Dolman Stand Access - Important Information

[WTFiGO!?!]

Again sorry if I missed it but where has the club/Dave L suggested arriving at 6:15pm for evening games? (Or an hour and a half before kick off)

Apart from people trying to do their own mathematical models the only advice from Dave L I can see regarding time is:

"2pm is a bit early, but I would recommend 2.30 if you want to be certain of getting in. We will be sending out mailshots etc nearer the time, but i wanted to put a heads up on here so people are aware"

Well we'll see, won't we? Half an hour is more than reasonable, just, given the mathematical models ie/City plan to get x amount of people in in x amont of time - they appear to be as delusional as the gas board flatly denighing that relegation os a possibility.

Other, more definate gripes inc:

Why is it only now the club know about this?

and secondly:

Supposing, just supposing Colchester does descend into utter shambles, what is the contingency plan for the next game?

[Aizoon]

Well we'll see, won't we? Half an hour is more than reasonable, just, given the mathematical models ie/City plan to get x amount of people in in x amont of time - they appear to be as delusional as the gas board flatly denighing that relegation os a possibility.

Other, more definate gripes inc:

Why is it only now the club know about this?

and secondly:

Supposing, just supposing Colchester does descend into utter shambles, what is the contingency plan for the next game?

 

To blame the fans?

[OneManMob]

To blame the fans?

 

This will be what happens. Lessons learned etc.

 

Just look at last season and the utter ******* farce that wasn't sorted for months with massive ques. We all seem to have to be flexible with everything but the club aren't exactly helping.

[JamesBCFC]

It's all very well being told to arrive in good time, but when Bristol was flooding this year, places like the Portway, Cumberland Basin and Coronation road started to flood and delay traffic. You only want another hair brained scheme by old red trousers to kick in or a car accident on route and the timings for getting to the ground early go up in smoke.

 

To me, there just isn't any contingency built into the timings being mentioned.

but if thats the case you'd be missing less of the game by leaving early

[JamesBCFC]

There's no way I can get to a Saturday game before 2.45.

Unless absolute, military precision is practiced by club and the best part of 4800 people (stop your sniggering at the back), I dread to think what time myself and countless others get in.

Flagging up these concerns, just to compound the issue, I am then ajudged to be a drama queen.

It's not acceptable.

I can see your point but if just half the people in the dolman are able to get there a bit earlier then it makes it easier for everyone and at the end of the day it's only a temporary problem and AG will be much better when the redevelopments finished

[RedYoshi]

Missing 5 minutes if far from terrible unless you are one of those people. I've paid for a ticket and I expect to see the entire match (though on some occasions last season I wished I hadn't)

 

A fair shout, absolutely. Not saying it's perfect, just that when a ground is being redeveloped one should expect a certain amount of disruption, and 370 people missing a bit isn't the worst disruption that could occur.

 

Also, as this was all based on a sell out Dolman, it would only need 370 seats to not be sold to eradicate such an issue.

 

To be fair, it's not like my calculations are anything like foolproof or accurate to any definable degree, but were merely intended to put the situation into some sense of perspective (away from "we're all doomed"). I'm sure they'll be proved to be absolute poppycock once 1000 people are left stranded outside the ground as we score 4 goals in the first 10 minutes. But I hope they won't be.

 

The fact also still remains that additional measures should be considered, but I similarly hope that they are being.

[redsquirrel]

get a large screen tv above the turnstiles so those stuck waiting to get in dont miss kick off

[Aipearcey]

No-ones mentioned the effect of people getting out of the DEH. With turnstiles filling up from the road entrances surely it's only going to back up all down the alley way and back into the hall. So anyone think that anyone thinking they can leave at 2.35 and get into the ateyo/Williams anywhere near near kick off really needs to have a rethink as you going to have barge past thousands of people who have been waiting to get into the dolman since 20 past 2. I appreciate that everyone is going to adapt over the next couple of years but this really is poor by the club and I really think some soloution has to be found.

[WTFiGO!?!]

