Kalas - Signed for Schalke04

[Scrumpty]

Kalas was on £20k+, but no idea what he’s been offered now.  Pearson is adamant the whole squad are within the same pay range, considering disparity to be a significant demotivating factor for lower paid members, hence departures of most of the higher earners. 

[PHILINFRANCE]

5 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

This has all the makings of Baker last season…

I have been thinking exactly this for some weeks, probably months now, but was reluctant to post as it seemed unduly pessimistic.

Like many on here, I think Kalas is a top class central defender, certainly for this division and perhaps even in a higher standard elsewhere.

Unfortunately, just like his erstwhile teammate, Nathan Baker, he is also a wholehearted defender, which makes him injury prone or, at least, exposes him to injury - I am aware of his exemplary appearance record prior to this last season, but his type of game, just like NB, whilst admirable, exposes him to a high risk of injury.

He is also getting no younger, meaning, inevitably, he will take longer to recover from any future injuries.

Much as I would like him to sign, I can’t help feeling there would be a major risk involved.

I wish the best of luck to whoever signs off on this decision and, of course, to Tomas, should he indeed decide to sign.

[bpexile]

19 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Re Insurance, it seems to be not the same.  Player himself will have insurance, but clubs don’t tend to insure injuries and premiums too steep and conditions too restrictive.  They will cover life though…and someone said they might cover specific tournaments like the WC / Euros where they aren’t with the club.

No, you’re thinking if Bcfcshagpile!

G'day Dave, do you know anything about the clubs stance on insurance when it came to Bakers injury. Did the club just do the right thing by him because of the nature of the injury or would they/he have had insurance to cover him seeing out his contract?.

Not being argumentative mate, purely interested 

[Mihai]

I would not sign him a new contract. He has injury problems and likely will do the same. He is not at the same level as before and we have enough defenders if Vyner stays here. I really liked Kalas but last 2 seasons was mostly injured... 

[Mr Hankey]

1 minute ago, Mihai said:

I would not sign him a new contract. He has injury problems and likely will do the same. He is not at the same level as before and we have enough defenders if Vyner stays here. I really liked Kalas but last 2 seasons was mostly injured... 

Last season he was indeed injured, but the season before he played 35 league games, which is not an injury hit year at all..........if he is willing to accept much reduced terms then i am all for it, if not then he will move on.

[Mihai]

1 minute ago, Mr Hankey said:

Last season he was indeed injured, but the season before he played 35 league games, which is not an injury hit year at all..........if he is willing to accept much reduced terms then i am all for it, if not then he will move on.

Yea on reduced terms is okay. But at over 20k+ is not worth it. We need to boost other areas of the pitch and that money would help us to pay more salaries. We are pretty in good shape at CB with a numer of player being very versatile.

I am still waiting for a proven Striker. I don't see striking top 6 for 46 games with Bell and Conway ( they are very talented ) but we need a proven striker.

[Simon bristol]

10 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

This has all the makings of Baker last season…

Obviously what baker had was horrible and couldnt have been foreseen, but it does feel kinda similar in someways, in terms of the way they play, ages, salary level and injury history.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, bpexile said:

G'day Dave, do you know anything about the clubs stance on insurance when it came to Bakers injury. Did the club just do the right thing by him because of the nature of the injury or would they/he have had insurance to cover him seeing out his contract?.

Not being argumentative mate, purely interested 

@TDarwallis probably the expert, but from what I’ve read (about other injuries) it’s exactly that, no insurance to payout Baker (when the medical results determined his retirement), so just continued to pay him until his contract ended, as was their obligation.

I was surprised to see him on the released list, assumed he’d already gone, as per his retirement announcement.  But it seems like we just continued to pay him.

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Mihai said:

He is not at the same level as before

Being a bit confrontational, just asking the question - did you watch Kalas this season?  I thought he was near the top of his game when he played.

Definitely up for debate re his injuries and possibly them recurring though.

10 minutes ago, Mihai said:

I am still waiting for a proven Striker. I don't see striking top 6 for 46 games with Bell and Conway ( they are very talented ) but we need a proven striker.

Why have you omitted the other forwards in our squad?  Our top league scorer is still here btw.

[TDarwall]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

@TDarwallis probably the expert, but from what I’ve read (about other injuries) it’s exactly that, no insurance to payout Baker (when the medical results determined his retirement), so just continued to pay him until his contract ended, as was their obligation.

