Fans forum 27th November - Hen and Chicken

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

It seems the fans not happy with recent events prefer to vent their spline and whip up anti Lansdown hysteria from behind a keyboard, rather than making the effort to go, but then moan afterwards the questions were not the ones they would have asked. Tickets were freely available and whilst I accept not everyone can make it or things crop up, none of the more outspoken with the most posts recently seem to have been in attendance.

So after not bothering, instead prefer to attack and belittle the fans who did bother to attend and label them as sycophants or as others have called them Bristol Sport employees, BS bots, coach 1, happy clappers and a whole range of other insults and claim they are not representative of the fan base, as the views expressed last night do not match the mouthy few who dominate the post count on this forum. Perhaps its this forum that is not representative, whilst it may have 20k members, not that many regularly post and people I ask if they come on here, say can't be bothered as its so negative.

 

The tickets went really quickly. Much more so than last year.

I certainly don't think there is or was any conspiracy or they were Bristol Sport bots etc but a fair few of the questions seemed quite tame, weren't very probing. Felt a bit of a wasted opportunity in some respects.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[sh1t_ref_again]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

The tickets went really quickly. Much more so than last year.

I certainly don't think there is or was any conspiracy or they were Bristol Sport bots etc but the questions seemed quite tame, weren't very probing. Felt a bit of a wasted opportunity in some respects.

Don't disagree about the question and yes it was a bit tame, but feel some are OTT with criticism of the people that went and questions asked, did not see many posts from the same people before bemoaning they could not get tickets

[B-Rizzle]

Regarding the poor comms over the last few years and a far from successful fans forum, how has Dave Barton avoided criticism?

I hate to go in on personal criticism of employees but everyone else has had their fair share of finger pointing at sone point.

DB’s role is literallly Head of Communications, no? It’s his job to advise the club on how it represents itself, communicates and interacts with fans. How has he not intervened sooner? He MUST scan this forum fairly regularly and would have known for a very long time about the key themes being discussed within the fan base.

[Tim Monaghan]

24 minutes ago, B-Rizzle said:

Regarding the poor comms over the last few years and a far from successful fans forum, how has Dave Barton avoided criticism?

I hate to go in on personal criticism of employees but everyone else has had their fair share of finger pointing at sone point.

DB’s role is literallly Head of Communications, no? It’s his job to advise the club on how it represents itself, communicates and interacts with fans. How has he not intervened sooner? He MUST scan this forum fairly regularly and would have known for a very long time about the key themes being discussed within the fan base.

To be fair, you can’t blame the club for the fans forum. That was purely down to our own fans. It was pretty embarrassing from us! 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Ghost Rider

[bcfc01]

17 minutes ago, B-Rizzle said:

Regarding the poor comms over the last few years and a far from successful fans forum, how has Dave Barton avoided criticism?

I hate to go in on personal criticism of employees but everyone else has had their fair share of finger pointing at sone point.

DB’s role is literallly Head of Communications, no? It’s his job to advise the club on how it represents itself, communicates and interacts with fans. How has he not intervened sooner? He MUST scan this forum fairly regularly and would have known for a very long time about the key themes being discussed within the fan base on this forum but maybe not in the wider support base.

[Bristol Rob]

1 hour ago, B-Rizzle said:

Regarding the poor comms over the last few years and a far from successful fans forum, how has Dave Barton avoided criticism?

I hate to go in on personal criticism of employees but everyone else has had their fair share of finger pointing at sone point.

DB’s role is literallly Head of Communications, no? It’s his job to advise the club on how it represents itself, communicates and interacts with fans. How has he not intervened sooner? He MUST scan this forum fairly regularly and would have known for a very long time about the key themes being discussed within the fan base.

Had work not have got in the way, that was going to be my question.

"Bristol City have a head of communication, and Bristol Sport have a director of Communication, can you tell me what their last individual communications they published were?'

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

2 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

 

So after not bothering, instead prefer to attack and belittle the fans who did bother to attend and label them as sycophants or as others have called them Bristol Sport employees, BS bots, coach 1, happy clappers and a whole range of other insults and claim they are not representative of the fan base, as the views expressed last night do not match the mouthy few who dominate the post count on this forum. Perhaps its this forum that is not representative, whilst it may have 20k members, not that many regularly post and people I ask if they come on here, say can't be bothered as its so negative.

 

OTIB is entirely representative of OTIB. I think you may have the number of otib members wrong at 20,000 I think it's much less. And let's face it- unless they are  an otib supporter then they could be a gas head, visiting rival, voyeur, spy or troll etc. There are no barriers to entry.

