Lansdown

[Sleepy1968]

28 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Absolutely, SO'D was very positive, yet didn't work out (although Pack, Flint...both for a song

Hmm. SOD didn't seem very interested in keeping us in the Championship - it might have been too late, but I thought we went down with a whimper.

Did he have much to do with recruitment? I thought he said we spent a ludicrous amount on Flint, and that he wouldn't have bothered (at the price).

[fisherrich]

The chickens have come home to roost with Lansdown. Most on here see through Lansdown nowadays.

He will recoup most of what he has invested financially in the Bristol Sport business when he sells up. I for one want to see a new owner, but more importantly someone who actually takes an interest in the progress of the football club by connecting with the fans. Bristol is crying out for a decent football team, rather than tinpot backwater football.
Fed up with Bristol City stagnating over the last 20 years.

Edited October 11, 2023 by fisherrich

[ashton_fan]

2 hours ago, lenred said:

Me too. Especially when I’d get a lot of it back as well when I came to sell.
 

This fallacy that SL is doing all of this out of the goodness of his heart is just that - a fallacy.   We’ve known that he isn’t ever since his ‘my club’ rant during LJs rein. Probably knew it before but that confirmed it for many.  

The infrastructure is better but that’s it.  And even that - as great as it is - is not that incredible for this level as we’re continually told - it’s very decent for the Championship and would just about stand up in the Prem.  But it’s not anywhere near groundbreaking  
 

We’re in the same league as before he took over and haven’t been anywhere near his continually stated aim of becoming an established Premier club.
 

His rein has been one of treading water when it could’ve been so so much more had he made smarter decisions. I’d imagine he’s finally realised that and now wants to cut ties when he gets what he wants out of us financially.  If figures are correct though it could be a long wait! 

We were stuck in League One when he took over, now an established Championship team, he wants to sell the club due to his age, he needs to ensure he can hand over to a new owner in an organised way as he can't go on forever!

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, fisherrich said:

The chickens have come home to roost with Lansdown. Most on here see through Lansdown nowadays.

He will recoup most of what he has invested financially in the Bristol Sport business when he sells up. I for one want to see a new owner, but more importantly someone who actually takes an interest in the progress of the football club by connecting with the fans. Bristol is crying out for a decent football team, rather than tinpot backwater football.
Fed up with Bristol City stagnating over the last 20 years.

Dunno about 20 years of stagnation and the Championship is quite a decent League and we are effectively a division higher in real terms than 20 years ago but he made a major strategic blunder to reinvest to little so far is the Scott proceeds and it's massively unfair on NP too- needs a 2-3 year deal and some decent backing for sure.

Finally we have hit upon a manager who can push us further on and he's working with a hand tied behind his back. GJ and Cotts also had elements of what we needed but NP is the best.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[REDOXO]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Not just this thread but plenty of others implying / giving a general sentiment that we are not allowed to criticise.

Here’s a couple (not aimed at the two posters), just examples, and of course they are entitled to express their view too.

 

 

Dave free speech mate you can say what you want. So can they. It’s a forum
 

Take from it what you will, however right now there is swath of, in some cases, nasty criticism of the Lansdown family and you point to/quote @BigTone and then have the nerve to say it’s not aimed at him! 

I would suggest that it’s you that is making a big deal of people not going along with your narrative and trying to silence others!
 

 

 

[reddoc]

12 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Dave free speech mate you can say what you want. So can they. It’s a forum
 

Take from it what you will, however right now there is swath of, in some cases, nasty criticism of the Lansdown family and you point to/quote @BigTone and then have the nerve to say it’s not aimed at him! 

I would suggest that it’s you that is making a big deal of people not going along with your narrative and trying to silence others!
 

 

 

Probably wouldn't use Mr Cornershop to emphasise your point. Does have a habit of repeating that same old mantra on here. 

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Dave free speech mate you can say what you want. So can they. It’s a forum
 

Take from it what you will, however right now there is swath of, in some cases, nasty criticism of the Lansdown family and you point to/quote @BigTone and then have the nerve to say it’s not aimed at him! 

I would suggest that it’s you that is making a big deal of people not going along with your narrative and trying to silence others!
 

 

 

That’s some narrative twisting!

Good evening to you.

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, reddoc said:

Probably wouldn't use Mr Cornershop to emphasise your point. Does have a habit of repeating that same old mantra on here. 

