Predictable otib.......

[Cowshed]

33 minutes ago, Robbored said:

If it’s so simple Cowshed why isn’t LJ or most other manager employing it?      I’m sure as part of doing their badges that all the methods and style of play are part of the curriculum and they’d be quite aware of it.

 

 

 

In a way Neil Harris does the same as Guardiola.  Element of play - Defending - Man City high lines, immediate pressure and transition, Millwall compact shape, low block and counter. Different principles but actually the same methodology - This is how we WILL do it.

Good, bad or indifferent I can go through Head Coach/Manager through the leagues and note that simplicity of approach.

Why isn't LJ? He cannot because he does not establish basic playing principles for the long term, or have a model to follow. 

I’m sure as part of doing their badges that all the methods and style of play are part of the curriculum and they’d be quite aware of it … As part of qualifications Coaches are required to articulate their project, there is no you must do it this way. Coaches are thieves of ideas, bit of that, bit of his …That creates the coaches vision, although at some clubs its  football, its commitment to specific football approach is part of the philosophy of the FC itself, and the Coach follows that commitment to say attacking possession based play.

 

 

 

 

 

[Three Lions]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

I think LJ would like to employ a similar style to Man City but they have the quality players to play in that way - City don’t have the same top quality players.

I thought City tried to press high last season using Reid as the trigger and it was pretty effective but the wheels came off when Famara returned after a long injury absence and he’s not built to play that way. It might have been a combination of the cup run and FDs return that contributed to the loss of form.

This season LJ seems pre occupied with width but lacks a striker whose able to get on the end and whose scoring regularly. Add to that the familiar issue of lack of creativity in midfield kinda explains why City have been recently struggling.

 

 

Do you think it should take two and a half years to end up with like to's, thoughts, mights, kinda's and seems? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 25/11/2018 at 12:04, spudski said:

What you see most weeks, is no different to the majority of teams in this league. That's the Championship for you.

It's probably the hardest league in the world, because of parachute payments from the Prem.

Clubs are now playing to survive...like in the Prem.

Money has taken over. Most Clubs without parachute payments will struggle in this league. It gets harder every year.

You've only got to look at Ipswich...loads of experience in this division...going nowhere but mid table. Get rid of their good manager...and one win all season and adrift.

So many fans just don't seem to grasp how hard this division is.

Even Ole in his match report said Leeds were poor...yet sit in 3rd. We matched them most part.

No manager is going to come into this Club and change things round drastically. It is what it is.

Why anyone thinks a manager will come in here, and be able to attract better players, and pay them more in beyond me.

When you look at the likes of Stoke, Villa...all sat with us, paying more, with bigger resources, 'better players' etc...all average like us...why doesn't that sink in.

You've just got to look at the league and the results each week to realise it's completely bonkers.

Fans were saying how better Preston and Brentford are in recent months...yet both below us.

There is no magic formula...no magic wand. Stability...however boring that sounds is what is needed right now.

So many fans are saying they are bored...it's not City they are bored with...but Championship football. It's become a win at all costs league and attractive football is going out the window. People watch match of the day, and see the likes of Man City and Spurs and think we can do the same. It's not possible....watch Watford, Saints etc...that's boring too...but doing what we are aiming to do.

I actually think many would prefer us being a big fish in the smaller pond of league 1, where we can have a better quality squad for the league.

We just aren't that in this league.

For me...we were spoilt with some excellent football at the beginning of last season, it was entertaining and a pleasure to watch.

But what LJ and the Club found out, was that type of high pressing, high energy football isn't sustainable over a season. It would be if we had a high end squad of quality throughout the Club. If LJ was coach and had the resources of say a Club like Villa...then imo, he would gain promotion with entertaining football.

However...last season we tried it, we got injury after injury...not just in the first team, but throughout all the Clubs teams, right through the system. I spoke to one of our teams coaches and he told me all the players were suffering with hamstring injuries, strains, pulls, tightness. It just wasn't feasible to play that way over a whole season. We had players playing with injuries who should have been resting. And as we know it all went downhill.

People say we aren't playing the same way...we aren't...because LJ knows we can't unless we had the quality and numbers throughout the squad.

So he's having to find a middle ground. It's obvious he's trying to find something that will work. Hence so many changes.

Must be really frustrating to want to play a certain way, but not have the resources to buy in players that are top end championship players that would gain promotion.

We can speculate as fans as much as we like...we don't have the money to pay massive...we don't attract the top end players...hence our strategy.

Imo...it's not going to get us promotion regardless of manager or coach...just stability.

Unfortunately that won't be good enough for many fans. They want their cake and to eat it.

Trust me...i'd love what most fans want...entertaining flowing football that wins games most weeks...but imo, it's not sustainable with what resources we have.

It wouldn't surprise me if LJ actually gets really frustrated this season with the whole set up. He imo, now knows how difficult it is with your hands tied behind your back.

He's more likely to be poached by another team with better resources and do well, than sacked by SL imo. He's in a no win situation.

Even if he were to get sacked, I could see him doing well at a bigger Club.

 

Preston on current trends will overtake us soon, 7 or 8 unbeaten I think- Brentford harder to say but then they started fairly slow last season- but I digress.

Putting them aside, I don't think fans are or have been expecting the earth, despite the excitement of last season.

