IDIOTS

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Jack Dawe said:

I think they might instead represent the current mentality of the club.

Players get a feel for these things. They know, they know where a club is "at." What is acceptable. Subliminally, this comment - representing as it surely does the attitude of the powers-that-be towards what they will be happy with this season - will have crept into everything. The sloppiness, the baffling substitutions, the seeming lack of effort, the "tiredness."

The more driven players might not be too happy. The less driven - possibly the ones @spudski was referring to recently - will be upset? And can we snap out of this and do better next season?

I haven't read any posts tonight JD...just logged on an saw this.

What I witnessed today was a team of players that looked 'lethargic' from kick off. They all looked knackered apart from Kent, who ran around a lot but offered very little.

I could tell something was wrong, so chose to focus on individual players for periods.

What became apparent watching everyone in the team, was they were reactive rather than proactive.

We used to be proactive...we made moves with intense energy, bags of it. We don't anymore.

I watched Reid...from the KO, he jogged towards the opposition when closing down and pressing. It was lacklustre...where as in the past it was with energy and intent.

It was the same throughout the team...completely lacklustre and lethargic.

We look physically and mentally shot. In fact the whole atmosphere at the ground felt the same way. It was like a punch drunk boxer out there.

I don't know why it is...I don't blame or point any fingers, because we don't know why.

It just felt like two teams playing mid table obscurity, with nothing to play for.

It didn't feel like a must win game.

My gut instinct, is that everything has just caught up with us.

Too many injuries, players playing with knocks, sometimes lack of form...Wright and Fielding's basic passing and kicking today...what the hell was that all about? The list goes on.

A season that promised so much and gave so much enjoyment...petering out and it felt absolutely awful today.

I'm not going to try and point fingers though...no point.

 

[shelts]

Two seasons in a row we’ve had massive dips . Can we expect the same next season ?

Cant out my finger on why it has happened !

[BigAl&Toby]

14 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

If you think the consensus in reaction to that embarrassment today is an overreaction then I’m afraid (IMHO) your talking through your ****

You are debating with people that saw the game and I’m sorry for anyone that looks a tad under the surface ,and beyond how many goals we score compared to the opposition , watches analytically will  notice really worrying signs and warning bells ringing

Bob’s right @JamesBCFC. Today the downwards slide continued. We were absolutely dire.

Piss poor team selection matched only by a piss poor performance. Many who ran out today should be hanging their heads. 

Instead i suspect they’ll be posting bollocks on Instagram....

So far from the glory nights of Man Utd and City.

Where has it gone so wrong? Or were we simply punching above our weight then?

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, shelts said:

Not the first and not the last . He was so bad today . I think it’s more frustration as was the booing at full time . Some of the blame must lay at the managers feet for a totally shambollic set up and inept performance 

Don’t know why Baker wasn’t selected but otherwise playing BW was madness in my view - Been rapidly and increasingly looking well out of sorts week by week

His second mistake as @Davefevs astutely pointed out was that LJ could have made changes at the interval and avoided the possibility - it was clear to anyone but the blind tha5 we should have made either tactical or personnnel changes 25 mins in so certainly at half time

Instead he let the demise further unwind to a point where it was embarrassing and uncomfortable to watch and unfortunately BW copped it off some

I fear any of a number of players being subbed at the same time may have got a similar reaction - it just happened to be BW

 

 

[stephenkibby.]

1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

Nowhere has anything suggested a thing about ambition I do or don't have.

I pointed out how over the top and negative this forum tends to be.

Try responding to what was said, rather than jumping to your own invented conclusions like a mindless dolt.

What's a Dolt?

[shelts]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Don’t know why Baker wasn’t selected but otherwise playing BW was madness in my view - Been rapidly and increasingly looking well out of sorts week by week

His second mistake as @Davefevs astutely pointed out was that LJ could have made changes at the interval and avoided the possibility - it was clear to anyone but the blind tha5 we should have made either tactical or personnnel changes 25 mins in so certainly at half time

Instead he let the demise further unwind to a point where it was embarrassing and uncomfortable to watch and unfortunately BW copped it off some

I fear any of a number of players being subbed at the same time may have got a similar reaction - it just happened to be BW

 

 

I think LJ is a little stubborn. It will prove his downfall 

[JamesBCFC]

22 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

If you think the consensus in reaction to that embarrassment today is an overreaction then I’m afraid (IMHO) your talking through your ****

You are debating with people that saw the game and I’m sorry for anyone that looks a tad under the surface ,and beyond how many goals we score compared to the opposition , watches analytically will  notice really worrying signs and warning bells ringing

I've said multiple times now that I'm talking in general, not specifically about today.