Outrageous indignation on here is invariably not replicated in the wider ST fan base as calls for protests usually prove.

On a match day there maybe circa 300-400 people on this site which given the amount of ST holders and BCFC members ( which is c.20,000) is pretty tiny and not entirely representative.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Don't disagree about the question and yes it was a bit tame, but feel some are OTT with criticism of the people that went and questions asked, did not see many posts from the same people before bemoaning they could not get tickets

No need for me to moan about not getting a ticket because I had tickets mate, but as you said, life got in the way!

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Have to disagree with a lot of this Mr P.

Atyeo split... Well, we don't sell out at the moment, so that would just see further dilution of people who like to sit or stand by people who might sing. (What happened to the Dolman A Block experiment?)

For some, there seems to be an expectation that their way of supporting a football club is the 'only way' and the popularity of S82 is reflective of that. If S82 was what I believe those behind it initially tried to create, the stadium would be rocking for 90 minutes.

As it is, with people turning up late, leaving 10 minutes before half time to get a pint there are far more quiet moments than they want to admit.

If there was to be expansion of safe standing, I would expect the club to consider the lower Dolman, it would be popular with the rugby supporters and would ensure that sound was directed at the pitch. 

Folk need to remember Aston Gate isn't a football stadium, it's a sports stadium these days.

Fair points Rob, I'll try and address a few.

Dolman A Block is a strange one, I'm not sure the club were altogether accommodating, there are still pockets but at the same time the club can't be seen to be encouraging or indulging persistent standing in  an area not designed for it, not allocated especially if it is clear and visible.

The dual impact albeit perhaps it would hit the finances a little of some home and away fans in the Atyeo would be that 'interaction' and perhaps less away fans. Thereby having City fans behind both goals it could help the side.

Some income hit vs a more lively atmosphere maybe.

By no means the only way but I think there could be a better distribution, as I suspect there are more than the 1,200, 1,400 in the corner who would prefer to stand and or sing.

Singing Section can be quite good, perhaps not at all times but it certainly can be quite good. Do feel more central can be the best bet albeit there is no perfect solution.

This is true, numbers pouring out from 40 mins, perhaps 35 mins onwards can put a bit of a dent. Maybe more might stay if in a Safe Standing area but then again it could be an optimism bias of mine.

Lower Dolman seems a good idea. Actually I seem to recall reading on here that when AG was redeveloped and the rugby moved here parts of the Dolman and South Stand were promised Safe Standing or similar.

It is a sports stadium and more besides..but lots of rugby grounds have or had standing terraces too, as a % most actually unless irs changed.

Just think more could be done overall, whether my ideas are the answer who knows but club could do more to encourage it, to make a survey, consultation to find out whether there is interest or otherwise etc.

[Harry]

Hate to say it, but if you want people to stay in their seats until half time, you need to stop serving alcohol in the concourse and not show the game on the tv. 
At 35 minutes in every game, the place empties. By the half time whistle, a 20,000 crowd has become a 12,000 crowd. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Do you mean stop selling alcohol verbatim, or restrict it to pre game and HT?

I do recall as it goes, the Swansea game in 2019. We scored just after HT, mayne the opener? I along with some friends and many more still in the concourse- there was the roar of the crowd when we scored, a pause then a few seconds later the same in the concourse as it appeared on the TV!

[Harry]

20 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Do you mean stop selling alcohol verbatim, or restrict it to pre game and HT?

I do recall as it goes, the Swansea game in 2019. We scored just after HT, mayne the opener? I along with some friends and many more still in the concourse- there was the roar of the crowd when we scored, a pause then a few seconds later the same in the concourse as it appeared on the TV!

Yes. Not sold during the game. The reason 8,000 people leave their seats before half time is so they can go and get a beer or food. 
If people are saying ‘stay in your seats and create a better atmosphere’ then the club shouldn’t sell beer and food during the match and certainly shouldn’t be screening the match in the concourse. 

[ExiledAjax]

17 hours ago, shahanshahan said:

Am glad I got to ask a similar question!

Thank you.

Interesting answers. I think it's clear that as we already know the "official club view" is more towards JL's view that we should not have "regulation for regulation's sake" and that IREF is a necessary, but not desirable, thing. This explains the reticence from the club to be proactive in preparation for IREF.

Also it's interesting that really they like it because they think it will naturally lead to a scrapping of PPs. It might accidentally do that if it is IREF that ends up putting together the new financial deal - but that's not actually IREF's raison d'etre and if Marshall and JL think it is then they need to read the whitepaper again.