I was surprised to see him on the released list, assumed he’d already gone, as per his retirement announcement.  But it seems like we just continued to pay him.

I was involved in life cover for football Pro's. I suspect you could get something akin to career ending injury cover but it would be blinking expensive! In the depths of my mind i think the PFA might have such a scheme for players which probably covers all players in the PFA. However, that would be for the benefit of the player, not the club.

Clubs are very patchy in the insurance cover they buy to protect themselves, & some of the uber rich effectively self insure.

 

 

 

[beaverface]

I think Kalas needs the right kind of defensive partner next to him. Thought he looked really good when on loan, and especially when he played next to Webster. However when he has lesser players next to him, he struggles to be the leader of the defence.

I've seen him described further up the trail as having Rolls Royce type of performances, but I see the opposite. What I see in Kalas is full blooded, aggressive, last ditch sliding tackles and blocks. His distribution hasn't been great, far from Rolls Royce, and yet if I compare to Vyner, I would say he's like a car that getting better the more we tune it. He's started to glide across the pitch, uses his pace and strength, and looks a very elegant player in the process. I suppose the decision the club have to figure out, is Vyner now tuned to the top end of his 1.6litre engine capacity, or can he be upgraded to compete against the Porsches (or Bentley's - excuse the pun) of this World?

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 minutes ago, beaverface said:

I think Kalas needs the right kind of defensive partner next to him. Thought he looked really good when on loan, and especially when he played next to Webster. However when he has lesser players next to him, he struggles to be the leader of the defence.

I've seen him described further up the trail as having Rolls Royce type of performances, but I see the opposite. What I see in Kalas is full blooded, aggressive, last ditch sliding tackles and blocks. His distribution hasn't been great, far from Rolls Royce, and yet if I compare to Vyner, I would say he's like a car that getting better the more we tune it. He's started to glide across the pitch, uses his pace and strength, and looks a very elegant player in the process. I suppose the decision the club have to figure out, is Vyner now tuned to the top end of his 1.6litre engine capacity, or can he be upgraded to compete against the Porsches (or Bentley's - excuse the pun) of this World?

I mean, not so much Vyner but first season or loan spell he had some excellent recovery speed Kalas. Think he is better technically than he gets credit for albeit conservative.

Don't disagree on Vyner but Kalas hmm, his technical stats prior to joining us were strong albeit at Fulham under Jokanovic they indeed were a very possession heavy side which would influence that.

Leadership thing too, yes he won't necessarily lead. The injuries probably won't have helped either as pre injury I could have seen Kalas in a highish line but that would also require the right midfield and team setups etc.

[beaverface]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I mean, not so much Vyner but first season or loan spell he had some excellent recovery speed Kalas. Think he is better technically than he gets credit for albeit conservative.

Don't disagree on Vyner but Kalas hmm, his technical stats prior to joining us were strong albeit at Fulham under Jokanovic they indeed were a very possession heavy side which would influence that.

Leadership thing too, yes he won't necessarily lead. The injuries probably won't have helped either as pre injury I could have seen Kalas in a highish line but that would also require the right midfield and team setups etc.

Fair comment, and kind of aligns to what I was saying.

Thought Kalas started out strong at the beginning with us, I just feel he's either trying too hard to be anywhere and everywhere, and his distribution has shown up as not being so good the last season or two. However, that could be down to instructions from the manager, as Kalas has been hitting a lot of long balls rather than possession based football.

[Roger Red Hat]

28 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I could have seen Kalas in a highish line

I think that is one of the issues with Kalas, he doesn't seem to be that comfy in a high line. Even in his international team he was always the deepest in their defence.

At Fulham he was largely employed at full back, if I remember correctly.

[Davefevs]

47 minutes ago, beaverface said:

I think Kalas needs the right kind of defensive partner next to him. Thought he looked really good when on loan, and especially when he played next to Webster. However when he has lesser players next to him, he struggles to be the leader of the defence.

I've seen him described further up the trail as having Rolls Royce type of performances, but I see the opposite. What I see in Kalas is full blooded, aggressive, last ditch sliding tackles and blocks. His distribution hasn't been great, far from Rolls Royce, and yet if I compare to Vyner, I would say he's like a car that getting better the more we tune it. He's started to glide across the pitch, uses his pace and strength, and looks a very elegant player in the process. I suppose the decision the club have to figure out, is Vyner now tuned to the top end of his 1.6litre engine capacity, or can he be upgraded to compete against the Porsches (or Bentley's - excuse the pun) of this World?

