Lansdown - decision time

[Shuffle]

So in the last 6 months we have lost the following from our wage bill;

Klose, Martin, Semenyo, Bentley, HNM, Baker, Wilson, Scott, JD, Moore, Kalas & reduced Wells salary by potentially half.

We’ve added Cornick, Memehti, Roberts,McCrorie, Knight & Dickie & increased cost base with new deals for Atkinson/Tanner.

Not only have we significantly reduced wage bill but also reduced squad depth to currently 19 available to choose from (inc 2 academy defenders & Yeboah).  
 

Also generated £35m in transfers out & lost our 2 best players in process & spent £5.5m on new recruits.

Im sure @Mr Popodopolous & @Davefevs can be more concise with projected savings & if I’ve missed anything. Whilst some of the signings have yet to prove their value (jury out still) surely if we are going to progress now is the time to release some funds and review any internal targets associated with wage bill limits.

I know this is easy for me to say as it’s not my money but I’m cannot see how we can progress this season without further funds & whilst I’m not always happy with Nige, he continues to work with handcuffs on.  Nobody expects us to go to the Ashton days of huge signings/wages but not sure how we progress. Time will tell which way he went. 

 

[glynriley]

5 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

So in the last 6 months we have lost the following from our wage bill;

Klose, Martin, Semenyo, Bentley, HNM, Baker, Wilson, Scott, JD, Moore, Kalas & reduced Wells salary by potentially half.

We’ve added Cornick, Memehti, Roberts,McCrorie, Knight & Dickie & increased cost base with new deals for Atkinson/Tanner.

Not only have we significantly reduced wage bill but also reduced squad depth to currently 19 available to choose from (inc 2 academy defenders & Yeboah).  
 

Also generated £35m in transfers out & lost our 2 best players in process & spent £5.5m on new recruits.

Im sure @Mr Popodopolous & @Davefevs can be more concise with projected savings & if I’ve missed anything. Whilst some of the signings have yet to prove their value (jury out still) surely if we are going to progress now is the time to release some funds and review any internal targets associated with wage bill limits.

I know this is easy for me to say as it’s not my money but I’m cannot see how we can progress this season without further funds & whilst I’m not always happy with Nige, he continues to work with handcuffs on.  Nobody expects us to go to the Ashton days of huge signings/wages but not sure how we progress. Time will tell which way he went. 

 

Said after the game on Saturday, after a comment about the pressure growing on NP, I think if we don't bring at least 2 in before the end of the window, the pressure starts to build on SL.

[petehinton]

I think this is the point where it really highlights just how ****** we were when Nige came in. All those players gone or revised, and we’re still probably not in the greatest of places. 

[fisherrich]

Also if Lansdown is planning to sell up, then the purse strings will be tight for Nige. I get the impression Lansdown is losing interest in the football side of Bristol City FC. Only time will tell. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

4 minutes ago, glynriley said:

Said after the game on Saturday, after a comment about the pressure growing on NP, I think if we don't bring at least 2 in before the end of the window, the pressure starts to build on SL.

Nige's kept his part of the bargain with 2+ years of jettisoning the high earners along with very limited spending and now that's been achieved the pressure should all be on the club/SL to keep their side of it. Which presumably was to give reasonable backing (to Nige, not the next bloke) when finances allowed.

Fans understand what NP has done and how his hands are largely tied and, if nothing changes, any frustrated booing will increasingly be directed at SL imo.

[GrahamC]

Think we are at a very interesting point.

Saturday’s squad was missing Conway, Weimann, Atkinson & McCrorie, which is probably only about one above average in terms of absences yet of our 9 subs 5 have never started a Championship game & 3 haven’t featured in one at all. Another of the subs was Andy King, who we know is near to the end of his playing days & only there to provide experience & avoid it resembling an U21 team bench.

SL said that if Pearson sold players he could expect funds, but the disparity between sales (& in addition to this moving the likes of Wilson & Low off the wage bill) & our incomings is stark.

Whatever the Bolton lad who opted to stay ever does in the game the fact he was our initial target tells a lot about what type of player Pearson is now being expected to work with.

I am very grateful for his investment in the infrastructure & cash flow but a sale to another owner cannot come quickly enough.

[Sir Geoff]

30 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

So in the last 6 months we have lost the following from our wage bill;

Klose, Martin, Semenyo, Bentley, HNM, Baker, Wilson, Scott, JD, Moore, Kalas & reduced Wells salary by potentially half.

