Lansdown

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

When I was travelling the country in my work, when football became the days topic, most people I dealt with asked if I supported Bristol Rovers!

That's how much we are thought of.

Perhaps it was more a reflection of how they saw you! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[grifty]

The way I see it is that no-one would be against a new owner coming in, righting the wrongs and financing the club to promotion and then stabilisation in the top division.

How many clubs has that happened to?

Brighton, Brentford, Fulham, Bournemouth, Burnley and the Championship Watford, Stoke and Swansea?

Then there are the clubs who have had an owner come in, risk it all for that promotion, short success and then leave - Cardiff, Birmingham, Portsmouth, Bolton, Derby, Leeds a while ago, Charlton, Reading, Wigan.

Roughly 50/50 success rate from those selected. Now as long time Bristol City fans, which type of owner are we more likely to get? 

[Swede]

to counteract this, in work whenever I need help & I tell someone I'm in the "bristol rovers" they know EXACTLY what I mean

[REDOXO]

2 hours ago, BigTone said:

I think my post is quite the opposite of criticism of SL.

Exactly.
 

 

[Clutton Caveman]

3 hours ago, maxjak said:

150M Is around 15% of his wealth?  I might consider putting 15% of my savings into a project, if I was having fun?  PS. And Pray tell? Who are these low life's in baseball caps you are demeaning from your soapbox?

From my soapbox, I refer to the new owners of Everton. 

[phantom]

4 hours ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

We now have a state of the art training complex ,together with a multi purpose stadium. and an established place in the championship.

We all want on field success but it is important to get the building blocks in place as well to sustain long term viability (Wigan / Portsmouth failed ).

I have know idea how people can say we are stagnating ,underachiever's probably but stagnating never.

You only have to look across the river to see a club desperately treading water.

But you say it like we are the only side that has those facilities, there are many sides with new grounds or even updated grounds, one MASSIVE mistake is that the stadium was built too small, hence it has nowhere to develop now

But what good is having a Porche is you have a tractor engine driving it?

You mention stagnating, but for every opponent that has gone backwards there is another that has passed us, if you consider the amount of money pissed up the wall recently (approx £50m on the LJ vanity project) as achieving anything we have problems

As for comparing us against Rovers, they were never on a par with us to be compared with

2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Even if you threw in both training facilities, the sporting quarter, and Longmoor I'm still struggling to get anything close to £140m. 

Something closer to £100m, maybe. And the vast majority of that would just be the value of the (potential) assets.

You have hit the nail on the head why there are problems in getting a sale

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Agree. But the value is always potential. I was at a sports law conference the other day and the potential of women's football teams/clubs is a really hot ticket right now. Investors are looking at buying women's teams for less than £5m (probably still overpaying in reality) in the hope that in 4 or 5 years they'll have an asset worth 7 or maybe even 10 times that as a minimum. Is Steve arguing that regarding our women's team? They're top flight after all (for the moment).

I present this simply as an indicator of how growth potential is being seen right now in the market.

Whilst greed is a possibility, that's not the conclusion I come to. The conclusion I come to is that he is looking to sell the whole thing. Bristol City, Bristol Bears, Bristol Sport, Bristol Flyers and all related real estate (including the unbuilt Sporting Quarter), intellectual property and other assets.

I think that is the only way you can reasonably get to that sort of figure. Personally I reckon a sale of BCFC Holdings Ltd, encompassing the football club (mens and womens teams), Ashton Gate and Failand would land at something like £70m, maybe a bit more on a good day.

That means that the sale is far, far more complicated than one that just saw BCFC Ltd and AG sold. The due diligence required is much greater, as a buyer you need to look at EFL, FA, Rugby, and Basketball ownership rules and other regulations. I suspect you'd be looking at £500k or more in legal and other professional fees compared to maybe half that for just the Football Club plus stadium.

I always hoped that one reason he'd kept the club and stadium separate under BCFC Holdings was so that when he came to sell it would be simple and he'd be able to do it relatively easily. 

But that asking price indicates to me - and I may well be totally wrong as I am just guessing and all these assumptions could be way off - that it's more complex than that.