The follow up question - if it were allowed - to JL is "Based on what we currently know about IREF's intended licensing plan, do you think that BCFC is ready for regulation in its current state?'

Edited November 29, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[W-S-M Seagull]

17 hours ago, shahanshahan said:

Am glad I got to ask a similar question!

Seemed the perfect opportunity to ask JL about the splat Robin yet no one did. 

[Son of Fred]

On 27/11/2023 at 21:32, W-S-M Seagull said:

It was these sort of questions that were totally pointless. A quick Internet search would have told that person how many we are taking. Just a total waste of time. 

More questions than answers???

I struggle to think why anyone has any interest whatsoever in whatever the Lansdownes have to say..

It's all 'piss & wind.

 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

More questions than answers???

I struggle to think why anyone has any interest whatsoever in whatever the Lansdownes have to say..

It's all 'piss & wind.

 

 

Within 30 seconds I've come up with a number of questions that could and should have been easily asked that are considered important issues. 

1. Why has your dad suddenly decided to stop covering the losses? 

2. What was the thought process behind the splat Robin and will it continue to be used? 

3. Why was no money made available to Pearson in the summer when it was obvious we needed a few more bodies and why is there now suddenly money available? 

4. Do Bristol City benefit financially from concerts etc.

 

[RedM]

14 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

It seems the fans not happy with recent events prefer to vent their spline and whip up anti Lansdown hysteria from behind a keyboard, rather than making the effort to go, but then moan afterwards the questions were not the ones they would have asked. Tickets were freely available and whilst I accept not everyone can make it or things crop up, none of the more outspoken with the most posts recently seem to have been in attendance.

So after not bothering, instead prefer to attack and belittle the fans who did bother to attend and label them as sycophants or as others have called them Bristol Sport employees, BS bots, coach 1, happy clappers and a whole range of other insults and claim they are not representative of the fan base, as the views expressed last night do not match the mouthy few who dominate the post count on this forum. Perhaps its this forum that is not representative, whilst it may have 20k members, not that many regularly post and people I ask if they come on here, say can't be bothered as its so negative.

 

I don't think it helped that the format was slightly different from last year, or I think it was as I didn't catch the first few minutes. This time they went straight into Q&A's whereas from memory didn't Gould, Pearson etc talk a little about what was going on at the club, their roles etc. This I think was very much needed due to recent events but it didn't happen and it was as if people didn't know if they should ask or not.

Last year for example I remember Tinnion saying something like 'if you think the current academy players are good (Scott, Conway and Bell) then just you wait until you see the next crop'. This invited relevant questions etc.

This time it felt a bit all over the place, no structure as such. We had a new manager ready to answer questions yet a chunk of the discussion was about where people could stand and sing! 

[petehinton]

13 minutes ago, RedM said:

I don't think it helped that the format was slightly different from last year, or I think it was as I didn't catch the first few minutes. This time they went straight into Q&A's whereas from memory didn't Gould, Pearson etc talk a little about what was going on at the club, their roles etc. This I think was very much needed due to recent events but it didn't happen and it was as if people didn't know if they should ask or not.

Last year for example I remember Tinnion saying something like 'if you think the current academy players are good (Scott, Conway and Bell) then just you wait until you see the next crop'. This invited relevant questions etc.

This time it felt a bit all over the place, no structure as such. We had a new manager ready to answer questions yet a chunk of the discussion was about where people could stand and sing! 

Exactly how I felt. Was expecting to sit and listen for 15/20 mins, get some titbits that would then drive relevant questions off the back of them. Tinnion, Gould & Nige went into loads of interesting detail off the bat last year. This week was literally Jon saying, thanks for coming, an awkward silence throughout and then thrown straight to the crowd. Checked back from the two streams, and this year was a good half an hour (or a third) shorter than last, which I think sums up how rushed the whole thing felt. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by petehinton

[phantom]

11 minutes ago, RedM said:

I don't think it helped that the format was slightly different from last year, or I think it was as I didn't catch the first few minutes. This time they went straight into Q&A's whereas from memory didn't Gould, Pearson etc talk a little about what was going on at the club, their roles etc. This I think was very much needed due to recent events but it didn't happen and it was as if people didn't know if they should ask or not.

I remember Tinnion saying something like 'if you think the current academy players are good (Scott, Conway and Bell) then just you wait until you see the next crop'. This invited relevant questions etc.

This time it felt a bit all over the place, no structure as such. We had a new manager ready to answer questions yet a chunk of the discussion was about where people could stand and sing! 