[BobBobSuperBob]

8 minutes ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Bob’s right @JamesBCFC. Today the downwards slide continued. We were absolutely dire.

Piss poor team selection matched only by a piss poor performance. Many who ran out today should be hanging their heads. 

Instead i suspect they’ll be posting bollocks on Instagram....

So far from the glory nights of Man Utd and City.

Where has it gone so wrong? Or were we simply punching above our weight then?

We made them look more dangerous than Man City today bud !!!!

They played through us repeatedly with an ease Man City got nowhere near

As much as anything I walked out the ground shocked 

Shocked how the same team can produce THAT having performed like they did against Derby , Man City ,  Man Utd , Wolves etc

Not sure ive ever seen such a contrast in every aspect of the game

Truly shocking and worrying

One of my real shocks today was what @spudski has correctly / astutely described above  - the complete lack of spirit / will / energy

it as truly shocking and an embarrassment today

Somethings’ amiss ‘

 - exactly what - damned if I know

[JamesBCFC]

6 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

What's a Dolt?

A stupid person.

[BobBobSuperBob]

5 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I've said multiple times now that I'm talking in general, not specifically about today.

And you keep talking about knee jerk reactions to individual games

What I’m saying and others are is that this is no knee jerk reaction

This has been coming gradually for 3 months - we’ve been poor and our points tally (although not great) actually masks that to some degree

Today was the culmination and was , as I’ve said a number of times as bad a performance in every aspect from attitude to technical elements that I’ve seen for many years at AG

Thats no knee jerk reaction James - for anyone with reasonable football nous there’s some alarm bells ringing

Do you believe b6 some natural progression we are going to revert to the team and performance of pre Xmas cos I tell you what I hoped and hoped but we are a million miles away from that right now and his muddled selections and recruitment when he has more toys to play with has sent 7s spiralling backwards

November and December doesn’t count for a lot right now going forward unless he realises why we were doing so well at that point and addresses it, and decisively

To date he’s shown no signs that he is doing so

[stephenkibby.]

5 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

A stupid person.

Ok they say you learn something everyday!!

I do consider myself as a dolt.

[spudski]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

We made them look more dangerous than Man City today bud !!!!

They played through us repeatedly with an ease Man City got nowhere near

As much as anything I walked out the ground shocked 

Shocked how the same team can produce THAT having performed like they did against Derby , Man City ,  Man Utd , Wolves etc

Not sure ive ever seen such a contrast in every aspect of the game

Truly shocking and worrying

One of my real shocks today was what @spudski has correctly / astutely described above  - the complete lack of spirit / will / energy

Somethings amiss

I really do think they are knackered BBSB.

Why else would Reid for example...just jog from minute 1, to close down the opposition when pressing? It was the same throughout the team. They did what they were asked, but at half the speed and energy, which allowed Brentford, time and space to play.

I even witnessed Bryan on two occasions, when a ball was on to him, signal with his hand, to not play the ball to him, and the player checked and went inside again. JB wasn't being closed down or tightly marked...in fact it was the right ball to play.

How do you try to work out why Wright and Fielding couldn't even do the basics right today? It was absolutely shocking to witness. Something was wrong.

As for the side picked...my gut instinct is that Baker and Pack must be carrying knocks, as well as Pato.

Unless LJ say's so, we won't know.

On a different note...did anyone else feel that the atmosphere at the ground reflected what we witnessed on the pitch?

From even before the team arrived on the pitch, it didn't feel like a crowd wanting to cheer on the lads in an important 'must win' game.

It felt like the fans have given up. Which is a shame...because even after today, we are still in with an outside chance of the play offs, which just goes to show how many other sides are having down turns as well.

Why...I have no idea. However...they all look knackered.

[Davefevs]

@BobBobSuperBob re post #65.

The guy sat next to me said that as much as it’s not good to see a sub after half hour, today was the day to do it.

[Davefevs]

@spudski knackered - quite possibly.  Lost the spark - almost definitely.