Perhaps you could get to around £140m with Longmoor and the sporting quarter then? Longmoor is 500 homes, I mean that land could be worth £30-£40m in a decent financial climate (which we are currently not really in from a housebuilding perspective). 

Thinking about it, because both permissions are linked, any buyer would really need to take on both projects, or none at all. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Kid in the Riot

[BS3City]

1 hour ago, Swede said:

to counteract this, in work whenever I need help & I tell someone I'm in the "bristol rovers" they know EXACTLY what I mean

In a similar way we had a woman from head office at our workplace recently to do some training - she had the most ill fitting bra you could ever wish to see!

She's commonly now known as "Bristol Rovers" due to the absolutely abysmal support...

[BigTone]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

Exactly.
 

 

Thanks Dad

[lenred]

1 hour ago, grifty said:

 

 

Then there are the clubs who have had an owner come in, risk it all for that promotion, short success and then leave - Cardiff, Birmingham, Portsmouth, Bolton, Derby, Leeds a while ago, Charlton, Reading, Wigan.

 

 

These kind of posts always make me laugh (no offence)

Cardiff - Prem League, League cup finalists, FA Cup finalists   

Brum - Prem, League cup winners

Portsmouth -  FA Cup winners, European football against the likes of AC Milan etc. Premier league football.  

Leeds - top level Prem team, Champions League semi finalists. Now a yo yo prem team.   

Wigan - FA Cup winners, FA Cup semi finalists, European football, Prem regulars.  

Charlton and Reading - Prem football. 
 

Give me any of their histories over the last 20 or so years compared to the stagnant Championship / League 1 gruel we’ve been served up over the same period.   Think of the amazing days and nights these clubs supporters have had.   Incomparable to what we’ve had under SL.   

[REDOXO]

28 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Thanks Dad

You’re welcome Anthony. Now eat your vegetables!

[Sleepy1968]

3 hours ago, chinapig said:

I have legitimate criticisms of Steve but he is in no way like the Glazers. Their purchase was a leveraged buyout that loaded Man Utd with debt since when they have been taking money out of the club.

Per Keiran Maguire, they organised Man Utd in such a way, that they can draw a dividend from a profit making Co, whilst the overall group have always been loss making.

[BigTone]

3 hours ago, downendcity said:

Perhaps it was more a reflection of how they saw you! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The six finger gloves were a giveaway

[BigTone]

44 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

You’re welcome Anthony. Now eat your vegetables!

Sprouts tonight Dad so will be blustery later on.

[Sir Geoff]

2 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

From my soapbox, I refer to the new owners of Everton. 

Is that the same lowlifes in baseball caps that SL spoke to with a view to selling to them ?

[Lanterne Rouge]

4 hours ago, downendcity said:

Perhaps it was more a reflection of how they saw you! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps his job was travelling the country erecting marquees for events. Easy mistake to make if so.

[pongo88]

On 11/10/2023 at 11:41, phantom said:

Correct

I am led to believe that this is part of a stumbling block, the size of the ground and the lack of opportunity to expand it

The size of the ground and lack of opportunity to expand is often quoted but is it really a problem? There are quite a few Premier League teams and Championship teams, with recent Premier League experience, that have grounds similar in size to Ashton Gate or smaller - eg

Palace - 27k: Brentford 17k: Burnley 22k: Bournemouth 11k: Luton 10k: Norwich 27k: WBA 27k: Watford 22k: QPR 18k: Swansea 21k

As for expansion it is technically possible, though difficult - ie expand the Atyeo end. The difficulty is, of course, buying the houses though would it be worth it?  SL once said he considered this, during the planning stage of the redevelopment, which would have increased capacity to 35k. He said he thought it wasn’t worth it as there would only be a sell-out against the big teams and the real money comes from TV in the Premier League. Whether he was right or wrong is a matter of opinion.

