We are worse under Johnson....

[Andy082005]

22 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I don't doubt we had some bigger name applicants for the job, I suspect we spoke to the likes of Nigel Pearson, Stuart Pearce, Gareth Southgate and considered Warnock.

Of those names I believe that Nigel Pearson was strongly considered, but his back room team demands were a hinderance. I wouldn't have wanted Pearce or Southgate personally either. Neither have a record to get excited about.

Then there was Warnock, but he would only really be considered a fire fighting, short term appointment. LJ was the man who was decided could take us forward, long term. And I believe the board thought we had enough time and quality (with a few additions in jan) to stay up with LJ at the helm, as we weren't cut a drift in the league and clearly, as proven since, under performing with SC in charge.

Can you think of any other names? You can't really argue some mystery applicant 'could' have been a better appointment if you can't give a name!

For me, Pearson would have been the man to elevate us to the next level. If he wanted his own backroom staff....we should have let him. It would have cost money but money which could have been spent.

I made a point on amothet thread that very rarely we bring in a player, improve said player....and move him on to bigger and better things. I strongly believe our coaching staff and set up is not good enough to take us to the next level, and with the appointment of Lee Johnson....I don't think it's going to improve any time soon.

I certainly don't believe it's capable of delivering Premiership football, that's for sure 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

I would suggest LJs start here has been solid picking up 12 points from 21, his contacts and ability looks solid.. bringing in Matthews and Odemwingie. He recognizes when things need changing like Saturday and does it. 

Solid start, long may it continue and built upon

[Alessandro]

16 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

For me, Pearson would have been the man to elevate us to the next level. If he wanted his own backroom staff....we should have let him. It would have cost money but money which could have been spent.

I made a point on amothet thread that very rarely we bring in a player, improve said player....and move him on to bigger and better things. I strongly believe our coaching staff and set up is not good enough to take us to the next level, and with the appointment of Lee Johnson....I don't think it's going to improve any time soon.

I certainly don't believe it's capable of delivering Premiership football, that's for sure 

You can't deny Pearson has a track record LJ doesn't have. Whether we, or he, were ever serious about doing a deal, we will never know. Irrespective of cost, his backroom staff are still at Leicester and unlikely to leave anytime soon(!) certainly not for us, so I suspect it was never really a go-er for Pearson.

Not sure I enitely agree with your sentiment about improving players, we've sold plenty over the years who've improved and gone on to better things, off the too of my head Cole, Akinbiyi, more recently Lita (for a while!) Skuse, Adomah, Bolasie. 

Either way, LJ. Who knows, time will tell! But let's be honest, it's been a solid start, let's hope it continues.

 

[Andy082005]

9 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

You can't deny Pearson has a track record LJ doesn't have. Whether we, or he, were ever serious about doing a deal, we will never know. Irrespective of cost, his backroom staff are still at Leicester and unlikely to leave anytime soon(!) certainly not for us, so I suspect it was never really a go-er for Pearson.

Not sure I enitely agree with your sentiment about improving players, we've sold plenty over the years who've improved and gone on to better things, off the too of my head Cole, Akinbiyi, more recently Lita (for a while!) Skuse, Adomah, Bolasie. 

Either way, LJ. Who knows, time will tell! But let's be honest, it's been a solid start, let's hope it continues.

 

Cole, Akinbyi and Lita were so long ago. ...you can't consider them.  Skuse and Bolaise certainly stagnated here....and Adomah is a much more accomplished player since he left. 

I may sound harsh...but I do believe we haven't evolved enough behind the scenes in recent years. I certainly don't believe our current set up will kick us on

With regards Pearson and his backroom staff. ..they probably wouldn't leave Leicester granted, but as it stands. ..they may not want to leave full stop. So unless Pearson intends to never work again...he may have to start looking at other staff he can work with and trust. Don't under estimate how much the staff at Leicester like Pearson mind

One final note on Pearson to. He needs to get back in football soon as he runs the risk of becoming the next Alan Curbishley. Football moves on quickly....

It's all irrelevant  though now I guess 

[Jack Dawe]

1 hour ago, Andy082005 said:

If Lee Johnson keeps us up, I will hold my hands up and apologise, and will be happy to do so. A little humble pie means Championship football next season....I can certainly handle that .

Going forward...I still have my doubts.

I still don't think Lee Johnson is/was the best man for the job, or even the best applicant ....but I think he is/was the best man for what Lansdown and Co wants. He fits the Bristol City 'DNA'. Or in other words....he does the ****  what he's told!