We’ve added Cornick, Memehti, Roberts,McCrorie, Knight & Dickie & increased cost base with new deals for Atkinson/Tanner.

Not only have we significantly reduced wage bill but also reduced squad depth to currently 19 available to choose from (inc 2 academy defenders & Yeboah).  
 

Also generated £35m in transfers out & lost our 2 best players in process & spent £5.5m on new recruits.

Im sure @Mr Popodopolous & @Davefevs can be more concise with projected savings & if I’ve missed anything. Whilst some of the signings have yet to prove their value (jury out still) surely if we are going to progress now is the time to release some funds and review any internal targets associated with wage bill limits.

I know this is easy for me to say as it’s not my money but I’m cannot see how we can progress this season without further funds & whilst I’m not always happy with Nige, he continues to work with handcuffs on.  Nobody expects us to go to the Ashton days of huge signings/wages but not sure how we progress. Time will tell which way he went. 

 

And Weimann. Trouble is by reducing the wage bill we are now roughly where we should have been 3 years ago before Ashton splashed the cash and left us up the creek without a paddle.

[spudski]

Ive got a gut feeling from comments made recently, that much of the money made won't be released. 

NP in his last year of contract. Talking of life away from football. 

SL talking of building a ' nest egg'. 

I feels like both are keeping their cards close to their chest, waiting for different outcomes. 

NP says he thinks with these present players at hand, that we will do better than last season. 

SL maybe watching how well we do up to Xmas. And if doing well may release more funds in January. 

Or if underachieving...bring in a new manager and give him the funds to use. 

[Bedred31]

SL is 71 next week. That’s over a decade older than NP, who himself was talking last week about age, time and bucket lists.This will just be a number for many on here, but when your a bit older you have a profound sense of time and time running out. I’m sure SL desperately wants to see City in the top flight again, because like me he can remember 76-80 clearly. But if I were him, with probably a bit more active, healthy time left and 1.8 billion in the bank, I’d be looking to offload the hassle of City. Like a shot, frankly, given that I could still go to any game, anywhere whenever I want. I suspect that’s where SL has understandably got too.I think it’s to his credit that he appears to be approaching the sale ( because he’s publicly been open to offers for several years) carefully and without an obvious desire to sell to the first outfit, however questionable, that promises to protect his investment.

[Nogbad the Bad]

3 minutes ago, Bedred31 said:

SL is 71 next week. That’s over a decade older than NP, who himself was talking last week about age, time and bucket lists.This will just be a number for many on here, but when your a bit older you have a profound sense of time and time running out. I’m sure SL desperately wants to see City in the top flight again, because like me he can remember 76-80 clearly. 

Did SL watch games or even have any interest in BCFC in that period?

 

[Merrick's Marvels]

59 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

Not only have we significantly reduced wage bill but also reduced squad depth to currently 19 available to choose from (inc 2 academy defenders & Yeboah).  

We've reduced our quality as well. 

Semenyo, Scott, Kalas, Baker would walk into any other team in our division.

The various reasons for them leaving are not the point. The point is that none of them have been replaced with equivalent quality. 

That's fine if you give their replacements time to develop but how realistic is it to lose players of that quality, mostly replace them with lower league greenhorns, and still talk about the play-offs? 

Put another way, how many teams have ever been promoted with a side full of inexperienced novices and cheap pick ups from the lower leagues?

Personally, I'm fine with finishing 10th (optimistic, judging on performances so far). I get why the official line is "we can make the play-offs" as you've got to be seen to be ambitious and pushing standards upwards.

But a team that has so many players still "learning the game" doesn't strike me as promotion material. I get why we have so many of these types - just think we, the fanbase, should be more realistic about what they can achieve in the short term.  

Edited August 21, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[Merrick's Marvels]

14 minutes ago, Bedred31 said:

 I’m sure SL desperately wants to see City in the top flight again, because like me he can remember 76-80 clearly. 

He had no interest in BCFC at all !!!!!!!!

His son badgered him into taking him in the late 1980s.

The only memories Lansdown might have of the 1970s are of going to Eastvile !!

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[Wrongagain]

Manager perhaps not being backed? Been there before, just before SL brought in  a manager and a CEO whose rivalry did a hatchet job on our finances - SL’s decision and strange control of finances, the supporters are of no importance!

[2015]

As I've said on another thread - you cannot sell two proven match winners in Scott and Semenyo for 35 million and not adequately replace them.

