Monkeh Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 The reason people have attacked your posts are because they are wrong, simple. So it was just the police at fault and nothing else It was the police that physically crushed those who sadly died was it? I said they should have the majority of the blame but a number of things happened and they can not be blamed 100% how is that wrong please explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbcfc Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 I think the Hillsborough Families Support Group would probably disagree with you. I'm sure they would and I have said this was an awful event for the families. However the way city plays the victim card every time any single thing occurs. While on a completely different scale I will admit when Boris said something about Liverpool they all went mental, if that had been Bristol or Birmingham it would have been shrugged off. Thatcher had caused major issues all around Britain but Liverpool still blame her for everything that's wrong with Liverpool they always play the victim card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 So it was just the police at fault and nothing else It was the police that physically crushed those who sadly died was it? I said they should have the majority of the blame but a number of things happened and they can not be blamed 100% how is that wrong please explain Your making it up again,where have I said it was the police's fault??? As just stated on the tv,Hillsborough DID NOT even have a safety certificate for the ground. As you don't have a clue about what went on, do yourself a favour and do some homework. There's millions of pages on the Internet. Your treating this thread as some kind of Monkeh v the rest, it's not about you, it's about something very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderup Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 I saw an interview with the MP who has pushed for the records of that dreadful day to be published, and one thing he said confused me. I appreciate this is nothing to do with who or what was at fault but he said 'We aren't looking for blame but we are looking for accountability'. What's the difference as they appear to be the same thing to me? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Your making it up again,where have I said it was the police's fault??? As just stated on the tv,Hillsborough DID NOT even have a safety certificate for the ground. As you don't have a clue about what went on, do yourself a favour and do some homework. There's millions of pages on the Internet. Your treating this thread as some kind of Monkeh v the rest, it's not about you, it's about something very important. You are accusing me of making things up I have said and the eye witnesses agree that a large portain of the blame lays with the police and stewarding but a portain of the blame also has to be acknowledged by the liverpool fans So what exactly have I made up? Please explain Sbred pointed the bit about he ambulances which I got wrong out to me and I put my hands up I don't have the advantage of watching last nights show I am only going on what was previously reported and what I remember Hillsborough gets dragged up every year like some kind of cult by Liverpool fans and if you dare say anything that doesn't fit with their view of events they threaten and abuse you that is not made up it is fact and you can look on the millions of pages on the Internet to read about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Well the HFSG have been leading the issue, surprisingly enough, and have every right to 'play the victim card' as you so crassly put it. I think you're parroting what Boris Johnson said and which resulted in Michael Howard, that well known Liberal, sending him to Liverpool to apologise because he was talking absolute bollo*ks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 You are accusing me of making things up I have said and the eye witnesses agree that a large portain of the blame lays with the police and stewarding but a portain of the blame also has to be acknowledged by the liverpool fans So what exactly have I made up? Please explain Sbred pointed the bit about he ambulances which I got wrong out to me and I put my hands up I don't have the advantage of watching last nights show I am only going on what was previously reported and what I remember Hillsborough gets dragged up every year like some kind of cult by Liverpool fans and if you dare say anything that doesn't fit with their view of events they threaten and abuse you that is not made up it is fact and you can look on the millions of pages on the Internet to read about it Yes you have already said that about 5 times. It gets brought up because 96 people died at a Football match. Something you seem to be happy to forget happened. It's not brought up to annoy you, even though you seem to think it is. Do you understand why it's being brought up in September rather than usually in April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbcfc Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Well the HFSG have been leading the issue, surprisingly enough, and have every right to 'play the victim card' as you so crassly put it. I think you're parroting what Boris Johnson said and which resulted in Michael Howard, that well known Liberal, sending him to Liverpool to apologise because he was talking absolute bollo*ks. No I said the families have every right to want to know what happened to loved ones. Neil Fitzmaurice last night said 'I just want someone to tell us it wasn't our fault' well what if the new inquiry lays some blame at the feet of the fans? Are they going to push for another inquiry until they hear what they want? The victim card is too often played by Scouser & that nothing bad ever happens to anyone else but them. Glasgow has had tragedy, Bradford too. Thatcher ruined most of the North but you don't hear