Does he. Good to know. 
 

The point is everyone who comes here has the right to say what they want. No one has the ability to silence anyone. The idea that one can silence another on that basis is nuts.
 

However what does happen is a narrative takes hold and people do not post because they can not be arsed to  take the slagging they get. Which it appears to me to be an issue with threads about the Lansdowns just not the way David argues that it is 
 

 

[reddoc]

5 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Does he. Good to know. 
 

The point is everyone who comes here has the right to say what they want. No one has the ability to silence anyone. The idea that one can silence another on that basis is nuts.
 

However what does happen is a narrative takes hold and people do not post because they can not be arsed to  take the slagging they get. Which it appears to me to be an issue with threads about the Lansdowns just not the way David argues that it is 
 

 

The points valid. I was banging on about Lansdown 10+ years ago, more related to incompetence rather than the finances, which I'm not qualified to do. Happy to watch this one.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I should add, I mentioned comparative takeovers. Reading in theory could be sold for £50m so maybe upward revision again but the prospective buyer is William Storey who has a rather sketchy track record and has expressed interest in Coventry and Sunderland but not followed through ...

Edited October 11, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[PHILINFRANCE]

8 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Mciines wasn’t ok , his team & ashton got us relegated. O’driscoll continuously gets slagged off but he had to do what Pearson initially came in to do . Get rid of the dead work & start the rebuild . We had a massively lop sided & overpaid squad . He brought jet in plus flint, fielding & Marlon I think . Cotterill gave us our best season since the 50’s so he deserves more than “decent” . No credit to Lansdown for him though as it was Kieth Dawes appointment .  

Hmm.

Steve Cotterill certainly gave us a wonderful (promotion) season, but I’m not sure it was the best since the 1950s.

Alan Dicks gave us a pretty good season in 1975/76, and a few years after.

[PHILINFRANCE]

6 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Hmm. SOD didn't seem very interested in keeping us in the Championship - it might have been too late, but I thought we went down with a whimper.

Did he have much to do with recruitment? I thought he said we spent a ludicrous amount on Flint, and that he wouldn't have bothered (at the price).

As I recall, S O’D suggested that Flint was very expensive and that he would not have paid that much.

To put his comments in to perspective, however, I am pretty sure he was suggesting that he would not have spent so much of his (limited) budget on a single player, and a defender at that.

I daresay that anybody who watched one of Flint’s early games - away to Port Vale, I think - would have agreed with S O’D.

[steviestevieneville]

17 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Hmm.

Steve Cotterill certainly gave us a wonderful (promotion) season, but I’m not sure it was the best since the 1950s.

Alan Dicks gave us a pretty good season in 1975/76, and a few years after.

He won a league title . Our first since the 50’s . That’s why I compared it . 

[SecretSam]

17 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Hmm. SOD didn't seem very interested in keeping us in the Championship - it might have been too late, but I thought we went down with a whimper.

Did he have much to do with recruitment? I thought he said we spent a ludicrous amount on Flint, and that he wouldn't have bothered (at the price).

I thought we picked up Flint for under a million, and Pack was even less. I'm pretty sure he helped identify them as targets. He was also instrumental in JET signing.

[SecretSam]

16 hours ago, fisherrich said:

The chickens have come home to roost with Lansdown. Most on here see through Lansdown nowadays.

He will recoup most of what he has invested financially in the Bristol Sport business when he sells up. I for one want to see a new owner, but more importantly someone who actually takes an interest in the progress of the football club by connecting with the fans. Bristol is crying out for a decent football team, rather than tinpot backwater football.
Fed up with Bristol City stagnating over the last 20 years.

I think that's being naïve about our historical performance. Look back down the years and we've spent a tiny amount of time in the top tier. Like it or not, the Championship/L1 level is where we've historically played most of our football. 

And I'd suggest that "tinpot" is dismissive of the Championship, one of the most competitive leagues in European football and playing at a level equivalent to most top tiers (excluding the obvious big few). No shame in being an established team at this level.

[Rob k]

29 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I thought we picked up Flint for under a million, and Pack was even less. I'm pretty sure he helped identify them as targets. He was also instrumental in JET signing.

300k for Flint so say 

[Abraham Romanovich]

45 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I think that's being naïve about our historical performance. Look back down the years and we've spent a tiny amount of time in the top tier. Like it or not, the Championship/L1 level is where we've historically played most of our football. 

