We are worse under Johnson....

[Alessandro]

5 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Ah but you're including Pemberton's reign too. In actual fact, since Rotherham appointed Warnock they've accrued more points than we have. And their three straight wins compared to our two straight defeats suggests that the deficit could well increase

Under Pembo we won 1, drew 1 lost 1.

Since LJ has been officially manager - Won 4, lost 3.

At Rotherham since Warnock took over - Won 3, lost 2, drawn 1.

So they've picked up 1 more point than us since Warnock, but we've still picked up 5 more points than them since SC left.

As I said in another post, i'm not bothered about Rotherham really, more focussed on Fulham and MK.

[AshtonGreat]

6 minutes ago, Selred said:

What experience does Warnock have with Championship relegation battles?

Johnson is used to this part of the table, albeit in league one. Warnock was sacked from Palace from being in bottom 3, sacked from Leeds for getting near the bottom 3, sacked from QPR for falling down into a relegation battle. Has he ever successfully kept a lower team up? The answer is no.

He kept QPR in the Championship and they were champions the following season

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, Thatch35 said:

I'm not jumping on his back - LJ has not got the experience never mind chucking him into a relegation battle. The board are more to blame which goes back to last summer.

Without the poor defending we wouldn't on won. This means on the day our play wasn't good enough to score from open play...:) yeah I understand football. Its more enjoyable to rip a team apart than depend on mistakes to win a game. 

We had multiple chances to score from open play against Ipswich, their 'keeper made a few cracking saves and there were 4/5 times the ball flashed across the face of goal just needing a touch to go in- I think Wilbs left one because it looked like was going in. Then there was when Smith/Bryan (I forgot who now) ran through into their box and should have scored but got the ball tangled in his feet. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

5 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Under Pembo we won 1, drew 1 lost 1.

Since LJ has been officially manager - Won 4, lost 3.

At Rotherham since Warnock took over - Won 3, lost 2, drawn 1.

So they've picked up 1 more point than us since Warnock, but we've still picked up 5 more points than them since SC left.

As I said in another post, i'm not bothered about Rotherham really, more focussed on Fulham and MK.

LJ's been in charge for 6 games, not 7, and we've won 3 and lost 3.

The 3 defeats being in the last 4 games.

Our form and results under LJ are very much on the decline.

[Manon]

"Weak and soft....just like our manager was as a player."

...and there it is. Betrays your real thought process and then undermines the entire post.

 

 

 

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

4 hours ago, City169 said:

Disagree overall, as people are using lack of a striker to have a go at LJ, I'd like them to come up with a list of strikers who we realistically could have signed since LJ got the job.

This is nothing to do with LJ, if anything it's a defence of LJ, it's actually a damning indictment of the the unprofessional running of our club over the the past 14 months and it's inability to conduct normal transfer business over such a long period of time and numerous windows, especially in the areas of midfield and striker which has been a joke, if you need a list from that 14 month period take a look at who other clubs have signed in that position.

 

[JamesBCFC]

16 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Ah but you're including Pemberton's reign too. In actual fact, since Rotherham appointed Warnock they've accrued more points than we have. And their three straight wins compared to our two straight defeats suggests that the deficit could well increase

So Pemberton got us 7 in 4 games- 1.75 ppg. LJ has got us 1.5 ppg and Warnock has got Rotherham 1.67 ppg. Though after just 6 games each (4 for pembo) that's hardly any time for a real comparison to be made. 

The single point difference in their respective times at City and Rovrum is that The Millers spawned a point against Brum, while RO'D threw a point away last night.

[JamesBCFC]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

This is nothing to do with LJ, if anything it's a defence of LJ, it's actually a damning indictment of the the unprofessional running of our club over the the past 14 months and it's inability to conduct normal transfer business over such a long period of time and numerous windows, especially in the areas of midfield and striker which has been a joke, if you need a list from that 14 month period take a look at who other clubs have signed in that position.

 

That I do agree with, but many on here are using it as a stick to beat LJ with, that's why I ask who LJ could realistically have brought in that is better than what we have.

[Alessandro]

12 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

LJ's been in charge for 6 games, not 7, and we've won 3 and lost 3.

The 3 defeats being in the last 4 games.

Our form and results under LJ are very much on the decline.

Up's and down's.

Eitherway, I think anyone with half a brain cell can agree you cannot judge a manager on 6 games?

Especially a manager who takes over a team in the bottom 3 who had taken 2 points from their last 6 games.

[Selred]

20 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

He kept QPR in the Championship and they were champions the following season

The league was very close then. By winning his first two games they moved from 20th to 15th! 

