Dolman Stand Access - Important Information

[WTFiGO!?!]

I don't think that is fair, didn't DL say all the ST holders would be e-mailed?

Fair enough, I'll retract that.

Still , the only solution deployed is to 'advise' early arrival via the internet seems totally inept given the problem. But Dave/City think otherwise. . .

[Langford Red]

How difficult will it be to exit at the end of the game?

Only one instead of two exits!

[Guest]

A few months ago I went to a presentation by Dave L in the DEH about how the rebuild would affect the Dolman. What has happened since has been a shambles as new, unexpected, changes have emerged with frightening regularity. These problems were covered in another thread - the club left it far too late to appoint a contractor with the result we've got this endless firefighting.

One comment from Dave L that I can remember was approx "you in the Dolman won't be affected very much next season". Famous last words.

 

On the planning documents on the BCC site it shows just two temporary walkways down.. I seriously hope this was just a mock up.

 

When the lower tier is gone and one end is blocked because of work on the EE.. well frankly I'd be scared shitless if there was an emergency and the stand had to evacuate.

[RedYoshi]

While I agree "turn up early" is not necessarily the most comprehensive solution to such an issue, I feel the panic amongst some (particularly when based on their own theoretical situations) is possibly a bit extreme.

 

Firstly, I'm sure there will be ongoing discussions in regards to additional measures (DL has already taken on board the DEH suggestion, as well as considering this thread a "heads up" as opposed to a "catch-all comprehensive solution"). That may be overly hopeful of me, but I generally prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

Secondly, this "we need 80 people consistently arriving every minute for 58.3 minutes" theory is incredibly reactionary, particularly considering the fact that it has been stated that the turnstiles will open 1.5 hours before kick off.

 

Anyone, therefore, who turns up between 13.30 - 14.01, reduces the number of people who need to "arrive every single minute" for the next 58.3 minutes.

 

Seeing as it'll be advertised to all season ticket holders, and probably a fair chunk of other fans, that turning up early would be a good idea, I imagine that perhaps a fifth or so will turn up between 13.30 - 14.01 (around 930 people).

 

That leaves 3734 people to arrive in this magical "58.3 minutes", equating to 8 seconds per person per turnstile - already a two second leeway on the quoted maximum operating capabilities.

 

Bearing in mind, however, that arrivals are likely to increase in rate as kick off approaches, I'd suggest that perhaps around 35% of this 3734 (approx. 1307) will arrive between 14.01 - 14.30, which would equate to around 11 seconds per person per turnstile.

 

Then, we face the final half hour, during which the remaining 2427 need to arrive. This equates to just under 6 seconds per person per turnstile. Therefore, turning up much after 14.30 is less likely to get you in for kick off.

 

That's all I think DL is saying, really. Not "everyone turn up at 14.30", but "turn up around 14.30, and you should be ok, based on the fact that we imagine there will be others turning up before that time".

 

 

And sure, all of these calculations kind of assume a "steady stream", but that's the only way you can calculate anything like this - using averages.

 

During 13.30 - 14.01, it doesn't actually need people to turn up precisely 15 seconds after one another.

 

From 14.01 - 14.30, there's no need for people to leave an 11 second gap between them and the person in front.

 

There's also no stopclock on the turnstile that stops you going through sooner than 6 seconds after the person before you. I've not timed myself going through a turnstile before, but I'm pretty sure I go through quicker than 6 seconds - it's a surprisingly long time.

 

Admittedly, I've used spurious amounts of people, based on nothing but a vague idea of how people may or may not react to the request of turning up a bit earlier, but it's an improvement on "a constant stream of 80 people per minute for 58.3 minutes".

 

Say it's bang on, though: the final 2427 people, if entering at a rate of 7 seconds per person, will all be inside the ground in 35.4 minutes.

 

Therefore, the first 2057 people turning up at 14.30 will be inside in time for kick off.

 

That's not too bad, really.

 

370 people missing 5 minutes is far from terrible. It equates to 8% of the entire Dolman crowd.

 

And this is all based on a sell out.