 

I believe harmony between owner/board and first team head coach has much to recommend it. Last summer and this season shows us this. To have everyone "singing from the same hymn sheet" on transfer policy, for example, will give us a fighting chance in this league next season (if we stay up) compared to this season 

[Alessandro]

4 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Cole, Akinbyi and Lita were so long ago. ...you can't consider them.  Skuse and Bolaise certainly stagnated here....and Adomah is a much more accomplished player since he left. 

I may sound harsh...but I do believe we haven't evolved enough behind the scenes in recent years. I certainly don't believe our current set up will kick us on

With regards Pearson and his backroom staff. ..they probably wouldn't leave Leicester granted, but as it stands. ..they may not want to leave full stop. So unless Pearson intends to never work again...he may have to start looking at other staff he can work with and trust. Don't under estimate how much the staff at Leicester like Pearson mind

One final note on Pearson to. He needs to get back in football soon as he runs the risk of becoming the next Alan Curbishley. Football moves on quickly....

It's all irrelevant  though now I guess 

I hear what you're saying, but if you don't want to look backwards since Adomah, (the last of the players to leave us and improve back in 2013) that was the year Pembo arrived. To be honest most of our coaching staff have changed since then, Pembo 2013, Jennings 2014, Wade? SC, then LJ 2016. It is most likely an entirely different coaching team now, and over the last three years, I would say, bar a few this year, many players have improved under this set up. We won promotion with players who most definitely improved for moving to us. We haven't needed to sell either. 

Entirely agree with you about Pearson, needs to get on with it, but I get the feeling he never fancied this job.

 

 

[Alessandro]

3 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

I believe harmony between owner/board and first team head coach has much to recommend it. Last summer and this season shows us this. To have everyone "singing from the same hymn sheet" on transfer policy, for example, will give us a fighting chance in this league next season (if we stay up) compared to this season 

You only have to look at Middlesbrough to see how right this is. Whatever is happening there, player spat or not, the board should support the manager and the discipline should be in place that he would never have to 'walk out'. A mess.

[Jack Dawe]

2 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

You only have to look at Middlesbrough to see how right this is. Whatever is happening there, player spat or not, the board should support the manager and the discipline should be in place that he would never have to 'walk out'. A mess.

Heard today that Karanka didn't want Rhodes, it was Gibson's idea. And possibly Downing the same. If that's true, I'm surprised. We know this doesn't work! Maybe the pressure is getting to Steve Gibson?

[Alessandro]

4 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

Heard today that Karanka didn't want Rhodes, it was Gibson's idea. And possibly Downing the same. If that's true, I'm surprised. We know this doesn't work! Maybe the pressure is getting to Steve Gibson?

Always looked at Gibson as one of footballs more sensible and likeable chairmen so this does sound surprising, but who knows? One thing's for sure, a meddling chairman is usually a recipe for disaster. I always remember the documentary about QPR and Briatore sending someone from the stands to tell Dowie to sub a player. 

[Son of Fred]

1 hour ago, Andy082005 said:

For me, Pearson would have been the man to elevate us to the next level. If he wanted his own backroom staff....we should have let him. It would have cost money but money which could have been spent.

I made a point on amothet thread that very rarely we bring in a player, improve said player....and move him on to bigger and better things. I strongly believe our coaching staff and set up is not good enough to take us to the next level, and with the appointment of Lee Johnson....I don't think it's going to improve any time soon.

I certainly don't believe it's capable of delivering Premiership football, that's for sure 

Money,and him not being a yes man were stumbling blocks.if Johnson doesn't keep us up that will be an even bigger one..

[BigAl&Toby]

2 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

If Lee Johnson keeps us up, I will hold my hands up and apologise, and will be happy to do so. A little humble pie means Championship football next season....I can certainly handle that .

Going forward...I still have my doubts.

I still don't think Lee Johnson is/was the best man for the job, or even the best applicant ....but I think he is/was the best man for what Lansdown and Co wants. He fits the Bristol City 'DNA'. Or in other words....he does the ****  what he's told!

If we stay up....one.thing is for sure, I'll be expecting Lansdown to put his money where is mouth is this summer. I'll be expecting progress next season, and by progress I mean mid-table/top half positioning all season.

 

 

I'm to some extent with you. I doubt that SL really wants to make Bristol City proud. Making Bristol Proud isn't the same thing. 

His interest in sport is more to do with what he knows best - an investment and making money - rather than a philanthropic contribution to the history of BCFC.

However if in doing that we have some better football that's sustainable then I'm right behind him.

I think LJ might well be the man to evolve that. Might be wrong but the nonsense about £9m signings and the likes of Pearson or Moyes coming here was simply that - nonsense 

In the meantime me, the boy and Grampy David will be there on Saturday. Roaring them on for another 6 points! 