There was a very short introduction, but not on the scale you reference above

My personal opinion, it could and maybe should have been done differently, but I am not sure what was spoke before the cameras went live, there certainly were not enough questions in the room anyway, so it meant those being asked were not always in the relevant forum. But, I guess if certain questions are blocked people will not be happy about that?

Again this will annoy many, but I feel that the current group are still finding their feet, they acknowledge previous errors and to be fair they are coming around to ways to improve

I am happy to feedback about the way the night went, but as there were not lots of people jumping at the chance to ask a question, it probably would not have many any difference

Like I said before, and I don't believe this is letting out any big secret, but the wheels are in motion to do any event at an away game in the near future so feedback can be given prior to that event

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Within 30 seconds I've come up with a number of questions that could and should have been easily asked that are considered important issues. 

1. Why has your dad suddenly decided to stop covering the losses? 

2. What was the thought process behind the splat Robin and will it continue to be used? 

3. Why was no money made available to Pearson in the summer when it was obvious we needed a few more bodies and why is there now suddenly money available? 

4. Do Bristol City benefit financially from concerts etc.

 

4. Yes, indirectly - for FFP purposes, because any “profits” from these events are made by AG Ltd who’s accounts we combine with BCFC Ltd in our FFP Submission.

There is of course a point that AG Ltd doesn’t made a profit, but I guess the simple answer is that they would make a bigger loss without the gigs.

Source: a person who knows 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Davefevs

[Nogbad the Bad]

On 20/11/2023 at 10:00, Nogbad the Bad said:

Didn't go to that one, wouldn't want to be in the same room as Pulis.

My point was though to those who thought 200 tickets was insufficient.

In my experience 200 is not only a decent number compared to some Q&A's of the past but anyway it only needs 3 or 4 of those there to ask 'tough' questions - and follow up on the answers if necessary - to make it really interesting.

That doesn't generally happen in my experience, when it comes down to it fans are either a bit intimidated to be in the presence of the club's top brass, or the atmosphere is convivial and most fans are content just to be there and listen without any thought of giving any of the panel a hard time.

This one could be different, I hope so anyway.

Same as usual then, an easy ride for the panel with most fans seemingly just happy to be there, and no tough questions.

Regarding the above pre H&C post, and that it only takes 3 or 4 tough questions to make things really interesting, I note the likes of @GrahamC, @Bristol Rob and @W-S-M Seagull (maybe amongst others from OTIB) obtained tickets but have said they were unfortunately unable to attend on the night.

Who knows, perhaps these 3 were the ones who would have represented the majority on OTIB by asking those tough questions, thus making it a much less comfortable night for the panel and the whole event far more interesting.

It doesn't take much to make a big difference to the whole event, and this trio of absentees may have been very fortunate for JL and BT.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

23 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Same as usual then, an easy ride for the panel with most fans seemingly just happy to be there, and no tough questions.

Regarding the above pre H&C post, and that it only takes 3 or 4 tough questions to make things really interesting, I note the likes of @GrahamC, @Bristol Rob and @W-S-M Seagull (maybe amongst others from OTIB) obtained tickets but have said they were unfortunately unable to attend on the night.

Who knows, perhaps these 3 were the ones who would have represented the majority on OTIB by asking those tough questions, thus making it a much less comfortable night for the panel and the whole event far more interesting.

It doesn't take much to make a big difference to the whole event, and this trio of absentees may have been very fortunate for JL and BT.

 

2022 one was much better than this IMO. Sounds like it perhaps reverted back to type this year?

[RedM]

12 hours ago, Harry said:

Yes. Not sold during the game. The reason 8,000 people leave their seats before half time is so they can go and get a beer or food. 
If people are saying ‘stay in your seats and create a better atmosphere’ then the club shouldn’t sell beer and food during the match and certainly shouldn’t be screening the match in the concourse. 

I understand what you are saying but I think if we didn't start selling alcohol until after the HT whistle is blown people will still leave to get in the queue. Also people will then be delayed getting back to their seats after HT due to the delay.

In short the problem won't be solved, just kicked down the timeline a bit?

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

1. Why has your dad suddenly decided to stop covering the losses? 

3. Why was no money made available to Pearson in the summer when it was obvious we needed a few more bodies and why is there now suddenly money available?

I suspect here is that it is some sort of preparation for a Football Regulator and or mooted new FFP regs.

I reckon our football wages etc are now somewhat aligned to the 70% of turnover level that has been mooted.

Excellent question though, if only someone had asked it.

That could also feed into 3 to an extent albeit the moving of the goalposts if it happens is harder to explain.

[Alessandro]

54 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Same as usual then, an easy ride for the panel with most fans seemingly just happy to be there, and no tough questions.