 

I reiterate, it's not ideal and there needs to be extra plans in place. But people need to calm down a little bit. We can help this part of the plan work better by turning up a little earlier if we can. Then, the people who can't turn up earlier have more chance of getting in.

 

 

 

N.B. I reserve the right for these calculations to be horrendously wrong, and if proved to be, will join everyone else in putting their hands the air and running round in circles screaming about how nothing's ever going to work, ever.

[Mad Cyril]

So you are suggesting that BCFC shouldn't try & mitigate the inconvenience to their paying customers then? Good call that.

The whole point is that they are. They are building a new stadium. Regretably there will be inconvenience along the way which Dave flags up in advance...better that than continuing with the ageing structures we currently endure which are not exactly outstanding. Also better this than shipping us out to another ground for a season of crappy groundsharing while all the work is done in one go.

I have moved my seat, will change where i drink pre match, and will get there a bit earlier. I am also looking forward to a shiny new ground.

[meltonmowbrayred]

Why not have dolman people being put though at the gates between the Ateyo and Williams, and th walking actions the stone walkway. Not a great idea but should help a little.

The best idea would be to put temporary turnstiles across the gate near the dolman as suggested above

Simple   Put temporary turnstiles between the Atyeo and Dolman (in the gateway).  These can be hinged in the middle to allow them to open (Health & Safety)  I recon you could get another 6 or 8 in the gap?

[glynriley]

Everyone going in the Dolman stand on 16th August, make sure you have 50p for the 'How long will they delay kick off' sweepstake amongst the 'bloody gurt queues'

[Guest]

On the planning documents on the BCC site it shows just two temporary walkways down.. I seriously hope this was just a mock up.

 

When the lower tier is gone and one end is blocked because of work on the EE.. well frankly I'd be scared shitless if there was an emergency and the stand had to evacuate.

Agree with this.

There surely has to be one set of steps per block so that the people at the top can be evacuated immediately by the quickest route possible provided it is not obstructed by the reason for the evacuation.

Presumably these evacuation plans and routes are approved by the council when issuing the ground licence?

[WTFiGO!?!]

Simple   Put temporary turnstiles between the Atyeo and Dolman (in the gateway).  These can be hinged in the middle to allow them to open (Health & Safety)  I recon you could get another 6 or 8 in the gap?

Has a reason why this solution isn't being implemented been forwarded?

Think the two main issues here are:

What % of people can't comply with the request to 'just turn up a bit earlier'?

Are City going to be pro-active in terms of incentives/rewards for those that can, to do so?

We're all greatful to our Great Uncle Steve for funding our home improvement, however, the running of the club has always insensed people despite the assurance that 'lessons will be learned'. The approach to this current issue is completely underwheming and seems hopelessly naive to me.

I'll be the first to give credit if Colchester runs smoothly, incidentally.

As for night games, I just hope there's enough people who are able and prepared to enter the ground at 6.15-6.45.

Still think it's a sad inditment that in 2014 City can't work out a more professional plan.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Getting in to the ground on time is no longer an incentive for football supporters to get to ground early.

Over priced good and drink, crap entertainment, terrible music (or static) no wifi .....

If football stadiums were nice places to be fans would get there early every matchday.

[Bristol Rob]

Getting in to the ground on time is no longer an incentive for football supporters to get to ground early.

Over priced good and drink, crap entertainment, terrible music (or static) no wifi .....

If football stadiums were nice places to be fans would get there early every matchday.

If we are winning more often than not then I would imagine people will be happy to get in the ground earlier, a sense of anticipation and all that.

[phantom]

Red yoshi you clearly have too much time on your hands

[T R]

Couldn't the club print off numbered tickets for the dolman. Then give this to the senior steward around outside the dolman. If large queues start to build up he and other colleagues can walk down the line of the queue, check peoples season tickets for dolman, then hand them a ticket. They could use the exit gate to gain entry and then hand the ticket (while showing season card again) to the steward at the gate, so he can hand them back to the ticket office so they know the numbers of people that have gone through.