I’m one of those who called him a Rolls-Royce…I think he’s effortlessly, quick and glides around, especially when covering.  I said his performances this season (albeit limited in number) were classy.  They’ve been nothing like you describe above…that was Kalas or recent seasons.  See next para.

I agree, think he’s struggled to lead, but I’d argue that it’s the deficiencies of others causing the problems.  Of course it’s disappointing that his game suffers when he’s not got as good defenders alongside him.  If you’d have had to play alongside Vyner and Moore of previous seasons, it’s not much of a surprise that you’re gonna be dragged all over the place.

On form, Kalas is a top defender.

The questions are about proposed availability vs wage offered.

I don’t think Vyner has got anywhere near to the level of Kalas at his best…and that’s not diminishing Zak’s improvement either.  Vyner didn’t even have a full-season at these new levels either.  Early season he was still having mistake-games.  He does appear to have got rid of this though, well done Zak.

[beaverface]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m one of those who called him a Rolls-Royce…I think he’s effortlessly, quick and glides around, especially when covering.  I said his performances this season (albeit limited in number) were classy.  They’ve been nothing like you describe above…that was Kalas or recent seasons.  See next para.

I agree, think he’s struggled to lead, but I’d argue that it’s the deficiencies of others causing the problems.  Of course it’s disappointing that his game suffers when he’s not got as good defenders alongside him.  If you’d have had to play alongside Vyner and Moore of previous seasons, it’s not much of a surprise that you’re gonna be dragged all over the place.

On form, Kalas is a top defender.

The questions are about proposed availability vs wage offered.

I don’t think Vyner has got anywhere near to the level of Kalas at his best…and that’s not diminishing Zak’s improvement either.  Vyner didn’t even have a full-season at these new levels either.  Early season he was still having mistake-games.  He does appear to have got rid of this though, well done Zak.

Some good points, and once again some I agree with, and some I don't - which is fine

I guess it's these observations that makse it a difficult task for the staff to justify, and type of contract offer to Kalas, as they've probably seen everything you and I have, plus more.

[Davefevs]

Yep, hence why I just sit here and think it’ll be what it’ll be, and I won’t be up or down either way.

[Mihai]

H

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Being a bit confrontational, just asking the question - did you watch Kalas this season?  I thought he was near the top of his game when he played.

Definitely up for debate re his injuries and possibly them recurring though.

Why have you omitted the other forwards in our squad?  Our top league scorer is still here btw.

I think Kalas will not be the same and his injuries will continue probably. His age is not 20 anymore so his recoveries it seems are not for long term. I like him but not for 25k week.

And for top league scorer, yeah but I still fele that we need a good striker.

[B-Rizzle]

Do we still think the Kalas offer will be on the table once Roberts signs? Do we still have the budget/ space for him? Particularly as NP likes a small squad?

Depth:

Pring

Atkinson, Roberts

Dickie, Vyner

Tanner, McRorie

Are we more likely to go back in for Currie or sign up Kalas? For me, there’s only space for one more body in that back line without things looking too ‘busy’.

Thoughts?

[NcnsBcfc]

The partnership he had with Webster was probably the best CB partnership I've seen us have since Merrick and Collier.

The last few years have not been great form wise as his own game before the injuries was affected by the chaos around him. Leading to the emotional outburst after the Barnsley game, and of course the giving up of the captaincy.

He is still a top defender at this level though, and hopefully will be able to put these injuries and move forward with his career again.

I would love to see him in a City shirt again, but the reality is, it has to be on our terms and on on a wage in line with our new budgets.

If he is able to accept those for whatever reason, I'm sure he will be welcomed back into the squad for next season. If not, we move on. It's simple really, as a club we are moving forward, and as NP has stated over the years, people now need to "be on the bus".

Edited June 13, 2023 by NcnsBcfc

[Edgy Red]

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m one of those who called him a Rolls-Royce…I think he’s effortlessly, quick and glides around, especially when covering.  I said his performances this season (albeit limited in number) were classy.  They’ve been nothing like you describe above…that was Kalas or recent seasons.  See next para.

I agree, think he’s struggled to lead, but I’d argue that it’s the deficiencies of others causing the problems.  Of course it’s disappointing that his game suffers when he’s not got as good defenders alongside him.  If you’d have had to play alongside Vyner and Moore of previous seasons, it’s not much of a surprise that you’re gonna be dragged all over the place.

