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We are doing better than this time 12 months ago. Fact!


Jack Dawe

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8 minutes ago, Thatch35 said:

Problem is the 'plan' has failed - that's football. LJ has proven he isn't up to it, even with money and a strong squad.

This season was all about pushing on for a good top half finish and real progression. Instead this probably plan D - a relegation battle.

As it stands this season a total disaster even on moderate expectations.

Absolute rubbish.

This season you say...we've still got 19 games left to play.

The Club may say they are pushing for a top half finish...if you believe that, then that's your fault. They have to sell tickets....they aren't going to say we are trying to consolidate mid table are they?

Anyone who is realistic can see we don't have a 'Strong Squad' as you call it.

Our squad is very average in this league. On paper it screams lower to mid table...which is where I think we'll finish.

The money we have spent is not big in this league...and a great majority of it has been spent on players for the near future. That's not LJ's doing...that's the plan and blue print set up by the club, not him.

How you can say it's a total disaster is beyond me...we still have just under half a season left to play.

You need to stop booing and get some realisation into your head fella....maybe get off the zider and spend your money on a coaching course instead :laugh: ;-)

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9 minutes ago, spudski said:

Absolute rubbish.

This season you say...we've still got 19 games left to play.

The Club may say they are pushing for a top half finish...if you believe that, then that's your fault. They have to sell tickets....they aren't going to say we are trying to consolidate mid table are they?

Anyone who is realistic can see we don't have a 'Strong Squad' as you call it.

Our squad is very average in this league. On paper it screams lower to mid table...which is where I think we'll finish.

The money we have spent is not big in this league...and a great majority of it has been spent on players for the near future. That's not LJ's doing...that's the plan and blue print set up by the club, not him.

How you can say it's a total disaster is beyond me...we still have just under half a season left to play.

You need to stop booing and get some realisation into your head fella....maybe get off the zider and spend your money on a coaching course instead :laugh: ;-)

17 games left.

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2 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

Not if the 'whole team' bought aren't as good as the one before.

The credit for anything Kodjia related has to go to SC, he signed him and nurtured him into English football. LJ came along and told us he was still not good enough and had the football brain of a 17 year old.

Then sold him for 15 million!

If I remember rightly, Kodjia actually improved towards the end of last season after that comment.

It's true - he was tactically naive especially when he first arrived. Whether to say that publicly is another discussion, but I think that's just what LJ is like. He's honest and frank and perhaps sometimes lets things slip about his ideas and observations that most managers wouldn't. 

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1 hour ago, Thatch35 said:

LJ has done all the coaching courses and still hasn't a clue.

Sorry your deluded - So your content at the club's current situation and exactly where 'you think' city expected to be - Don't think so, top 10 at this point was the blue print.

How can you think the blue print was to just survive again? Any other club would of sacked LJ by now - as you say the blue print dosent include managers, so why is he still at the club messing up the clubs plan??

Oh - sorry thats right, the plan was to just survive. The only plan now is to survive relegation - much different to the plan back in August.

FOOL.

Yeah mate...simple isn't it.

Just spend a few million, stick a new manager in, second season up...and you'll guarantee yourself a top 10 position. It's so easy, every teams doing it.

Sod all those other teams that have far more money and experience and better players....they won't get in our way.

Villa, QPR, Wolves, Ipswich, Forest, Cardiff...yeah who are they...absolute pants...no idea, no experience, no money, no players...they'll not struggle either. :facepalm:

Of course we are Bristol City...the team with a minority of deluded supporters...who think an idea and blueprint will guarantee success. That any manager can pull it off.

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3 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

Not if the 'whole team' bought aren't as good as the one before.

The credit for anything Kodjia related has to go to SC, he signed him and nurtured him into English football. LJ came along and told us he was still not good enough and had the football brain of a 17 year old.

Then sold him for 15 million!

Way to spin it as usual... what he said was he had the tactical awareness of a 17 year old. He was constantly caught offside on numerous occasions so clearly he wasn't reading the game well.

Where did LJ say he wasn't good enough and in what context? Oh that's right he didn't say that.