anyone else moaning about her. On the Boris issue would Bristolians have kicked up the same fuss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 No I said the families have every right to want to know what happened to loved ones. Neil Fitzmaurice last night said 'I just want someone to tell us it wasn't our fault' well what if the new inquiry lays some blame at the feet of the fans? Are they going to push for another inquiry until they hear what they want? The victim card is too often played by Scouser & that nothing bad ever happens to anyone else but them. Glasgow has had tragedy, Bradford too. Thatcher ruined most of the North but you don't hear anyone else moaning about her. Are you serious,millions of us still despise Thatcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbcfc Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Are you serious,millions of us still despise Thatcher. The same way millions despise Blair & millions despise Cameron that's what happens when you're in office Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 No I said the families have every right to want to know what happened to loved ones. Neil Fitzmaurice last night said 'I just want someone to tell us it wasn't our fault' well what if the new inquiry lays some blame at the feet of the fans? Are they going to push for another inquiry until they hear what they want? The victim card is too often played by Scouser & that nothing bad ever happens to anyone else but them. Glasgow has had tragedy, Bradford too. Thatcher ruined most of the North but you don't hear anyone else moaning about her. On the Boris issue would Bristolians have kicked up the same fuss? Probably not because Bristolians are too laid back to kick up a fuss about anything, the 1831 riots apart. However no doubt the Lord Mayor or local MP or the Post probably would and this what seems to have happened in Liverpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john shaws hair Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 The same way millions despise Blair & millions despise Cameron that's what happens when you're in office u forgot brown remember him ....... yea me neither Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsobigfatdave Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Have you ever been to a Liverpool game where you HAVENT been asked if you have a ticket or want to buy or sell one? Them and the Mancs have this at every game, your being very nieve if you think this only happened in Sheffield 89. Yep...several and Manchester United and Arsenal European Championship games which were all ticket ...not of the same volume as this particular match though. Not naive nor were my companions. Naivity is probably reserved for those thousands of supporters who turned up expecting to get a ticket outside of the ground...Ive even seen 30 or so cardiff supporters at the Countyground in the 80,s without tickets trying to force entrance at the Stratton bank end...multiply that by a couple of hundred and you will see what a potential problem the authorities were faced with. At the end of the day the enquiry will find the Authorities culpable because thats the way it has to be.... not dissimilar to Bloody Sunday in some respects...You have to tell Caesar what Caesar wants to hear whether its right or wrong. Its impossible to bring 10,000 football fans to justice but quite simple to blame one body of Authority. Anyone who thinks it will be any other way is probably naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poland_red Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Has your dyslexia suddenly cured itself? his dyslexia reminds me of a man who starts a fight and then pipes up, "you wouldn't hit a man with glasses, would you?" I hate scousers incidentally, but not individually, and what happened at hillsborough happened to individuals, real people with real futures. am gutted about it to this day and would dearly love to see justice served and the families that lost have some closure. I'd love also for football to return to what it was, alas, that's a wish too far. but is it meatload who sang, two out of three aint bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 No posting off my iPhone with auto correct Has your dyslexia suddenly cured itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 I was Yes Liverpool fans were pushing and shoving to get in, looknig back, errors on both sides. After all it wasn't the police that were pushing the fans in, fans need to take some culpribility, they won't though, it is easier to blame the entire thing on the police. They made mistakes, fans made mistakes. The Sun was wrong to write what they did, but there were elements of truth in it. Anyway it jhas long paswsed, but the Liverpudlian mourning mentality keeps it running and running. The only people that should be interested in it are theose directly affected, nobody else. So much common sense spoken in this post. Yes there were mistakes made... But like you say...people need to behave in a manner that is safe. Take responsibility for our own actions, and stop blaming authorities all the time. We live in a blame culture and very few these days look out for themselves or others. They just except and carry on regardless without even thinking. So sad it ever happened...but a lesson by EVERYONE should be learned. On a side note the Bradford fire for me was the most harrowing. I can still see vivid images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 What I did was reply to a post from someone who came out with facts. Facts from the inquiry, ive never said there wasn't pushing,or ticketless fans,this was the 80's and it happened at most games I was at during that time. EVERY game Liverpool play there are ticketless fans,so i don't see the relevance,and as someone pointed out earlier in this thread, the Liverpool end was NOT over capacity. The middle pen was,but the outer pens had plenty of room. Let's deal