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Scott Twine


DaveF

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Woz we think of his debut then?

Set pieces were very good, a refreshing change to see us get on the end of a few, at least one of which we probably should have scored from.

In open play he wasn't the best, seemed to be trying hard to impress with some difficult balls. He looks to have some vision and tries a lot of through balls.

All in all reasonably promising?

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Really good set piece taker. Will bring chances. In open play he was what I thought we were signing. Decent on ball, with the odd bit off brilliance. 
 

Actually I didn’t think he could head the ball 😂. Had absolutely no right to win that and if I was their manager I’d ripping  Livermore a new one. 

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If it wasn’t for him we would have lost that game today. What a leap of a header it was. Take a bow mate. We could have won it a stupid handball to give away. Watford didn’t look like they was go to score from open play to me. 

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22 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Great set pieces but gave the ball away a fair bit. He’s going to give the ball away more than most if he is trying the ambitious pass, which is fair enough.  I’m sure his general play will improve quite quickly 

Don’t often agree with you but this time I will 😉

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29 minutes ago, DaveF said:

Woz we think of his debut then?

Set pieces were very good, a refreshing change to see us get on the end of a few, at least one of which we probably should have scored from.

In open play he wasn't the best, seemed to be trying hard to impress with some difficult balls. He looks to have some vision and tries a lot of through balls.

All in all reasonably promising?

Good player. We signing him or what though ?

Not a chance we are going up, and he must be on a big wedge.

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30 minutes ago, DaveF said:

In open play he wasn't the best, seemed to be trying hard to impress with some difficult balls. He looks to have some vision and tries a lot of through balls.

I thought it looked as though he needs to adjust to new team mates. I agree the vision was good and he attempted some passes that, if they came off, would have been great. But some were too far behind or too far ahead of others. Maybe our players need to learn him as well? They've had half a season without someone (Scott) picking those passes out so maybe some adjustment in expectations is needed there.

I think with a bit of bedding in we might see more of those come off. We've seen Mehmeti become a bit more of a team player in the past few months and I hope Twine can gel in time.

That being said, it's a bit of a shame if we need a half season loanee to take time to gel...really he needs to slot in straight away. Hopefully he doesn't take much time to become effective.

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Liked the look of him. Unlucky not to add an assist to his goal with one of those set-pieces. I just can’t see a world of where Burnley and us agree a fee in the summer, especially if they’re down. So a loan player I won’t let myself fall in love with. 

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5 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I thought it looked as though he needs to adjust to new team mates. I agree the vision was good and he attempted some passes that, if they came off, would have been great. But some were too far behind or too far ahead of others. Maybe our players need to learn him as well? They've had half a season without someone (Scott) picking those passes out so maybe some adjustment in expectations is needed there.

I think with a bit of bedding in we might see more of those come off. We've seen Mehmeti become a bit more of a team player in the past few months and I hope Twine can gel in time.

That being said, it's a bit of a shame if we need a half season loanee to take time to gel...really he needs to slot in straight away. Hopefully he doesn't take much time to become effective.

There is bound to be a period of adjustment.  This is particularly so with a quality player, which I believe he is.  We have seen all this before.

He did score a good goal and we haven’t been scoring enough.  Hope we bring in another out and out striker, but I shan’t be holding my breath.

 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I thought it looked as though he needs to adjust to new team mates. I agree the vision was good and he attempted some passes that, if they came off, would have been great. But some were too far behind or too far ahead of others. Maybe our players need to learn him as well? They've had half a season without someone (Scott) picking those passes out so maybe some adjustment in expectations is needed there.

I think with a bit of bedding in we might see more of those come off. We've seen Mehmeti become a bit more of a team player in the past few months and I hope Twine can gel in time.

That being said, it's a bit of a shame if we need a half season loanee to take time to gel...really he needs to slot in straight away. Hopefully he doesn't take much time to become effective.

Yep, this.

One I recall was back end of first half when he tried to play McCrorie in and got the weight wrong (based on what RM would do) and it was easily cleaned up. I posted at half time that he wasn’t on the same wavelength as his teammates (not saying he’s better or worse - he was just not in sync), and there is a real concern there that we’ve got him as stands for 4 months. If he takes time to slot in, then unless we buy permanently, then we’ve wasted 4 months which was one of my concerns over the loan.