And like PF said he improved towards the end of his time here so both the credit should goto LJ and SC

 

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48 minutes ago, Thatch35 said:

Problem is the 'plan' has failed - that's football. LJ has proven he isn't up to it, even with money and a strong squad.

This season was all about pushing on for a good top half finish and real progression. Instead this probably plan D - a relegation battle.

As it stands this season a total disaster even on moderate expectations.

Does the 'plan' end after 6 months? There was me thinking it was a long term plan whether LJ is here or not

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29 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

17 games left.

1bristol city: "17 games left." Fact.

Spud: "19 games left," opinion. An erroneous one. Deluded, even. "We still have just under half a season left to play." No, spud. NO! Just over one third of the season left, mate.

Come on spud, "get some realisation into your head, fella"

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Thatch35 said:

LJ has done all the coaching courses and still hasn't a clue.

Sorry your deluded - So your content at the club's current situation and exactly where 'you think' city expected to be - Don't think so, top 10 at this point was the blue print.

How can you think the blue print was to just survive again? Any other club would of sacked LJ by now - as you say the blue print dosent include managers, so why is he still at the club messing up the clubs plan??

Oh - sorry thats right, the plan was to just survive. The only plan now is to survive relegation - much different to the plan back in August.

FOOL.

I don't need to stick up for @spudski - he can do that himself. But you calling one of the posters who talks more sense than virtually anyone on here a "fool" - well it just made me think of that old saying, talk logic to a fool and he'll call you one.

We've spent somewhere around £11-12m on players this year. 

Championship teams have spent over £220m this season.

Think about that. There are over 6 players in the league more expensive than our squad.

Of course BCFC's hopes and aims are progression and a top 10 finish, but never once did they say that is a sure thing. They're a business and need to sell tickets so of course they say 'we're aiming high'. That is not the same as 'we WILL finish high'.

Why do people behave as if they've been cheated somehow if we don't achieve what we hope? More fool anyone who actually thought we'd get promoted this year.

So back to the £12m we've spent. Over half was on players that we hope will grow in the seasons to come, O'Dowda, Moore, Engvall, Brownhill, Magnusson.

They were NOT players brought in for instant success, so stop for a minute and think about what you club is actually trying to do.

Build.

And that sometimes means 1 step forwards, 2 steps back.

 

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30 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

If I remember rightly, Kodjia actually improved towards the end of last season after that comment.

It's true - he was tactically naive especially when he first arrived. Whether to say that publicly is another discussion, but I think that's just what LJ is like. He's honest and frank and perhaps sometimes lets things slip about his ideas and observations that most managers wouldn't. 

Kodjia improved after Tomlin arrived, I seem to remember.........

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9 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

Kodjia improved after Tomlin arrived, I seem to remember.........

The coaching staff spent a lot of time with JK, one on one,  educating him on positional play. I spoke to one of the coach's involved at the time. They wanted to keep his ability to do things 'differently', but within a structure and shape. Otherwise others couldn't read what he was going to do. Offside being his main problem...

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14 minutes ago, spudski said:

The coaching staff spent a lot of time with JK, one on one,  educating him on positional play. I spoke to one of the coach's involved at the time. They wanted to keep his ability to do things 'differently', but within a structure and shape. Otherwise others couldn't read what he was going to do. Offside being his main problem...

Thanks, spud. What are the coaching staff telling you about this season?

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3 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

Thanks, spud. What are the coaching staff telling you about this season?

I haven't spoken to any of them personally this season mate. Although I have good friends who do. Nothing out of the norm, apart from the usual gossip that's popped up on here, re bust ups. Which have all been settled. Happens at every club. Biggest thing is the progress of the youngsters in the academy. Everyone is happy with how that's going. But then that's not anything we wouldn't know already as it's been spoken about.

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12 hours ago, Alessandro said:

Well it depends if you count initial fees or 'rising to' and there is a certain amount of guess work with two undisclosed fees...either way not quite £16m banded around yet! ;)

And for balance, we didn't receive £15million for Kodjia as is being banded about.......it was £11million that may rise to £15million, based on what, nobody knows.....promotion this season? Unlikely as things stand.