Realism kicked in surely with most after the big 3 plus squad players such as Magnússon and Djuric departed over the summer- the pre Christmas especially style was unrealistic, and the churn factor was always likely to set us back.

Regardless however, in a division where you have lots of good sides playing 3 in midfield, or packing the centre somewhat ie 3 at the back, why handicap yourself with a chopping and changing of shape- doesn't get the best of people. This is a concern.

The recruitment- 5/6 out of 10, with our resources we need to be 9 out of 10.

His man management- sign players, they disappear then reappear again suddenly- admittedly this happens less now- this is a concern.

Stalling of then latterly deterioration of more established players under his management- I won't include Tomlin because he was in hindsight a bad influence with the wrong attitude- a few examples below.

Last 2 seasons

Pisano- Started alright as in a filler- got worse. Injuries surely played their part?

Baker- Was doing great for half a season, now most certainly not.

Magnússon- Started off, people quite impressed- errors crept in, his technical ability also- man management of him surely not the best.

O'Neil- Started well. Age a problem, injuries a problem but declined.

Hegeler- Looked pretty composed when he started- but a combination of injuries, man management and playing him in a 2 surely haven't helped.

Djuric- Looked a good handful when he came in- good bench strength. Injuries played a part but also lumping the ball to him- lazy by LJ. Reckon through a mix of injuries and flaws in the game plan he's another we didn't see the best of.

This season- and it's early to say and could easily be down to injuries only but I'd say:

Kalas after his first few games, has surely declined.

In most, perhaps all of those cases there is a pattern and this is something I am reluctant to link but all of those be it through academy or club- or even International for a decent European side (Djuric) have played at a higher level than LJ has.

I sometimes wonder whether he knows how to get the best out of these types of players- past playing experience shouldn't be the factor here but maybe his tactical knowledge isn't suitable for some of these?

Now admittedly injuries play their part, and have in quite a few of those but LJ's management has been far from helpful in a number of cases IMO.

[Swede]

On 25/11/2018 at 10:05, spudski said:

I agree with you Robbo...SL wants stability and wants LJ to do well, and trusts him to run the Club how he wants.

LJ is obviously not clueless...he's shown he can compete and even beat some of the worlds best teams.

However...whoever is in charge here, will struggle to gain a top 6 status any time soon, as the Club are looking long term, rather than short term...hence the interest in Academy and structure....and to buy young hungry players to develop.

It's all well and good...but slightly flawed when you have to sell as well. The chances of finding replacements for your sold better players, that will flourish straight away are always a gamble. You never actually get ahead of yourself. Instead you find yourself in an ever revolving door, that ends up bang average....unless you just get one of those fluke seasons.

Recent words by LJ acknowledge this...and their is some frustration in his words. He's between a rock and hard place tbh...any manager here would be. It's the nature of how SL wants the club run.

On paper...it could work...but only if everything was perfect. But as we know...football isn't.

I don't doubt LJ's ability as a coach...I think he's a good one.

My only doubts are the people involved in recruitment...MA for me is a good 'money man', but I have reservations about his role in the recruitment.

And my only doubt about LJ is his ability to motivate players. He himself has said numerous times 'that he needs to get players going'....

For whatever reason our players are playing within themselves, without freedom. you can actually see the 'thinking bubble' attached to their heads, it's weighing them down, slowing them down, both physically and mentally.

We've seen our players are capable...we've seen LJ is a capable...but there comes a time when if you can't motivate players to get going it becomes a worry.

LJ comes across as the thinker...we have Jamie Mac and Holden who have character to 'motivate'...hard no nonsense men....so on paper it should work.

I've started to think LJ would work better in a partnership. A head coach and manager partnership. His coaching skills imo, are good. His motivational skills are questionable imo.

If he and his team of coaches are struggling to get players going, then it's a problem.

We need stability...we need a good coach...but we also need motivation.

Motivation and suspect recruitment are our Achilles heal atm imo.

I want LJ to do well...I like him...but he needs to find a way to motivate these players, or SL needs to find him help or another solution.

It's just got all too cosy and nice...

Absolutely spot on

[Davefevs]

On 25/11/2018 at 09:25, Septic Peg said:

I genuinely don't think Lee has ever blown his lid at the squad and perhaps it's ocassionally warranted.

I bet he has, but he’ll be calling the ‘weaker’ or ‘younger’ players, who won’t challenge back.  Look at how he called out Mags at Preston and Moore at Ipswich.  That’s not a great trait.  His post-match interviews are a big flaw in his management!  I love listening to him outside the confines of the game.

He knows if he called out someone strong or a senior player, he’d get serious challenge back and it would undermine him.

 

[Davefevs]

On 25/11/2018 at 10:05, spudski said:

I agree with you Robbo...SL wants stability and wants LJ to do well, and trusts him to run the Club how he wants.

LJ is obviously not clueless...he's shown he can compete and even beat some of the worlds best teams.

However...whoever is in charge here, will struggle to gain a top 6 status any time soon, as the Club are looking long term, rather than short term...

Can we not have success short-term too?  Sheffield Utd seem to be giving it a go, without spending like us?  SL wants top 6 this season...of course that might be bravado after MA’s comments last season!

hence the interest in Academy and structure....and to buy young hungry players to develop.

It's all well and good...but slightly flawed when you have to sell as well.