Set pieces - absolutely excellent. Open play - less so but putting that down to bedding in currently. With the caveat he doesn’t have time to bed in!

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1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Dickie and Atkinson should be licking their lips at the set piece delivery.

Would be good to see a back three that included Atkinson and Dickie. Vyner and Tanner on the right of defence is definitely a weakness coming out from the back.

As for Twine, good debut but needs to know when to play the simple ball rather than the speculative one and also understand his defensive role in the team. The one good thing with him in the team is that it should stop us wasting corners by playing them short. Great delivery and with him and TGH on the pitch we have 2 players who can really make the most of dead ball opportunities.

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I think his position will be key for Manning next season. Whether it’s him or a “Twine type”, he found pockets of space centrally that we haven’t seen someone do for many years, even if not always threatening he was involved somehow. 

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Good debut.

Great header & desire to win it.

Excellent new dimension to our attacking play with good quality deliveries into the box. A real shame Rob Atkinson isn't fit to capitalise.!

Good addition, who I'd hope will become more & more effective as he & teammates get to know each other more. 

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7 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

For what seems the fifteenth time. Nobody is doubting the quality of the player or the fact he improves our squad, and nobody that I’ve seen is unhappy he’s here.

All anyone is saying is that it may give us a short term boost but may not be sensible long term (both in terms of cost and “starting over”) particularly as this season is not going to result in anything bar mid table. The fact that some won’t accept that’s a valid point is the thing that’s probably more bizarre.

Not allowed to speak sense, sorry!!

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5 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

For what seems the fifteenth time. Nobody is doubting the quality of the player or the fact he improves our squad, and nobody that I’ve seen is unhappy he’s here.

All anyone is saying is that it may give us a short term boost but may not be sensible long term (both in terms of cost and “starting over”) particularly as this season is not going to result in anything bar mid table. The fact that some won’t accept that’s a valid point is the thing that’s probably more bizarre.

It's definitely a valid point although slightly over stated on here. To say nothing is going to happen this season is abit premature although maybe realistic. Surely finishing as high up as possible is good for next season i.e signing other players, momentum carried. We will have a better chance with Twine.

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I'm going to go against the grain now.
I thought it was a promising debut, the desire to win the header was great. I thought he moved well and gave options, he will only improve as he spends more time with the squad. But I do not see his delivery as so good to get excited about just yet. It may have been decent, it possibly was better than we have been used to, but it was still a bit floaty/loopy. In the right areas undoubtably , but I would like to see more whip and less time for the defence to set.  I'm hoping it gets even better.  I also eagerly wait for his first free kick chance for a shot. 

As for him being here, and I totally get and agree that loans can be pointless and expensive, but if we couldn't get a "Twine" on a permanent and it was felt it was important to how Manning wants to play it might be good value. 

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10 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

For what seems the fifteenth time. Nobody is doubting the quality of the player or the fact he improves our squad, and nobody that I’ve seen is unhappy he’s here.

All anyone is saying is that it may give us a short term boost but may not be sensible long term (both in terms of cost and “starting over”) particularly as this season is not going to result in anything bar mid table. The fact that some won’t accept that’s a valid point is the thing that’s probably more bizarre.

I don't think all we're getting is a short term boost, even if he isn't here next season. We're getting a player who helps us get closer to the way Manning wants us to play, in a role not easily filled by anyone else in the squad.

He clearly wants us to play with a 10, or two 10s, and now we can.

And there's a chance we sign him in the summer anyway. If we don't, we look for an alternative with similar attributes.

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2 minutes ago, Harry R said:

I don't think all we're getting is a short term boost, even if he isn't here next season. We're getting a player who helps us get closer to the way Manning wants us to play, in a role not easily filled by anyone else in the squad.

He clearly wants us to play with a 10, or two 10s, and now we can.

And there's a chance we sign him in the summer anyway. If we don't, we look for an alternative with similar attributes.

And to be clear, that’s totally valid as a point of view. But that’s not what you said. You said you thought the negativity was bizarre. What the “negativity” (which I don’t think it is) is, is just a long term concern. And for avoidance of doubt, I agree with @RedRoss that it’s having to be said too many times but it’s precisely because of posts like this which seem to not realise there is another viewpoint!