Obviously Ashton Vale would be a better selling feature but you can sell anything if the price is right. The fact that SL has been trying to find a buyer for some time, without success, indicates that his valuation (£140k?) is adrift from reality 

 

[Hxj]

49 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

The fact that SL has been trying to find a buyer for some time, without success, indicates that his valuation (£140k?) is adrift from reality

Or alternatively personally I'm happy to sell my house to anyone for £5 million, if I don't sell it fine because I like living there, but if you want to buy you have to pay top price plus an awful lot extra.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Hxj

[Hxj]

9 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Something closer to £100m, maybe.

Is that effectively £30m million once the loan is repaid then?

[Clutton Caveman]

14 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Perhaps his job was travelling the country erecting marquees for events. Easy mistake to make if so.

So 777 are now pillars of society?

[CodeRed]

12 hours ago, pongo88 said:

The size of the ground and lack of opportunity to expand is often quoted but is it really a problem? There are quite a few Premier League teams and Championship teams, with recent Premier League experience, that have grounds similar in size to Ashton Gate or smaller - eg

Palace - 27k: Brentford 17k: Burnley 22k: Bournemouth 11k: Luton 10k: Norwich 27k: WBA 27k: Watford 22k: QPR 18k: Swansea 21k

As for expansion it is technically possible, though difficult - ie expand the Atyeo end. The difficulty is, of course, buying the houses though would it be worth it?  SL once said he considered this, during the planning stage of the redevelopment, which would have increased capacity to 35k. He said he thought it wasn’t worth it as there would only be a sell-out against the big teams and the real money comes from TV in the Premier League. Whether he was right or wrong is a matter of opinion.

Obviously Ashton Vale would be a better selling feature but you can sell anything if the price is right. The fact that SL has been trying to find a buyer for some time, without success, indicates that his valuation (£140k?) is adrift from reality 

 

Certainly it's possible to sustain PL football with our current capacity, as you say the TV money is massive, but if someone aspires to take the club to an elite level they would be likely be looking for a club with a catchment and potential to compete at the top of the PL, Europe,etc. That's why clubs with decent capacity grounds decided to build even bigger stadiums- Spurs, Arsenal, Everton, and why WH and Man City moved, Newcastle are planning to extend their stadium again, Wolves are planning to extend again and clubs like Chelsea are considered to be at a disadvantage with their 40k capacity compared to their rivals.

SL does need to be realistic with his asking price, as the club does have its limitations with the stadium which has realistically been developed as far as it can be.

[BS30 City]

17 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Certainly it's possible to sustain PL football with our current capacity, as you say the TV money is massive, but if someone aspires to take the club to an elite level they would be likely be looking for a club with a catchment and potential to compete at the top of the PL, Europe,etc. That's why clubs with decent capacity grounds decided to build even bigger stadiums- Spurs, Arsenal, Everton, and why WH and Man City moved, Newcastle are planning to extend their stadium again, Wolves are planning to extend again and clubs like Chelsea are considered to be at a disadvantage with their 40k capacity compared to their rivals.

SL does need to be realistic with his asking price, as the club does have its limitations with the stadium which has realistically been developed as far as it can be.

What about a new double tier dolman mirroring the lansdown ?! will the block of flats behind last forever?! All around the country similar are being demolished. I have always wanted to know if there is a lifespan for these blocks! Anyone know?! 

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 hour ago, BS30 City said:

What about a new double tier dolman mirroring the lansdown ?! will the block of flats behind last forever?! All around the country similar are being demolished. I have always wanted to know if there is a lifespan for these blocks! Anyone know?! 

Judging by the amount BCC have spent on them over the last few years I would guess they have addressed the issues that similar PCC blocks have and extended their life considerably.

[phantom]

14 hours ago, pongo88 said:

The size of the ground and lack of opportunity to expand is often quoted but is it really a problem? There are quite a few Premier League teams and Championship teams, with recent Premier League experience, that have grounds similar in size to Ashton Gate or smaller - eg

Palace - 27k: Brentford 17k: Burnley 22k: Bournemouth 11k: Luton 10k: Norwich 27k: WBA 27k: Watford 22k: QPR 18k: Swansea 21k

Yes it is. especially to investors, as we don't stand out as anything special and there are other teams that are much more appealing financially

There is a pattern with all those sides you have mentioned though, bottom end yo yoing teams

Anyone taking over will need a bigger attraction - otherwise why not just invest in a lower league side with the space and invest the same amounts

2 hours ago, CodeRed said:

SL does need to be realistic with his asking price, as the club does have its limitations with the stadium which has realistically been developed as far as it can be.