We might not have to sell as many or so regularly if we were better recruiters in the first place!

The chances of finding replacements for your sold better players, that will flourish straight away are always a gamble. You never actually get ahead of yourself. Instead you find yourself in an ever revolving door, that ends up bang average....unless you just get one of those fluke seasons.

Agree, Parachute Payments create an unfair playing field, but we are better placed than many clubs, and having seen 17/18’s accounts it’s fair to say we are now one of the better payers in this division....10th -12/13th?  In 16/17 season we were 18th!

Recent words by LJ acknowledge this...and their is some frustration in his words. He's between a rock and hard place tbh...any manager here would be. It's the nature of how SL wants the club run.

And he took the role knowing exactly the basis / challenge.

On paper...it could work...but only if everything was perfect. But as we know...football isn't.

I don't doubt LJ's ability as a coach...I think he's a good one.

On the training ground, totally agree.

My only doubts are the people involved in recruitment...MA for me is a good 'money man', but I have reservations about his role in the recruitment.

Yes, just do the deal Mark, don’t select the players.  By all means veto a deal if it’s too much for what you think you’re getting.

And my only doubt about LJ is his ability to motivate players. He himself has said numerous times 'that he needs to get players going'....

That’s a huge flaw in his make-up and I don’t think you should have a job at this level without that competency.  His other weaknesses (for me) are does not read the game well (during the 90 minutes) and doesn’t select the team in a consistent manner, e.g. far too loyal to Pack this season (who I rate, bu he’s playing poorly).

For whatever reason our players are playing within themselves,

I see some players as not putting effort in, rather than being weighed down.  To me that’s just giving them an excuse.

without freedom. you can actually see the 'thinking bubble' attached to their heads, it's weighing them down, slowing them down, both physically and mentally.

We've seen our players are capable...we've seen LJ is a capable...but there comes a time when if you can't motivate players to get going it becomes a worry.

LJ comes across as the thinker...we have Jamie Mac and Holden who have character to 'motivate'...hard no nonsense men....so on paper it should work.

Without much experience between them, and not at this level coaching-wise.

I've started to think LJ would work better in a partnership. A head coach and manager partnership. His coaching skills imo, are good. His motivational skills are questionable imo.

He needs an Arthur Cox, Lenny Lawrence type to help him manage the snowflake modern player.  He needs a Don Howe to tell him his tactical theories and complexities aren’t going to work in the simple game of pass and move.

If he and his team of coaches are struggling to get players going, then it's a problem.

It is....I wish it wasn’t, but it is.

We need stability...we need a good coach...but we also need motivation.

Motivation and suspect recruitment are our Achilles heal atm imo.

I want LJ to do well...I like him...

Me too.  I know I don’t always come across that way, it’s because I see obvious issues that can’t be ignored.

but he needs to find a way to motivate these players, or SL needs to find him help or another solution.

It's just got all too cosy and nice...

My favourite term ‘cosy club’.

Good post Spud but some comments 

[Davefevs]

13 hours ago, Cowshed said:

In a way Neil Harris does the same as Guardiola.  Element of play - Defending - Man City high lines, immediate pressure and transition, Millwall compact shape, low block and counter. Different principles but actually the same methodology - This is how we WILL do it.

Good, bad or indifferent I can go through Head Coach/Manager through the leagues and note that simplicity of approach.

Why isn't LJ? He cannot because he does not establish basic playing principles for the long term, or have a model to follow. 

I’m sure as part of doing their badges that all the methods and style of play are part of the curriculum and they’d be quite aware of it … As part of qualifications Coaches are required to articulate their project, there is no you must do it this way. Coaches are thieves of ideas, bit of that, bit of his …That creates the coaches vision, although at some clubs its  football, its commitment to specific football approach is part of the philosophy of the FC itself, and the Coach follows that commitment to say attacking possession based play.

 

 

 

 

 

I’ve often sat back and thought what would be my philosophy as a manager?  Of course it would depend on resources given, but my recurring thought, forgetting formations always comes back to pace (both physically and mentally).  I would always be looking to get quick players, either those physically quick, or those sharp in the brain.  I always want to play a high line too, and I think that is because I think quick defenders can cover the big space in behind.  Of course there will be flaws in that, but that’s it.

[spudski]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Good post Spud but some comments 

I'd like to chat properly Dave...however it's difficult to cover your points when I can't quote my own quote...if you get my drift.

In general..we can nit pick this and that...however, we are pretty much like the majority of teams in this league. Bang average. I'm sure every fan in the country is questioning what's going on at their club. We are neither dire...or great.

To ground myself from over reaction, I look at all the other teams in the league...the majority up or down most seasons. All trying to do the same thing. There is no magic formula.

I think most players in this league are capable and are of similar ability. Week in, week out, they are playing against one another and they see and feel their level. They know deep down whether they are good enough to compete at the top. You know when playing against your peers at close quarters whether you are better, the same, or worse.

A recurring comment from LJ this season and last...was getting the players to believe in themselves and to feel positive. Then they have to believe in their ability to play to the system being asked, without condemnation if they make a mistake.

We are a mixed bag...Seem to have got the defence sorted this season...conceded same as Norwich,  Sheff Utd, Derby...and less than Villa, West Brom. In fact we are 5th best in the league for goal conceded.