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3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

And to be clear, that’s totally valid as a point of view. But that’s not what you said. You said you thought the negativity was bizarre. What the “negativity” (which I don’t think it is) is, is just a long term concern. And for avoidance of doubt, I agree with @RedRoss that it’s having to be said too many times but it’s precisely because of posts like this which seem to not realise there is another viewpoint!

OK, fair enough, I don't think your critique is bizarre in itself. What I think is bizarre is how prominent the negative takes have become in the discussion of the Twine signing.

I mean, I see your points as a series of cautious caveats to an exciting loan signing, but they've become the dominant part of the narrative, at least on here.

By exciting, I mean I want to watch him play, I want to watch a City team with a player of his qualities in it, and if that's just for 4 months and then we sign another no. 10 instead I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

 

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23 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I'm going to go against the grain now.
I thought it was a promising debut, the desire to win the header was great. I thought he moved well and gave options, he will only improve as he spends more time with the squad. But I do not see his delivery as so good to get excited about just yet. It may have been decent, it possibly was better than we have been used to, but it was still a bit floaty/loopy. In the right areas undoubtably , but I would like to see more whip and less time for the defence to set.  I'm hoping it gets even better.  I also eagerly wait for his first free kick chance for a shot. 

As for him being here, and I totally get and agree that loans can be pointless and expensive, but if we couldn't get a "Twine" on a permanent and it was felt it was important to how Manning wants to play it might be good value. 

I think the delivery type (from Twine) depends what side he’s on and where is target is.

Typically if you’re going near post, you want a bit flatter, pacier delivery.  You’re aiming for glances, the pace is on the ball.

If you’re going mid goals, back post, you want it more floaty…you want your targets to be able to adjust and attack the flight to get a head (rather than a glance) on it.

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7/10 because he scored.

Looked ok but did not show anything to say £4m.

Needs time to settle in.

Delivery from set pieces looked  pretty good.

Difficult for him to pick passes forward as only Tommy in front of him most of the time.

Do I think he will be the player that makes the difference -No

Why makes the difference - because that is what I would expect if we spend £4m on any player in this market.

 

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think the delivery type (from Twine) depends what side he’s on and where is target is.

Typically if you’re going near post, you want a bit flatter, pacier delivery.  You’re aiming for glances, the pace is on the ball.

If you’re going mid goals, back post, you want it more floaty…you want your targets to be able to adjust and attack the flight to get a head (rather than a glance) on it.

As an aside, I worked out quite quickly that both arms in the air meant outswinger landing just the other side of the penalty spot. Probably needs to be less pronounced 😂

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9 minutes ago, Harry R said:

OK, fair enough, I don't think your critique is bizarre in itself. What I think is bizarre is how prominent the negative takes have become in the discussion of the Twine signing.

 

When Nige was moved along, the club came out and told us whoppers. Which has resulted in some/many doubting just about everything they do/say. You reap what you sow, at the end of the day ....

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2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

As an aside, I worked out quite quickly that both arms in the air meant outswinger landing just the other side of the penalty spot. Probably needs to be less pronounced 😂

Or it means “random” and he’s not very accurate, or is very accurate but on a long statistical run of ‘tails’ landing in the same place… or more likely… what you said. 

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1 minute ago, Crackers Corner said:

i was impressed when knight had a chat on a corner and twine appeared to drop it right on the money to give knight a clear chance on goal.  twines corners were far better than anything I have seen this or last season from us.

 

Said exactly the same,we haven’t had anyone who can take a good corner for years now,as for signing no chance Burnley know he’s top end championship which they will be and we rightly don’t want to pay over the odds,it’s a satisfying outcome for all 

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The biggest risk with loan signings is the potential lack of commitment when they are not tied to the club for more than a few months. Twine’s goal showed that won’t be a problem. His determination and commitment to win that header was as good as anyones.

Biggest criticism would be the number of times he tried to clip the ball from left to right into the box which was easily cleared every time. It was clear it wasn’t working.

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40 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

And to be clear, that’s totally valid as a point of view. But that’s not what you said. You said you thought the negativity was bizarre. What the “negativity” (which I don’t think it is) is, is just a long term concern. And for avoidance of doubt, I agree with @RedRoss that it’s having to be said too many times but it’s precisely because of posts like this which seem to not realise there is another viewpoint!