On form, Kalas is a top defender.

The questions are about proposed availability vs wage offered.

I don’t think Vyner has got anywhere near to the level of Kalas at his best…and that’s not diminishing Zak’s improvement either.  Vyner didn’t even have a full-season at these new levels either.  Early season he was still having mistake-games.  He does appear to have got rid of this though, well done Zak.

Good summary Dave... Kalas is a better defender than Vyner and i think a Dickie/Kalas pairing at the start of next season would be decent.

Without a doubt Zak improved last season but if Kalas does agree a new deal then i would be happy with him and Dickie. When Atkinson is fully fit it will give us a number of good options which we certainly didn't have at times last year.

[Bourne End Red]

2 hours ago, Mihai said:

H

I think Kalas will not be the same and his injuries will continue probably. His age is not 20 anymore so his recoveries it seems are not for long term. I like him but not for 25k week.

And for top league scorer, yeah but I still fele that we need a good striker.

He won’t be offered 25k a week mate. Probably less than half that.

[Son of Fred]

4 minutes ago, Bourne End Red said:

He won’t be offered 25k a week mate. Probably less than half that.

I have been led to believe on good authority that Kalas has been offered 12k per week....

[Bristol Oil Services]

On 12/06/2023 at 14:25, Ecko said:

It isn't speculation. It's what he has been offered. I am not surprised he is considering his options. 

For what it is worth, he is currently building a large property in Bristol, and he has no real desire to leave. His partner is Bristol born and bred, and she wants to stay too. 

Interesting, thanks. What we need to know, then, is: is he using South Bristol scaffolders? Can you find that out? Because if he isn't .....

[bcdc]

4 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Interesting, thanks. What we need to know, then, is: is he using South Bristol scaffolders? Can you find that out? Because if he isn't .....

I live in Nottingham, and down the pub at lunchtime that was about the only subject being discussed.  The Crown in Beeston is with you, Oil (or should that be Services?j

[Bristol Oil Services]

52 minutes ago, bcdc said:

I live in Nottingham, and down the pub at lunchtime that was about the only subject being discussed.  The Crown in Beeston is with you, Oil (or should that be Services?j

Oil is, er, good (as it were) bc

[DaveF]

58 minutes ago, bcdc said:

I live in Nottingham, and down the pub at lunchtime that was about the only subject being discussed.  The Crown in Beeston is with you, Oil (or should that be Services?j

Top notch pub.

[Mendip City]

20 hours ago, B-Rizzle said:

Do we still think the Kalas offer will be on the table once Roberts signs? Do we still have the budget/ space for him? Particularly as NP likes a small squad?

Depth:

Pring

Atkinson, Roberts

Dickie, Vyner

Tanner, McRorie

Are we more likely to go back in for Currie or sign up Kalas? For me, there’s only space for one more body in that back line without things looking too ‘busy’.

Thoughts?

This got me thinking…. I don’t think we know the length of contract Kalas will have been offered. Could be as little as 6 months to cover Atkinson and prove his own fitness…. Then take it from there. Maybe triggering an extension if he passes X number of games. That wouldn’t seem an unreasonable approach to me. 

[steviestevieneville]

7 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

This got me thinking…. I don’t think we know the length of contract Kalas will have been offered. Could be as little as 6 months to cover Atkinson and prove his own fitness…. Then take it from there. Maybe triggering an extension if he passes X number of games. That wouldn’t seem an unreasonable approach to me. 

That would be insulting . There’s no way he’s been offered 6 months imo  . Two years with a third option would be my guess , although a year with another year if he plays 20 games maybe . 

[Merrick's Marvels]

56 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

This got me thinking…. I don’t think we know the length of contract Kalas will have been offered. Could be as little as 6 months to cover Atkinson and prove his own fitness…. Then take it from there. Maybe triggering an extension if he passes X number of games. That wouldn’t seem an unreasonable approach to me. 

If we've offered him a contract, I'd be inclined to think our medical dept are satisfied Kalas is fit and, given some luck (and I put his injury at Cardiff down to damn bad luck), he will remain so. 

That being the case, he's our best defender. And you don't piss around offering silly contracts to your best players. 

We've made him an offer we can afford but he might refuse - because it's significantly less than his last one and there might be a better one somewhere else for him.

I really hope not. 

He's one of very few players we have who shout "Top 6". And that's where we're aiming, right?

Edited June 14, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels