We are worse under Johnson....

[Esmond Million's Bung]

30 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree...but typically, certain fans are picking up on that one quote...he also made some very valid points about players not playing to instruction etc.

I'm getting a bit tired of comparing managers...it's all tit for tat.

What SC and SoD did in the past has gone...the pro's and con's leave us where we are now.

All we can do is hope we stay up.

I'll judge LJ and the club next season.

If we go down...I won't blame LJ....I'll blame the farce of a summer and results from the majority of this season.

i'm sorry Spud, LJ will have to take his share of the blame given, the start that Pemberton and Elliott gave him and the relatively good position that he himself led us to, but my main target will be the board who had an opportunity to leave Pemberton and Elliott in post to the end of the season but saw fit to bring in somebody as yet is unproven, the board who keep telling us that they are listening but obviously constantly misunderstand the message we send them or actually listen but do as they want anyway.

As for the tit for tat it is something you and I and others have indulged in and will continue especially if LJ starts to look for excuses if our recent poor run continues, because as you kept telling us it's just excuses.

 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

21 minutes ago, BCFC Jordan said:

 

There's no question of SL's financial backing and his willingness for the club to do well. However, time after time the board (not just SL) prove that they aren't competent enough for us to be able to compete at Championship level. Whether we have an experienced manager or one with lots of potential - they all end up going down the same route. It's not a coincidence, the responsibility is with those at the top.

 

Failure to back one of the best managers we've had last summer, at a time when we had so much momentum, could result in relegation. It'd be a disaster but we've brought it upon ourselves through bad decision-making.

 

I don't want SL to leave the club - he has the best interests for us at heart. But we just seem to repeat the same mistakes again and again. This time last year SC was leading us to a league title and two trophies - a record breaking season. We did not back him in the summer and now there's a real possibility we could be playing Rovers next season. LJ has been thrown in at the deep end.

Did we not? I thought we actually did.

Cotterill was his own worst enemy, his record, inability and stubbornness to change things was his own downfall... noone elses. He disregarded all that to make some kind of point to the board while hurting the clubs chances of survival.

SL was right to sack him but it should've been a month sooner

[Robin1988]

4 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

Did we not? I thought we actually did.

Trust me, we didn't. Targets were given to the board very early on and completely ignored until it was far too late. That's why we ended up chasing largely unrealistic moves for Gray & Gayle so late in the window; had they been anywhere near our first targets, wouldn't we have moved for them earlier? Of course we would.

No doubt he was stubborn, but he was given a pretty poor hand to play in the first place, when he'd worked some real magic to get us to this level.

[View from the Dolman]

2 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Trust me, we didn't. Targets were given to the board very early on and completely ignored until it was far too late. That's why we ended up chasing largely unrealistic moves for Gray & Gayle so late in the window; had they been anywhere near our first targets, wouldn't we have moved for them earlier? Of course we would.

No doubt he was stubborn, but he was given a pretty poor hand to play in the first place, when he'd worked some real magic to get us to this level.

It'd be easier if the 'in the know' types could agree a story.

I thought the deal was that things were agreed and then somebody tried to renegotiate? 

I'm confused.

[Jack Dawe]

29 minutes ago, shelts said:

Not sure the board had anything to do with our keepers mistake last night. Easy to blame the board, the idiot that pours millions into City lets hope he doesnt take his ball home for quite a few years. 

No, you don't judge a board of directors/majority share owner/a club's decision makers over moments in matches, or even a whole match. Nor even ten or twelve matches. You judge them over the longer haul, the bigger picture. Two, three, four years. Maybe five. At some point, it must be ok to ask: how are we doing, on the pitch, under the people running the club, the people hiring and firing the people that hire and fire the people out on the pitch?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

Did we not? I thought we actually did.

Cotterill was his own worst enemy, his record, inability and stubbornness to change things was his own downfall... noone elses. He disregarded all that to make some kind of point to the board while hurting the clubs chances of survival.

SL was right to sack him but it should've been a month sooner

if your interpretation is correct (which I doubt, I see it more as a joint venture) then SL is guilty of gross dereliction of his duty as owner to allow that to happen for such a long period of time, they were obviously meant for each other acting like spoilt kids and the club and it's fans suffering as usual, I can't see that happening with LJ he will undoubtedly toe the line and that will make SL happy, the fans as usual well that's another matter.

 

[Frenchay Red]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

So a mistake by the keeper comes from a lack of confidence in the manager? Seriously? I'm lost for words if you think that...

Without that mistake we would have drawn....a good result at Wolves.

The reactions on here are hilarious...I really can't comprehend how people think a new manager will come in and all of a sudden make us a promotion winning team.

Since SC left our points won has been better on average.

Korey Smith is injured...so is Ayling... Little struggles...and we have a new RB trying to get match fit.

Were we outplayed at Wolves? Did we concede a bag of goals? No...we played like an average Championship team...yes we lost...but look at the results in this league...they are all over the place. Anyone can beat anyone. Leeds at Cardiff the same night...

Yes...I do believe we have players here that when fully fit could be mid table. But we will struggle to achieve if injuries keep happening, because of the lack of numbers...hardly LJ's fault.

Anyone that thinks a new manager would be able to come here and keep winning games is delusional...it was never going to happen.

We don't have the numbers or quality to do that...avoid relegation?...hopefully...but the situation we find ourselves in, is purely down to the summer lack of recruitment and lack of points under SC.

A reality check is needed imo.

Apparently not

[Esmond Million's Bung]

5 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

It'd be easier if the 'in the know' types could agree a story.

I thought the deal was that things were agreed and then somebody tried to renegotiate? 

I'm confused.

That has made me laugh and is so very true.

The rest of your post is almost certainly as close to truth as we will actually get.

 

[Redmycolour]

18 hours ago, Redtucks said:

So we'll go down Tesco in the morning to buy one off the shelf shall we???

 

 

Well how much i hate the gas.they get a striker on loan from a Premier league club.and we cant as LJ says.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

9 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

if your interpretation is correct (which I doubt, I see it more as a joint venture) then SL is guilty of gross dereliction of his duty as owner to allow that to happen for such a long period of time, they were obviously meant for each other acting like spoilt kids and the club and it's fans suffering as usual, I can't see that happening with LJ he will undoubtedly toe the line and that will make SL happy, the fans as usual well that's another matter.

 

No different to SL not getting rid of Johnson Snr. sooner than he did so it isn't necessarily a new thing.

My interpretation is down to the pro 'ITK' Cotterill fans on here who believed this, judging by that, Cotterills less than cryptic, bullish remarks about one thing or another and the boards very short communication on the official site its not hard to come up with a conclusion which isn't that far off the mark.

LJ is a very young up and coming coach who is still learning unlike his two predeccesors who are grizzled veterans of the game, you would think they (especially the latter) would not so much 'tow the line' but not try and go up against a board when there would be only winner and that's the board, while the fans again suffer.

[NickJ]

4 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I do agree with this Jordan.

Cotterill's stated aim was for City to make their mark in the Championship this time by taking the game to our opponents and playing a system of attacking and entertaining football. He knew that City's history at this level showed that trying to survive by playing negative, inhibited football would only lead to two or three seasons of desperate struggle before eventual inevitable relegation.

For whatever reason the players needed for that system to be successful in this division didn't arrive and we struggled not only with signings but results wise as well, It must be said though that many of the players since signed were due to sign for SC anyway and imo his record of fighting relegation - never having been manager of a relegated side -  should have given everyone confidence he would keep City up by hook or by crook, and then improve the squad enough to make his system far more successful next season.

So there was real hope for us fans that City would become a club noted in the Championship for playing attacking and successful football - as you say a club with a really positive identity - while gradually establishing ourselves season by season in the Championship in an expansive way that made supporting BCFC at this level enjoyable.

With the appointment of LJ we will probably just about stay up, but what then? I have no confidence at all of real progression for this club in the Championship now and without our own philosophy and identity it will be just a matter of time, possibly even next season, before we take the drop.

In the meantime we'll generally struggle, entertainment and optimism will be sparse, wins few and far between, with fan enthusiasm and attendance inevitably dropping. We can hope for nothing more than to be at best mediocre in all respects at Championship level while our annual aim will be little more than avoiding relegation while playing the scrappy and unadventurous football required to achieve it.

Not a great prospect, especially as we've all sat through the same with ever decreasing enthusiasm before.

For me the hope for something extraordinary with Bristol City genuinely doing something different with a determination to really make their mark this time has gone. Without it we are a comparatively poorly financed club with nothing different to offer tactically who will usually be outgunned by far better equipped opponents leading to only one conclusion.

The hope of real progression and exciting football at AG went with Cotterill's sacking and it's all a massive anti climax and hugely disappointing.

 

"This"....

9 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Trust me, we didn't. Targets were given to the board very early on and completely ignored until it was far too late. That's why we ended up chasing largely unrealistic moves for Gray & Gayle so late in the window; had they been anywhere near our first targets, wouldn't we have moved for them earlier? Of course we would.

No doubt he was stubborn, but he was given a pretty poor hand to play in the first place, when he'd worked some real magic to get us to this level.

..."This"...

6 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

No, you don't judge a board of directors/majority share owner/a club's decision makers over moments in matches, or even a whole match. Nor even ten or twelve matches. You judge them over the longer haul, the bigger picture. Two, three, four years. Maybe five. At some point, it must be ok to ask: how are we doing, on the pitch, under the people running the club, the people hiring and firing the people that hire and fire the people out on the pitch?

... and "This".

My earlier question asked if anybody seriously believes LJ will get us promoted from this division.

So far, nobody has said yes.

My next question will be slightly more debatable, but IF we stay up, is there anyone that thinks that SC could conceivably have got us promotion from this division?

I would say there are a fair few who would answer "Yes" to that question.

The bigger picture than just a handful of results, is that whereas nobody has any confidence that LJ will get us promotion, there are some who believe SC could have done it, and to take up one of Nogbad's many excellent points, would have achieved it, or failed, playing, for many of us, a more attractive brand of football.

LJ has been given a contract until summer of 2019, and the consensus so far on here is he will either take us down during that time, or he will be sacked, or at best we will have clung to Championship status for those 3 years, and LJ will take us down some time after that, and/or be sacked some time after that.

Unless Lansdown can see something that so far on here nobody else can, given Lansdowns stated objective of challenging for promotion to the Premiership, I do not see any logic, at all, in LJ's appointment.

 

[Alan Dicks]

Blame the manager blame the players blame the fans..

THE HEAD OF THIS ORG IS STEVE LANSDOWN

How many years has he had to succeed?

How many millions has he wasted? (see Del Boy interview)

NEVER STEVES FAULT THOUGH IS IT?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

No different to SL not getting rid of Johnson Snr. sooner than he did so it isn't necessarily a new thing.

My interpretation is down to the pro 'ITK' Cotterill fans on here who believed this, judging by that, Cotterills less than cryptic, bullish remarks about one thing or another and the boards very short communication on the official site its not hard to come up with a conclusion which isn't that far off the mark.

LJ is a very young up and coming coach who is still learning unlike his two predeccesors who are grizzled veterans of the game, you would think they (especially the latter) would not so much 'tow the line' but not try and go up against a board when there would be only winner and that's the board, while the fans again suffer.

We will see won't we, I still have reservations personally, I believe it to be a strange choice at a very strange juncture of the season, especially given the success that Pemberton and Elliott were giving us, it could have bought us time.

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, Shtanley said:

Considering LJ specifically instructed Frweman to whip the corners in with much more pace than normal I think you can definitely attribute the win to him. 

A pro footballer has to be told how to take a corner?! Dear God!

Really? From where did you get this priceless snippet?

 

[JamesBCFC]

12 minutes ago, redmycolour said:

Well how much i hate the gas.they get a striker on loan from a Premier league club.and we cant as LJ says.

FFS when will people stop twisting what LJ has said and spreading this lie?

[bs3]

6 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

We lost the game last night in the last minute cause the keeper made a howler, why is that LJ's fault?

No one is saying it is LJ fault but its the luck/mistakes that got Cotts the sack.

We don't seem have moved on from poor finishing and individual mistakes that have cost us ALL season.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

4 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

A pro footballer has to be told how to take a corner?! Dear God!

Really? From where did you get this priceless snippet?

 

Yep, next lesson is for the midfield 'how to recognise a midfield runner'

[Redtucks]

16 minutes ago, redmycolour said:

Well how much i hate the gas.they get a striker on loan from a Premier league club.and we cant as LJ says.

A Premier League striker!!!

Sounds good till you read that he's only 19 and not played yet for Swansea.

We signed a 20 year old a few weeks ago, but it doesn't make him a better striker than what we've already got.

 

[redapple]

Bristol City do not have an entitlement to win games . This season would be typically average as per the clubs history . It's staggering how stupid some people can be in blaming the manager , blaming someone . Of course the last couple of games have been frustrating . Let's hope we get our best player back , swallow some medicine and get average results and we'll stay up . 

