion back to the Premier League at the first attempt.

In 2011, they combined a second League Cup defeating favourites Arsenal 2–1 and secured qualification for the Europa League with relegation back to the second tier, after which McLeish resigned to join Aston Villa.

They narrowly failed to reach the knockout rounds of the Europa League and the play-off final. With the club in financial turmoil and under a transfer embargo, manager Chris Houghton left. Under Lee Clark, Birmingham twice retained their divisional status, albeit through a 93rd-minute goal in the last match of 2013–14 season to avoid relegation on goal difference but their continued poor form saw him dismissed in October 2014. Gary Rowett led them to two tenth-place finishes before being controversially dismissed by new owners Trillion Trophy Asia in favour of Gianfranco Zola.

Two wins from 24 matches under Zola left Birmingham needing two wins from the last three games to stay up, which they achieved under the managership of Harry Redknapp who lasted another month, he was replaced by his former assistant Steve Cotterill who lasted five months, he was succeeded by Garry Monk.

Despite budgetary restrictions and a nine-point deduction for breaches of the League's Profitability and Sustainability (P&S) rules, the team finished 17th in 2018–19; however, Monk was sacked in June after conflict with the board. He was succeeded by his assistant, Pep Clotet, initially as caretaker. In the 2019-20 season they once again avoided relegation despite a 14-match winless run at the end of the season and the threat of a further points deduction.

Next out the door was  Aitor Karanka who was replaced in March this year by former Birmingham player Lee Bowyer, who is on a two and half year contract, what are the odds of him staying that long!?

Academy product Jude Bellingham was sold to Borussia Dortmund in the summer for a club-record deal reported to be worth up to £30 million.

This season they have exactly the same record as us won 5, drawn 4 and lost 6 and are currently in 14th spot, last time out they won 2-0 away at Boro.

Based on the last six games we are 20th in the form guide LWLLLW, while they are 16th LLLDWW.

Brum banter

* The FA cup was made in Birmingham.

* They were actually formed by a group of cricketers in the Bordesley Green area of Birmingham, back in 1875. The lads were looking to play competitive football and just two years later, the club moved into its first ground, Muntz Street. The rent was £5-a-year!

* Birmingham City were the first side to sell a player for £1million.  The man in question being Trevor Francis, who is arguably one of the best players in the club’s long history. He scored 133 goals in 328 appearances but in 1970, he moved to Nottingham Forest for £1million.

* In February 2011 the Blues lifted their first major silverware for over 55 years when the overcame Arsenal in the League Cup final. Goals from Nikola Zigic and Obafemi Martins gave Birmingham a place in the modern-day history books but it was a season that ended in disappointment. They were relegated on the last day of the season following a 2-1 defeat at White Hart Lane which meant in two seasons, Birmingham had won major silverware, been relegated, competed in the Europa League and lost a two-legged play-off semi final the season later. Pretty hectic stuff!

* Iconic brands Birds Custard, Cadbury Chocolate, Bournville Drinking Chocolate, HP Source and Typhoo Tea all started in Birmingham.

* Famous fans include: Jasper Carrot - Comedian, Colin Buchanan - Dalziel and Pascoe star, Roy Wood - Xmas-loving frontman of Wizzard, David Harewood - Actor (Homeland), Mike Skinner - Singer from The Streets and Jeff Lynne - ELO legend.

Our head-to-head record isn’t very good we have lost 34, won 18 and drawn 17. Last season we beat them in March 0-3 at their place and they won in December 0-1 at the Gate. It was a home defeat against them which sealed our relegation to League 1 at the end of the 12/13 season: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/22075570

They have doubts about Tahith Chong, Kristian Pedersen and Maxime Colin for tonight.

Can I remind everyone about Movember and the opportunity it presents to do your bit to promote men’s health, whatever you grow thank you: https://uk.movember.com

To the traveling faithful have a great night, cheer the boys on - be loud and proud - and stay safe.

Enter @BigTone  

On 29/10/2021 at 04:25, Davefevs said:

How many times do we hear “so and so” is interested, or heading up a consortium and it goes nowhere?  Far too often.  Sometimes I’m sure it’s just to get a peak at the books.

A peak at the books. Has anyone had one of those since 2017? :laugh:!

I do take your point, that an entity that is considered serious in any MnA will assess the financial data provided and reach a decision based upon book value AND strategic value in many cases.

The purchase of Derby County would be considered a strategic in most people’s view as clearly the current suitors in all cases are looking to own a football club in a certain division with a past and not trying to buy just the book value. Derby would not have the ability to be broken down and sold piecemeal unless the club would become defunct which pretty much leaves one reason to own them….Because you want to!

