Lansdown - decision time

[red panda]

33 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

This is my huge worry. With Lansdowns track record of hiring managers i have little to no faith that whoever Nige’s successor will be is going to be the answer.

I think the next couple of weeks will pretty much tell us what the owner thinks of Pearson. He has to be backed 100% IMO.

Here we go again.  Sorry to pick on you, but my heart sinks so much when I read this kind of thing.  Have you noticed all the other chairs in the Championship making successful appointment after successful appointment?  Perhaps not.  Or have you noticed that only three current Championship managers have been in post for two years or more (and, yes, Nigel is one of them).  Lee Johnson is Marmite on steroids on this board, but I still maintain he was a pretty good appointment (especially considering the state we were in when he took over).  Dean Holden wasn't successful, but was replaced quite quickly and other clubs have gone on to hire him.  We are now an established Championship club, which is huge progress over not that long ago.  And while not all of SL's appointments have succeeded, he hasn't wrecked the club in the way that, say, Southampton's owners have after deciding that Nathan Jones was the man to take them forward .

There is no easy recipe for appointing a successful manager.  I contend that, actually, our record isn't that bad at all.  For every Mark Robins there are many other disasters.

[Numero Uno]

44 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

You seem to be saying or thinking that Phil Alexander is here for us, the supporters? Is he not here in fact to do a job for Steve?

He is but the issue is what does he do? We all knew what Ashton did because he shouted it from the rooftops. Gould to me is a huge loss, someone who worked in the background getting stuff done then conveying it to the fans at the right time. Alexander is Captain Silence.

[Supersonic Robin]

29 minutes ago, Riaz said:

I think we need to accept we are one of the smaller clubs in the division and therefore, we cant sustain a wage bill to compete with most teams.

Most teams have been in the prem and gained all the resourses that comes with that (inclduing parachute) or they get much bigger crowds.

We got the money - but we dont want to commit to long term big wages,

Have to say that I don't think this is true at all. I find it strange that our club and fanbase are often so self deprecating about our size and ability to compete at this level (nothing against you personally, Riaz).

Granted, I'll give you parachute payments - that gives other teams a big advantage over us. Nevertheless, we're nowhere near the minnows that some suggest we are.

Last season we had the 7th highest average attendance in the league (especially impressive considering our form over the last few years) - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/besucherzahlen/wettbewerb/GB2/saison_id/2022.

I don't have the numbers on it, but I also gather that our revenues have been great since the AG redevelopment, often some of the best in the league when you ignore things like parachute payments.

The idea that we're too small, too poor, or don't have enough fans to compete with other teams at this level is ludicrous. We are, at worst, an average sized club in this division.

The one thing that makes other clubs 'bigger' than us (and in many cases, richer than us), is that they have actually achieved something with their potential, whereas we haven't.

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Supersonic Robin

[Mr Popodopolous]

Without getting bogged down financially.

FFP issues are past now. If any were lingering Scott sale has pushed that away and for years.

We could spend a lot. In theory we could. Whether we should is a different debate entirely.

Definitely need to put some of that Scott money back in however. 2-3 signings, both in terms of quality and depth are required IMO- slightly more if it contains longer term projects such as Murphy and Thomason.

[lenred]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Without getting bogged down financially.

FFP issues are past now. If any were lingering Scott sale has pushed that away and for years.

We could spend a lot. In theory we could. Whether we should is a different debate entirely.

Definitely need to put some of that Scott money back in however. 2-3 signings, both in terms of quality and depth are required IMO- slightly more if it contains longer term projects such as Murphy and Thomason.

Completely agree - especially in midfield where we are crying out for quality,  but the silence on any activity bar Kalas re-signing is deafening.  Appreciate that the club will want to conduct negotiations quietly but we usually get some sort of signal that something is happening and we’re getting nothing.   With such little time left in the window it’s becoming a bit of a worry. 

[Fred89]

3 hours ago, glynriley said:

Said after the game on Saturday, after a comment about the pressure growing on NP, I think if we don't bring at least 2 in before the end of the window, the pressure starts to build on SL.