[Alessandro]

As an aside, I just cannot believe how quickly the anti LJ brigade have come out the woodwork with such vitriol.

6 games in. Crazy, absolutely crazy. People complain about loyalty and 'short-termism' in football, well I think football fans are slowly becoming some of the worst culprits in the game.

[Andy082005]

57 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Three of our next four games are against teams either level with or below us, and two are at home. Realistically, we could end up with 6 points minimum. You can bet your life Thatch35, Andy082005 et all will go strangely quiet if we do.

Unless, of course, beating teams around you doesn't count, as it's being used as a stick to beat LJ with from the usual suspects.

Not at all. Again...more myths and lies to fit agendas.

I have always been the type of person/poster to hold my hands up if in wrong. And I have always passed credit on to players or managers when it's deserved.

I will happily come on here and make a public apology if I'm wrong and he keeps us up and we start progressing as a club!   In fact, I'll openly come on here and apologise if he just keeps us up. 

[Jack Dawe]

1 hour ago, Robin1988 said:

Some people are determined their prophecies will be proved right. Keeping an open mind doesn't require this to happen, but some posters are too stubborn and seem to possess some kind of complex.

 

For the record, I was against LJ's appointment. But keeping an open mind helps you to know what you're talking about and not be blinded by a need to be right.

 

 

46 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

 The thing about keeping an open mind is you don't write off things before they happen. 

I totally agree with you about keeping an open mind about things, and that being right is so seductive. Who doesn't like to be right?! But it is very much human nature to abhor uncertainty, and this sort of thing - a nip and tuck relegation fight - is excruciating, not knowing what the outcome will be.

We all have different tolerance levels of this uncertainty. Everyone wants us to stay up, everyone would be delighted if LJ kept us up and went on to be wildly successful here next season. If the worst happens though, "being right" about LJ provides some consolation.

But in the meantime, before we know for certain, and while we wait, while we endure this unbearable uncertainty and not-knowing, for some people the conviction that LJ is too inexperienced/ Warnock was the answer/ SL is to blame etc, coming to a firm conclusion one way or the other brings some relief, for now. This is more bearable for some than "keeping an open mind." As I see it.

Everyone on here wants us to stay up, wants us to succeed. Something we can lose sight of at times.

[Jack Dawe]

11 hours ago, spudski said:

 

On the footballing side, I feel there are a couple players who are not playing to instruction...LJ keeps referring to this.

I get the impression LF is one...all the skill in the world...but little understanding of playing quick one touch football.

He's like the greedy kid in the playground, who looks like a good player....but in reality...no end product.

If this is right, spud, then the obvious response is to drop Luke to the bench. Show him who's boss, that no one is bigger than the team, everyone needs to earn their shirt, etc etc.

That's the old-school managerial move. If you're right, I wonder why he hasn't been demoted (beyond the obvious lack of replacement and his excellent corners)?

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

13 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

A lot of the above just isn't true. 

And it's pretty clear what camp you're in when @Thatch35 likes your post!

5 others liked it as well!

[Nogbad the Bad]

10 hours ago, BCFC Jordan said:

I was against Cotterill's sacking but I supported LJ's appointment, so there's no bias from my point of things.

 

I found us far more entertaining using the 3-5-2 system. We're just like the rest of the teams in the division now, no identity but significantly worse than them. If SC would have got his signings we'd have been different from the rest and the success would have come also.

 

I just don't enjoy supporting City anymore. It's been such an awful season. I shouldn't let it be the case but I just can't let go of the past. No SC, no 3-5-2, no JET - this season has just been a chore and all my enthusiasm has waned. Even our recent run of wins wasn't exciting, the identity's gone.

 

LJ has a big job on his hands. And like some of his predecessors, the question will hang over him, whether it's too soon or too big a task. Even experienced managers can't get success at this club, we're just badly ran and managers face an impossible task bringing Bristol City success at Championship level.

I do agree with this Jordan.

Cotterill's stated aim was for City to make their mark in the Championship this time by taking the game to our opponents and playing a system of attacking and entertaining football. He knew that City's history at this level showed that trying to survive by playing negative, inhibited football would only lead to two or three seasons of desperate struggle before eventual inevitable relegation.

For whatever reason the players needed for that system to be successful in this division didn't arrive and we struggled not only with signings but results wise as well, It must be said though that many of the players since signed were due to sign for SC anyway and imo his record of fighting relegation - never having been manager of a relegated side -  should have given everyone confidence he would keep City up by hook or by crook, and then improve the squad enough to make his system far more successful next season.