 

[Northern Red]

22 minutes ago, Redtucks said:

A Premier League striker!!!

Sounds good till you read that he's only 19 and not played yet for Swansea.

 

I saw the striker in question when he was on loan at Chester in the Conference last year and whilst he did well, there was nothing to suggest he was much better than lower L1/upper L2 standard and there was much surprise amongst the Chester fanbase when Swansea signed him.

[Bris Red]

49 minutes ago, Alan Dicks said:

Blame the manager blame the players blame the fans..

THE HEAD OF THIS ORG IS STEVE LANSDOWN

How many years has he had to succeed?

How many millions has he wasted? (see Del Boy interview)

NEVER STEVES FAULT THOUGH IS IT?

Mate Lansdown is seen as the messiah by some. I just dont buy it. The guy isnt't very good at running our football club, if we look back at the amount of fo0k ups we have had in the last decade or so how anyone can argue otherwise baffles me.

I also dont buy the he's pumped millions of his OWN money into the club either, its bollox. He's as cute as they come and there is no way in hell that his personal fortunes have or will have at any point be put at risk. 

[ashton_fan]

4 minutes ago, bris red said:

Mate Lansdown is seen as the messiah by some. I just dont buy it. The guy isnt't very good at running our football club, if we look back at the amount of fo0k ups we have had in the last decade or so how anyone can argue otherwise baffles me.

I also dont buy the he's pumped millions of his OWN money into the club either, its bollox. He's as cute as they come and there is no way in hell that his personal fortunes have or will have at any point be put at risk. 

Who's paid for the new stadium then with the club losing £10m per season?

[NickJ]

9 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

Who's paid for the new stadium then with the club losing £10m per season?

Who owns the stadium?

Who will be paying rent to use the stadium which they used to own?

Not saying Lansdown is a bad guy but there is an element of truth in Bris Red's comments.

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

i'm sorry Spud, LJ will have to take his share of the blame given, the start that Pemberton and Elliott gave him and the relatively good position that he himself led us to, but my main target will be the board who had an opportunity to leave Pemberton and Elliott in post to the end of the season but saw fit to bring in somebody as yet is unproven, the board who keep telling us that they are listening but obviously constantly misunderstand the message we send them or actually listen but do as they want anyway.

As for the tit for tat it is something you and I and others have indulged in and will continue especially if LJ starts to look for excuses if our recent poor run continues, because as you kept telling us it's just excuses.

 

I agree!   But have been shot down in flames for saying this before and especially by one poster who I will not name.  I said exactly what you have said about leaving Pembs and Wades to continue until the end of the season, they were doing well, knew the strength and weaknesses of the team and had them playing tight and more confident.  Now LJ has come in and is tinkering with the set up, we all know about the injuries, but why mend something if's it not broken.  I feel that this change of Head Coach at the time SL did it,  will result in relegation. If there was a need for a new manager, it should have been done at the end of the season.

[ashton_fan]

3 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Who owns the stadium?

Who will be paying rent to use the stadium which they used to own?

Not saying Lansdown is a bad guy but there is an element of truth in Bris Red's comments.

If you want to know the answers just look at the company accounts, the info is all freely available

[bemmyredjeff]

10 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

Personally feel that some of the OP's comments are almost slanderous, I am amazed that he thinks he was there! He must been one of the other invisible ones who made up the "claimed" 17k crowd in the Molineux library/museum. We passed the ball really well at times in the first half, got Golbourne in behind them with some slick interplay on at least two occasions and finally worked a perfect opening for Kodjia, right on half time and .......... he screws it wide. At the risk of sounding like Andy (worlds worst summariser) Townshend, he scores there I think we go on to win the game comfortably, their fans seemed to agree as they roundly booed their team from the pitch.

My only reservation from the first half was the right side, I think if LJ could change anything he wouldn't have started Matthews (6 U21 games all season) behind Wagstaff (a couple of cameo appearances here and there all season) , sure enough straight after HT a Wolves players waltz's through the pair of them and sets up a goal they never deserved.

As for Joe Bryan, he was the most influential player on the park, tackling back well, supporting his colleagues and looking the most likely to create a chance, which he did with a lovely cross to pick out Our Man Flint.

I will agree with one thing, it was just as well that Joe was playing well, because he was having to carry the increasingly awful Freeman, I really don't know where that guys confidence has gone. On the rare occasions he shoots, he looks totally resigned to missing, before he either snatches at it widely or lays back in his armchair to loop the ball up and over the bar. He runs into blind alleys as an excuse not to have to actually create anything, and last night, regularly turned to give the ball to colleagues in a worse position than himself.