[Bristol Rob]

Couldn't the club print off numbered tickets for the dolman. Then give this to the senior steward around outside the dolman. If large queues start to build up he and other colleagues can walk down the line of the queue, check peoples season tickets for dolman, then hand them a ticket. They could use the exit gate to gain entry and then hand the ticket (while showing season card again) to the steward at the gate to hand back to the ticket office so they know the numbers of people that have gone through.

How would they be able to tell if a season ticket had already been used?

[WTFiGO!?!]

Couldn't the club print off numbered tickets for the dolman. Then give this to the senior steward around outside the dolman. If large queues start to build up he and other colleagues can walk down the line of the queue, check peoples season tickets for dolman, then hand them a ticket. They could use the exit gate to gain entry and then hand the ticket (while showing season card again) to the steward at the gate to hand back to the ticket office so they know the numbers of people that have gone through.

hmm, all sounds a bit innovative for me.

Seriously, this plan should be a goer.

[WTFiGO!?!]

How would they be able to tell if a season ticket had already been used?

You'd have to slip it back to your mate, right under the noses of the stewards, through the gate.

Remember, the temporary ticket needs to be presented with ST.

[meltonmowbrayred]

Dave - thanks for the responses.

I take it the Club's Safety Officer is happy with the idea of the route from the gates to the main road being blocked for 40 plus minutes by hundreds, if not thousands, of supporters waiting to get in then. Bizarre. Why not just move the concession van put a few metal barriers in by the side of the Atyeo for season ticket holders and steward people in through the gates.

Assume the safety officer didn't see the mess outside the POTD ticket booths at the first game last year. Assume he/she wasn't concerned that (the assumed) emergency exit between the Williams and Atyeo was blocked by queues for over an hour and a half with people who were getting more and more hacked off with the situation and talk of rushing the gates?

Appreciate there's a building site at the East End but assume a pitch side runoff zone will exist. Even my local park that has a building project going on behind the pitches have retained the run off areas.

Just seems to me we're going for a repeat of last year's farces. Yes, we all understand the building issues ... but a little bit of lateral thinking to ease things up a bit wouldn't go amiss.

Anyhows, it doesn't look like anything's going to change. All I ask is for a decent contingency plan to be put in place, better than away officials taking a grip of the situation at 2.55pm and as they did with the Bradford fans and some City steward opening up the Club shop to process tickets for hundreds of cheesed off supporters at 3:35pm.

My idea of temporary turnstiles beween Ateo and Dolman where I did covered Health and Safety has been glossed over (Exit/need for access)  You can hire temporary PORTABLE turnstiles from this company amongst others (www.Abacos.co.uk) and have them moved  after kick off to re-instate the gateway exit. Have the club really already looked into this properly?; I think not

[T R]

You'd have to slip it back to your mate, right under the noses of the stewards, through the gate.

Remember, the temporary ticket needs to be presented with ST.

Yes that is the plan.

 

Also if the temporary tickets are handed back they could be reused for the next game.

 

What do you reckon dave, good plan or not? must be a spanner in the works somewhere.

[Red Ferret]

Maybe we should get some of those nifty underground tunnels like the ones Hamas use

[pongo88]

370 people missing 5 minutes is far from terrible. It equates to 8% of the entire Dolman crowd.

And this is all based on a sell

N.B. I reserve the right for these calculations to be horrendously wrong, and if proved to be, will join everyone else in putting their hands the air and running round in circles screaming about how nothing's ever going to work, ever.

Missing 5 minutes if far from terrible unless you are one of those people. I've paid for a ticket and I expect to see the entire match (though on some occasions last season I wished I hadn't)

[beaverface]

It's all very well being told to arrive in good time, but when Bristol was flooding this year, places like the Portway, Cumberland Basin and Coronation road started to flood and delay traffic. You only want another hair brained scheme by old red trousers to kick in or a car accident on route and the timings for getting to the ground early go up in smoke.

 

To me, there just isn't any contingency built into the timings being mentioned.

[Monkeh]

It's all very well being told to arrive in good time, but when Bristol was flooding this year, places like the Portway, Cumberland Basin and Coronation road started to flood and delay traffic. You only want another hair brained scheme by old red trousers to kick in or a car accident on route and the timings for getting to the ground early go up in smoke.