It’s not pressure it his club and his money, it’s Just frustrating bein lied to about being competitive and fooled in to buying a season ticket only for our best players to be sold as soon as they have one good season ! Always after pre-season seemingly 

It doesn’t have to be the norm these are our players show some ambition 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Fred89

[BCFC31]

3 hours ago, Shuffle said:

So in the last 6 months we have lost the following from our wage bill;

Klose, Martin, Semenyo, Bentley, HNM, Baker, Wilson, Scott, JD, Moore, Kalas & reduced Wells salary by potentially half.

We’ve added Cornick, Memehti, Roberts,McCrorie, Knight & Dickie & increased cost base with new deals for Atkinson/Tanner.

Not only have we significantly reduced wage bill but also reduced squad depth to currently 19 available to choose from (inc 2 academy defenders & Yeboah).  
 

Also generated £35m in transfers out & lost our 2 best players in process & spent £5.5m on new recruits.

Im sure @Mr Popodopolous & @Davefevs can be more concise with projected savings & if I’ve missed anything. Whilst some of the signings have yet to prove their value (jury out still) surely if we are going to progress now is the time to release some funds and review any internal targets associated with wage bill limits.

I know this is easy for me to say as it’s not my money but I’m cannot see how we can progress this season without further funds & whilst I’m not always happy with Nige, he continues to work with handcuffs on.  Nobody expects us to go to the Ashton days of huge signings/wages but not sure how we progress. Time will tell which way he went. 

 

Weimann renewed on reduced terms aswell.

[algenon2007]

Didn't NP state we could not compete with other teams wages. Meaning we wont get the quality back into the squad.

We need to find some lower division gems....

Edited August 21, 2023 by algenon2007

[Der no.2]

Silvio Dante posted an interview on 12/08/23, which reveals the extent of SL's ambition.

https://x.com/gsypresssport/status/1690264686258716672?s=46&t=oNPHaJCf-XZnPFOJQiVJjg

 

 

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

19 minutes ago, Fred89 said:

It’s not pressure it his club and his money, it’s Just frustrating bein lied to about being competitive and fooled in to buying a season ticket only for our best players to be sold as soon as they have one good season ! Always after pre-season seemingly 

It doesn’t have to be the norm these are our players show some ambition 

In the past FFP was a big factor, the last time we went big was 2019-20 albeit the wage bill hit its peak in 2020-21, £35m (Group wage bill). This is a little reductive IMO.

FFP concerns have passed but I do fear he might be backing the wrong horse a bit- dynamic has changed even in the last month across the League, lots of PL loanees entering e.g.

The horse I fear he has backed is wages and inbound  continuing to remain sensible and subduded. Swansea e.g. have added PL loanees in that time- 2/3, 70 pct of our income, Piroe remains, 3rd year in row minus Parachute Payments.

Hull, Preston, Stoke are three midtable sides who have stepped it up. Coventry given their big sales are obvious granted, market seems to be heating up again.

SL will have banked on a couple of key factors as part of the plan I believe.

The other is now that the Work Permit regime for players who may not qualify has been liberalised subject to some criteria.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Superjack]

I expect Pearson to be gone in a month. And that will be me done.

[Riaz]

46 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Have to say that I don't think this is true at all. I find it strange that our club and fanbase are often so self deprecating about our size and ability to compete at this level (nothing against you personally, Riaz).

Granted, I'll give you parachute payments - that gives other teams a big advantage over us. Nevertheless, we're nowhere near the minnows that some suggest we are.

Last season we had the 7th highest average attendance in the league (especially impressive considering our form over the last few years) - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/besucherzahlen/wettbewerb/GB2/saison_id/2022.

I don't have the numbers on it, but I also gather that our revenues have been great since the AG redevelopment, often some of the best in the league when you ignore things like parachute payments.

The idea that we're too small, too poor, or don't have enough fans to compete with other teams at this level is ludicrous. We are, at worst, an average sized club in this division.

The one thing that makes other clubs 'bigger' than us (and in many cases, richer than us), is that they have actually achieved something with their potential, whereas we haven't.

 

To be fair, i didnt know we had the 7th highest attendance.

But how many havent been in the prem recently AND have lower crowds than us? I havent got time to look - but i cant imagine its many.

ps i'm talking purely financial. Because thats what effects our wage budget.

