Does Little Lee Really Know What He is Doing

[cityloyal473]

3 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

The intention with Engvall was to use him sparingly until Januaryish while he adapted to playing English football and to the country, we will see more of him after that.

 

How can he adapt to English football if he's not playing?

[JamesBCFC]

2 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

How can he adapt to English football if he's not playing?

I must be imaging this thing called "training" that players do all week, a part of which includes training matches.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

The intention with Engvall was to use him sparingly until Januaryish while he adapted to playing English football and to the country, we will see more of him after that.

 

Amazed people can't seem to grasp the simple concept that there's a possibility we bought him for the future - not for now. He's been injured and has plenty to adapt to.

Genuinely justified criticism is the club failing to sign a first team ready striker to replace Kodjia and compete with Abraham. However it's spun or dressed up, the fact is that that's one crucial area we failed to strengthen in. Where did we expect goals to come from is Abraham had a lean spell?

[cityloyal473]

2 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I must be imaging this thing called "training" that players do all week, a part of which includes training matches.

 

I must be imagining this thing called "match practice and match fitness" which you don't get from training.

[JamesBCFC]

3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Amazed people can't seem to grasp the simple concept that there's a possibility we bought him for the future - not for now. He's been injured and has plenty to adapt to.

Genuinely justified criticism is the club failing to sign a first team ready striker to replace Kodjia and compete with Abraham. However it's spun or dressed up, the fact is that that's one crucial area we failed to strengthen in. Where did we expect goals to come from is Abraham had a lean spell?

Valid point, but I think the formation we play is one that enables goals to come from others. We play very centrally with lots of close interplay which means- when playing well- we often end up with lots of players in shooting positions, however we are very guilty of overplaying it. More players should be pitching in with goals imo, look at other clubs who use 4-2-3-1 with relative success and they have many who chip in with goals.

One example is Arsenal where their top scorers have 8 goals (Walcott and Sanchez) but they also have Ozil on 7 and Oxlade-Chamberlain on 5, Giroud on 4 and 10 more goals from another 5 players.

If you look at our scorers we have Tammy on 12 and then nobody close, our next highest is Reid and Tomlin with 4 apiece, Wilbs with 3 and a handful of players with 1 goal.

If Tammy had scored 5 less but those 5 were shared between Reid and Tomlin and one for Wilbs then there wouldn't be such a worry would there? Tammy on 7, Reid and Tomlin on 6 and Wilbs on 4 doesn't look too bad. 

For me the solution is to try and overplay it less. At each game I find several times where I see our players opt for a pass to try and find Tammy when they are in a good place to shoot. 

[JamesBCFC]

14 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

I must be imagining this thing called "match practice and match fitness" which you don't get from training.

Training matches don't give match practice then? 

He also has been getting the odd run out in the reserves, but let's not forget it's not actually been very long since he got back from his second injury, so of course opportunities have been limited.

[Phileas Fogg]

5 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Valid point, but I think the formation we play is one that enables goals to come from others. We play very centrally with lots of close interplay which means- when playing well- we often end up with lots of players in shooting positions, however we are very guilty of overplaying it. More players should be pitching in with goals imo, look at other clubs who use 4-2-3-1 with relative success and they have many who chip in with goals.

One example is Arsenal where their top scorers have 8 goals (Walcott and Sanchez) but they also have Ozil on 7 and Oxlade-Chamberlain on 5, Giroud on 4 and 10 more goals from another 5 players.

If you look at our scorers we have Tammy on 12 and then nobody close, our next highest is Reid and Tomlin with 4 apiece, Wilbs with 3 and a handful of players with 1 goal.

If Tammy had scored 5 less but those 5 were shared between Reid and Tomlin and one for Wilbs then there wouldn't be such a worry would there? Tammy on 7, Reid and Tomlin on 6 and Wilbs on 4 doesn't look too bad. 

For me the solution is to try and overplay it less. At each game I find several times where I see our players opt for a pass to try and find Tammy when they are in a good place to shoot. 

It's just a depth thing for me. Having two players who could potentially be 15-20 goal strikers makes us a better side than just having one. I think the system is partly imposed on us by a lack of personnel, if we had two dangerous strikers (like Kodjia) I think we'd try other systems more often.

[JamesBCFC]

4 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Valid point, but I think the formation we play is one that enables goals to come from others. We play very centrally with lots of close interplay which means- when playing well- we often end up with lots of players in shooting positions, however we are very guilty of overplaying it. More players should be pitching in with goals imo, look at other clubs who use 4-2-3-1 with relative success and they have many who chip in with goals.