I think he only stayed on the pitch because Waggy and Matthews obviously tired badly.

As for the twattish comment about not signing a striker because of upsetting the squad, he never specified a striker he was talking about the squad as a whole and he has brought in two players since then. Does the OP honestly believe that LJ can't see we need a striker and is deliberately not signing one because of some pact with Lansdown? To what end?  Save your conspiracy theories for the pub, they might make some sort of sense after 10 pints or so.

Crikey, you must have been the only one that never fell asleep in the first half.

It was more low key than a bloody pre-season friendly !!

[Shtanley]

1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

A pro footballer has to be told how to take a corner?! Dear God!

Really? From where did you get this priceless snippet?

 

Interview with LJ himself. 

[NickJ]

8 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

If you want to know the answers just look at the company accounts, the info is all freely available

I know the answers. That's why I feel Bris Red's points are valid to a degree.

[Port Said Red]

1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

A pro footballer has to be told how to take a corner?! Dear God!

Really? From where did you get this priceless snippet?

 

It wasn't that, as the original poster knows full well. He told him (and others) to be braver in their delivery. a corner whipped in at pace can be highly effective, but it there is not a lot of difference between that and something that looks terrible if you strike it wrong. He just wanted them to forget about possible mistakes and keep trying to get the effective crosses in.

[Alessandro]

2 hours ago, NickJ said:

"This"....

..."This"...

... and "This".

My earlier question asked if anybody seriously believes LJ will get us promoted from this division.

So far, nobody has said yes.

My next question will be slightly more debatable, but IF we stay up, is there anyone that thinks that SC could conceivably have got us promotion from this division?

I would say there are a fair few who would answer "Yes" to that question.

The bigger picture than just a handful of results, is that whereas nobody has any confidence that LJ will get us promotion, there are some who believe SC could have done it, and to take up one of Nogbad's many excellent points, would have achieved it, or failed, playing, for many of us, a more attractive brand of football.

LJ has been given a contract until summer of 2019, and the consensus so far on here is he will either take us down during that time, or he will be sacked, or at best we will have clung to Championship status for those 3 years, and LJ will take us down some time after that, and/or be sacked some time after that.

Unless Lansdown can see something that so far on here nobody else can, given Lansdowns stated objective of challenging for promotion to the Premiership, I do not see any logic, at all, in LJ's appointment.

 

R.E this and the post @Nogbad the Bad you are replying to, I won't sit on the fence with any kind of "A. He might do this B. he might do that C. I'll cover my arse whatever" chat.

It is 100% my opinion that SC would not have taken us to another level or that he was capable of producing a new exciting 'brand' of football that BCFC could be renown for. Yes in League one he did, but it was not working in the Championship. I think people must be distracted by that promotion year, or maybe their memory deceives them, because this season under SC we won 4 GAMES in 26 matches. With a goal difference of MINUS 23. Some brand of football, that.

You're also very quick to say LJ doesn't have the experience to move us on. Well what was it in SC's experience to give us hope?

Did you ever read his championship record? He did not progress (league position wise) any of the teams he managed. Was it the promotions at Burnley, no sorry 34% win ratio. Or at Portsmouth, no 29% win ratio. What about Forest, ah 32% win ratio. 

The only thing SC has ever achieved are lower league promotions and trophies. 6 to be precise in 18 years of management. This coupled with our dismal form proves to me SC wouldn't have taken us anywhere but backwards.

LJ? Who knows. But I will say one thing, sometimes you need to take a punt on a manager. Roberto Martinez, Eddie Howe. All had no record. And I would also disagree that the 'consensus' is LJ will take us down. In fact i'd say the consensus is many are positive, and WILLING TO GIVE HIM A CHANCE. Perhaps not to judge after 6 games? And perhaps not judge him on the previous managers squad?!

Under LJ we've picked up some massive points, great performances at home to Ipswich and away to MK Dons. He got his tactics and substitutions bang on those days. A very good Brighton team turned us over, and the loss of our player of the season, don't forget, has effected the last two defeats. A huge mistake cost us a decent point at Wolves, not LJ's fault.

Eitherway, I believe we are at least 6 points better off at this stage having sacked SC, lose those and we be dead and buried. As happens, we're not yet. So maybe get behind the team and manager?