[cityexile]

9 hours ago, The dastardly red said:

Grow a pair? Are you American? Do you say "my bad" as well?

Is that really from across the pond? Damnation. My only excuse is I work with young people, and must have picked it up.

Poor excuse. I suitably hang my head in shame.

[BigAl&Toby]

16 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

Money,and him not being a yes man were stumbling blocks.if Johnson doesn't keep us up that will be an even bigger one..

But Robert he will. Keep us up. I have no doubt.

And I'm no rose tinted happy clapper. I genuinely think LJ is far better than SC - who I think had taken us as far as he was able.

I suspect there weren't really many other options. Apart from Warnock .

And that could only ever have been short lived. He can't have long left now 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

16 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

I believe harmony between owner/board and first team head coach has much to recommend it. Last summer and this season shows us this. To have everyone "singing from the same hymn sheet" on transfer policy, for example, will give us a fighting chance in this league next season (if we stay up) compared to this season 

This is very true, the past 14 months has been a stark reminder of how football has changed IMO, a manager and his board/owner with obviously 2 different interpretations of the direction of the club, the manager years ago would probably have quit on a point of principle, especially when his stock was high and the chairman years ago would have either challenged the manager to either my way or the highway or sacked him earlier before more damage was caused, the upshot was it would appear that both dug their heels in and sulked and the recruitment side of things was left to fester into an open wound at the expense of results.

 

[richwwtk]

16 hours ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

His interest in sport is more to do with what he knows best - an investment and making money - rather than a philanthropic contribution to the history of BCFC.

 

I don't think SLs interest in sport is anything at all to do with making money. He only got involved because he was asked to and his son was already a fan.

he is a fan as much as an investor and, I believe, truly wants to supply a base for City to evolve and become a much more significant and successful club than they have previously been.

He has had several false starts with misguided 'mission statements' and poor managerial appointments but eventually, with Bristol Sport, the stadium rebuild and the appointment of more football orientated people to higher positions within the club he appears to be getting it right.

Lee Johnson was not appointed through favouritism but because he was the best candidate of those available. He may not have had the track record of some of the other names mentioned, but he obviously interviewed well and showed enough determination, brains and ambition to be considered the man for the job, and from what he's shown so far it seems to be a justified appointment, although still early days of course.

The main thing I don;t understand though, is the people criticising the appointment of LJ, saying he only got it because he will be a 'yes' man. What does that even mean? If Steve Lansdown wanted someone to just do as he wishes he'd have taken the job himself or given the job to his son! If it means someone that is happy to work within the structure of Bristol Sport and work within a defined strategy, then surely that is a sensible choice, rather than someone that you are going to be forever arguing with?

[Port Said Red]

18 hours ago, Robert the bruce said:

Money,and him not being a yes man were stumbling blocks.if Johnson doesn't keep us up that will be an even bigger one..

I keep seeing this, 'yes man' in what respect? Do you think SL is picking the team? telling him who to sign? deciding tactics?  all of these things? He has never shown any inclination to do any of these things before, so why do people think it was important for him to sign a 'yes man' this time around?

[Selred]

8 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I keep seeing this, 'yes man' in what respect? Do you think SL is picking the team? telling him who to sign? deciding tactics?  all of these things? He has never shown any inclination to do any of these things before, so why do people think it was important for him to sign a 'yes man' this time around?

I don't totally agree. SL is a superb owner, but the David James scenario was one of his problems with interfering. 

[1960maaan]

23 minutes ago, Selred said:

I don't totally agree. SL is a superb owner, but the David James scenario was one of his problems with interfering. 

I read SL approached the then manager, said would you like the England keeper? Answer was yes and he signed him. Over enthusasm maybe but he did ask apparently.

before I'm shot down , my memory maybe faulty but I'm sure I read this.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 hours ago, richwwtk said:

I don't think SLs interest in sport is anything at all to do with making money. He only got involved because he was asked to and his son was already a fan.

he is a fan as much as an investor and, I believe, truly wants to supply a base for City to evolve and become a much more significant and successful club than they have previously been.

He has had several false starts with misguided 'mission statements' and poor managerial appointments but eventually, with Bristol Sport, the stadium rebuild and the appointment of more football orientated people to higher positions within the club he appears to be getting it right.

Lee Johnson was not appointed through favouritism but because he was the best candidate of those available. He may not have had the track record of some of the other names mentioned, but he obviously interviewed well and showed enough determination, brains and ambition to be considered the man for the job, and from what he's shown so far it seems to be a justified appointment, although still early days of course.