I know it’s not pro football, but I remember one horrible winter, when we had so many postponed, we ended up playing Sat, Tues, Thurs, Sat for a number of weeks.  We even played "Saturday football" on a Sunday during that period.  We all ended up going through the motions, the sharpness had gone.  Or at least that us how it felt.  From going from 9 games unbeaten, conceding only 2, we lost games 7-1, 5-1, against sides lower than us.

Watching City today took me back to that season.

[reddoh]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

I really do think they are knackered BBSB.

Why else would Reid for example...just jog from minute 1, to close down the opposition when pressing? It was the same throughout the team. They did what they were asked, but at half the speed and energy, which allowed Brentford, time and space to play.

I even witnessed Bryan on two occasions, when a ball was on to him, signal with his hand, to not play the ball to him, and the player checked and went inside again. JB wasn't being closed down or tightly marked...in fact it was the right ball to play.

How do you try to work out why Wright and Fielding couldn't even do the basics right today? It was absolutely shocking to witness. Something was wrong.

As for the side picked...my gut instinct is that Baker and Pack must be carrying knocks, as well as Pato.

Unless LJ say's so, we won't know.

On a different note...did anyone else feel that the atmosphere at the ground reflected what we witnessed on the pitch?

From even before the team arrived on the pitch, it didn't feel like a crowd wanting to cheer on the lads in an important 'must win' game.

It felt like the fans have given up. Which is a shame...because even after today, we are still in with an outside chance of the play offs, which just goes to show how many other sides are having down turns as well.

Why...I have no idea. However...they all look knackered.

after the first 15 mins I started to get the feeling we hadn't turned up , started watching individual players trying to work out what the problem was. only thing I could come up with was I now know why I am not a football manager.

[BobBobSuperBob]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@BobBobSuperBob re post #65.

The guy sat next to me said that as much as it’s not good to see a sub after half hour, today was the day to do it.

I would have Dave

I would have either changed tactically to counter their 4-1-4-1 and / or personnel (That’s dependent on Pack and Bakers fitness as Spudski alluded to above - but then my view is tha5 if they are not fit enough to be used simply no pint in them 5aking spaces on bench)

What he was thinking starting BW and Walsh today is beyond me but he simply had to act decisively and urgently - Jose used to and still does and Warnock definitely would have

The fact that he didn’t change anything at half time is simply mind boggling I’m afraid

Hes really threatening my vibe about him the good things I hoped I was seeing in him 

@spudski re knackered etc - if I had to punt at one thing they look muddled / confused re style of play to me combined with a lack of belief and application (Which may  emanate from confusion)

The spirit isn’t there and that (And the reason) behind it concerns me more than anything 

[RobintheRed Red]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

This has been hinted at by others this evening cidered

No idea , but there was some alarm bells , a distinct lack of togetherness , and continual arguing and finger pointing out there this afternoon and I’m back wondering how much influence he actually has over the players or whether they themselves are the major influence 

remember hes twenty years younger but sounds just like him 

[stephenkibby.]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

And you keep talking about knee jerk reactions to individual games

What I’m saying and others are is that this is no knee jerk reaction

This has been coming gradually for 3 months - we’ve been poor and our points tally (although not great) actually masks that to some degree

Today was the culmination and was , as I’ve said a number of times as bad a performance in every aspect from attitude to technical elements that I’ve seen for many years at AG

Thats no knee jerk reaction James - for anyone with reasonable football nous there’s some alarm bells ringing

Do you believe b6 some natural progression we are going to revert to the team and performance of pre Xmas cos I tell you what I hoped and hoped but we are a million miles away from that right now and his muddled selections and recruitment when he has more toys to play with has sent 7s spiralling backwards

November and December doesn’t count for a lot right now going forward unless he realises why we were doing so well at that point and addresses it, and decisively

To date he’s shown no signs that he is doing so

Quite frightening how things can change so quickly.

Even in our good times this season we rode it a bit. Derby home probably our best result, outplayed first half could and should have been 2 down H/T Sheff Utd battered but scored 2 great goals.

For a side at the top end of the league full 90min have been few and far between. Don't get me wrong great to be up there, but if we really look at it  you would be worried for next season.

Now we know on here it will be but we beat manfuckinu  But taking being called doom and gloom and your not really a fan, I feel quite worried about next season and feel with the structure and thinking of the club this for the next few years could be as good  as it gets.

[tinman85]

3 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

Quite frightening how things can change so quickly.

Even in our good times this season we rode it a bit. Derby home probably our best result, outplayed first half could and should have been 2 down H/T Sheff Utd battered but scored 2 great goals.