Regardless of suitability to the LM model, even at Burnley he must be earning a relative fortune, so are we going down that route again ?

He was good btw which is what I expected.

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5 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

The biggest risk with loan signings is the potential lack of commitment when they are not tied to the club for more than a few months. Twine’s goal showed that won’t be a problem. His determination and commitment to win that header was as good as anyones.

Biggest criticism would be the number of times he tried to clip the ball from left to right into the box which was easily cleared every time. It was clear it wasn’t working.

Last paragraph  I reckon early days. McCrorie did a nothing pass 2nd half which is totally to be expected .

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I thought it was a pretty good debut. Right place right time for the goal and right place to make a few adventurous passes which didn't come off but if that clicks for him it'll be a joy for Knighty, Tommy, Nakhi and those around.

Needs some prompting on tracking and the press imo but hopefully that'll be addressed quickly at the HPC.

Looking good overall and might produce those extra goals and points to move us nearer the top 6 but let's give him time 

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Trait wise he reminded me of more advanced playing Charlie Adam in a lot of ways - bloody good set piece, lots of desire, good brain. But a Charlie Adam whose limit is the Championship; not Liverpool. 

For a sensible price he’d be a very good addition. But I don’t think there’s any chance we’d get him for what I think would be a sensible price. 

I think it’s a clever loan move though. I think the way Manning wants us to play requires a player like him. Manning and Twine can start working with and training our forward players to adapt to the movement and running patterns that will be required of them, and then in the summer go and find a similar player at a more reasonable fee. 

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5 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Regardless of suitability to the LM model, even at Burnley he must be earning a relative fortune, so are we going down that route again ?

He was good btw which is what I expected.

I don’t actually think in football terms he’s on a huge wage (it obviously is to the normal working man though!!)

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1 minute ago, Rob k said:

I don’t actually think in football terms he’s on a huge wage (it obviously is to the normal working man though!!)

Dunno Rob I just assumed minimum 25k pw Burnley might be poor relations in the epl but thanks to telly have money to burn compared to us 😁

Not sure how long his contract is there but is a season long loan next year paying part of his wage possible?

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3 minutes ago, Harry said:

Naturally I was very impressed with Twine. 
Lots of comments about his set pieces, which of course will generally be bang on the money. 
But plenty of people saying they thought his ‘general’ play was lacking. 
Not sure what you guys were watching to be honest. 
What I saw was the first time we’ve had a player in bloody years who can find the central spaces behind the striker, receive the ball facing his own goal (which enables the CB’s and CM’s to find a forward pass), control that ball and turn, and make another forward pass. 
It’s how we break the lines and it’s how we’ve always said LM wants to play - but we were always missing that number 10. 
 

If people don’t think his general play was that good then they just have missed that dozen times he dropped into the hole and enabled us to pass it out. 

His strength will come when we have the patterns that will see the wide players making the third man runs once the ball goes into Twine. Because he will be able to turn and feed the ball forward. 
Sometimes he doesn’t even need to turn - 2nd half he came short for a ball from Dickie, had a man up his backside, but managed to flick a first time pass round the corner straight to Conways feet in the centre circle. 
We’ve not had this type of vision and execution from anyone for a long time - someone offering an option for a pass out from the back AND being able to control it and continue to play forwards. 
 

Yes, some of the passes he attempts will not come off. But that’s what a creative player has to do. They have to attempt the ball that might only come of 3 times out of 10. That’s what coaches call “being brave with the ball”. It’s taking the opportunity/responsibility to try the difficult things. We will definitely have that with Twine. He will try things. They won’t always come off, but when they do we will find ourselves in good attacking positions. And once we get those runners outside him, I can’t wait!! 

He is a top end Champ player as a minimum who will bed in, improve and make the team better.

Im just puzzled about the loan because I cant see him turning us into a playoff team unless we had that option to sign therefore looking at next year, but I appreciate others see it differently.

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Good corners, got up very well for the headed goal but the game passed him by other than that.

Only 1 game of course, but seemed to lack pace and strength, but didnt replace that with quality on the ball or clever passes and vision.