3 minutes ago, Superjack said:

I expect Pearson to be gone in a month. And that will be me done.

Based on?

[Shauntaylor85]

3 hours ago, petehinton said:

I think this is the point where it really highlights just how ****** we were when Nige came in. All those players gone or revised, and we’re still probably not in the greatest of places. 

SL doesn’t see it like that though does he. He appears to think we should be doing better, JL said the same last season. However it wasn’t Nige fault that the previous regime threw money at average players who all ended up going for £0!!

[Superjack]

4 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Based on?

Nothing, admittedly. Apart from Lansdown's form and NP's personality.

[Riaz]

9 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Nothing, admittedly. Apart from Lansdown's form and NP's personality.

Hope you are wrong!

[W-S-M Seagull]

It does concern me that there is seemingly no transfer activity at present. 

[Oh Louie louie]

Well said superjack, no contact offer for nige concerns me, he has predicted top six this year, bold, but brave, maybe we will see about that by December, I fear you could be right though 

[Mr Popodopolous]

@Riaz

Not just about the crowds now, our commercial revenue for a non Parachute, non PL recently is very good.

Was virtually recovered to full capacity our total BCFC Holdings revenue in 2021-22, not far away from 2018-19 levels.

I fully accept we can't compete with Parachute bolstered clubs in the main, I also accept the case for a bit more caution given the recent past but I can't accept claims that competing financially with Coventry and Middlesbrough is beyond us.

Could list a clutch of others. Again we have to be sensible but..

Edited August 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Supersonic Robin]

9 minutes ago, Riaz said:

To be fair, i didnt know we had the 7th highest attendance.

But how many havent been in the prem recently AND have lower crowds than us? I havent got time to look - but i cant imagine its many.

ps i'm talking purely financial. Because thats what effects our wage budget.

Going off of that list* I think it's only Burnley and Watford who have been in the prem recently enough to be receiving parachute payments. So that's 15 teams with lower attendances and not currently receiving parachute payments. Also note that Stoke's average attendance was only 200 fans greater than ours, so realistically they're pretty much on a level pegging with us too. 

Even with parachute payments, we have to acknowledge that they're a consequence of achievement (that's not to say I like or agree with them). No doubt in a few years we'll be complaining that "we can't compete with teams like Luton who get given parachute payments"............but the question then arises - why do Luton get parachute payments and we don't?

Of course there are other financial factors that have affected us in recent years. There are also teams who we genuinely will struggle to compete with financially (e.g. Leeds). However, in general, club size/wealth is not something that should hold us back at all IMO.

* https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/besucherzahlen/wettbewerb/GB2/saison_id/2022

[sludge]

1 hour ago, Rocky said:

Robins is his dream appointment and has been for years and years.

I agree. Surely though there is zero chance of that happening any time soon, or even at the end of season? He will have better offers than us if/when he leaves Cov. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by sludge

[Superjack]

14 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Hope you are wrong!

Me too.

[sh1t_ref_again]

4 hours ago, Shuffle said:

 

I know this is easy for me to say as it’s not my money but I’m cannot see how we can progress this season without further funds & whilst I’m not always happy with Nige, he continues to work with handcuffs on.  Nobody expects us to go to the Ashton days of huge signings/wages but not sure how we progress. Time will tell which way he went. 

 

Thank you for the insight from within the boardroom

Or do you think the club should be shouting from the rooftops, hey everyone look at all this Alex Scott money we can't wait to spend, just tell us how much you want extra for your players

Or of course you could wait to see what happens between now and the end of the transfer window, (but that may not get the same reaction as it does after a dull loss), if we sign anyone, but as NP has said its about the right players being available and he will not sign someone for the sake of it.

By handcuffs are you including restrictions on players wages, because I think that is as much to do with NP than anyone else, if you listen to his early interviews he talked of not being healthy having large wage disparity 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Thank you for the insight from within the boardroom

Or do you think the club should be shouting from the rooftops, hey everyone look at all this Alex Scott money we can't wait to spend, just tell us how much you want extra for your players

Or of course you could wait to see what happens between now and the end of the transfer window, (but that may not get the same reaction as it does after a dull loss), if we sign anyone, but as NP has said its about the right players being available and he will not sign someone for the sake of it.