This is the massive sticking point, that it is being sold as all or nothing

Additionally the many sub companies has made it nigh on impossible just to solely own the football club without many unnecessary obstacles now being in place

1 hour ago, BS30 City said:

What about a new double tier dolman mirroring the lansdown ?! will the block of flats behind last forever?! All around the country similar are being demolished. I have always wanted to know if there is a lifespan for these blocks! Anyone know?! 

I wouldn't imagine so, otherwise there would be tower blocks being demolished all over the place

Sadly not the space to build

[pongo88]

13 hours ago, Hxj said:

Or alternatively personally I'm happy to sell my house to anyone for £5 million, if I don't sell it fine because I like living there, but if you want to buy you have to pay top price plus an awful lot extra.

The difference between you and Steve Lansdown, apart from the odd billion or two, is staying in your house won’t cost you anything apart from paying the butler, maid, gardener,  chauffeur etc. With SL retaining ownership of City / Bristol sport means he has an annual expenditure of tens of millions of pounds. Admittedly this is loose change for him but as he’s from a financial background he might be fed up with spending money on something he’s not really interested in. 

[pongo88]

7 minutes ago, phantom said:

 

There is a pattern with all those sides you have mentioned though, bottom end yo yoing teams

 

City being  a yo yo team between the Championship and the Premier League would be absolutely fantastic compared to the last 50 years. In reality it’s the best City could hope for in the foreseeable future. Look at Burnley, for example. New American owners, investment in players, good manager but after walking away with the Championship last season they are now in the relegation zone. Some teams who are promoted to the Premier League survive but most come back down in a short time 

[fisherrich]

13 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

The difference between you and Steve Lansdown, apart from the odd billion or two, is staying in your house won’t cost you anything apart from paying the butler, maid, gardener,  chauffeur etc. With SL retaining ownership of City / Bristol sport means he has an annual expenditure of tens of millions of pounds. Admittedly this is loose change for him but as he’s from a financial background he might be fed up with spending money on something he’s not really interested in. 

It certainly feels like he is “uninterested” in terms of the football. We can only hope he sells up soon, but finding a buyer to meet his asking price/Ts & Cs, might take a long while. Could be a long, drawn out affair.

[phantom]

1 hour ago, fisherrich said:

It certainly feels like he is “uninterested” in terms of the football. We can only hope he sells up soon, but finding a buyer to meet his asking price/Ts & Cs, might take a long while. Could be a long, drawn out affair.

IMO the bigger problem is that the intention was to hand the legacy on to Jon to take forward

He seems to be very distant from the club and can only assume he doesn't have the interest to take on the reigns

[CodeRed]

39 minutes ago, phantom said:

IMO the bigger problem is that the intention was to hand the legacy on to Jon to take forward

He seems to be very distant from the club and can only assume he doesn't have the interest to take on the reigns

Or the leadership skills to put it bluntly. I'm sure he's a decent chap but I'd be worried if he did take it on.

 

[CodeRed]

1 hour ago, pongo88 said:

City being  a yo yo team between the Championship and the Premier League would be absolutely fantastic compared to the last 50 years. In reality it’s the best City could hope for in the foreseeable future. Look at Burnley, for example. New American owners, investment in players, good manager but after walking away with the Championship last season they are now in the relegation zone. Some teams who are promoted to the Premier League survive but most come back down in a short time 

Yes we all agree being a yo-yo club is better than where we are and will generate big money, but the conversation is about how much SL wants for the club...not what is fans would be happy with.......no one is paying north of £100 Million for a club to yo-yo between the Championship and the PL. At that price they want the potential to be a top 6 PL club (with investment) and compete in Europe and the stadium limits that ambition. Like people are saying SL needs to divide his interests up and his price down.