It's scoring that's the problem...6th worst.

It's our attacking force that really doesn't have the experience and quality needed at this level to do well. We carry too many players in each match day squad, that don't have the experience or guile to succeed consistently. You can see they don't have the confidence...Elliason is a prime example. Often left wanting in positioning...looks like a rabbit in headlights some games. But has flair on other occasions. We've got a lot of players in the first team squad that imo are too immature at this level to win games consistently.

Add that to those who are injured or have lost form and it all adds up. As much as I think Smith is limited in his ability...we've missed his 'aura', experience and calmness this season. It's the little things like that, that make the difference. Our Defence is solid...Hunt, Kalas, Webster and the wonderful 'one off' Kelly are very good at this level...and with Baker and DaSilva we have solid cover.

Pack imo, is missing Smith. His loss of form imo, is down to being the only player in midfield with vast experience. And that's still limited.

With the likes of Brownhill, Odowda, Elliason, Adeluken, Eisa, Famara, Taylor etc....you've got a lot of young faces at this level with not considerable experience.

The only person that looks comfortable when on the offensive is Wiemann...his body language shouts 'comfortable'.

All of our players have potential...and have talent. But imo...to consistently gain points to make the play offs, we just don't have the experience in certain positions.

It's not the managers fault...it's the way he's being asked to recruit....the system.

We will play as we have done...some great, some good, some bang average and some poor...because of limitations of the squad.

Hence imo, us being a bang average side in this division.

If we can keep developing, gaining experience, adding some experience and not selling the likes of Kelly, then we could go forward...but it's a tough ask.

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, spudski said:

I'd like to chat properly Dave...however it's difficult to cover your points when I can't quote my own quote...if you get my drift.

In general..we can nit pick this and that...however, we are pretty much like the majority of teams in this league. Bang average. I'm sure every fan in the country is questioning what's going on at their club. We are neither dire...or great.

To ground myself from over reaction, I look at all the other teams in the league...the majority up or down most seasons. All trying to do the same thing. There is no magic formula.

I think most players in this league are capable and are of similar ability. Week in, week out, they are playing against one another and they see and feel their level. They know deep down whether they are good enough to compete at the top. You know when playing against your peers at close quarters whether you are better, the same, or worse.

A recurring comment from LJ this season and last...was getting the players to believe in themselves and to feel positive. Then they have to believe in their ability to play to the system being asked, without condemnation if they make a mistake.

We are a mixed bag...Seem to have got the defence sorted this season...conceded same as Norwich,  Sheff Utd, Derby...and less than Villa, West Brom. In fact we are 5th best in the league for goal conceded.

It's scoring that's the problem...6th worst.

It's our attacking force that really doesn't have the experience and quality needed at this level to do well. We carry too many players in each match day squad, that don't have the experience or guile to succeed consistently. You can see they don't have the confidence...Elliason is a prime example. Often left wanting in positioning...looks like a rabbit in headlights some games. But has flair on other occasions. We've got a lot of players in the first team squad that imo are too immature at this level to win games consistently.

Add that to those who are injured or have lost form and it all adds up. As much as I think Smith is limited in his ability...we've missed his 'aura', experience and calmness this season. It's the little things like that, that make the difference. Our Defence is solid...Hunt, Kalas, Webster and the wonderful 'one off' Kelly are very good at this level...and with Baker and DaSilva we have solid cover.

Pack imo, is missing Smith. His loss of form imo, is down to being the only player in midfield with vast experience. And that's still limited.

With the likes of Brownhill, Odowda, Elliason, Adeluken, Eisa, Famara, Taylor etc....you've got a lot of young faces at this level with not considerable experience.

The only person that looks comfortable when on the offensive is Wiemann...his body language shouts 'comfortable'.

All of our players have potential...and have talent. But imo...to consistently gain points to make the play offs, we just don't have the experience in certain positions.

It's not the managers fault...it's the way he's being asked to recruit....the system.

We will play as we have done...some great, some good, some bang average and some poor...because of limitations of the squad.

Hence imo, us being a bang average side in this division.

If we can keep developing, gaining experience, adding some experience and not selling the likes of Kelly, then we could go forward...but it's a tough ask.

Not a lot to argue with there Spud.  The Korey Smith factor is interesting.  Many of us said, we’d notice his absence more than we notice him when he is playing....Marlon would probably agree.  Yet LJ chose JB over KS early doors (might be partly due to pre-season fitness).

My only real questions is:

- would a different Head-Coach get more out of this bunch?

[spudski]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not a lot to argue with there Spud.  The Korey Smith factor is interesting.  Many of us said, we’d notice his absence more than we notice him when he is playing....Marlon would probably agree.  Yet LJ chose JB over KS early doors (might be partly due to pre-season fitness).

My only real questions is:

- would a different Head-Coach get more out of this bunch?

It's the question every owner asks himself...and always a gamble. Who knows...

I have my own opinion...but it's only based on what I see matchdays and from what LJ says to the media etc...so flawed as not ofay to everything.

For what it's worth I think LJ is a good coach. The Club did the right thing by appointing someone like MA, so that the head coach could concentrate purely on the playing side....however...my doubt is man management and motivation.

Countless times LJ has said he needs to get the players going and motivated, and believing in their own ability and the game plan.