By handcuffs are you including restrictions on players wages, because I think that is as much to do with NP than anyone else, if you listen to his early interviews he talked of not being healthy having large wage disparity 

This is all quite fair too but it could give us some short to medium term frustrations as fans if this is a plan of the medium term.

I wonder what exactly the plan is however.  Styles, Willock linked- quiet. Bird was linked to us and Hull, our injured 2-3 months.

Thomason turned us down, Murphy who knows if anything there.

[One Team]

44 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Nothing, admittedly. Apart from Lansdown's form and NP's personality.

Agreed, you can easily see a “back me or sack me” conversation happening, if not already. 

[Sleepy1968]

27 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Well said superjack, no contact offer for nige concerns me, he has predicted top six this year, bold, but brave, maybe we will see about that by December, I fear you could be right though 

As others have said, I don’t see that SL wants to renew NP's contract. Neither do I think NP particularly enjoys losing his best players with the expectation of league one replacements if he's lucky.

So, he'll likely be gone by the end of the season, and I think if he isn't backed to sign a couple of decent players in the next 10 days, he might want to to jack it in early. And I don't see SL standing in his way.

[Rocky]

SL was the one who initiated contact with NP in the first place.  I can't imagine there's anybody in football (or outside for that matter) that is not aware of NP's prickly exterior, even though he's supposed to be the opposite if you're on the inside!  So SL will be fully aware of who Nige is and the possibility of disagreements.  I think it's healthy for an employee to challenge people up the ladder, and those up the ladder should equally like a challenge (they are likely to have had huge challenges in business in order to be successful?!) 

I did wonder if NP fancies a move upstairs, he has bought a house in the area and seems to love it.  With all the talk of his bucket list etc, perhaps he would prefer a mentor/DOF type of role.

 

[Oh Louie louie]

Yep, to say niges patience been, tested is being kind, this probably won't surprise you sleepy, but it wouldn't surprise me to see another prodigy sold, and nobody in

[ExiledAjax]

39 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

As others have said, I don’t see that SL wants to renew NP's contract. Neither do I think NP particularly enjoys losing his best players with the expectation of league one replacements if he's lucky.

So, he'll likely be gone by the end of the season, and I think if he isn't backed to sign a couple of decent players in the next 10 days, he might want to to jack it in early. And I don't see SL standing in his way.

I'm not so sure, my impression is that Pearson is a "see it through to the end" kind of guy. I've said for a while I don't think he'll be with us next season, but I think he'll see out his contract.

Honestly, if that is what is happening here then I'd hope the club take the opportunity to have a measured, calm and well handled handover. Change manager outside of a crisis, to someone who can take the ship that Pearson has steadied and unleash it's potential with the wind in its sails.

Edited August 21, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Johnny Musicworks]

9 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I'm not so sure, my impression is that Pearson is a "see it through to the end" kind of guy. I've said for a while I don't think he'll be with us next season, but I think he'll see put his contract.

Honestly, if that is what is happening here then I'd hope the club take the opportunity to have a measured, calm and well handled handover. Change manager outside of a crisis, to someone who can take the ship that Pearson has steadied and unleash it's potential with the wind in its sails.

I feel the same. He is not the sort who will sign up for another 3 years and then leave after one. After losing several friends recently I would not be surprised if he has already decided not to renew and to get started on his bucket list. I wouldn’t blame him at all and it might suit all parties.

[ExiledAjax]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

I feel the same. He is not the sort who will sign up for another 3 years and then leave after one. After losing several friends recently I would not be surprised if he has already decided not to renew and to get started on his bucket list. I wouldn’t blame him at all and it might suit all parties.

Likewise.

We all know that over the next few months 20-30 football managers will lose their jobs across the PL and EFL, and that there will be a few in the EFL who do very well with smaller clubs and look like options for poaching. I won't name names or offer up options, but there will be a few very good people that we could speak to who will be very serious candidates for taking this club forward should the Pearson era end in 2024.

There's also internal promotion as an option, and I just hope that we can use the time to decide on the best course forward.

All presumptuous chit chat and speculation that may prove useless if Pearson signs up for another 2 or 3 years.