We have made signings to increase the quantity of the squad but not replaced with enough quality to replace those two players. 

You don't progress in the Championship for cheap and to have a chance of making the playoffs you absolutely need a goalscorer, which we don't currently have.

[beaverface]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Ive got a gut feeling from comments made recently, that much of the money made won't be released. 

NP in his last year of contract. Talking of life away from football. 

SL talking of building a ' nest egg'. 

I feels like both are keeping their cards close to their chest, waiting for different outcomes. 

NP says he thinks with these present players at hand, that we will do better than last season. 

SL maybe watching how well we do up to Xmas. And if doing well may release more funds in January. 

Or if underachieving...bring in a new manager and give him the funds to use. 

Been thinking something similar myself.

Normally when you have a player we rate in the last year of their contract, we get that contract renewal offer onto the table ASAP. NP is in his last year, and we've heard nothing.

The talk of nest eggs, does make you wonder whether SL is waiting for this season to be over, so he can then bring in another manager and back them to the hilt with all the savings NP has had to make, and so we rinse and repeat the last n years!

Difficult to understand what's going on, especially with both NP and SL both being very guarded with what they say about each other.

Not particularly over enamoured by Phil Alexander either, surely there should be statements from him also to set expectations. We seemed to have gone from the extreme (Ashton) who couldn't wait to blag, to the perfect (Gould), who was just about right with the amount of news he fed out, to the other extreme (Alexander) who we don't hear a jot from.

[Bris Red]

3 minutes ago, beaverface said:

 

The talk of nest eggs, does make you wonder whether SL is waiting for this season to be over, so he can then bring in another manager and back them to the hilt with all the savings NP has had to make, and so we rinse and repeat the last n years!

This is my huge worry. With Lansdowns track record of hiring managers i have little to no faith that whoever Nige’s successor will be is going to be the answer.

I think the next couple of weeks will pretty much tell us what the owner thinks of Pearson. He has to be backed 100% IMO.

[Bristol Oil Services]

8 minutes ago, beaverface said:

Been thinking something similar myself.

Normally when you have a player we rate in the last year of their contract, we get that contract renewal offer onto the table ASAP. NP is in his last year, and we've heard nothing.

The talk of nest eggs, does make you wonder whether SL is waiting for this season to be over, so he can then bring in another manager and back them to the hilt with all the savings NP has had to make, and so we rinse and repeat the last n years!

Difficult to understand what's going on, especially with both NP and SL both being very guarded with what they say about each other.

Not particularly over enamoured by Phil Alexander either, surely there should be statements from him also to set expectations. We seemed to have gone from the extreme (Ashton) who couldn't wait to blag, to the perfect (Gould), who was just about right with the amount of news he fed out, to the other extreme (Alexander) who we don't hear a jot from.

You seem to be saying or thinking that Phil Alexander is here for us, the supporters? Is he not here in fact to do a job for Steve?

[beaverface]

1 minute ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

You seem to be saying or thinking that Phil Alexander is here for us, the supporters? Is he not here in fact to do a job for Steve?

I seem to think that SL is the mouthpiece for the club, rather than the mouthpiece being the person employed to be.

[Gert Mare]

1 hour ago, Bedred31 said:

SL is 71 next week. That’s over a decade older than NP, who himself was talking last week about age, time and bucket lists.This will just be a number for many on here, but when your a bit older you have a profound sense of time and time running out. I’m sure SL desperately wants to see City in the top flight again, because like me he can remember 76-80 clearly. But if I were him, with probably a bit more active, healthy time left and 1.8 billion in the bank, I’d be looking to offload the hassle of City. Like a shot, frankly, given that I could still go to any game, anywhere whenever I want. I suspect that’s where SL has understandably got too.I think it’s to his credit that he appears to be approaching the sale ( because he’s publicly been open to offers for several years) carefully and without an obvious desire to sell to the first outfit, however questionable, that promises to protect his investment.

The problem is that he wants to sell ‘Bristol Sport’ which nobody is interested in.

They would be interested in Bristol City, but not the other sports I’d imagine?

[A Horse With No Name]

Strange how views can change in just a few weeks. Back at the beginning of August we were saying that the players we had bought were quality acquisitions,  and how we had cover for every position. Play offs were seemingly a possiblity especially  with the soundbites coming from the club.

Here we are, three short games later panicking about shoehorning somebody into the left centre back slot, once again playing players out of position, and the spine of the side looking weaker than it has for years. 