He's said this many times over the past two seasons. For me that's a worry. If he's saying it...then he knows it's a problem.

A solution to that needs to be found imo.

Perhaps SL should get in there and give them all a kick up the backside in no uncertain terms.

There is not one person at the Club I would fear if I didn't pull my weight.

Everyone comes across as just so nice. Football is a business...but on match day it's like going to war...you need people who will make you run through walls for your team mates...as well as keeping to the game plan. I'm not seeing that at the moment.

[Davefevs]

@spudski

A few things that we’ve heard over the past season or so....not the quotes themselves as I don’t save them (!!), but messages from LJ:

• I’ve allowed little cliques to form
• i’ve had to go back to basics, I've overcomplicated things
• I’ve had to set the ground rules again
• I’ve had to go back to the players I trust
• i thought I'd picked the players I can trust

That to me shows that him and his assistant head-coaches aren’t on the ball / on top of things / allow too much freedom.  They are not things I would want to be putting out there to the media / fans.

I agree that LJ appears to be at his best on the training ground, yet Macca was promoted from the u23s to AHC to allow LJ more time to spend on recruitment.  Perhaps the players take advantage - when the cats away?  We’ve seen him in his element in those training ground videos.  It’s like making the best Salesman the Sales Manager, and sticking him in an office away from what he’s best at.

If you offered him the following roles - 1) Head-coach of Bristol City or 2) coach / no2 to someone like Pep or Jose....what do you think he’d choose?

I think he’d choose 1), yet I think he is better suited to 2).  But I think that is a vanity / ego decision.

[Septic Peg]

20 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I bet he has, but he’ll be calling the ‘weaker’ or ‘younger’ players, who won’t challenge back.  Look at how he called out Mags at Preston and Moore at Ipswich.  That’s not a great trait.  His post-match interviews are a big flaw in his management!  I love listening to him outside the confines of the game.

He knows if he called out someone strong or a senior player, he’d get serious challenge back and it would undermine him.

 

Classic bully/tyrant complex then?

Take a swipe at the weaker elements but refrain from stronger elements as they'll rally and riot.

Did he really read the riot act to Tomlin as we all know he'd be in the "stronger element" catchment. I'm guessing he just ignored him and sent him packing as soon as Cardiff sniffed in his direction.

Either way, you're right. It's not good. To me it's also worrying because if this is indeed the case, then Lee himself will create his own worst enemies. All tyrants fear those they oppress because out of the many victims, one will eventually rise and strike back. 

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Septic Peg said:

Classic bully/tyrant complex then?

Take a swipe at the weaker elements but refrain from stronger elements as they'll rally and riot.

Did he really read the riot act to Tomlin as we all know he'd be in the "stronger element" catchment. I'm guessing he just ignored him and sent him packing as soon as Cardiff sniffed in his direction.

Either way, you're right. It's not good. To me it's also worrying because if this is indeed the case, then Lee himself will create his own worst enemies. All tyrants fear those they oppress because out of the many victims, one will eventually rise and strike back. 

I suspect he made sure he had SL’s full backing and then isolated him. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, Davefevs said:

I suspect he made sure he had SL’s full backing and then isolated him. 

I think you may find it was the other players that sorted Tomlin Dave

[exAtyeoMax]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

@spudski

A few things that we’ve heard over the past season or so....not the quotes themselves as I don’t save them (!!), but messages from LJ:

• I’ve allowed little cliques to form
• i’ve had to go back to basics, I've overcomplicated things
• I’ve had to set the ground rules again
• I’ve had to go back to the players I trust
• i thought I'd picked the players I can trust

That to me shows that him and his assistant head-coaches aren’t on the ball / on top of things / allow too much freedom.  They are not things I would want to be putting out there to the media / fans.

I agree that LJ appears to be at his best on the training ground, yet Macca was promoted from the u23s to AHC to allow LJ more time to spend on recruitment.  Perhaps the players take advantage - when the cats away?  We’ve seen him in his element in those training ground videos.  It’s like making the best Salesman the Sales Manager, and sticking him in an office away from what he’s best at.

If you offered him the following roles - 1) Head-coach of Bristol City or 2) coach / no2 to someone like Pep or Jose....what do you think he’d choose?

I think he’d choose 1), yet I think he is better suited to 2).  But I think that is a vanity / ego decision.

I think he'd go for no2. He loves Pep 

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

@spudski

A few things that we’ve heard over the past season or so....not the quotes themselves as I don’t save them (!!), but messages from LJ:

• I’ve allowed little cliques to form
• i’ve had to go back to basics, I've overcomplicated things
• I’ve had to set the ground rules again
• I’ve had to go back to the players I trust
• i thought I'd picked the players I can trust

That to me shows that him and his assistant head-coaches aren’t on the ball / on top of things / allow too much freedom.  They are not things I would want to be putting out there to the media / fans.

I agree that LJ appears to be at his best on the training ground, yet Macca was promoted from the u23s to AHC to allow LJ more time to spend on recruitment.  Perhaps the players take advantage - when the cats away?  We’ve seen him in his element in those training ground videos.  It’s like making the best Salesman the Sales Manager, and sticking him in an office away from what he’s best at.

If you offered him the following roles - 1) Head-coach of Bristol City or 2) coach / no2 to someone like Pep or Jose....what do you think he’d choose?