One example is Arsenal where their top scorers have 8 goals (Walcott and Sanchez) but they also have Ozil on 7 and Oxlade-Chamberlain on 5, Giroud on 4 and 10 more goals from another 5 players.

If you look at our scorers we have Tammy on 12 and then nobody close, our next highest is Reid and Tomlin with 4 apiece, Wilbs with 3 and a handful of players with 1 goal.

If Tammy had scored 5 less but those 5 were shared between Reid and Tomlin and one for Wilbs then there wouldn't be such a worry would there? Tammy on 7, Reid and Tomlin on 6 and Wilbs on 4 doesn't look too bad. 

For me the solution is to try and overplay it less. At each game I find several times where I see our players opt for a pass to try and find Tammy when they are in a good place to shoot. 

@Phileas Fogg just adding onto this, but our shots stats from our website show a huge drop in number of shots taken. 

Tammy and Tomlin have 15 and 14 respectively, Reid has 10, our next highest number of shots taken in the league is Flint, Wilbs and Patterson, all with only 5 all season. This just shows what I mean by people trying to overplay it and find someone instead of actually having a go themself.

[JamesBCFC]

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It's just a depth thing for me. Having two players who could potentially be 15-20 goal strikers makes us a better side than just having one. I think the system is partly imposed on us by a lack of personnel, if we had two dangerous strikers (like Kodjia) I think we'd try other systems more often.

Don't disagree with that, and I think we will see more of that after January when Engvall is ready (and new player if that happens).

 

[ScottishRed]

7 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Harsh. we're a good championship team and i think thats what most rational fans know we are.

What are your honest expectations of this team/staff?

A 'good' championship team gets more than 4 points out of a possible 24! that is relegation form.

I don't care who the manager is or who the club is that form is a concern.

right now I don't see what is being done to address it, there are changes being made every week but to no avail.

i don't think he knows his best team and I think he believes his tactical genius will get us points but that is not the case recently.

we needed a goal late on yesterday and he brings on a 37 year old!

 

[Phileas Fogg]

11 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

A 'good' championship team gets more than 4 points out of a possible 24! that is relegation form.

I don't care who the manager is or who the club is that form is a concern.

right now I don't see what is being done to address it, there are changes being made every week but to no avail.

i don't think he knows his best team and I think he believes his tactical genius will get us points but that is not the case recently.

we needed a goal late on yesterday and he brings on a 37 year old!

 

What can be done to 'address' it though other than experimenting with tactics and players? We don't have enough forward options at the club so we're reliant on Abraham who's only just 19.

What would you do to 'address' it seeing as we can't bring anyone in at the moment?

[Strawberry2157.]

It would help if he played the players he bought in the last transfer window before claiming he needs 3 more! 

When he was appointed I said he'd be gone by Christmas! He's Showing he's a little out of his depth at the moment. 

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, Strawberry2157. said:

It would help if he played the players he bought in the last transfer window before claiming he needs 3 more! 

When he was appointed I said he'd be gone by Christmas! He's Showing he's a little out of his depth at the moment. 

Which players do you mean? To my mind they've all played pretty regularly (injuries permitting) besides Engvall, Ekstrand and Moore.

[Redtucks]

50 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

we needed a goal late on yesterday and he brings on a 37 year old!

 

We needed a goal late on against Blackburn and he brought on the same 37 year old!

.....and he did the same against Derby!!!

 

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, ScottishRed said:

A 'good' championship team gets more than 4 points out of a possible 24! that is relegation form.

I don't care who the manager is or who the club is that form is a concern.

right now I don't see what is being done to address it, there are changes being made every week but to no avail.

i don't think he knows his best team and I think he believes his tactical genius will get us points but that is not the case recently.

we needed a goal late on yesterday and he brings on a 37 year old!

 

The same 37 year old that was brought on late against Derby and won us a point? The same one who made a big impact when he came on against Villa? By any chance was it the same one who managed the game to perfection late on against Leeds, helping secure the win, and did the same against Ipswich last season? Just wondering.

We have got 24 points from 17, over a season that's 65 points, a total that finished 9th last season.

Just so we are clear and facts are being used, in our last 8 league games we have picked up 10 points, this form over a whole season gets 57-58 points, which last year was a 14th place finish.

So, using those facts I think it's pretty clear that we are either an average Championship team, or an above average or "good" Championship team. And just to be clear, in neither instance is it relegation form.

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

What can be done to 'address' it though other than experimenting with tactics and players? We don't have enough forward options at the club so we're reliant on Abraham who's only just 19.

What would you do to 'address' it seeing as we can't bring anyone in at the moment?

