LJ in "The Times" today; 300th game as manager

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Not at all . Is it realistic to say he thinks he can win the prem with us ? 

Why doesn’t he just say . We need to challenge to get out of this league first which would be a huge achievement for the club. We can worry about anything else after that. 

Well answered. 

This thread doesn’t have to degenerate the way some theses have. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Not at all . Is it realistic to say he thinks he can win the prem with us ? 

Why doesn’t he just say . We need to challenge to get out of this league first which would be a huge achievement for the club. We can worry about anything else after that. 

Does it really matter? Really? Just another opportunity to kick our manager though I guess. 

Anyway, I've got a horrible drive up to Bristol from Bournemouth. 

COME ON YOU REDS

[swanker]

45 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

After reading that he does come across as arrogant. He thinks he’s doing a great job.

Well lee. Self praise is no praise at all.  

I think I’d call it bragging and that’s terrible if you’ve got nothing to Bragg about!

[steviestevieneville]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s me too. As above I’m in a mellow phase, but even trying to remain balanced reading that is pretty tough. 

Not at all. He himself (LJ) is setting himself up. All we are asking is a bit of sense / humility, whilst probably realising the world of football is all bravado. 

Exactly , Just be honest . I would have much more respect if he said what we all thought. If we played poorly say it but don’t dig any players out in person . Do it privately 

[Davefevs]

Just now, Badger08 said:

Does it really matter? Really? Just another opportunity to kick our manager though I guess. 

Anyway, I've got a horrible drive up to Bristol from Bournemouth. 

COME ON YOU REDS

Is it. Think responses have been fair. No kicking imho, just reflection on how he’s interviewed. It’s diffucult to read without having an opinion that he’s quite full of himself. No one is saying LJ out are they. Only you and RD trying to raise that!!!!

[Gazred]

He's always talked a good game in these interviews. Comes across as a student of the game and life itself.

Just the sort of manager i would like to be successful here. He does make it bloody hard to get behind him sometimes.

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Is it. Think responses have been fair. No kicking imho, just reflection on how he’s interviewed. It’s diffucult to read without having an opinion that he’s quite full of himself. No one is saying LJ out are they. Only you and RD trying to raise that!!!!You 

You want LJ out don't you? So does @steviestevieneville. This wouldn't have been mentioned I'd we were sat in 6th and you know it. 

[steviestevieneville]

3 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

Does it really matter? Really? Just another opportunity to kick our manager though I guess. 

Anyway, I've got a horrible drive up to Bristol from Bournemouth. 

COME ON YOU REDS

Have a safe trip. I honestly do not want to have a dig at him but he doesn’t help himself with pie in the sky comments . He says we’re humble then shoots himself in the foot . He needs a lesson in self awareness imo. 

We all want a successful team and we all need to be together . Unfortunately LJ is starting to grate with me but I really hope to be proved wrong 

[steviestevieneville]

1 minute ago, Badger08 said:

You want LJ out don't you? So does @steviestevieneville. This wouldn't have been mentioned I'd we were sat in 6th and you know it. 

As I said previously . I want him to prove me wrong . 

[And Its Smith]

37 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s me too. As above I’m in a mellow phase, but even trying to remain balanced reading that is pretty tough. 

Not at all. He himself (LJ) is setting himself up. All we are asking is a bit of sense / humility, whilst probably realising the world of football is all bravado. 

He was probably asked directly. Nothing wrong with self confidence. 

[RumRed]

29 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

You want LJ out don't you? So does @steviestevieneville. This wouldn't have been mentioned I'd we were sat in 6th and you know it. 

But we’re not.

[bcfc01]

Always a problem, reading an article where the editing may sometimes cause the content to have a lack of context.

But he does come across as someone who has a firm belief in himself which some may say is arrogance but if it was just arrogance or conceit with no substance he wouldn't have lasted this long doing what he is doing. I would think that self belief is a very important attribute to have doing his job, especially after a run of poor results and thousands of people giving you stick. Same for players. I'd hate to have a shrinking violet as a head coach/manager, or players for that matter.

I'll temper that by saying he doesn't do himself any favours with things like "I think I'm doing a great job", he'd be better saying "I think I'm doing a good job."  That may come in time.

Nothing wrong with strong self belief as long as there is a bit of humility chucked in, without the humility I can see why some call it arrogance. Its an article which has obviously been edited for publication and maybe some humble bits have been left out..