I think he’d choose 1), yet I think he is better suited to 2).  But I think that is a vanity / ego decision.

I remember those quotes as well Dave.

I honestly believe he's a good coach...but comes across as too nice, too chummy. You don't gain respect by being their friends. I cringe when he say's the players need a cuddle. It sends the wrong messages imo. It's just way too soft.

Jose and Pep...great coaches...but you wouldn't mess with them. The show their passion and desire but with a fierceness...both on the training pitch and on match day. It earns respect.

It imo is LJ's biggest weakness.

You need a great coach for the football side, you need someone like MA to do all the financial stuff, club management etc...But you also need that respected figurehead on match day. The leader of men...the general. Organising and getting the players motivated from the sidelines. I'm not on about shouting and balling...showing anger...but showing leadership qualities, even good body language, passion, aggression. I've watched LJ closely from the side of the dugouts...it's like watching someone prepare for a game of chess....a pat on the bum, a whisper in the ear...the whole body language is languid...it doesn't fire a player up at all.

It's something you are born with...you can't learn it, it comes naturally...it's in your genes...sadly I feel LJ doesn't have this quality.

Think he's a great coach but lacking in motivation and man management skills.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, spudski said:

I remember those quotes as well Dave.

I honestly believe he's a good coach...but comes across as too nice, too chummy. You don't gain respect by being their friends. I cringe when he say's the players need a cuddle. It sends the wrong messages imo. It's just way too soft.

Jose and Pep...great coaches...but you wouldn't mess with them. The show their passion and desire but with a fierceness...both on the training pitch and on match day. It earns respect.

It imo is LJ's biggest weakness.

You need a great coach for the football side, you need someone like MA to do all the financial stuff, club management etc...But you also need that respected figurehead on match day. The leader of men...the general. Organising and getting the players motivated from the sidelines. I'm not on about shouting and balling...showing anger...but showing leadership qualities, even good body language, passion, aggression. I've watched LJ closely from the side of the dugouts...it's like watching someone prepare for a game of chess....a pat on the bum, a whisper in the ear...the whole body language is languid...it doesn't fire a player up at all.

It's something you are born with...you can't learn it, it comes naturally...it's in your genes...sadly I feel LJ doesn't have this quality.

Think he's a great coach but lacking in motivation and man management skills.

Agree.  Agree.  Agree.

[Superjack]

37 minutes ago, spudski said:

I remember those quotes as well Dave.

I honestly believe he's a good coach...but comes across as too nice, too chummy. You don't gain respect by being their friends. I cringe when he say's the players need a cuddle. It sends the wrong messages imo. It's just way too soft.

Jose and Pep...great coaches...but you wouldn't mess with them. The show their passion and desire but with a fierceness...both on the training pitch and on match day. It earns respect.

It imo is LJ's biggest weakness.

You need a great coach for the football side, you need someone like MA to do all the financial stuff, club management etc...But you also need that respected figurehead on match day. The leader of men...the general. Organising and getting the players motivated from the sidelines. I'm not on about shouting and balling...showing anger...but showing leadership qualities, even good body language, passion, aggression. I've watched LJ closely from the side of the dugouts...it's like watching someone prepare for a game of chess....a pat on the bum, a whisper in the ear...the whole body language is languid...it doesn't fire a player up at all.

It's something you are born with...you can't learn it, it comes naturally...it's in your genes...sadly I feel LJ doesn't have this quality.

Think he's a great coach but lacking in motivation and man management skills.

This is the rub I think. 

It is a poorly kept secret that after Cotterill the board wanted/want a non-confrontational coach. 

But that works downwards as well as up. 

[Robbored]

35 minutes ago, Superjack said:

It is a poorly kept secret that after Cotterill the board wanted/want a non-confrontational coach. 

So poorly kept a secret that only you heard it. Could be that you made it up.....

[Davefevs]

49 minutes ago, Superjack said:

This is the rub I think. 

It is a poorly kept secret that after Cotterill the board wanted/want a non-confrontational coach. 

But that works downwards as well as up. 

I heard they (the board) were in favour of Appleton (Mark Ashton’s man from Oxford), but SL insisted on Johnson.

[spudski]

10 hours ago, Superjack said:

This is the rub I think. 

It is a poorly kept secret that after Cotterill the board wanted/want a non-confrontational coach. 

But that works downwards as well as up. 

SL has imo, been courting LJ for years and discussing ways of running the Club. Just waited for the right time to move.

He realised the Club needed to be run a certain way, to progress, catch up, compete and become self sustainable in this League.

He needed a man he could trust to implement it all.

It started with SoD...however the poor bloke had no help at all, no back up and poor internal staff. That's why it all went pete tong with the first team. He just had too much to do...which was requested of him.

SC agreed to it initially...but then went against the whole ethos of the Club. His time was actually up during the Summer after promotion...he was a dead man walking for various reasons that happened within.

SL moved for LJ as he knew he had too....the move of bringing MA was also something that had been implemented during SC's time.

He realised from the SoD experience that one man couldn't do all the work required. Hence a coaching team and a management team. And those two umbrellas work together with various teams initiated and implemented beneath them.

SL needed a man he could trust to build the Club internally...the infrastructure...it needed doing. LJ was the right man to do it, as it was something that had been planned.