No one's mentioned parachuting in, which would be a noval idea. Have a steward up on a crane checking tickets.

[Bristol Rob]

No one's mentioned parachuting in, which would be a noval idea. Have a steward up on a crane checking tickets.

 

Do you remember when the parachuted the new kit on to the pitch on an opening day of the season?

 

3 blokes jumped out of a light aircraft and tried to navigate their way to Ashton Gate. (I hope to God I haven't just dreamt this).

[WTFiGO!?!]

Do you remember when the parachuted the new kit on to the pitch on an opening day of the season?

 

3 blokes jumped out of a light aircraft and tried to navigate their way to Ashton Gate. (I hope to God I haven't just dreamt this).

Think you may have been at the late night cheese there, mate.

I was at Villa Park the day a parachutest hit the roof and dropped to the ground, nasty business. We'll have to be weary of that.

Another idea is that we evolve wings, quickly.

Have City explored every avenue here, really?

[North London Red]

Have City explored every avenue here, really?

 

How about a set of human catapults in Greville Smyth Park...have some stewards checking tickets before firing people into the stadium over the Atyeo.

[Stephen Lewis]

god forbid an act of god stops people going to the football,

people are kicking off about a reasonable request from the club, tell you what why don't we just stop the redevelopment and do **** all with the ground as it causes too much disruption,

 

complete over reaction to a minor problem that may or may not happen,

 

Why is an act of god always  a bad thing?

My god will get everyone into the match on time and feed the 14,000 on 1 lot of fish & chips.

[East End Old Boy]

Do you remember when the parachuted the new kit on to the pitch on an opening day of the season?

 

3 blokes jumped out of a light aircraft and tried to navigate their way to Ashton Gate. (I hope to God I haven't just dreamt this).

If I remember correctly, a match ball was once brought in by parachute, circa mid 1970's.

[Dollymarie]

My only worry is if we score early on, whilst people are still coming in (because lets face it, that's whats going to happen, no matter how much the club ask people to get there earlier) and then they get peed off that they've missed the goal and aren't so patient about queuing.

[glynriley]

Do you remember when the parachuted the new kit on to the pitch on an opening day of the season?

 

3 blokes jumped out of a light aircraft and tried to navigate their way to Ashton Gate. (I hope to God I haven't just dreamt this).

 

Wasn't that for the launch of the Purple away kit? I thought it was the last game of the season, showing next seasons kits. While ago though so may be wrong.

[Mad Cyril]

My only worry is if we score early on, whilst people are still coming in (because lets face it, that's whats going to happen, no matter how much the club ask people to get there earlier) and then they get peed off that they've missed the goal and aren't so patient about queuing.

I am more worried about conceding an early goal.

Come on Dolly - which team are you supporting?

[RedRaw]

My idea of temporary turnstiles beween Ateo and Dolman where I did covered Health and Safety has been glossed over (Exit/need for access)  You can hire temporary PORTABLE turnstiles from this company amongst others (www.Abacos.co.uk) and have them moved  after kick off to re-instate the gateway exit. Have the club really already looked into this properly?; I think not

 

 

Ironically, this is part of the construction plan for entry/exit to the Dolman later in the development (once the lower tier has been demolished) although that may be because other access/exit issue may be resolved by that time

 

 

http://planningonline.bristol.gov.uk/online-applications/files/8F7F16C879D9897C8FAC87FBE104242F/pdf/14_03101_COND-CONSTRUCTION_SEQUENCE_20-06-14_SMALL_PART_1_OF_2-1153848.pdf

[BTRFTG]

Before crunching the numbers Red Yoshi needs to learn to go with the 'flow'...

Pour yourself a pint of Thatchers comrade and ponder:

• Why do buses arrive in 3s?
• Why is there often no obvious obstruction causing the motorway snarl up?
• Why don't parallel queues ease at the same rate?
• Why, when entering an expanse via a restricted entrance, do more people turn right than left?

 

The answers to the above are all taken into consideration when designing ingress/egress and flow through buildings, particularly large venues such as sports stadia.