[Supersonic Robin]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Or if underachieving...bring in a new manager and give him the funds to use. 

Another concern is how the Lansdowns define 'underachievement'.

I recall a couple of years ago we had a minor (but public) disagreement between Pearson and JL about how well the club should expect to be doing that season.

Now, as has been pointed out by others, SL appears to believe that Luton provide sufficient evidence that a manager can achieve promotion with little financial backing. 

The Lansdowns still seem completely unwilling or completely unable to acknowledge the mess that Pearson inherited, and the struggles he's faced as a result.

[Riaz]

2 hours ago, petehinton said:

I think this is the point where it really highlights just how ****** we were when Nige came in. All those players gone or revised, and we’re still probably not in the greatest of places. 

I think we need to accept we are one of the smaller clubs in the division and therefore, we cant sustain a wage bill to compete with most teams.

Most teams have been in the prem and gained all the resourses that comes with that (inclduing parachute) or they get much bigger crowds.

We got the money - but we dont want to commit to long term big wages,

Edited August 21, 2023 by Riaz

[One Team]

2 hours ago, glynriley said:

Said after the game on Saturday, after a comment about the pressure growing on NP, I think if we don't bring at least 2 in before the end of the window, the pressure starts to build on SL.

Agreed. I am surprised at the pressure on NP to be honest, the pressure should be (more) on SL. 

[Alessandro]

Any sense of going for it in the transfer market is out of the question. Another 1 or 2 shrewd additions, more likely.

If, as discussed, SL is looking to sell the club, it will be much better to do so with a ‘cleaner’ slate FFP wise, therefore making it a more financially viable proposition for any future investor/owner. 

I think this is the thing that frustrates me more than anything, all this talk of top 6, but the reality is the playing squad is no where near in terms of investment and wages.
 

So it’s the lottery again of can we be that one team that defies logic and all the odds to make the play offs or even promotion. Not looking like it quite yet this season.

[Wedontplayinblue]

I think people need to understand also, that the % of money invested by Lansdown compared to his overall wealth is quite low.

If a fan is on minimum wage, they take home a year £17,841 after tax

If they got a lansdown stand season ticket, that’s £695, which is 3.9% of their annual money.

3.9% of lansdowns reported wealth, which is £1.18 BILLION but lets call it a mere £1billion for easier maths is Forty Million, that’s just todays wealth not what he might be earning yearly. 

In the grand scheme, city can be funded by him on a tiny fraction of his overall wealth. 

[M.D]

Ive had a feeling for a while he's not that keen on NP and wants Mark Robins.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

I think people need to understand also, that the % of money invested by Lansdown compared to his overall wealth is quite low.

If a fan is on minimum wage, they take home a year £17,841 after tax

If they got a lansdown stand season ticket, that’s £695, which is 3.9% of their annual money.

3.9% of lansdowns reported wealth, which is £1.18 BILLION but lets call it a mere £1billion for easier maths is Forty Million, that’s just todays wealth not what he might be earning yearly. 

In the grand scheme, city can be funded by him on a tiny fraction of his overall wealth. 

Although on the flipside, it's a sign of  broken model in general- an organisation turning over £25-30m, or perhaps even £10-15m shouldn't require owner input.

By all means for big ticket infrastructure but not to keep the lights on. Industry is where it is however.

[Wedontplayinblue]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Although on the flipside, it's a sign of  broken model in general- an organisation turning over £25-30m, or perhaps even £10-15m shouldn't require owner input.

By all means for big ticket infrastructure but not to keep the lights on. Industry is where it is however.

It goes to show even more though, that if lansdown is putting £10mill a year in then it’s even less % of his net worth, we’re down to 1% of it.

On % wise, the city fan on minimum wage is putting more of his annual wage into city, with lansdown it’s just money we could never grasp. 

[Rocky]

10 minutes ago, M.D said:

Ive had a feeling for a while he's not that keen on NP and wants Mark Robins.

Robins is his dream appointment and has been for years and years.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

It goes to show even more though, that if lansdown is putting £10mill a year in then it’s even less % of his net worth, we’re down to 1% of it.

On % wise, the city fan on minimum wage is putting more of his annual wage into city, with lansdown it’s just money we could never grasp. 

The model is broken however yes that is a good point but on the flipside without and the same goes for numerous clubs, the owner input the clubs would be in a very difficult position. Or bust.