It doesn't matter, over the last 8 league games (24 available points) we have actually accrued 2.5 times as many points as the doomsayers claim, whatever counter is provided or in your case question of what can be done will just be met with a compliant or "it's not my job to sort it out" rather than an actual answer.

[Lanterne Rouge]

My opinion for what it`s worth is that last season we didn`t spend one single day in the top half of the table and the vast majority of it in the bottom three. This season we haven`t dropped below half way once up to now.

That to me is progress and I`m happy with that. As others have said, this season we`re losing by the odd goal when we do get beat whereas last season we`d have got mullered 4-0 or 4-1.

[LondonBristolian]

The bottom line is we need long-term thinking at the club. LJ has always said he needs 3 transfer windows (including the 1 just gone) so, as long as we don't slide into serious relegation trouble, I'm happy to see this season as long-term planning and judge on next season.

This summer we bought in a lot of players (9 or 10, was it in the end?).  Of those there are surely 3 unqualified successes (Abraham, Tomlin and Hordur), 3 who were openly bought for the future and it's a bit early to judge (Moore, Lucic, O'Dowda and Engvall) and, of the rest, Brownhill and O'Neill have been quality additions.  It's only really Matthews who doesn't look where he was last season and Paterson and Esktrand (who was a free) who the jury is out on.  (I'd accept including Engvall in that category too given how much we paid for him but LJ was always clear he was one for the future).

And indeed we're on a poor run and I'd accept we haven't played all that well since 1 October.  But nonetheless, of  our seven defeats of this season, QPR and Cardiff were disappointing but there's no disgrace in losing to Birmingham, Newcastle, Norwich, Brighton or Sheffield Wednesday (although the manner of our defeat was desperately depressing)

But the bottom line is we all know we're lacking in certain areas and, to be fair to  Johnson, I don't think he could fix everything in one window.  Matthews hasn't worked out and we need a right-back, I don't think either Fielding or O'Donnell are a long-term goalkeeping solution, we need at least one more striker, perhaps two and our attacking players are not offering enough in terms of goals or assists.  With O'Dowda that's understandable given his age and Tomlin and Reid are showing more than the rest but Paterson and Freeman in particular need to shape up - I know Freeman hasn't been playing of late but this is a long-term thing - or alternatives need to be brought in.

At the moment I feel we're limping towards January.  Some of our away games between now and then look daunting but are not impossible (I think Reading and Huddersfield are in over-inflated positions but are still tough sides whilst Wolves and Ipswich are maybe a bit better than their positions suggest) but we really need to make the most of our home games, keep getting enough points and strengthen in January. 

But nonetheless I think the simple question has to be "are we in a stronger position than when LJ took over?" and I think the answer to that question is extremely obvious. I  believe he's planning for the long-term so I'm happy to give him this season and judge him next year. 

[Guest]

rod12 returns 

[HoldenBall]

2 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

A 'good' championship team gets more than 4 points out of a possible 24! that is relegation form.

I don't care who the manager is or who the club is that form is a concern.

right now I don't see what is being done to address it, there are changes being made every week but to no avail.

i don't think he knows his best team and I think he believes his tactical genius will get us points but that is not the case recently.

we needed a goal late on yesterday and he brings on a 37 year old!

 

You literally just answered your own question.

[robin_unreliant]

32 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

My opinion for what it`s worth is that last season we didn`t spend one single day in the top half of the table and the vast majority of it in the bottom three. This season we haven`t dropped below half way once up to now.

That to me is progress and I`m happy with that. As others have said, this season we`re losing by the odd goal when we do get beat whereas last season we`d have got mullered 4-0 or 4-1.

Agree with this overall.

It seems to me that we have done ok with strengthening the team defensively and don't look like getting tanked against the best teams. Magnusson and O'Neil have helped with that and Moore looks to be a good signing.

Our new attacking players (O'Dowda, Patterson, Engvall who cost supposedly £4-5m combined) haven't really delivered though. They are all relatively young so may yet come good. In some ways it is easier to find good defensive players on a budget. Real quality up front costs money (luckily we got Tammy on loan) so we may struggle to find players who can create and score regularly on our budget. Can't really blame LJ for that.

[Strawberry2157.]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Which players do you mean? To my mind they've all played pretty regularly (injuries permitting) besides Engvall, Ekstrand and Moore.

I didn't go to Barnsley, but in the previous 3 games before yesterday, Cardiff, QPR & Brighton we had in total 1 shot an target and we have a (reported) £2mill striker on the bench... For the entire first half yesterday Tammy was being fouled even before he got the ball... surely trying a different option when we had all the momentum in the 2nd half was worth a try!!!