It wasn't just a case of interviewing someone and asking them to implement the structure over night.

This is why LJ has been trusted to keep progressing the Club...it's not just the first team...but the whole Club.

I've said it before many times...but we were miles behind other clubs in how we were run. We are still playing catch up for this level...but it's getting there.

LJ was close to being sacked last season...there was a vote. From what I understand it was alleged MA voted to let him go. We know the board and SL chose to keep him in the end.

The reason SL wants to keep LJ is because he is creating stability throughout the Club, in a way he wants. SL trusts LJ to do it.

There will come a time where everything will be pretty much in place and if needs be, another coach brought in.

It is imo, SL will keep with LJ unless relegation is threatened. He wants the Club stable and to a point where it's fully functioning to a point where another Coach if needed could slip in seamlessly without it effecting the 'build'.

When fans talk about our recruitment...fingers shouldn't be pointed just at LJ. The running of this Club is massively effected by MA...the buck stops with him, as much as LJ imo.

[Cowshed]

Spudski you appear to have had a seismic turn around in your views. Posters last season and earlier were pointing out much the same.

Recruitment.

Leadership.

At the very start of this season the same doubts were raised, you gave them short shrift. 

In regards to Leadership no amount of positive pointing and great body language makes up for the most significant motivational tool - Bristol City have no real game plan week to week and they have not for seasons.

Without that big picture to buy into, without that big picture driving training, without that big picture helping to focus players on their improvement the motivation of the team has to be affected. 

Too much change can affect the mental and emotional stability of the team, increasing anxiety and decreasing communication. Coaches should have constant discussions about the benefit of stability against the advantage of  change - Bill Beswick Sports psychologist. 

The above could have been written about Mr Johnson.

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Spudski you appear to have had a seismic turn around in your views. Posters last season and earlier were pointing out much the same.

Recruitment.

Leadership.

At the very start of this season the same doubts were raised, you gave them short shrift. 

In regards to Leadership no amount of positive pointing and great body language makes up for the most significant motivational tool - Bristol City have no real game plan week to week and they have not for seasons.

Without that big picture to buy into, without that big picture driving training, without that big picture helping to focus players on their improvement the motivation of the team has to be affected. 

Too much change can affect the mental and emotional stability of the team, increasing anxiety and decreasing communication. Coaches should have constant discussions about the benefit of stability against the advantage of  change - Bill Beswick Sports psychologist. 

The above could have been written about Mr Johnson.

I've said in previous posts that I feel LJs man management and leadership is poor imo.

I think his coaching is fine.

He's hamstrung in many ways because of the club's structure to buy inexperienced hungry young players. It's not his fault.

The inconsistent results imo are down to this. We play well occasionally, because that's what you get with such a squad.

I don't think any manager could get much more out of such an inexperienced squad in this division.

The majority of the young inexperienced players will need constant motivation and guidance...they have the ability...but carry doubt and inexperience.

Apart from Kelly...who looks class at this level.

[Cowshed]

21 minutes ago, spudski said:

I've said in previous posts that I feel LJs man management and leadership is poor imo.

I think his coaching is fine.

He's hamstrung in many ways because of the club's structure to buy inexperienced hungry young players. It's not his fault.

The inconsistent results imo are down to this. We play well occasionally, because that's what you get with such a squad.

I don't think any manager could get much more out of such an inexperienced squad in this division.

The majority of the young inexperienced players will need constant motivation and guidance...they have the ability...but carry doubt and inexperience.

Apart from Kelly...who looks class at this level.

The teams performance and that is not solely results based is a reflection of Mr Johnsons coaching.

In your earlier post you mentioned two great Coaches. Their guidance comes from their belief and principles. Both believe in tactical periodisation. Everything follows that one over riding call it what you want project, identity, system of systems, game approach, model of play … That model of play is used to motivate and feed confidence. 

Mr Johnson is also very keen on using these industry buzz words. However it is his fault that he has failed to implement them into his football over the last two and half years . That is a coaching issue.

 

 

 

[NickJ]

On 25/11/2018 at 12:04, spudski said:

He's more likely to be poached by another team with better resources and do well, than sacked by SL imo. He's in a no win situation.

 

On the contrary that seems like a win-win situation to me.

You may well be right that we are in about the right position relative to income, but I cant agree with the notion that Bristol City cannot be better due to lack of money. There will always be teams that punch above their weight, and we haven't been one of those for a long time, since the late 70's to be precise.

If LJ - or any manager - is only capable of bumbling along in accordance with the allegedly meagre resources, surely they should be replaced with somebody who has above average capabilities.

As we saw with Steve Cotterill for example, a manager taking us towards relegation from this division, therefore punching below our weight, is in danger of the sack. We aren't at that stage yet, but the last few games and the ones coming up would suggest to me that LJ's best bet for longer term employment is for that bigger team to come along and poach him. Although unlike you I wouldn't be holding my breath if I were him.

[NickJ]

41 minutes ago, spudski said:

I've said in previous posts that I feel LJs man management and leadership is poor imo.

I think his coaching is fine.

He's hamstrung in many ways because of the club's structure to buy inexperienced hungry young players. It's not his fault.

The inconsistent results imo are down to this. We play well occasionally, because that's what you get with such a squad.

I don't think any manager could get much more out of such an inexperienced squad in this division.