So there was real hope for us fans that City would become a club noted in the Championship for playing attacking and successful football - as you say a club with a really positive identity - while gradually establishing ourselves season by season in the Championship in an expansive way that made supporting BCFC at this level enjoyable.

With the appointment of LJ we will probably just about stay up, but what then? I have no confidence at all of real progression for this club in the Championship now and without our own philosophy and identity it will be just a matter of time, possibly even next season, before we take the drop.

In the meantime we'll generally struggle, entertainment and optimism will be sparse, wins few and far between, with fan enthusiasm and attendance inevitably dropping. We can hope for nothing more than to be at best mediocre in all respects at Championship level while our annual aim will be little more than avoiding relegation while playing the scrappy and unadventurous football required to achieve it.

Not a great prospect, especially as we've all sat through the same with ever decreasing enthusiasm before.

For me the hope for something extraordinary with Bristol City genuinely doing something different with a determination to really make their mark this time has gone. Without it we are a comparatively poorly financed club with nothing different to offer tactically who will usually be outgunned by far better equipped opponents leading to only one conclusion.

The hope of real progression and exciting football at AG went with Cotterill's sacking and it's all a massive anti climax and hugely disappointing.

 

[Robin1988]

1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

But if we all kept an open mind, there would be no scope for debate. I don't think anyone's launching a personal attack on LJ, but his lack of Championship experience IS a concern with ten games to go.

You can have plenty of debate, but not with people so reactionary as to rule on a manager's abilities after six games. Think of all the good players we'd have lost if we did that to them.

31 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Not at all. Again...more myths and lies to fit agendas.

I have always been the type of person/poster to hold my hands up if in wrong. And I have always passed credit on to players or managers when it's deserved.

I will happily come on here and make a public apology if I'm wrong and he keeps us up and we start progressing as a club!   In fact, I'll openly come on here and apologise if he just keeps us up. 

Well fair play to you. But you must admit your posts - whether you have seen the game or not - suddenly ramp up against LJ after a loss, whereas after a win we haven't heard a peep from you about him. Not just the game, but about him.

@Jack Dawe brilliantly put.

[cidered abroad]

The safety points has now been raised from the 46 I predicted last week to 49. That is now 4 wins for us.

Can we do it? I'm not sure now that we can. But then, I'm not sure that we will not.

[ciderbeans]

Quite simply, those who are bashing the club are partly right, just not necessarily voicing it in te right way.

to put simple facts on the table, we are in a relegation fight for many reasons.

 

1. A shocking couple of transfer windows, mainly the summer in which it was the best time in our history to recruit.

2. No matter how bad things got, the change in manager and they way we do things isn't going to be successful over night and in my opinion has come too late or shouldn't have happened at all.

3. The players simply aren't good enough. We don't have te quality to compete. If your going to do something, you simply get your head down and do all you can to achieve it, no excuses. Our players simply don't have the quality, ability or metal to compete in this league, hence why they can't hold on to games and always fold. 

4. The way things are going, relegation is looking very possible and should this occur, we will lose Flint, Bryan, kodjia, smith et al. This would be a huge backward step but people need to realise it is a realistic possibility due to the inability of staff and players to do the jobs they are paid to do. That also refers to the board for the simple fact they haven't got a much needed striker within the last God knows how many months.

 

if this can all be turned around, great, and I hope for the sake of the club it does, but it's not looking pretty right now 

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

13 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Nobody has to supply a name, we had from the January 2015 window to sign a striker, when we were top of the league and our stock was high, that's 14 months ago, if there is nobody at our club capable of unearthing another striker in 14 months something is badly wrong somewhere.

Agreed!   And have you noticed how quiet Mark Ashton has gone after his initial appointment.  I remember him telling Twentypence about the Clubs ambitions, about obviously going back to L1??????

[Andy082005]

11 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

You can have plenty of debate, but not with people so reactionary as to rule on a manager's abilities after six games. Think of all the good players we'd have lost if we did that to them.

Well fair play to you. But you must admit your posts - whether you have seen the game or not - suddenly ramp up against LJ after a loss, whereas after a win we haven't heard a peep from you about him. Not just the game, but about him.

@Jack Dawe brilliantly put.

I didn't criticise after the Brighton game. I thought Brighton were an excellent championship side. We were beaten by a team who will be top 6 next season. 

I thought we did OK against Ipswich, but we're abysmal  against Cardiff and last night was even worse.  Our performances are steadily getting worse and worse.