Irrespective of balancing the books, we have brought in the equivalent of a new squad over the past 12 months costing in excess of £10million in initial transfer fees and yet we sit in 20th position, one place above and equal points with Burton Albion

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On 06/02/2017 at 09:37, Jack Dawe said:

A year ago, we had just drawn 0:0 at home to Birmingham.

We were third bottom, 29  GD -23  Pts 25

Today, we sit in 20th,   29  GD -3   Pts 31.

Progress! An improvement there for all to see. You can't argue with the facts folks! Although there's always the option of twisting the stats to fit your world view, which we can all do.

 

Following that Birmingham game, we went on a great little run, winning four in our next five beating Charlton, Ipswich, MK Dons and Forest. So, shall we revisit this thread in four or five games time? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not the improvement I was hoping for. Let's hope we go on a winning run nevertheless!  

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2 hours ago, Thatch35 said:

Problem is the 'plan' has failed - that's football. LJ has proven he isn't up to it, even with money and a strong squad.

This season was all about pushing on for a good top half finish and real progression. Instead this probably plan D - a relegation battle.

As it stands this season a total disaster even on moderate expectations.

Wasn't saying I liked the situation, just how I saw it.

Not disputing what you've said; my expectations were modest for this year - perhaps an improvement on point gained compared to last year (still possible tbh) and not having to look over our shoulders so much, with that giving us the chance to blood youngster.

All I'm saying is we're in it now, LJ looks fixed to stay, and that being the case we just need to hope we've got enough about us to stay up, then reassess in the summer.

Not ideal but it's where we are.

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1 hour ago, RedRaw said:

And for balance, we didn't receive £15million for Kodjia as is being banded about.......it was £11million that may rise to £15million, based on what, nobody knows.....promotion this season? Unlikely as things stand.

Irrespective of balancing the books, we have brought in the equivalent of a new squad over the past 12 months costing in excess of £10million in initial transfer fees and yet we sit in 20th position, one place above and equal points with Burton Albion

This is a fair comment. We've spent over £10m and Burton have spent no more than a few million, if that, I believe.

But with that same logic, Wolves have spent over £15m and are only 4 points better off. Villa have spent £50m odd (and have old head Steve Bruce) for 5 more more points than us. £7.5m a point.

So it seems things aren't quite as simple as you make out, money doesn't do 'everything' all the time.

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On 06/02/2017 at 10:19, Georgecreed123 said:

Not true really because we recouped a lot of that.  I'm happy with current position let's start to give LJ a chance before trying to find the negatives all the time. 

I'm fully behind what LJ is creating as many were up to October no doubt.  Let's try to all be a bit more positive shall we.... 

 

You're happy with the current position!? You're in the small minority.

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19 hours ago, Up The City! said:

There is a lot of short sighted people on here who clearly want instant success, but that's the problem with modern football but that's another discussion. 

This money has been more of a future investment rather than a here and now investment. The type of signings show that.

I think it would be more fair to revisit this in a year or two.

This football club has made tremendous progress this last year off the field. If you look at the points tallys ok there is a marginal improvement but I'm convinced the changes and investments we have made will see us better off in the long term. 

 

Football is flooded with people wanting instant success but when our owner said at the end of last season that we're hoping to push for the top end of the table, then people are going to up their expectations. It's great that we're building for the future but you could say that focusing on the future too much has put us in the position we're currently in.. a relegation battle. 

It looks like we've focussed on bringing in experience this January so hopefully, things will improve.

No doubt about how much things have improved off the pitch but let's hope things will improve on the pitch too. 

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1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

This is a fair comment. We've spent over £10m and Burton have spent no more than a few million, if that, I believe.

But with that same logic, Wolves have spent over £15m and are only 4 points better off. Villa have spent £50m odd (and have old head Steve Bruce) for 5 more more points than us. £7.5m a point.

So it seems things aren't quite as simple as you make out, money doesn't do 'everything' all the time.