The main thing I don;t understand though, is the people criticising the appointment of LJ, saying he only got it because he will be a 'yes' man. What does that even mean? If Steve Lansdown wanted someone to just do as he wishes he'd have taken the job himself or given the job to his son! If it means someone that is happy to work within the structure of Bristol Sport and work within a defined strategy, then surely that is a sensible choice, rather than someone that you are going to be forever arguing with?

and you know this exactly how?, have you seen a list of candidates?.

I used to work with a guy once who told me "I will get promoted because I can pass exams and I interview well I trained myself to do that, but I know I will not be the best person for the job, why should I care?".

To be honest I would have thought that the interview process for a football managers job is quite simple, 1. do you have the requisite certificates to coach at this level?. 2. this is our/my aims/philosophy, do you agree with it?. 3. do you believe you can deliver my aims under my philosophy?. What else is their? everything else is of public record and that's probably the only real yardstick.

 

[NOTBLUE]

27 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I read SL approached the then manager, said would you like the England keeper? Answer was yes and he signed him. Over enthusasm maybe but he did ask apparently.

before I'm shot down , my memory maybe faulty but I'm sure I read this.

Sure I've read that several times,apparently he did ask.

[richwwtk]

8 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

and you know this exactly how?, have you seen a list of candidates?.

I used to work with a guy once who told me "I will get promoted because I can pass exams and I interview well I trained myself to do that, but I know I will not be the best person for the job, why should I care?".

To be honest I would have thought that the interview process for a football managers job is quite simple, 1. do you have the requisite certificates to coach at this level?. 2. this is our/my aims/philosophy, do you agree with it?. 3. do you believe you can deliver my aims under my philosophy?. What else is their? everything else is of public record and that's probably the only real yardstick.

 

Why would they employ someone that they thought wasn't the best of the candidates available? Not who you think was best, but who was the best in their opinion?

All we have to go on is a managers past record and their public persona. You have to believe that the people actually involved in the appointment process have a little more information available to them when making their choice.

There is always a chance that he isn't necessarily the right fit for the job, past record on employing managers proves that, but so far it feels about right.

A historically successful manager is not always the right man, he also has to fit well into the club he is working for.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, richwwtk said:

Why would they employ someone that they thought wasn't the best of the candidates available? Not who you think was best, but who was the best in their opinion?

All we have to go on is a managers past record and their public persona. You have to believe that the people actually involved in the appointment process have a little more information available to them when making their choice.

There is always a chance that he isn't necessarily the right fit for the job, past record on employing managers proves that, but so far it feels about right.

A historically successful manager is not always the right man, he also has to fit well into the club he is working for.

How can you or anybody else make any assumption without knowing who any the candidates were?, that's if there ever were other candidates/interviews, which of course was one of the allegations put about after SC's appointment.

As for the highlighted portion you would like to believe that but history actually proves otherwise.

Just to put my position plainly, just like the previous 5 appointments which initially all underwhelmed me at the time, only one actually achieved anything, but then his time was up and he had to go, I just need a little more convincing that LJ is the right man long term, as i've said safety in the championship would be a welcome start and comfortable mid table next season would convince that me we are on the right track, modest sustainable progress and then perhaps go for it.

I admire in the main his honest assessments of games, I certainly admire his ballsy substitutions and I admire the fact that he seems to be able to keep heads up after a few bad results and come back with an encouraging result whilst still acknowledging that a couple weeks ago too many people believed that an 8 point gap was job done.

 

 

[JamesBCFC]

2 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

How can you or anybody else make any assumption without knowing who any the candidates were?, that's if there ever were other candidates/interviews, which of course was one of the allegations put about after SC's appointment.

As for the highlighted portion you would like to believe that but history actually proves otherwise.

Just to put my position plainly, just like the previous 5 appointments which initially all underwhelmed me at the time, only one actually achieved anything, but then his time was up and he had to go, I just need a little more convincing that LJ is the right man long term, as i've said safety in the championship would be a welcome start and comfortable mid table next season would convince that me we are on the right track, modest sustainable progress and then perhaps go for it.

I admire in the main his honest assessments of games, I certainly admire his ballsy substitutions and I admire the fact that he seems to be able to keep heads up after a few bad results and come back with an encouraging result whilst still acknowledging that a couple weeks ago too many people believed that an 8 point gap was job done.

 

 

Why don't you think he will be the right man long term? His managerial career has been short so hasn't had a chance to do a huge amount, yet he has taken one team away from a probable relegation up to mid table, and then taken another team to a cup final, for such a short career that isn't a bad record at all.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

7 minutes ago, City169 said:

Why don't you think he will be the right man long term? His managerial career has been short so hasn't had a chance to do a huge amount, yet he has taken one team away from a probable relegation up to mid table, and then taken another team to a cup final, for such a short career that isn't a bad record at all.