For a side at the top end of the league full 90min have been few and far between. Don't get me wrong great to be up there, but if we really look at it  you would be worried for next season.

Now we know on here it will be but we beat manfuckinu  But taking being called doom and gloom and your not really a fan, I feel quite worried about next season and feel with the structure and thinking of the club this for the next few years could be as good  as it gets.

Just because we beat man united which was a great night for the club it seems you can't say a word against the management. We didn't even run City close. I mentioned the other day the few games where we were actually dominant and a level apart. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

13 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

Quite frightening how things can change so quickly.

Even in our good times this season we rode it a bit. Derby home probably our best result, outplayed first half could and should have been 2 down H/T Sheff Utd battered but scored 2 great goals.

For a side at the top end of the league full 90min have been few and far between. Don't get me wrong great to be up there, but if we really look at it  you would be worried for next season.

Now we know on here it will be but we beat manfuckinu  But taking being called doom and gloom and your not really a fan, I feel quite worried about next season and feel with the structure and thinking of the club this for the next few years could be as good  as it gets.

You’re not the only one

We will get slated by certain posters on here but my concern is that some of our assets will have been convinced by this drop off that it’s time to move on and we will be reliant on the current recruitment process to replace them to an equal level or in our dreams better and the forecast on that concerns me

Otherwise is Lee tactically astute to continue to produce ways of playing that will get us playing as a sum of the parts above the level of the individual parts ?

He has showed he can coach - according to DH he drilled them pre season with the high press style we saw pre Xmas and the results were there for all to see

On Famaras return we have completely gone away from our high press and neat passing of pre Xmas - truly bizarre

Our recruitment really worries me and there are enoug( real doubts about some of Lees management skills tha5 cause me real concern looking forward to next season

Ive read mountains of posts on here from fans talking about our onward progression next year as if it’s a given / the norm

I don’t see it that simple or predictable by a long way

 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

Quite frightening how things can change so quickly.

Even in our good times this season we rode it a bit. Derby home probably our best result, outplayed first half could and should have been 2 down H/T Sheff Utd battered but scored 2 great goals.

For a side at the top end of the league full 90min have been few and far between. Don't get me wrong great to be up there, but if we really look at it  you would be worried for next season.

Now we know on here it will be but we beat manfuckinu  But taking being called doom and gloom and your not really a fan, I feel quite worried about next season and feel with the structure and thinking of the club this for the next few years could be as good  as it gets.

I liked us in that run of attritional results before the Man City games.  4420 (no real striker, but Reid and Pato).  Never say die, grind teams down, bit of quality in the final third when it mattered and rarely looking like conceding.  Wins like Boro, Forest, etc.

That was our peak.

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 minutes ago, tinman85 said:

Just because we beat man united which was a great night for the club it seems you can't say a word against the management. We didn't even run City close. I mentioned the other day the few games where we were actually dominant and a level apart. 

To be fair - we were magnificent against Man City away and not quite as good but pretty damned good in the home leg

We caused Man City more problems at Etihad than most this season

Whatever the shambles of today and recent weeks I don’t think you can 7ndervalue those performances

What that also brings of course is the worry as to the extent of the mammoth gulf in those performances and attitude to that of recent weeks culminating in today’s car crash and WHY

[tinman85]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I liked us in that run of attritional results before the Man City games.  4420 (no real striker, but Reid and Pato).  Never say die, grind teams down, bit of quality in the final third when it mattered and rarely looking like conceding.  Wins like Boro, Forest, etc.

That was our peak.

Everyone was moaning back then that we need Diedhiou back! 

[Dr Balls]

This game was lost before we even kicked a ball. Surely that team and formation is a bad late April Fool's Joke I thought as I arrived at AG. But no it was real and the performance was exactly what I expected.

For a while this season, I thought from LJ's comments that he watched the same game as the rest of us but not any more. The first half was dire and we were completely overwhelmed in midfield and lacking any creativity. Korey was playing the role of 3 players while Walsh was watching the game go past him. Kent offered nothing while Bobby looked out of sorts. Only Diedhoui really did anything but he had little or no service or support.