 

Note also the flaw in Yoshi's calculation - the licencing authority set the capacity based upon the number who may be safely accommodated within 60 minutes of the event commencing - even they don't think punters are dumb enough to spend 90 minutes or so staring at the grass.

 

Many posts here have picked up the key point that in modern stadia access to pre match facilities is 'post entry' to the ground, hence City really need to investigate how they might make use of entrance between DEH and the ground.

 

As I've previously requested of Dave, City already has the evidence to model how entrance via the restricted turnstiles might be expected to perform. Over the past few years what have been the peak/average flow rates through the turnstiles (or might it be the case City doesn't have the data because of the multiple failings of the system)? If so, that's very worrying.

 

Red Yoshi might have been wise to enter an element of bias into his calculations, question being how much? Here are couple of examples from the past as to why 6 seconds is ambitious:

• Season opener, father in ground, young son delayed in holiday traffic. 3:15 - Father passes son his new season ticket through the gate; ticket doesn't work. Steward says son will have to go to the main ticket office to find out why its not working. Son probably doesn't know where that is. Steward refuses to let father out of ground to assist son who at this point is clearly distressed. 3:20- Father informs steward his life expectancy is rapidly diminishing and once gate is opened pulls son through, hands ticket to steward and tells him to go and sort. "How will I know where you are?" "It's printed on the ticket ********" Half time: ticket office rep hands back the ticket with a scant apology: "...ticket was reported stolen." "Really, by whom?. It's mine and it wasn't reported by me as I hadn't lost it!"
• Father arranges booking of block of 8 season tickets. Mid season one of the tickets is mislaid and owner arranges for replacement, which he gets. 5 of the 8 get to know about this when they were refused entry at the next game because their tickets had been 'cancelled'.

Now if you get to the front of a Wurzelesque queue, 10 minutes to kick off and discover something beyond your control is preventing your entry, are you passively going to stand aside, fight your way through the crowds to the ticket office, queue there, resolve, then re-join the back of the queue? Or are you going to stand your ground, hold up those behind you and go ballistic? I think here are more brawlers than Buddhists at AG. 

 

Re exit arrangements: City had better plan for an army of 'enforcing' stewards in the stand as those exiting extra early and blocking the exit to watch the finish, ruining the views of those at row end or front, will be needed to break up skirmishes. Expect, too, those who head for the exit and then find they'll have to leave rather than tarry will either kick off or head back. Many of you will be familiar with the 'Stairway 13' deaths at Ibrox in 1971, fewer realise 2 fans died, same stair, same reason, 10 years earlier and that fans were seriously injured, with life changing consequence, same stair, same reason, in two incidents between the deaths.

[Fodbarmyarmy]

me....I am just going to sit on the wall with me Natch and then walk over when it looks as if it's getting busier .....  just the same as every game for last 15+ years or so...........

[PHILINFRANCE]

Before crunching the numbers Red Yoshi needs to learn to go with the 'flow'...

Pour yourself a pint of Thatchers comrade and ponder:

• Why do buses arrive in 3s?
• Why is there often no obvious obstruction causing the motorway snarl up?
• Why don't parallel queues ease at the same rate?
• Why, when entering an expanse via a restricted entrance, do more people turn right than left?

 

The answers to the above are all taken into consideration when designing ingress/egress and flow through buildings, particularly large venues such as sports stadia.

 

Note also the flaw in Yoshi's calculation - the licencing authority set the capacity based upon the number who may be safely accommodated within 60 minutes of the event commencing - even they don't think punters are dumb enough to spend 90 minutes or so staring at the grass.

 

Many posts here have picked up the key point that in modern stadia access to pre match facilities is 'post entry' to the ground, hence City really need to investigate how they might make use of entrance between DEH and the ground.

 

As I've previously requested of Dave, City already has the evidence to model how entrance via the restricted turnstiles might be expected to perform. Over the past few years what have been the peak/average flow rates through the turnstiles (or might it be the case City doesn't have the data because of the multiple failings of the system)? If so, that's very worrying.