NOW as I have taken a few days off from this god forsaken place (the whole of OTIB not just this thread) what is the summarized state of play @Mr Popodopolous @Hxj Dave Fevs AND anyone else? 
 

oh and @Mr Popodopolousi was banned over there too. 
 

1 Does anyone outside the club including all prospective buyers the EFL HMIR etc know anymore about the real financial situation at the club now and over recent years?

2 Do we know for certain there is an appeal regarding a perceived Force Majeur and that Derby are claiming that Covid is responsible for its fall into administration? And what are their chances (personally I think that’s a Hail Mary unlesS the EFL have something in their rules that states this may be considered a factor) 
 

3 How many prospective purchasers are there?

4 Derby have a suspended points deduction as I understand it plus a further points deduction possible for not providing their accounts to the EFL where does that stand?
 

All answers and other summarized detail would be great as this thread is multi faceted and most will find it difficult to keep what appears to be one of the great fuckfests of football history straight without regular summaries. 
 

On 31/10/2021 at 15:29, chinapig said:

I'm no lawyer but I have in my time provided analytical services to some senior judges.

Obviously you have to allow a reasonable time for a club to draft it's application for leave but the process is still quicker.

In the case of tribunals for instance the majority of applications are refused as there are no grounds. You have to show that the original decision was wrong in law. It's not enough to just disagree with it.

A similar process could be applied to EFL decisions, though we are talking regulations and rules rather than law of course so it would be lighter touch.

I'll await Tracey Crouch's report before I give the EFL the benefit of my advice.

Exactly as you say. It is depressing that so many appeals are even heard by institutions on the basis we don’t agree with the decision and that most people think that disagreeing is grounds for appeal in of itself. Nevertheless I have seen decisions appealed with out grounds at City Councils and internal and external employment tribunals. 

1 minute ago, maxjak said:

Do  you feel just a little silly? 

Read my response. Clearly you are not keeping up!

28 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I’m not really very comfortable of people’s names put on a faceless forum by a faceless poster. 
 

Whatever your rationale for doing so, it is completely unnecessary. 

24 minutes ago, !james said:

They are copied and pasted from the Bristol Post article

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/inside-bristol-citys-recruitment-team-6030875

22 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

He's just cut and pasted from the Bristol Live (EP) article already linked in this thread.  Nothing not already out there...and no I've never heard of any of them either!

 

There in lay the problem. If you refer to a source and link to it then ok. But In this case the post was direct naming individuals. The excuse being as above it’s already out there. 
 

Im not completely sure what already out there means but in this case almost no one on this forum would know or care. However in this case these people have their names put up here in order to justify a cheap response to another poster. 
 

In case no one has noticed the atmosphere here and at the WBA Game was toxic and the naming of those guys here in that atmosphere in that context is inexcusable for no reason whatsoever but as a response to a two bit post, they are just employees of the club! 

Some need to ******* grow up! 

2 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Who's who

Sean Gilhespy leads the team and weekly recruitment meetings include Nigel Pearson and his coaching team, plus CEO Richard Gould and others such as chairman Jon Lansdown, who takes an interest, as well as other board members who will drop in from time to time.

The team behind the team:

• Dan Calcott - recruitment analyst
• Chester Perks - recruitment analyst
• Simon Cozens - recruitment analyst
• James Borrett - data analyst
• Rishickesh Ramesh - data analyst
• Fraser Franks - scout
• Allan Gemmell - scout
• Martin O'Connor - scout
• Several interns, studying the Championship to begin (two doing their Masters in Performance Analysis at Bristol City for 12 months)

I’m not really very comfortable of people’s names put on a faceless forum by a faceless poster. 
 

Whatever your rationale for doing so, it is completely unnecessary. 

17 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

20 odd years now we have had sl.

Look where we are.

A dogfight.

Imagine another 20 years of this

 

What have the Romans ever done for us?

New stands, New bars, new training facilities, New…..FFS I can not be bothered. 

34 minutes ago, marmite said:

If we do drop Martin, which I think we should, someone must tell Bentley not to just lump it up the middle.  We need to start bringing it out from the back and not play back passes which result in another long hopeful punt. We are so predictable and easy to read, no wonder teams know how to beat us.

We can’t pass that is evident by our possession stats and just watching them try and retain possession. I believe they call that empirical and anecdotal evidence. Bentley boots the ball because of this. Yes it comes back but if he knocks it to one of ours it will go long within four touch’s same net result but ensuring we do not lose the ball in our own final third!!