And I'd suggest that "tinpot" is dismissive of the Championship, one of the most competitive leagues in European football and playing at a level equivalent to most top tiers (excluding the obvious big few). No shame in being an established team at this level.

Agree completely, not long ago Tranmere Rovers away or Leyton Orient at home  were approached with trepidation, being at Swindon when we were bottom of league1.

We now have a state of the art training complex ,together with a multi purpose stadium. and an established place in the championship.

We all want on field success but it is important to get the building blocks in place as well to sustain long term viability (Wigan / Portsmouth failed ).

I have know idea how people can say we are stagnating ,underachiever's probably but stagnating never.

You only have to look across the river to see a club desperately treading water.

[maxjak]

On 10/10/2023 at 12:14, Clutton Caveman said:

I really am at a loss regarding the criticism of SL. He has poured lots of his own money into the club writing off huge sums. We are still not profitable and so each year he has to write a cheque. Who of us if we won the Euro millions would take on a club where after 5 years we would be broke. Clearly people of this wealth become involved in sport as a hobby. A very expensive one at that. It seems he has played enough with the toy and wants to sell it, quite understandably but is not pitching it to every low life in a baseball cap. Clearly we are now more saleable than we were under Ashton and LJ. And hopefully we will reduce our losses to the point where a good buyer can be found.

I ask 2 questions. What other owner since Harry Dolman has done a better job?

Given a lottery win of £150 million would you plough this into BCFC?

150M Is around 15% of his wealth?  I might consider putting 15% of my savings into a project, if I was having fun?  PS. And Pray tell? Who are these low life's in baseball caps you are demeaning from your soapbox?

[BigTone]

16 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Dave free speech mate you can say what you want. So can they. It’s a forum
 

Take from it what you will, however right now there is swath of, in some cases, nasty criticism of the Lansdown family and you point to/quote @BigTone and then have the nerve to say it’s not aimed at him! 

I would suggest that it’s you that is making a big deal of people not going along with your narrative and trying to silence others!
 

 

 

I think my post is quite the opposite of criticism of SL.

[Sleepy1968]

2 hours ago, SecretSam said:

I thought we picked up Flint for under a million, and Pack was even less. I'm pretty sure he helped identify them as targets. He was also instrumental in JET signing.

He might have identified Flint, but he wasn't impressed by how much we paid for him.

Wasn't  Pack OOC somewhere? I am thinking Cheltenham? And ended up training at Portsmouth?

Both were great signings BTW.

Sure you're right about JET - was SOD at Donny when JET was on loan there?

Edited October 12, 2023 by Sleepy1968

[fisherrich]

2 hours ago, SecretSam said:

I think that's being naïve about our historical performance. Look back down the years and we've spent a tiny amount of time in the top tier. Like it or not, the Championship/L1 level is where we've historically played most of our football. 

And I'd suggest that "tinpot" is dismissive of the Championship, one of the most competitive leagues in European football and playing at a level equivalent to most top tiers (excluding the obvious big few). No shame in being an established team at this level.

You are welcome to your opinion, but as someone who travels the UK nationally (football is always discussed), Bristol City is seen as a tinpot Championship club - FACT. Locals in Bristol won't see it that way, but nationally that is a fact unfortunately. The "top tier" was back in the 1970s. A very long time ago. Just think it is time for a new owner to take the club forward. Some of the AS money should have been invested by NP in strengthening the squad recently. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by fisherrich

[BigTone]

41 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

He might have identified Flint, but he wasn't impressed by how much we paid for him.

Wasn't  Pack OOC somewhere? I am thinking Cheltenham? And ended up training at Portsmouth?

Both were great signings BTW.

Sure you're right about JET - was SOD at Donny when JET was on loan there?

Yes, it was Cheltenham

[cidered abroad]

42 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

You are welcome to your opinion, but as someone who travels the UK nationally (football is always discussed), Bristol City is seen as a tinpot Championship club - FACT. Locals in Bristol won't see it that way, but nationally that is a fact unfortunately. The "top tier" was back in the 1970s. A very long time ago. Just think it is time for a new owner to take the club forward. Some of the AS money should have been invested by NP in strengthening the squad recently. 

When I was travelling the country in my work, when football became the days topic, most people I dealt with asked if I supported Bristol Rovers!

That's how much we are thought of.