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

[JBFC II]

29 minutes ago, RumRed said:

But we’re not.

No, we’re 13th, in one of the highest league positions of our history. 

Not too shabby imo

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Badger08 said:

You want LJ out don't you? So does @steviestevieneville. This wouldn't have been mentioned I'd we were sat in 6th and you know it. 

Believe it or not, no, I don’t want him out.  I see positives and negatives in him, I write on here about them.  Most managers do....and I see +/- in them too.  I don’t see a magic answer like some.  I’m prepared to wait and see.  Nothing would be better than to see him, with such an affinity to BCFC, achieve something here, but nit]r should that blind us either.

I read that article as LJ having little humility.  Even if we were sat 6th, I would be sat here thinking “go careful Lee, this game has a habit of kicking you up the arse, wait until you’ve accomplished something”.  There is some history here, just look back at last season.  The game kicked him up the arse then....and I’m surprised he is still using lines from 442 Magazine, in whatever context it is used.

34 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Always a problem, reading an article where the editing may sometimes cause the content to have a lack of context.

But he does come across as someone who has a firm belief in himself which some may say is arrogance but if it was just arrogance or conceit with no substance he wouldn't have lasted this long doing what he is doing. I would think that self belief is a very important attribute to have doing his job, especially after a run of poor results and thousands of people giving you stick. Same for players. I'd hate to have a shrinking violet as a head coach/manager, or players for that matter.

I'll temper that by saying he doesn't do himself any favours with things like "I think I'm doing a great job", he'd be better saying "I think I'm doing a good job."  That may come in time.

Nothing wrong with strong self belief as long as there is a bit of humility chucked in, without the humility I can see why some call it arrogance. Its an article which has obviously been edited for publication and maybe some humble bits have been left out..

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Absolutely.  And we can only read it as it has been edited and put into column inches as it has.  As I said I'm pretty mellow at the moment, hence why I don’t think any of us have gone to town on some of those comments.

[Davefevs]

24 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

No, we’re 13th, in one of the highest league positions of our history. 

Not too shabby imo

Correct, but for those using League Position as the only method of determining progress, you have to be consistent in your methods.  Does this mean we are slipping backwards?

Now, Personally, I don’t think we are, because there’s a bigger picture.  League position is important but it’s not the be all and end all.

I would happily sit in 13th position all season, free up some wages, make a few £s back from getting rid of a few ‘fringe / outside-fringe" players like Hegeler (who I like but obviously doesn’t fit in) and challenge Morrell, Vyner, Eisa, Semenyo etc to prove to me that we don’t need to bring in a Jack Hunt (for Vyner), for example anymore.

[JBFC II]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Correct, but for those using League Position as the only method of determining progress, you have to be consistent in your methods.  Does this mean we are slipping backwards?

Now, Personally, I don’t think we are, because there’s a bigger picture.  League position is important but it’s not the be all and end all.

I would happily sit in 13th position all season, free up some wages, make a few £s back from getting rid of a few ‘fringe / outside-fringe" players like Hegeler (who I like but obviously doesn’t fit in) and challenge Morrell, Vyner, Eisa, Semenyo etc to prove to me that we don’t need to bring in a Jack Hunt (for Vyner), for example anymore.

I don’t think we are going backwards. However we have definitely stalled. 

Thats why I think we should bring someone new in, Johnson has taken us to mid table in the championship, which is a good position for us to be in. However, I don’t think he’s going to be able to consistently take us further, and I reckon there is definitely someone out there who can

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

 

@Robbored - you’re experienced in this type of thing....you read anything into it?

There are several psychological reasons that would fit.

The first theory that strikes me would be the effect that living in the shadow of a father in the same line of work - something that LJ has had all his life might well develop him into the man he is now. I’m sure LJ has  subconsciously questioned  whether he’d be where he is today without his fathers influence on his career.

Another theory - linked to the first in some ways - would be ingrained learnt behaviour again from his father.

In a subconscious fashion LJ has tried to become his own man by firstly getting selected by other managers when on loan and when in Scotland in an attempt to prove to himself that he could play professional football without the element of nepotism.

Same applies to his managerial career. He’s trying to prove that he’s unique by going off to watch how some PL work, by learning all he can about the stress involved by visiting places like hospitals were stress in a huge issue particularly in A&E.

Studying the game in detail and trying to show off  his tactical nouse which imv has become over elaborate and kinda explains why the recent performances have been so drab.