[JamesBCFC]

4 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

The intention with Engvall was to use him sparingly until Januaryish while he adapted to playing English football and to the country, we will see more of him after that.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Strawberry2157. said:

I didn't go to Barnsley, but in the previous 3 games before yesterday, Cardiff, QPR & Brighton we had in total 1 shot an target and we have a (reported) £2mill striker on the bench... For the entire first half yesterday Tammy was being fouled even before he got the ball... surely trying a different option when we had all the momentum in the 2nd half was worth a try!!!

 

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, Strawberry2157. said:

I didn't go to Barnsley, but in the previous 3 games before yesterday, Cardiff, QPR & Brighton we had in total 1 shot an target and we have a (reported) £2mill striker on the bench... For the entire first half yesterday Tammy was being fouled even before he got the ball... surely trying a different option when we had all the momentum in the 2nd half was worth a try!!!

So just Engvall you mean then. I've posted about him quite a lot, his value isn't that relevant really - in our context anyway. The days of £2m being an extraordinary amount of money are fading, in football terms at our level it's pretty normal to pay for a player.

Given our profitable summer, we have the excess funds to take a couple of risks.. investments in the future etc.. he's one of those. I too would've liked to have seen more of him so far but there's probably a good reason why we haven't. Fitness, whether he's ready.. whatever

[Redandy]

15 hours ago, longyears said:

I had my doubts on appointment and sadly still do - last 5/6 games are relegation form. Anyone else think likewise ?

The constant team changes worry me and I cannot fathom why he might not know his best team plus the non use of Engvall is beyond me.

[Phileas Fogg]

12 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

As with the young players we bought, LJ is also learning. He will make mistakes too. Recent form is awful, and we looked disjointed and clueless against Brighton. But it is part of the ride we are taking. He needs time and patience. I will judge him next season when he has learnt the Championship and had a chance to really shape the squad. we miss Kodja far more than many thought too. 

Of course, I was amazed at the naivety from some. We were clearly going to miss a forward of his invention, creativity and ability. Abraham, although a good player in his own right, is a) only here for a year so not his replacement 2) only 19 so it's unfair to have that much expectation on him.

[ChippenhamRed]

2 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

A 'good' championship team gets more than 4 points out of a possible 24! that is relegation form.

I don't care who the manager is or who the club is that form is a concern.

right now I don't see what is being done to address it, there are changes being made every week but to no avail.

i don't think he knows his best team and I think he believes his tactical genius will get us points but that is not the case recently.

we needed a goal late on yesterday and he brings on a 37 year old!

 

Our last 8 games have yielded 10 points. W3 D1 L4. That's mid table form, and we're a mid table team.

So your entire argument is based on completely wrong information.

Can people please start checking their facts before spouting nonsense to support an argument.

[Gert Mare]

We had a great start to the season. Tammy proved to be a revelation and nobody was expecting it. Good job too as we would most definitely be in a relegation scrap without his goals! However, we are not in a relegation scrap and everyone would have taken avoiding a relegation dog fight before the season started, so we have to put things into perspective. Although I think that we will never have an opportunity to push for promotion again with someone of Tammy's quality in the side we have to look at the team as a whole and they are not top 6 players at this moment in time. There is plenty of youth and this is a work in progress.

We get carried away as fans, and then start knee jerking about firing the manager when we lose a few games.

No to sacking Lee, but a reality check to fans. We will probably end up around 15th, but we ain't going down! That is progress!

 

 

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

The same 37 year old that was brought on late against Derby and won us a point? The same one who made a big impact when he came on against Villa? By any chance was it the same one who managed the game to perfection late on against Leeds, helping secure the win, and did the same against Ipswich last season? Just wondering.

We have got 24 points from 17, over a season that's 65 points, a total that finished 9th last season.

Just so we are clear and facts are being used, in our last 8 league games we have picked up 10 points, this form over a whole season gets 57-58 points, which last year was a 14th place finish.

So, using those facts I think it's pretty clear that we are either an average Championship team, or an above average or "good" Championship team. And just to be clear, in neither instance is it relegation form.

 

4 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Our last 8 games have yielded 10 points. W3 D1 L4. That's mid table form, and we're a mid table team.

So your entire argument is based on completely wrong information.

Can people please start checking their facts before spouting nonsense to support an argument.

Great minds @ChippenhamRed, though you were a little more polite.

[Nogbad the Bad]

10 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

My expectations are that we do not lose five and draw one in seven games. That is not top two, pray-off or comfortable mid table form is it?

Nogbad; Signed thirteen but of the team that finished today's match, eight were with us last season either permanently or on loan. And seven started. What can we read from that?

Whatever we individually want to.

What do you read from that?