Fair point back to you......money doesn't do everything all the time, so the art of success in football is to have a coach who is capable of getting the best out of what money you have spent, be it 100k or £20million.

It's pains me to say it but Dopey has spent very little over the past few years but has been able to get the most out of his squad who now sit relatively comfortably in L1 mid-table

For the money spent and the deemed quality of players available to him, LJ should be doing a hell of a lot better than he is..........he has been given the tools but is making a very bad job of it.

 

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3 hours ago, Alessandro said:

I don't need to stick up for @spudski - he can do that himself. But you calling one of the posters who talks more sense than virtually anyone on here a "fool" - well it just made me think of that old saying, talk logic to a fool and he'll call you one.

We've spent somewhere around £11-12m on players this year. 

Championship teams have spent over £220m this season.

Think about that. There are over 6 players in the league more expensive than our squad.

Of course BCFC's hopes and aims are progression and a top 10 finish, but never once did they say that is a sure thing. They're a business and need to sell tickets so of course they say 'we're aiming high'. That is not the same as 'we WILL finish high'.

Why do people behave as if they've been cheated somehow if we don't achieve what we hope? More fool anyone who actually thought we'd get promoted this year.

So back to the £12m we've spent. Over half was on players that we hope will grow in the seasons to come, O'Dowda, Moore, Engvall, Brownhill, Magnusson.

They were NOT players brought in for instant success, so stop for a minute and think about what you club is actually trying to do.

Build.

And that sometimes means 1 step forwards, 2 steps back.

 

A flaw in that policy if I may make the point, is that it is naive to expect players with international career aspirations to hang around for the club to get it right. Whatever people may think of them, ODowda, Moore, Engvall, and Magnusson will not want to be playing in the third division next season, and the existence of a contract means Jack Sh it nowadays, Furthermore their transfer values have gone south, plus I suspect even as young lads their wages may not be deemed sustainable on third division gates.

With respect therefore, planning for the future before you secure the here and now is a lousy strategy.

I don't know anyone who even thought we would be near the playoffs, Certainly it seemed clear to me that we were flying by our shirt tails earlier on even when we were winning. What I didn't expect was to see was this collapse and apparent inability on the part of Johnson to do anything about it.

I don't think i'm alone in that regard.

As for being in a better position than we were Feb 6th 2016 I tend to disagree. We had just removed a manager who unfortunately looked to be taking us down in 2016 but I don't see anything like that happening now.

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12 minutes ago, Full nelson said:

You want progression!! Look at how Huddersfield are taking the piss out of us, two equal teams last season and now look at the gap! 

 

Barnsley  a 40-45 % increase in points return (To date) compared to us

Preston. approx %30 increase in points return. ".    "

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14 minutes ago, RedRaw said:

Fair point back to you......money doesn't do everything all the time, so the art of success in football is to have a coach who is capable of getting the best out of what money you have spent, be it 100k or £20million.

It's pains me to say it but Dopey has spent very little over the past few years but has been able to get the most out of his squad who now sit relatively comfortably in L1 mid-table

For the money spent and the deemed quality of players available to him, LJ should be doing a hell of a lot better than he is..........he has been given the tools but is making a very bad job of it.

 

DC has done a great job over at the Rovers. He has however had almost 3 years in the hot seat, compared to LJ's 1 here, with us being in a much much tougher division. Actually there are many success stories of managers doing well with limited funds in the lower leagues, DC at Rovers, Rowett at Burton, Ainsworth at Wycombe, Tisdale at Exeter, Alexander at Fleetwood, Flitcroft at Bury (before the sack) to name a few. I think the step up to the championship and beyond however is a very tough one, and not often done. JFH being a good example of someone who won promotion at league 2 and struggled in the championship at QPR.

Regarding transfers, as I said, several of the players were signed for the future and not enough was done for the here and now until January when the club did their best to rectify that. The young ones need more time to develop and what has also cost us is the underachieving 'senior' players. Matthews and GON for example. Lee Tomlin, bless his heart, was always going to be a gamble given his past and has by all accounts brought more mental 'baggage' than expected and is underachieving on the pitch.