 

Red Yoshi might have been wise to enter an element of bias into his calculations, question being how much? Here are couple of examples from the past as to why 6 seconds is ambitious:

• Season opener, father in ground, young son delayed in holiday traffic. 3:15 - Father passes son his new season ticket through the gate; ticket doesn't work. Steward says son will have to go to the main ticket office to find out why its not working. Son probably doesn't know where that is. Steward refuses to let father out of ground to assist son who at this point is clearly distressed. 3:20- Father informs steward his life expectancy is rapidly diminishing and once gate is opened pulls son through, hands ticket to steward and tells him to go and sort. "How will I know where you are?" "It's printed on the ticket ********" Half time: ticket office rep hands back the ticket with a scant apology: "...ticket was reported stolen." "Really, by whom?. It's mine and it wasn't reported by me as I hadn't lost it!"
• Father arranges booking of block of 8 season tickets. Mid season one of the tickets is mislaid and owner arranges for replacement, which he gets. 5 of the 8 get to know about this when they were refused entry at the next game because their tickets had been 'cancelled'.

Now if you get to the front of a Wurzelesque queue, 10 minutes to kick off and discover something beyond your control is preventing your entry, are you passively going to stand aside, fight your way through the crowds to the ticket office, queue there, resolve, then re-join the back of the queue? Or are you going to stand your ground, hold up those behind you and go ballistic? I think here are more brawlers than Buddhists at AG. 

 

Re exit arrangements: City had better plan for an army of 'enforcing' stewards in the stand as those exiting extra early and blocking the exit to watch the finish, ruining the views of those at row end or front, will be needed to break up skirmishes. Expect, too, those who head for the exit and then find they'll have to leave rather than tarry will either kick off or head back. Many of you will be familiar with the 'Stairway 13' deaths at Ibrox in 1971, fewer realise 2 fans died, same stair, same reason, 10 years earlier and that fans were seriously injured, with life changing consequence, same stair, same reason, in two incidents between the deaths.

 

An excellent, well thought-out and presented post (based, presumably, on your experience in this field).

 

I should like to reply, but shall need some time to do so.

[TRL]

Before crunching the numbers Red Yoshi needs to learn to go with the 'flow'...

Pour yourself a pint of Thatchers comrade and ponder:

• Why do buses arrive in 3s?
• Why is there often no obvious obstruction causing the motorway snarl up?
• Why don't parallel queues ease at the same rate?
• Why, when entering an expanse via a restricted entrance, do more people turn right than left?

The answers to the above are all taken into consideration when designing ingress/egress and flow through buildings, particularly large venues such as sports stadia.

Note also the flaw in Yoshi's calculation - the licencing authority set the capacity based upon the number who may be safely accommodated within 60 minutes of the event commencing - even they don't think punters are dumb enough to spend 90 minutes or so staring at the grass.

Many posts here have picked up the key point that in modern stadia access to pre match facilities is 'post entry' to the ground, hence City really need to investigate how they might make use of entrance between DEH and the ground.

As I've previously requested of Dave, City already has the evidence to model how entrance via the restricted turnstiles might be expected to perform. Over the past few years what have been the peak/average flow rates through the turnstiles (or might it be the case City doesn't have the data because of the multiple failings of the system)? If so, that's very worrying.

Red Yoshi might have been wise to enter an element of bias into his calculations, question being how much? Here are couple of examples from the past as to why 6 seconds is ambitious:

• Season opener, father in ground, young son delayed in holiday traffic. 3:15 - Father passes son his new season ticket through the gate; ticket doesn't work. Steward says son will have to go to the main ticket office to find out why its not working. Son probably doesn't know where that is. Steward refuses to let father out of ground to assist son who at this point is clearly distressed. 3:20- Father informs steward his life expectancy is rapidly diminishing and once gate is opened pulls son through, hands ticket to steward and tells him to go and sort. "How will I know where you are?" "It's printed on the ticket ********" Half time: ticket office rep hands back the ticket with a scant apology: "...ticket was reported stolen." "Really, by whom?. It's mine and it wasn't reported by me as I hadn't lost it!"
• Father arranges booking of block of 8 season tickets. Mid season one of the tickets is mislaid and owner arranges for replacement, which he gets. 5 of the 8 get to know about this when they were refused entry at the next game because their tickets had been 'cancelled'.