Edited October 12, 2023 by cidered abroad

[Bazooka Joe]

7 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

When I was travelling the country in my work, when football became the days topic, most people I dealt with asked if I supported Bristol Rovers!

That's how much we are thought of.

Why would anyone ask you that if they could clearly see you weren't cross-eyed with rotten teeth, a snotty nose, and, furthermore, didn't have six fingers on each hand?

[Kid in the Riot]

On 10/10/2023 at 20:04, ExiledAjax said:

If he's asking for north of £140m then that is surely for more than just BCFC + Ashton Gate?

There's no way a mid-table Championship club, even with a decent stadium in a decent city, is worth more than £140m. That's just not a market valuation reflective of the club in its current state. No way.

Even if you threw in both training facilities, the sporting quarter, and Longmoor I'm still struggling to get anything close to £140m. 

Something closer to £100m, maybe. And the vast majority of that would just be the value of the (potential) assets.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Kid in the Riot

[fisherrich]

6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Even if you threw in both training facilities, the sporting quarter, and Longmoor I'm still struggling to get anything close to £140m. 

Something closer to £100m, maybe. And the vast majority of that would just be the value of the (potential) assets.

If true “Glazer Greed” all over again. Not good for Bristol City FC.

[SecretSam]

1 hour ago, fisherrich said:

You are welcome to your opinion 

Errrr...it's facts, actually

[ExiledAjax]

27 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Even if you threw in both training facilities, the sporting quarter, and Longmoor I'm still struggling to get anything close to £140m. 

Something closer to £100m, maybe. And the vast majority of that would just be the value of the (potential) assets.

Agree. But the value is always potential. I was at a sports law conference the other day and the potential of women's football teams/clubs is a really hot ticket right now. Investors are looking at buying women's teams for less than £5m (probably still overpaying in reality) in the hope that in 4 or 5 years they'll have an asset worth 7 or maybe even 10 times that as a minimum. Is Steve arguing that regarding our women's team? They're top flight after all (for the moment).

I present this simply as an indicator of how growth potential is being seen right now in the market.

18 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

If true “Glazer Greed” all over again. Not good for Bristol City FC.

Whilst greed is a possibility, that's not the conclusion I come to. The conclusion I come to is that he is looking to sell the whole thing. Bristol City, Bristol Bears, Bristol Sport, Bristol Flyers and all related real estate (including the unbuilt Sporting Quarter), intellectual property and other assets.

I think that is the only way you can reasonably get to that sort of figure. Personally I reckon a sale of BCFC Holdings Ltd, encompassing the football club (mens and womens teams), Ashton Gate and Failand would land at something like £70m, maybe a bit more on a good day.

That means that the sale is far, far more complicated than one that just saw BCFC Ltd and AG sold. The due diligence required is much greater, as a buyer you need to look at EFL, FA, Rugby, and Basketball ownership rules and other regulations. I suspect you'd be looking at £500k or more in legal and other professional fees compared to maybe half that for just the Football Club plus stadium.

I always hoped that one reason he'd kept the club and stadium separate under BCFC Holdings was so that when he came to sell it would be simple and he'd be able to do it relatively easily. 

But that asking price indicates to me - and I may well be totally wrong as I am just guessing and all these assumptions could be way off - that it's more complex than that.

Edited October 12, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[chinapig]

12 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

If true “Glazer Greed” all over again. Not good for Bristol City FC.

I have legitimate criticisms of Steve but he is in no way like the Glazers. Their purchase was a leveraged buyout that loaded Man Utd with debt since when they have been taking money out of the club.

Steve on the other hand has invested his own money and hasn't taken anything out for himself.

[Mr Popodopolous]

21 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

If true “Glazer Greed” all over again. Not good for Bristol City FC.

I'm not sure it is "Glazer greed" as such, not like Lansdown has taken dividends out of us- and if £140m while clearly unrealistic, it's probably less than he has put in over the years still. He won't find any takers at that price however, not while we are a solid but unspectacular Championship club. Not a hope.

Chinapig beat me to it, anyway the Glazers only put in some of their cash to purchase Man United, leveraged debt against their own revenue etc.

About £800m purchase price, not sure how much was their own money, the club paid a fair chunk of the interest on said debt, the debt itself and such.

Asking price for them was mooted as £6bn and even as high as £10bn!! The multiple of cost to profit is huge in this instance. Unsure of the ratio of their own cash to leverage back in 2005.