Bottom line - LJ is trying to prove himself without the help of his father.

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, Robbored said:

There are several psychological reasons that would fit.

The first theory that strikes me would be the effect that living in the shadow of a father in the same line of work - something that LJ has had all his life might well develop him into the man he is now. I’m sure LJ has  subconsciously questioned  whether he’d be where he is today without his fathers influence on his career.

Another theory - linked to the first in some ways - would be ingrained learnt behaviour again from his father.

In a subconscious fashion LJ has tried to become his own man by firstly getting selected by other managers when on loan and when in Scotland in an attempt to prove to himself that he could play professional football without the element of nepotism.

Same applies to his managerial career. He’s trying to prove that he’s unique by going off to watch how some PL work, by learning all he can about the stress involved by visiting places like hospitals were stress in a huge issue particularly in A&E.

Studying the game in detail and trying to show off  his tactical nouse which imv has become over elaborate and kinda explains why the recent performances have been so drab.

Bottom line - LJ is trying to prove himself without the help of his father.

Thanks RR.  I posted a piece a number of weeks back about him having a lack of a true mentor outside of his Dad.  Whilst having a father in football is great, I debated the point whether he had a mentor of any pedigree as either a player or as a young Head-Coach.  I couldn’t find one.

The likes of Frank Lampard, not only had his own top-level career, but had a dad who played top-flight, and uncle, and several managers to look up to, or in some cases think ‘I ain’t gonna be like that”.

Even those without great pro careers, like Wenger, had an influential coach / manager (with pedigree) to learn from / look up to.

After I wrote that I actually felt a bit sorry for him, although the slightly harder / cynical side of me thought “you wanted the challenge”.

That is why I have often thought he could do with a real football man as a Footballing DoF, not a Financial DoF (see CEO Mark Ashton).

He is undoubtedly a student of the game, lives and breathes the game.  I cannot fault that....wish I had that drive.  But I think the missing piece in the jigsaw would be someone like a ‘Joe Jordan’ type to be there day-to-day to just pass on experience that isn’t from the Johnson family tree.

Just one final thing RR....do you think there is a bit of - ‘I’m a better head-coach than my dad, he was just a motivator, and yet he almost got this club into the Prem...I’ve got to be able to do that, it he’ll always have bragging rights”?

@Badger08 - does any of the above say “Dave Fevs wants LJ out”?

[cidered abroad]

I recently posted the bit about talking to Lloyd Kelly during a game, subbing him at half time and several questioned my sanity in stating it.

LJ just confirmed it; he dropped Lloyd Kelly for apparently not giving him (LJ) his full attention during a match. Not my way of managing anybody. You should encourage not punish. Try training a child or a puppy by punishing rather than encouraging. It doesn't work.

So maybe we now know why others in the squad are not picked. And others picked when so clearly out of form.

[JamesBCFC]

Think people are reading too deeply into what was said.

Managers have to have belief in themselves, if they don't then the have to con their bosses and the players into thinking that they have that belief.

He also hasn't said winning the Premier League with us is likely, just he believes it could  be done.

 

[Alessandro]

1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

Not at all . Is it realistic to say he thinks he can win the prem with us ? 

Why doesn’t he just say . We need to challenge to get out of this league first which would be a huge achievement for the club. We can worry about anything else after that. 

I’ve got to agree with you - it’s a completely unrealistic thing to say.

But just remember, with all these articles, it’s only what the paper wants us to read - you don’t know the whole context:

He might well have said - “yes I think I can win the premier league with BCFC. But first I’m concentrating on getting us out of this division” - of course the paper will leave that bit out.

It is however a second sound bite from LJ that is a bit embarrassing. 

[Kodjias Wrist]

12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Bottom line - LJ is trying to prove himself without the help of his father.

What about without the help of SL? Did he not help LJ get the Oldham job? Gave him a very good budget consistently and gave him time no manager would receive in the entire football league?

He's been very lucky I think and would be out of the game long ago IF he didn't have SL.

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, Badger08 said:

You want LJ out don't you? So does @steviestevieneville. This wouldn't have been mentioned I'd we were sat in 6th and you know it. 

Don’t get the vitriol towards @Davefevs - you are disturbing his ‘mellow phase’ !! If we were sat in 6th place in the championship and LJ said in an interview with a national newspaper that he thinks he can win the premier league with Bristol City I’d still have said he is being unrealistic - so it would have been mentioned...when we were in 2nd place nearly a year ago I still didn’t think we were going to win the premier league anytime soon under the current management ...did you?