So is the squad underachieving? People will debate that of course, but yes we probably are. My argument would be though that it has gone undergone a huge overhaul, it's only been a 'squad' for 6 months or less now. Our league 1 championship team (that wasn't good enough for large parts of last season) is all but gone. So we need to give time for these new players to settle and gel. That is why I believe that if the time is given, providing the results don't continue to follow the pattern of the last few months, this squad will be turned around.

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41 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

A flaw in that policy if I may make the point, is that it is naive to expect players with international career aspirations to hang around for the club to get it right. Whatever people may think of them, ODowda, Moore, Engvall, and Magnusson will not want to be playing in the third division next season, and the existence of a contract means Jack Sh it nowadays, Furthermore their transfer values have gone south, plus I suspect even as young lads their wages may not be deemed sustainable on third division gates.

Well the flaw in your argument is that we are not in the third division. Nor even in the relegation zone of the second.

Were we to go down, will players stay or leave - well that's probably a debate for the summer. Even so, we wouldn't need to sell any of our 'future' players at a loss. 

With respect therefore, planning for the future before you secure the here and now is a lousy strategy.

As i've said elsewhere, you can certainly level some criticism at the club for this regarding summer transfers. Lot's of future investment with perhaps not enough focus on the now. Although January has attempted to rectify that and as I said elsewhere, some senior players have let us down this season.

I don't know anyone who even thought we would be near the playoffs, Certainly it seemed clear to me that we were flying by our shirt tails earlier on even when we were winning. What I didn't expect was to see was this collapse and apparent inability on the part of Johnson to do anything about it.

I don't think i'm alone in that regard.

It has been a horrid four months, no doubt. But the rot was stopped against a very good Wednesday team (who went on to beat our rivals Wigan away later that same week) and a hard fought must win game against a team in a contest that was always going to be low in quality, given the opposition and the stakes.

As for being in a better position than we were Feb 6th 2016 I tend to disagree. We had just removed a manager who unfortunately looked to be taking us down in 2016 but I don't see anything like that happening now.

The end of SC's City time here and the current position right now have been debated at length. The league position, of course is not much different, but we are still not in the relegation zone as we were then. And off the pitch we are many miles ahead of Feb 2016.

 

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17 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

DC has done a great job over at the Rovers. He has however had almost 3 years in the hot seat, compared to LJ's 1 here, with us being in a much much tougher division. Actually there are many success stories of managers doing well with limited funds in the lower leagues, DC at Rovers, Rowett at Burton, Ainsworth at Wycombe, Tisdale at Exeter, Alexander at Fleetwood, Flitcroft at Bury (before the sack) to name a few. I think the step up to the championship and beyond however is a very tough one, and not often done. JFH being a good example of someone who won promotion at league 2 and struggled in the championship at QPR.

Regarding transfers, as I said, several of the players were signed for the future and not enough was done for the here and now until January when the club did their best to rectify that. The young ones need more time to develop and what has also cost us is the underachieving 'senior' players. Matthews and GON for example. Lee Tomlin, bless his heart, was always going to be a gamble given his past and has by all accounts brought more mental 'baggage' than expected and is underachieving on the pitch.

So is the squad underachieving? People will debate that of course, but yes we probably are. My argument would be though that it has gone undergone a huge overhaul, it's only been a 'squad' for 6 months or less now. Our league 1 championship team (that wasn't good enough for large parts of last season) is all but gone. So we need to give time for these new players to settle and gel. That is why I believe that if the time is given, providing the results don't continue to follow the pattern of the last few months, this squad will be turned around.

Our title winning League 1 team had:

Korey Smith, Mark Little, Luke Freeman, Aaron Wilbraham, Luke Ayling, and Kieran Agard go straight into our 11 from the season before. That's over half the team. I didn't see them 'needing time to jel'. We were outstanding from the start.

Likewise Newcastle have signed tons and tons of players, again they didn't need time to jel. Leeds, Huddersfield the same. They're all just being managed better.

If we were, say, Sheffield Wednesday or Rotherham, coming down to AG last week and hearing the names Lee Tomlin, Tammy Abraham, Gary O'Neil amongst others in the tannoy our response would be ''how they **** are they fighting relegation?''