Firstly I haven't said I don't think he is the right man, I have said I need more evidence and anyway you have answered your own question.

Given the previous 5 choices SL/the board has made and the fact as you say short managerial career, all at league 1 level, he represents a huge risk, do I hope that risk pays off? too ******* right I do, which is exactly the same as I felt about SC, I don't see what all of the fuss is about, a majority of people doubted SC and a lot of people doubt LJ, there is only one way to change that doubt and he has made a good start.

 

[BigAl&Toby]

3 hours ago, richwwtk said:

I don't think SLs interest in sport is anything at all to do with making money. He only got involved because he was asked to and his son was already a fan.

he is a fan as much as an investor and, I believe, truly wants to supply a base for City to evolve and become a much more significant and successful club than they have previously been.

He has had several false starts with misguided 'mission statements' and poor managerial appointments but eventually, with Bristol Sport, the stadium rebuild and the appointment of more football orientated people to higher positions within the club he appears to be getting it right.

Lee Johnson was not appointed through favouritism but because he was the best candidate of those available. He may not have had the track record of some of the other names mentioned, but he obviously interviewed well and showed enough determination, brains and ambition to be considered the man for the job, and from what he's shown so far it seems to be a justified appointment, although still early days of course.

The main thing I don;t understand though, is the people criticising the appointment of LJ, saying he only got it because he will be a 'yes' man. What does that even mean? If Steve Lansdown wanted someone to just do as he wishes he'd have taken the job himself or given the job to his son! If it means someone that is happy to work within the structure of Bristol Sport and work within a defined strategy, then surely that is a sensible choice, rather than someone that you are going to be forever arguing with?

You might be right.

I suppose what I feel uncomfortable with is the fact that so much of what I see is now Bristol Sport and making Bristol proud.

SL owns the main long term asset and that makes me nervous and I suspect BCFC more vulnerable.

Gone are the days of many clubs owning their own ground and becoming a franchise. I have no problem with an investor wanting a return on their money or having some security.

What I struggle with however is the decisions that are made or aren't made, the impact that then has on the performance and future of BCFC and how "the men with the money" bear little of the overall risk.

Look no further than Bolton. Or any other club where questionable decisions have resulted in a major shift in the fortunes of a once (relatively) successful club.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

You might be right.

I suppose what I feel uncomfortable with is the fact that so much of what I see is now Bristol Sport and making Bristol proud.

SL owns the main long term asset and that makes me nervous and I suspect BCFC more vulnerable.

Gone are the days of many clubs owning their own ground and becoming a franchise. I have no problem with an investor wanting a return on their money or having some security.

What I struggle with however is the decisions that are made or aren't made, the impact that then has on the performance and future of BCFC and how "the men with the money" bear little of the overall risk.

Look no further than Bolton. Or any other club where questionable decisions have resulted in a major shift in the fortunes of a once (relatively) successful club.

of course it would be interesting to know the day to day influence SL has over the running of Bristol rugby, especially given the years of relative failure under the present head coach Robinson, would he have kept his job if he was the manager of BCFC?.

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Firstly I haven't said I don't think he is the right man, I have said I need more evidence and anyway you have answered your own question.

Given the previous 5 choices SL/the board has made and the fact as you say short managerial career, all at league 1 level, he represents a huge risk, do I hope that risk pays off? too ******* right I do, which is exactly the same as I felt about SC, I don't see what all of the fuss is about, a majority of people doubted SC and a lot of people doubt LJ, there is only one way to change that doubt and he has made a good start.

 

A short, but actually relatively successful career. I feel it's harsh that people are saying he hasn't done much when in reality he hasn't had the chance to.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

16 hours ago, City169 said:

A short, but actually relatively successful career. I feel it's harsh that people are saying he hasn't done much when in reality he hasn't had the chance to.

My wife feels that it's harsh that she's only 5foot 5ins tall but it's a fact.

[JamesBCFC]

3 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

My wife feels that it's harsh that she's only 5foot 5ins tall but it's a fact.

Again though, saying someone hasn't done much long term when their managerial career has been 2-3 years is just being a dick about it, on a separate not Ranieri should be sacked for not winning 20 trophies this season.

[Port Said Red]

On 3/16/2016 at 13:57, City169 said:

Again though, saying someone hasn't done much long term when their managerial career has been 2-3 years is just being a dick about it, on a separate not Ranieri should be sacked for not winning 20 trophies this season.

To be fair to Andy, he could be right, another weekend has passed without a win, I am sure SC, would have got us 3 points today.