I was hoping for a young version of Jamie Paterson, upon first viewing he's not as good or clever as Paterson in open play.

Hopefully he improves, but part of me isn't really fussed as we've only got him for 4 months!

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I take onboard what @Harry says, but I’d say it was a bit gushing.  He got caught / ran into trouble a few times.

I’m not fussed, it’s his debut, he’ll adjust, but I think a tendency to rate based on what he can do rather than exactly what he did do.  Goal on debut, plus a nice, steady start imho.

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12 minutes ago, Harry said:

Naturally I was very impressed with Twine. 
Lots of comments about his set pieces, which of course will generally be bang on the money. 
But plenty of people saying they thought his ‘general’ play was lacking. 
Not sure what you guys were watching to be honest. 
What I saw was the first time we’ve had a player in bloody years who can find the central spaces behind the striker, receive the ball facing his own goal (which enables the CB’s and CM’s to find a forward pass), control that ball and turn, and make another forward pass. 
It’s how we break the lines and it’s how we’ve always said LM wants to play - but we were always missing that number 10. 
 

If people don’t think his general play was that good then they just have missed that dozen times he dropped into the hole and enabled us to pass it out. 

His strength will come when we have the patterns that will see the wide players making the third man runs once the ball goes into Twine. Because he will be able to turn and feed the ball forward. 
Sometimes he doesn’t even need to turn - 2nd half he came short for a ball from Dickie, had a man up his backside, but managed to flick a first time pass round the corner straight to Conways feet in the centre circle. 
We’ve not had this type of vision and execution from anyone for a long time - someone offering an option for a pass out from the back AND being able to control it and continue to play forwards. 
 

Yes, some of the passes he attempts will not come off. But that’s what a creative player has to do. They have to attempt the ball that might only come of 3 times out of 10. That’s what coaches call “being brave with the ball”. It’s taking the opportunity/responsibility to try the difficult things. We will definitely have that with Twine. He will try things. They won’t always come off, but when they do we will find ourselves in good attacking positions. And once we get those runners outside him, I can’t wait!! 

@Harry But we need our defence and midfield to mix up the passes they provide. It's all very well to keep going across the back 3/4 and then to the touchlines, left and right, or back to the defence, from whence it came. We must also mix this up with passing forward in the middle of the field and opening opponents defences with a more direct route.

Every time our midfield passes the ball back to defence is, at present, an opportunity wasted.

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21 minutes ago, Puckle_red said:

Good corners, got up very well for the headed goal but the game passed him by other than that.

Only 1 game of course, but seemed to lack pace and strength, but didnt replace that with quality on the ball or clever passes and vision.

I was hoping for a young version of Jamie Paterson, upon first viewing he's not as good or clever as Paterson in open play.

Hopefully he improves, but part of me isn't really fussed as we've only got him for 4 months!

⬇️⬇️⬇️

5 minutes ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Think if I listed things I was hoping for from Twine, I’d get to “quite good at macramé” before a young Jamie Paterson. 

I like the thinking about style comparison to Pato.  Not quite the same, but I get where you’re coming from.

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12 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

@Harry But we need our defence and midfield to mix up the passes they provide. It's all very well to keep going across the back 3/4 and then to the touchlines, left and right, or back to the defence, from whence it came. We must also mix this up with passing forward in the middle of the field and opening opponents defences with a more direct route.

Every time our midfield passes the ball back to defence is, at present, an opportunity wasted.

But that is exactly what Twine offered today. 
Someone to give an option in the central areas for a ball to feet from the back. 
Twine’s presence today allowed us to play that ball about a dozen times today, whereas we’d usually not have had that option and ended up with a sideways pass or a lump down the channel. 
This is exactly what Twine allowed us to do today, to play out quicker 

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35 minutes ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Think if I listed things I was hoping for from Twine, I’d get to “quite good at macramé” before a young Jamie Paterson. 

I'm not sure what that is so it's gone over my head! 

Paterson was underrated here, a clever player, technically gifted, could use both feet, score goals, create goals. Often labelled with going missing but I just didnt see that at all. 

Twine was ok today, but hopefully can prove to be as useful as Paterson was. 

One other thing, LM said playing on the left doesn't get the best out of him, and ok, he wasn't hugging the touchline, but he was definitely left of centre.

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