Now if you get to the front of a Wurzelesque queue, 10 minutes to kick off and discover something beyond your control is preventing your entry, are you passively going to stand aside, fight your way through the crowds to the ticket office, queue there, resolve, then re-join the back of the queue? Or are you going to stand your ground, hold up those behind you and go ballistic? I think here are more brawlers than Buddhists at AG.

Re exit arrangements: City had better plan for an army of 'enforcing' stewards in the stand as those exiting extra early and blocking the exit to watch the finish, ruining the views of those at row end or front, will be needed to break up skirmishes. Expect, too, those who head for the exit and then find they'll have to leave rather than tarry will either kick off or head back. Many of you will be familiar with the 'Stairway 13' deaths at Ibrox in 1971, fewer realise 2 fans died, same stair, same reason, 10 years earlier and that fans were seriously injured, with life changing consequence, same stair, same reason, in two incidents between the deaths.

Makes all those get over it, arrive earlier and other banal comments look rather silly now. And the clubs solution to this also look rather unprofessional

Interesting to see if this is taken on board.

[Aizoon]

Before crunching the numbers Red Yoshi needs to learn to go with the 'flow'...

Pour yourself a pint of Thatchers comrade and ponder:

• Why do buses arrive in 3s?
• Why is there often no obvious obstruction causing the motorway snarl up?
• Why don't parallel queues ease at the same rate?
• Why, when entering an expanse via a restricted entrance, do more people turn right than left?

 

The answers to the above are all taken into consideration when designing ingress/egress and flow through buildings, particularly large venues such as sports stadia.

 

Note also the flaw in Yoshi's calculation - the licencing authority set the capacity based upon the number who may be safely accommodated within 60 minutes of the event commencing - even they don't think punters are dumb enough to spend 90 minutes or so staring at the grass.

 

Many posts here have picked up the key point that in modern stadia access to pre match facilities is 'post entry' to the ground, hence City really need to investigate how they might make use of entrance between DEH and the ground.

 

As I've previously requested of Dave, City already has the evidence to model how entrance via the restricted turnstiles might be expected to perform. Over the past few years what have been the peak/average flow rates through the turnstiles (or might it be the case City doesn't have the data because of the multiple failings of the system)? If so, that's very worrying.

 

Red Yoshi might have been wise to enter an element of bias into his calculations, question being how much? Here are couple of examples from the past as to why 6 seconds is ambitious:

• Season opener, father in ground, young son delayed in holiday traffic. 3:15 - Father passes son his new season ticket through the gate; ticket doesn't work. Steward says son will have to go to the main ticket office to find out why its not working. Son probably doesn't know where that is. Steward refuses to let father out of ground to assist son who at this point is clearly distressed. 3:20- Father informs steward his life expectancy is rapidly diminishing and once gate is opened pulls son through, hands ticket to steward and tells him to go and sort. "How will I know where you are?" "It's printed on the ticket ********" Half time: ticket office rep hands back the ticket with a scant apology: "...ticket was reported stolen." "Really, by whom?. It's mine and it wasn't reported by me as I hadn't lost it!"
• Father arranges booking of block of 8 season tickets. Mid season one of the tickets is mislaid and owner arranges for replacement, which he gets. 5 of the 8 get to know about this when they were refused entry at the next game because their tickets had been 'cancelled'.

Now if you get to the front of a Wurzelesque queue, 10 minutes to kick off and discover something beyond your control is preventing your entry, are you passively going to stand aside, fight your way through the crowds to the ticket office, queue there, resolve, then re-join the back of the queue? Or are you going to stand your ground, hold up those behind you and go ballistic? I think here are more brawlers than Buddhists at AG. 