I honestly can't believe that we're still justifying LJ's position. The fact that people have to justify it so much over the past 4 months speaks volumes in itself.

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19 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Our title winning League 1 team had:

Korey Smith, Mark Little, Luke Freeman, Aaron Wilbraham, Luke Ayling, and Kieran Agard go straight into our 11 from the season before. That's over half the team. I didn't see them 'needing time to jel'. We were outstanding from the start.

Likewise Newcastle have signed tons and tons of players, again they didn't need time to jel. Leeds, Huddersfield the same. They're all just being managed better.

If we were, say, Sheffield Wednesday or Rotherham, coming down to AG last week and hearing the names Lee Tomlin, Tammy Abraham, Gary O'Neil amongst others in the tannoy our response would be ''how they **** are they fighting relegation?''

I honestly can't believe that we're still justifying LJ's position. The fact that people have to justify it so much over the past 4 months speaks volumes in itself.

Don't get me wrong, we are not doing well enough. Not at all. I'm not justifying LJ's position because it's not my job, nor am I, or even LJ or SL answerable to the fans. Whatever people think. They can do as they wish whether you like it or not. But that's a debate for another day!

I don't think you can compare us to Newcastle. Newcastle are a huge club with parachute payments, so yes they've signed plenty but of a MUCH higher quality than us, given that their wage bill will likely be three four times as much as ours. Not a good comparison. Not Leeds really, a bigger club that has been established in this league for years.

Huddersfield are this years exception of course, as to a certain extent are Barnsley even. I believe we should be competing with them at a minimum. 

But to counter those two clubs you have the Forest's, Villa's and Wolves who are massively underachieving given the size of their clubs and in some cases managers and spending.

 

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33 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Our title winning League 1 team had:

Korey Smith, Mark Little, Luke Freeman, Aaron Wilbraham, Luke Ayling, and Kieran Agard go straight into our 11 from the season before. That's over half the team. I didn't see them 'needing time to jel'. We were outstanding from the start.

Likewise Newcastle have signed tons and tons of players, again they didn't need time to jel. Leeds, Huddersfield the same. They're all just being managed better.

If we were, say, Sheffield Wednesday or Rotherham, coming down to AG last week and hearing the names Lee Tomlin, Tammy Abraham, Gary O'Neil amongst others in the tannoy our response would be ''how they **** are they fighting relegation?''

I honestly can't believe that we're still justifying LJ's position. The fact that people have to justify it so much over the past 4 months speaks volumes in itself.

Well to much sense for me! We jelled just fine early in the season. The jelling problem seems to have occurred after we had already jelled...hence decent start some good wins and performances being turned into the worst run in our history....Thus the problem is not jelling its something else

Some of the utter lunacy that appears in this thread really does make me wonder.

We are poor, we have been poor for months but not from the beginning of the season(We found a way to win). Comparisons with last season's position have to be put in the context that SC had been fired and we were winning games at the time under Pembo. The momentum has been all the other way this season.

SL is not happy or even a bit pleased with what has gone on. Trust Me! But the decision has been made to continue to back his man. However the idea he will remain manager if we dont pick up points in coming games is absurd. SL will fire him if he has to. He just doesn't think he has to yet....Hence the remark, Lee's job is as safe as it could possibly be under the current circumstances....Not the ringing endorsement some think

If anyone thinks SL/MA/The Board expected or even contemplated a relegation fight in their wildest dreams, is deluded! LJ knows it and has reverted to bringing in more power, which may be enough to keep us clear of the drop zone. We will see!

The policy of buying young and developing and selling at a profit will continue. However the teething problems are, we have too many kids, we only have L1 and L2 clubs to send players or abroad.

Hey Next season DiGirolamo, Moore etc maybe better for playing crap football in lower leagues, we will see. The ones here maybe better for a relegation battle we will see. But what is plane is none of the last five signings, for the first team, fit the policy. That's just to save the situation we find ourselves in!

See what is in front of you!

 

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