I have nothing against Johnson personally. I'm just livid he was appointed in the first place. I get fed up with comments from some on here that think posters like me want him to fail, and "love it" when he does.

Bullsh*t.

And as I said....I would happily come on here, hold my hand up and apologise if I'm wrong. I would love to do that! Because it would mean we are still a championship club!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

52 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Up's and down's.

Eitherway, I think anyone with half a brain cell can agree you cannot judge a manager on 6 games?

Especially a manager who takes over a team in the bottom 3 who had taken 2 points from their last 6 games.

Nice re writing of history, actually under Pemberton and Elliott it was 7 points from 4 games and not in the bottom 3.

You are however correct about judging a manager in such a short period of time, but perhaps just perhaps Pemberton and Elliott should have been left in place until the end of the season.

Stats can be confusing of course they can for instance, 3 wins and 3 draws looks ok but 3 defeats in the last 4 games doesn't look quite so good and defeat on Saturday will look even worse of course.

 

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

22 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

You can have plenty of debate, but not with people so reactionary as to rule on a manager's abilities after six games. Think of all the good players we'd have lost if we did that to them.

Well fair play to you. But you must admit your posts - whether you have seen the game or not - suddenly ramp up against LJ after a loss, whereas after a win we haven't heard a peep from you about him. Not just the game, but about him.

@Jack Dawe brilliantly put.

2 losses!

[Redtucks]

49 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

Everyone on here wants us to stay up, wants us to succeed.

That is true.

However, I'm not convinced that everyone on here want's LJ to succeed.

 

 

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

9 minutes ago, Redtucks said:

That is true.

However, I'm not convinced that everyone on here want's LJ to succeed.

 

 

 

Don't try to make this an LJ thing it is no different to when SC got the job and would be the same if Jesus Christ got the job.

in fact NickJ called it correct the only sure thing is LJ will be sacked one day and he may or may not save us from relegation, he may take us to the next level and he may totally screw up, but he will be sacked one day.

 

 

[Robin1988]

17 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

I have nothing against Johnson personally. I'm just livid he was appointed in the first place. I get fed up with comments from some on here that think posters like me want him to fail, and "love it" when he does.

I don't think anyone wants us to fail, that would be ridiculous. But there is a certain smugness (not aiming this at you) from some quarters when we do badly, an 'I told you so' sort of thing.

[Nogbad the Bad]

47 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Up's and down's.

Eitherway, I think anyone with half a brain cell can agree you cannot judge a manager on 6 games?

Especially a manager who takes over a team in the bottom 3 who had taken 2 points from their last 6 games.

I haven't done that. I was not in favour of LJ's appointment, and retain severe doubts, but will back him in the genuine hope he proves me wrong and does well.

However there's no doubt LJ does have everything to prove to many fans - and rightly so - and by the nature of our precarious position in the league there is no alternative than that he proves himself quickly. He was presumably brought in by the board as someone thought more likely to get results and keep City up than a manager with 20 years experience who had never been relegated, so he and the board knew exactly what expectations were and what was required.

So, in the short term at least, that is what he will be judged on, and I, like many others will reserve judgement until the end of the season.

Declining performances and results do not augur well at this moment, but of course, my main point in answering your post was to point out it was extremely over generous for you to apparently give him credit for the win at Charlton before he'd even taken a training session.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

I don't think anyone wants us to fail, that would be ridiculous. But there is a certain smugness (not aiming this at you) from some quarters when we do badly, an 'I told you so' sort of thing.

What the same smugness when SC did badly? or a different smugness?. 

There is absolutely no difference to the way SC or LJ is being treated by certain people, LJ is not a special case, whoever would have got the job would have had their detractors win, lose or draw.

[Robin1988]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

What the same smugness when SC did badly? or a different smugness?. 

There is absolutely no difference to the way SC or LJ is being treated by certain people, LJ is not a special case, whoever would have got the job would have had their detractors win, lose or draw.

No absolutely the same. It's always been there and always will. People digging up threads from years ago to turn it into a dick-measuring contest.

[Red-Robbo]

I think if last night and last weekend taught us anything it's that we really miss Korey Smith and haven't got any quality in depth in the squad. The latter is the fault of the last manager. We were lucky to get through the promotion season with very few injuries or suspensions and when Wilbs was out we rarely have brought a more successful loan player in than Matt Smith. This season that luck ran out.

I do wonder however if Lee has the ability to fire up players after a disappointing defeat that Cotterill had. I wasn't at the match, but it sounds like a few heads had dropped.