 

Re exit arrangements: City had better plan for an army of 'enforcing' stewards in the stand as those exiting extra early and blocking the exit to watch the finish, ruining the views of those at row end or front, will be needed to break up skirmishes. Expect, too, those who head for the exit and then find they'll have to leave rather than tarry will either kick off or head back. Many of you will be familiar with the 'Stairway 13' deaths at Ibrox in 1971, fewer realise 2 fans died, same stair, same reason, 10 years earlier and that fans were seriously injured, with life changing consequence, same stair, same reason, in two incidents between the deaths.

What a pity no one at the club will read, mark and digest

[CyderInACan]

Or why DaveL has used a hastag that says "be at the rush" - why would I want to be at the rush? I think I'll wait til it's nice and quiet thankyou very much.

 

#beattherush

[RedRaw]

Or why DaveL has used a hastag that says "be at the rush" - why would I want to be at the rush? I think I'll wait til it's nice and quiet thankyou very much.

 

#beattherush

 

# beat the rush

[Aizoon]

"Many posts here have picked up the key point that in modern stadia access to pre match facilities is 'post entry' to the ground, hence City really need to investigate how they might make use of entrance between DEH and the ground."

 

There's a curious similarity to First Great Western's  'Berlin Wall' approach to revenue protection. Because its major stations were designed to be 'open', most of them have many major facilities outside the ticket barriers.

 

Result: either you bring your own sandwiches / drinks / newspapers / paperbacks or you risk having to fight your way through the barriers twice while being snooted at by spotty morons in ill-fitting uniforms. Take your time at the cafe and you risk finding yourself behind a sudden rush at the barrier and missing your train.

 

Sounds familiar? It's a pain for the customer and a revenue loss for the company, but who really cares?

[SecretSam]

This may be a stupid suggestion, but here goes - could we just "push" the line of Dolman turnstiles back into a "V" shape so we can squeeze a couple more in????  My inspiration comes from Marylebone station, where they did that same thing to cure massive demand but limited space - went from a flat row to a "V" shape

 

Would mean a bit of fun and games but surely do-able?

[pongo88]

There has been one thing implied but not actually stated in the various posts.

Due to work / family commitments and / or travel arrangements, there will be a large group of supporters who will be unable to arrive early. This group, in all probability, miss the start of every match. What a way to treat customers, many of whom, have bought season tickets.

Come on Dave L - if you're still reading this thread get the powers that be to sort things out.

[CodeRed]

This may be a stupid suggestion, but here goes - could we just "push" the line of Dolman turnstiles back into a "V" shape so we can squeeze a couple more in????  My inspiration comes from Marylebone station, where they did that same thing to cure massive demand but limited space - went from a flat row to a "V" shape

 

Would mean a bit of fun and games but surely do-able?

I'm sure it is......................but the club haven't put much thought into it any solutions yet.   

 

Two things will happen

 

1) The club will find a way to allow fans who have passed through the turnstiles to enter the

DEH - that's relatively easy to sort out once they actually start to think about it

 

2) The turnstiles/exit gates will be opened at 2.50pm to allow the massive angry queue to enter without

checks.............that's what happened last time when the scanners didn't work and that "solution" will be

deployed again at the first game.

 

Only then will they start to think about actual practical solutions like portable turnstiles etc, up to that

point they hope enough people will get there early enough to minimise the queues. They won't though,

some will ( a few hundred maybe?) but that's all. 

[Drew Peacock]

There has been one thing implied but not actually stated in the various posts.

Due to work / family commitments and / or travel arrangements, there will be a large group of supporters who will be unable to arrive early. This group, in all probability, miss the start of every match. What a way to treat customers, many of whom, have bought season tickets.

Come on Dave L - if you're still reading this thread get the powers that be to sort things out.

 

And when the lower Dolman has gone all the access will be at the front and people will be coming in fairly solidly for many minutes, so the first row will stand up so they can see, then the second row, then the third row, etc, etc, etc.