in facts, leave the shite to the likes of the sun. I appreciate that and my point was more directed generally (no multiquote on an iPhone) but the fact of the matter is that the 'facts' posted by some people dispute the 'facts' posted by people who were there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frome Valley Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 I appreciate that and my point was more directed generally (no multiquote on an iPhone) but the fact of the matter is that the 'facts' posted by some people dispute the 'facts' posted by people who were there. There is a difference between anecdotal evidence and substantiated fact. Lord Justice Taylor would have been rigorously thorough and studied tens of thousands of statements and details to come to his conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsobigfatdave Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 his dyslexia reminds me of a man who starts a fight and then pipes up, "you wouldn't hit a man with glasses, would you?" I hate scousers incidentally, but not individually, and what happened at hillsborough happened to individuals, real people with real futures. am gutted about it to this day and would dearly love to see justice served and the families that lost have some closure. I'd love also for football to return to what it was, alas, that's a wish too far. but is it meatload who sang, two out of three aint bad... No it was Meat Loaf ........ Greenhouses , glass, stones.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 There is a difference between anecdotal evidence and substantiated fact. Lord Justice Taylor would have been rigorously thorough and studied tens of thousands of statements and details to come to his conclusions. Conclusions always believed to have been watered down, especially by the families of the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 I think there are lots of small facts which lots on here will debate. Ultimately Hillsborough has been a massive cover up from day one and is a stain on this country. We may think that rogue African or Middle Eastern states are corrupt but for me Hillsborough just proves how corrupt our own system can be. Literally from Thatcher down, the state sought to protect itself and blame us, footbal fans, for this disaster. If we are honest the evidence against the Ambulance service, Police Service and Government at the time is over whelming. I hope with all my heart that the truth comes out and blame is apportioned correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 I think there are lots of small facts which lots on here will debate. Ultimately Hillsborough has been a massive cover up from day one and is a stain on this country. We may think that rogue African or Middle Eastern states are corrupt but for me Hillsborough just proves how corrupt our own system can be. Literally from Thatcher down, the state sought to protect itself and blame us, footbal fans, for this disaster. If we are honest the evidence against the Ambulance service, Police Service and Government at the time is over whelming. I hope with all my heart that the truth comes out and blame is apportioned correctly. Somthing we can all agree on is the police are mostly to blame with failure in crowd control but if some sort of cover up was made by the then tory govenment then thats where the anger should be aimed, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 I'm worried that with Thatcher on her death bed, they will seek to divert attention away from the subsequent cover up and highlight the failings of the Public Services on the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Just litening now. One word, shame. Shame on them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Effectively just said that Government at the time knew that the police were at fault but did nothing about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Glad to hear we have finally dispelled the 3.15 myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbcfc Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Effectively just said that Government at the time knew that the police were at fault but did nothing about this. No he didn't he said there was no evidence to suggest the government covered anything up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 <p> No he didn't he said there was no evidence to suggest the government covered anything up The actions of police were depressingly familiar (familiar in what way????) and they discussed calling for the then Chief to resign but did not challenge it and instead let the corrupt version of events and tampered evidence remain. I run the country, i know something has been done wrong, i know someone is culpable, but i choose to do nothing about it. Maybe you're right, maybe that is not actively covering it up. But my word it is a shameful, shamful thing to carry that around with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 But like you say...people need to behave in a manner that is safe. Take responsibility for our own actions, and stop blaming authorities all the time. We live in a blame culture and very few these days look out for themselves or others. They just except and carry on regardless without even thinking. May one ask in what way you believe the victims of Hillsborough - those suffocated at the front of an overcrowded pen from which there was no easy escape - were behaving unsafely or irresponsibly? Was not the duty of care for their safety in the remit of "the authorities" on the day? If, following such a disaster, everyone just carried on "regardless without even thinking" how would anything prevent similar things happening again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Black and white that fans were not to blame.... What was that about facts not fitting in with people's agendas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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