 

To me, there just isn't any contingency built into the timings being mentioned.

god forbid an act of god stops people going to the football,

people are kicking off about a reasonable request from the club, tell you what why don't we just stop the redevelopment and do **** all with the ground as it causes too much disruption,

 

complete over reaction to a minor problem that may or may not happen,

[pongo88]

god forbid an act of god stops people going to the football,

people are kicking off about a reasonable request from the club, tell you what why don't we just stop the redevelopment and do **** all with the ground as it causes too much disruption,

complete over reaction to a minor problem that may or may not happen,

I don't think that an act of God is a minor problem! Don't let him hear you say that or you'll never make it to heaven.

[WTFiGO!?!]

god forbid an act of god stops people going to the football,

people are kicking off about a reasonable request from the club, tell you what why don't we just stop the redevelopment and do **** all with the ground as it causes too much disruption,

 

complete over reaction to a minor problem that may or may not happen,

Whether it's an over reaction or not will only be known during and after the Colchester game.

In your opinion, was the fan reaction after the Bradford game ott?

[beaverface]

god forbid an act of god stops people going to the football,

people are kicking off about a reasonable request from the club, tell you what why don't we just stop the redevelopment and do **** all with the ground as it causes too much disruption,

 

complete over reaction to a minor problem that may or may not happen,

 

It's not an over reaction, but simple logic!

 

In the past we've probably had a little bit of slack in our entrance process for crowds turning up a little bit late (last season being an exception), but the timings being quoted don't have any room for manoeuvre at all, so if any act of "God", traffic accident, bridge swings, broken down buses, road works occur, then there's going to be a lot of upset and angry fans.

[WTFiGO!?!]

That reasonable request, Monkeh, is for people to be rocking up at 6.15 for a 7.45 kick off.

[beaverface]

That reasonable request, Monkeh, is for people to be rocking up at 6.15 for a 7.45 kick off.

 

As an example, I work in Bradley Stoke, I travel home to Kingswood to pick up the missus, and then have to make my way across Bristol to the gate.

 

6:15pm is a difficult ask, especially as I finish work at 5:30pm and it takes 20minutes to get home!

 

I don't consider myself an exceptional or out of town supporter, whereas my brother in law travels up for night games from Paignton, so I dread to think of his logistics in all of this.

[WTFiGO!?!]

As an example, I work in Bradley Stoke, I travel home to Kingswood to pick up the missus, and then have to make my way across Bristol to the gate.

 

6:15pm is a difficult ask, especially as I finish work at 5:30pm and it takes 20minutes to get home!

 

I don't consider myself an exceptional or out of town supporter, whereas my brother in law travels up for night games from Paignton, so I dread to think of his logistics in all of this.

There's no way I can get to a Saturday game before 2.45.

Unless absolute, military precision is practiced by club and the best part of 4800 people (stop your sniggering at the back), I dread to think what time myself and countless others get in.

Flagging up these concerns, just to compound the issue, I am then ajudged to be a drama queen.

It's not acceptable.

[!james]

That reasonable request, Monkeh, is for people to be rocking up at 6.15 for a 7.45 kick off.

Again sorry if I missed it but where has the club/Dave L suggested arriving at 6:15pm for evening games? (Or an hour and a half before kick off)

Apart from people trying to do their own mathematical models the only advice from Dave L I can see regarding time is:

"2pm is a bit early, but I would recommend 2.30 if you want to be certain of getting in. We will be sending out mailshots etc nearer the time, but i wanted to put a heads up on here so people are aware"

[Drew Peacock]

Again sorry if I missed it but where has the club/Dave L suggested arriving at 6:15pm for evening games? (Or an hour and a half before kick off)

Apart from people trying to do their own mathematical models the only advice from Dave L I can see regarding time is:

"2pm is a bit early, but I would recommend 2.30 if you want to be certain of getting in. We will be sending out mailshots etc nearer the time, but i wanted to put a heads up on here so people are aware"

I would dearly love to see the modeling that is based on.

I assume it has been modeled and what if analysis done?

With reference to Monkeh, access and egress is hardly a minor problem although I accept we may be pleasantly surprised. I intend getting down ridiculously early, with a good book.