[JamesBCFC]

3 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I recently posted the bit about talking to Lloyd Kelly during a game, subbing him at half time and several questioned my sanity in stating it.

LJ just confirmed it; he dropped Lloyd Kelly for apparently not giving him (LJ) his full attention during a match. Not my way of managing anybody. You should encourage not punish. Try training a child or a puppy by punishing rather than encouraging. It doesn't work.

So maybe we now know why others in the squad are not picked. And others picked when so clearly out of form.

If you got someone on the pitch you know is ignoring instructions, why should they stay on the pitch?

Pretty sure we had similar stuff when Tomlin was here and people asked why Tomlin wasn't subbed for it, looks like LJ is in a no-win place in this situation.

[SStandUp]

2 hours ago, One Team said:

It’s a great interview and article and very illuminating.

It also highlights LJ’s arrogance (lots of “I” not “we”) which isn’t appealing. Confidence is fine but it doesn’t come across that way reading it. 

You can tell from the assured comments that as many have predicted on many occasions he’s going nowhere any time soon.

 

In fairness, It's an Interview about Lee Johnson. Not Bristol City or anyone else.

What you don't see is the question being asked. I.e. Do you think you're doing a good job ..hence the "I think.." response 

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Think people are reading too deeply into what was said.

Managers have to have belief in themselves, if they don't then the have to con their bosses and the players into thinking that they have that belief.

He also hasn't said winning the Premier League with us is likely, just he believes it could  be done.

 

PL thing still a stupid thing to say, makes pressure- rod for his own back.

Agree with the first 2 bits of your post fully though- managers back themselves, and will back themselves until they are sacked these days- maybe to do with payoff but also just an iron self-belief- they have a bit of an ego most managers and they need it to push themselves forward.

@Davefevs I agree about the DoF thing and I agree that Joe Jordan- bit unsure though, if he still had managerial ambitions that would not make for a good situation or working relationship with LJ IMO. DoF is an interesting idea but needs to be someone without managerial ambitions or maybe without a managerial background- they have it in Europe, different system but their DoF has contacts, has a football background but not necessarily as a a manager or with ambitions to be as such.

Joe Jordan on the coaching staff though? Could definitely see that working- if again LJ consented.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

If you got someone on the pitch you know is ignoring instructions, why should they stay on the pitch?

Pretty sure we had similar stuff when Tomlin was here and people asked why Tomlin wasn't subbed for it, looks like LJ is in a no-win place in this situation.

A possible difference might be LK’s first offence....LT’s serial offender.

But if a true like-for-like then agree, LK subbed is correct imho

[SStandUp]

2 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

After reading that he does come across as arrogant. He thinks he’s doing a great job.

Well lee. Self praise is no praise at all.  

It's an interview about Lee Johnson. He's talking about himself.

Hes not going to sit there and say nah I'm doing an average job. Because people like yourself will be jumping all over it saying "well, he clearly doesn't back himself blah blah blah"

[Alessandro]

7 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I recently posted the bit about talking to Lloyd Kelly during a game, subbing him at half time and several questioned my sanity in stating it.

LJ just confirmed it; he dropped Lloyd Kelly for apparently not giving him (LJ) his full attention during a match. Not my way of managing anybody. You should encourage not punish. Try training a child or a puppy by punishing rather than encouraging. It doesn't work.

So maybe we now know why others in the squad are not picked.

Hang on hang on - a very popular view on OTIB is that LJ only ‘molly coddles’ the players - remember the annoyance at the ‘he needs a cuddle’ comment?

The players need to know who is the boss, good for him subbing him, IMO.

Better still we are only just finding out, because it’s been kept in house till blown over and that’s the way it should be.

If you’ve seen the clips from training I would say he is very encouraging and on the side line when I’m raging at a mistake he is often clapping.

 

[JamesBCFC]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

PL thing still a stupid thing to say, makes pressure- rod for his own back.

Agree with the first 2 bits of your post fully though- managers back themselves, and will back themselves until they are sacked these days- maybe to do with payoff but also just an iron self-belief- they have a bit of an ego most managers and they need it to push themselves forward.

As others have already said though, we don't know the full context. Was he asked could he do it?

Was he asked what he thought was possible at the club?

 

It's a less extreme, but like me saying I could become Prime Minister.

I don't think it will happen, and it almost certainly won't. But it could.