It was crying out for a change at half time but amazingly nothing. And we continued to get worse. It was screaming out for Pack or GO'N in midfield but that's not what we got. Instead an out of form Paterson, Djuric for Diedhoui, and Kelly for Wright, but no obvious change in pattern. In fact the formation seemed to crumble completely, with just large gaps for  the Brentford midfield to stroll through at ease. By contrast we could hardly string 2 passes together. It was a performance as bad as any I can remember, worse even than under MacInnes or SO'D,  when at least under the latter we had JET who could just take the ball and score a goal out of nothing. There was never any chance of that today.

Effectively our season ended after the home game against Man City. The fall from grace since then has been precipitous. Whether the club's ambition doesn't stretch to promotion yet, or some of the coaching and playing staff believed the hype that we saw around the League Cup run, or whether some of the players are just knackered, the reality is that something has gone badly wrong, with no evidence that LJ knows how to put it right. On current form we will not make 70 points by the end of the season which is incredible considering where we were after 23 games. 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, tinman85 said:

Everyone was moaning back then that we need Diedhiou back! 

I really like Diedhiou, and I think he’s a good foil for Reid....but not the way we are playing at the mo’.  Fam did okay with shit service today, but we’ve become one-dimensional (perhaps even non-dimensional if there’s such a thing).  I said a couple / few games ago that I’d give Diedhiou a game on the bench, think it was pre-PNE.

Its not his (Diedhiou’s) fault, but we are struggling playing the way we are.

[Davefevs]

@Dr Balls agree with all, apart from final para....but that’s my rise-tinted specs.

[spudski]

26 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I would have Dave

I would have either changed tactically to counter their 4-1-4-1 and / or personnel (That’s dependent on Pack and Bakers fitness as Spudski alluded to above - but then my view is tha5 if they are not fit enough to be used simply no pint in them 5aking spaces on bench)

What he was thinking starting BW and Walsh today is beyond me but he simply had to act decisively and urgently - Jose used to and still does and Warnock definitely would have

The fact that he didn’t change anything at half time is simply mind boggling I’m afraid

Hes really threatening my vibe about him the good things I hoped I was seeing in him 

@spudski re knackered etc - if I had to punt at one thing they look muddled / confused re style of play to me combined with a lack of belief and application (Which may  emanate from confusion)

The spirit isn’t there and that (And the reason) behind it concerns me more than anything 

Have you listened to the LJ audio on the main site tonight @BobBobSuperBob? It's really very telling.

Players out of form, having to release pressure on them, apparently don't react well to 'criticism', react better to positive vibes and feeling loved. More worryingly need geeing up to get enthused and feeling positive and full of energy and believing in themselves.

Now if you are a young player with a chance of the play off's....why the hell do you need 'geeing' up to get enthused and energised? Surely you as a player would be chomping at the bit?

Tbh...it's something that's crossed my mind on a few occasions.

Most of us on here come from a different generation.

Football managers today are dealing with the 'snowflake' generation. And footballers are no different to the rest of their generation. Many full of anxiety, no self belief, don't react well to criticism, need to feel loved, blame others, don't understand old fashioned work ethic, too much given too soon, too comfortable etc, etc,etc.

I look at our team and it often reflects this imo.

Can you imagine someone like Warnock dealing with out lot? They'd shit their pants and cry.

It's a worrying trend for the future. I didn't see one man out there today...

[cheshire_red]

LJ has far too big an ego to be a long term successful manager in any type of business. It's not about putting on a show, it's not about looking good, it's not about impressing your customers / bosses / anyone interested. It is about results particularly at this stage of the season.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I liked us in that run of attritional results before the Man City games.  4420 (no real striker, but Reid and Pato).  Never say die, grind teams down, bit of quality in the final third when it mattered and rarely looking like conceding.  Wins like Boro, Forest, etc.

That was our peak.

I think calling that run attritional undersold it a bit. We had good possession in general, made lots of chances v Boro, albeit more counterattacking... Thought that period until Fielding red v Wolves in the League, produced good fluidity and cohesive... Pressing on point too!

In general, I strongly agree however. Our best period- as a combination of results and controlled performances- tbh.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think calling that run attritional undersold it a bit. We had good possession in general, made lots of chances v Boro, albeit more counterattacking... Thought that period until Fielding red v Wolves in the League, produced good fluidity and cohesive... Pressing on point too!

In general, I strongly agree however. Our best period- as a combination of results and controlled performances- tbh.

Yeah, attritional is a tad underplayed.  We played controlled, disciplined football....patterns of play, creating the spaces, etc.

I never thought we were fluent, but I really enjoyed watching it.  I could see the plan.  Now I can’t.