The majority of the young inexperienced players will need constant motivation and guidance...they have the ability...but carry doubt and inexperience.

Apart from Kelly...who looks class at this level.

The bolded sentences contradict each other.

I agree 100% with the first and so by definition disagree very strongly with the second. Of course another manager could get more out of the squad, for the very reason you identify.

[Cowshed]

3 minutes ago, NickJ said:

The bolded sentences contradict each other.

I agree 100% with the first and so by definition disagree very strongly with the second. Of course another manager could get more out of the squad, for the very reason you identify.

They are a contradiction.

The poster in other posts identifies great Leaders, motivators, organisers … And more than suggests Mr Johnson is not these things.

Its damning.

So obviously there have to be people who can get more out of these players.

[spudski]

22 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

The teams performance and that is not solely results based is a reflection of Mr Johnsons coaching.

In your earlier post you mentioned two great Coaches. Their guidance comes from their belief and principles. Both believe in tactical periodisation. Everything follows that one over riding call it what you want project, identity, system of systems, game approach, model of play … That model of play is used to motivate and feed confidence. 

Mr Johnson is also very keen on using these industry buzz words. However it is his fault that he has failed to implement them into his football over the last two and half years . That is a coaching issue.

 

 

 

His coaching, resources, the way the club runs, reflect what we are...a mid table side imo.

 

20 minutes ago, NickJ said:

On the contrary that seems like a win-win situation to me.

You may well be right that we are in about the right position relative to income, but I cant agree with the notion that Bristol City cannot be better due to lack of money. There will always be teams that punch above their weight, and we haven't been one of those for a long time, since the late 70's to be precise.

If LJ - or any manager - is only capable of bumbling along in accordance with the allegedly meagre resources, surely they should be replaced with somebody who has above average capabilities.

As we saw with Steve Cotterill for example, a manager taking us towards relegation from this division, therefore punching below our weight, is in danger of the sack. We aren't at that stage yet, but the last few games and the ones coming up would suggest to me that LJ's best bet for longer term employment is for that bigger team to come along and poach him. Although unlike you I wouldn't be holding my breath if I were him.

 

14 minutes ago, NickJ said:

The bolded sentences contradict each other.

I agree 100% with the first and so by definition disagree very strongly with the second. Of course another manager could get more out of the squad, for the very reason you identify.

I've not mentioned money...it's the overall structure of how he's being asked to run the club 

With just money available...he could go out and buy experienced Championship players that would be for short term benefit. Our model isn't that anymore...plus he's being asked to build a better infrastructure for the stability and future of the club.

10 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

They are a contradiction.

The poster in other posts identifies great Leaders, motivators, organisers … And more than suggests Mr Johnson is not these things.

Its damning.

So obviously there have to be people who can get more out of these players.

They don't contradict...one is a statement about LJ not being a good motivator...the other is a statement saying I don't think anyone could get more out of the squad... motivated or not...because of the whole club set up...

[Sturny]

19 minutes ago, spudski said:

His coaching, resources, the way the club runs, reflect what we are...a mid table side imo.

 

 

I've not mentioned money...it's the overall structure of how he's being asked to run the club 

With just money available...he could go out and buy experienced Championship players that would be for short term benefit. Our model isn't that anymore...plus he's being asked to build a better infrastructure for the stability and future of the club.

They don't contradict...one is a statement about LJ not being a good motivator...the other is a statement saying I don't think anyone could get more out of the squad... motivated or not...because of the whole club set up...

I think you've just puzzled people by stating there's no better coach that can come in with better motivational skills that'll improve this squad's performances. Someone like Warnock with his motivational/coaching skills would completely change this squad around (subjectively thinking of course) 

[Cowshed]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

His coaching, resources, the way the club runs, reflect what we are...a mid table side imo.

 

 

I've not mentioned money...it's the overall structure of how he's being asked to run the club 

With just money available...he could go out and buy experienced Championship players that would be for short term benefit. Our model isn't that anymore...plus he's being asked to build a better infrastructure for the stability and future of the club.

They don't contradict...one is a statement about LJ not being a good motivator...the other is a statement saying I don't think anyone could get more out of the squad... motivated or not...because of the whole club set up...

You may be being deliberately obtuse and avoiding the point made. I am very clearly making consistent points away from solely the metrics of points.

14 hours ago, spudski said:

You need a great coach for the football side, you need someone like MA to do all the financial stuff, club management etc...But you also need that respected figurehead on match day. The leader of men...the general. Organising and getting the players motivated from the sidelines. I'm not on about shouting and balling...showing anger...but showing leadership qualities, even good body language, passion, aggression. I've watched LJ closely from the side of the dugouts...it's like watching someone prepare for a game of chess....a pat on the bum, a whisper in the ear...the whole body language is languid...it doesn't fire a player up at all. 

It's something you are born with...you can't learn it, it comes naturally...it's in your genes...sadly I feel LJ doesn't have this quality.

Think he's a great coach but lacking in motivation and man management skills.

The above is a coaching issue. If he is not a great in this role … Obviously others could get more out of the team.

But the point I was making was where does motivation and confidence come from? Who helps feed that away from match day and every day? Its the head coach. You highlighted two men who use their practice matchday and on the training pitch, their principles, their vision to feed players mind sets. Mr Johnson does not use that approach.