Regarding the above pre H&C post, and that it only takes 3 or 4 tough questions to make things really interesting, I note the likes of @GrahamC, @Bristol Rob and @W-S-M Seagull (maybe amongst others from OTIB) obtained tickets but have said they were unfortunately unable to attend on the night.

Who knows, perhaps these 3 were the ones who would have represented the majority on OTIB by asking those tough questions, thus making it a much less comfortable night for the panel and the whole event far more interesting.

It doesn't take much to make a big difference to the whole event, and this trio of absentees may have been very fortunate for JL and BT.

 

I hope OTIB will not let this happen again - next time, as a group, the forum will have to be more organised and make sure there are going to be enough of the ‘right’ people there, to ask the ‘right’ questions. 
 

Maybe the club intervened or maybe it was taken for granted by the fans this time that the club would face the right questions but instead we were left with a missed opportunity for some accountability. 
 

As others have said though, if you’re not there, you can’t really complain. 

[Harry]

28 minutes ago, RedM said:

I understand what you are saying but I think if we didn't start selling alcohol until after the HT whistle is blown people will still leave to get in the queue. Also people will then be delayed getting back to their seats after HT due to the delay.

In short the problem won't be solved, just kicked down the timeline a bit?

I’m not suggesting that I actually want it to happen, but the freedom to be able to drink all game and watch it on tv is absolutely detrimental if the club want fans in their seats making noise. 

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

I’m not suggesting that I actually want it to happen, but the freedom to be able to drink all game and watch it on tv is absolutely detrimental if the club want fans in their seats making noise. 

It's not detrimental to the cashflow of the concourse tills though is it...

[Harry]

6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's not detrimental to the cashflow of the concourse tills though is it...

Exactly 

[Nogbad the Bad]

27 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I hope OTIB will not let this happen again - next time, as a group, the forum will have to be more organised and make sure there are going to be enough of the ‘right’ people there, to ask the ‘right’ questions. 
 

Maybe the club intervened or maybe it was taken for granted by the fans this time that the club would face the right questions but instead we were left with a missed opportunity for some accountability. 
 

As others have said though, if you’re not there, you can’t really complain. 

True but at a ticketed event it's the luck of the draw who gets the tickets, or should be anyway.

I don't know why it's held at the H&C, on a non match day, with a limit of 200.

The Q&A's I've attended were all held under the Dolman, a huge space as was. A couple were in the evening like the H&C but crucially not ticketed so anyone could turn up. Most though were either at 1pm before a match, or on an open day, so masses of fans were at the ground anyway.

You could organise beforehand as much as you like these days to get the right people there asking the right questions but under the current format no guarantee any of them would get tickets.

Btw, as I've said previously it was always an easy ride for the panel, there again none of the Q&A's were held at a controversial time for the club like this last one, more like an excited audience to 'welcome Steve Coppell', or those attending were charmed by GJ and Colin Sexstone. Even SL was smiley and forthcoming in those days!

 

[Bristol Rob]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Same as usual then, an easy ride for the panel with most fans seemingly just happy to be there, and no tough questions.

Regarding the above pre H&C post, and that it only takes 3 or 4 tough questions to make things really interesting, I note the likes of @GrahamC, @Bristol Rob and @W-S-M Seagull (maybe amongst others from OTIB) obtained tickets but have said they were unfortunately unable to attend on the night.

Who knows, perhaps these 3 were the ones who would have represented the majority on OTIB by asking those tough questions, thus making it a much less comfortable night for the panel and the whole event far more interesting.

It doesn't take much to make a big difference to the whole event, and this trio of absentees may have been very fortunate for JL and BT.

 

I wasn't really a fan of the idea of having a poll and collating questions in advance as it might dilute any news/debate, but having watched (some, not all - I lost the will) of the stream, it might be an idea if maybe SCAT/Someone suggested that they use their in-box/email to collect questions. 

Not so much with view to catching out any future panel, but to ensure that any questions answered aren't them reading from a pre-prepared crib sheet. 

That said, whilst the difficult questions are always the ones that most are interested in hearing about, you still have to give a platform for those who want to thank SL/JL/BT/NF and anyone else who sits on the stage, or indeed ask any questions that don't really add much value overall. Their opportunities shouldn't be denied either.

Not sure what the solution is, but I'm now far more on the side of a coordinated set of questions than I was, and that is based purely on the questions asked. 

If anything, it would be a better session if the manager wasn't there, and there was a seperate Q&A with him further down the line, where praise, players, transfer targets, injuries, formations and opposition could all be covered.