Davefevs Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 12 minutes ago, mozo said: No one is saying that Manning's time is up, but as was the case with Nige, there are people questioning him with every dropped point. Never gonna change. PPG is a massive over simplification, and is only important relevant to our rivals. And there are others claiming he’s mastered it after every win!!! There is some good debate to be had, some good bits so far, some not so good bits. As usual there is some opinion spouted as fact, on either side of the fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 It's not a ppg, manning is better or Pearson is better for me, I've lost trust in the club and the board, which in turn is making me fall out of love with city Are we better under manning, no were we better under Pearson no, Nothing has changed except the lies and the bullshit being spouted from those in charge of the club 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 2 hours ago, Monkeh said: It's not a ppg, manning is better or Pearson is better for me, I've lost trust in the club and the board, which in turn is making me fall out of love with city Are we better under manning, no were we better under Pearson no, Nothing has changed except the lies and the bullshit being spouted from those in charge of the club You can always dislike and distrust a particular board (or manager for that matter) but the 'club' is far bigger than that - to me the club is it's history, your fellow City fans, and supporting the team. I'd never let a few individuals put me off Bristol City FC. 3 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said: You can always dislike and distrust a particular board (or manager for that matter) but the 'club' is far bigger than that - to me the club is it's history, your fellow City fans, and supporting the team. I'd never let a few individuals put me off Bristol City FC. I appreciate this post, and I will get over it, but its just how I feel at the moment sadly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topper 123 Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 I think manning has to have a pre season and maybe bring in a quality striker , his signing of twine I think adds a little class to our midfield at the right age, NP was at the end fire fighting with signings of cornick and mehmeti both poor signings in my opinion so it’s a little early to start throwing accusations of poor management at manning , the lad is doing ok in a transitional period where we do seem to be having more possession and more shots at goal than the NP later days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The turtle Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 Turtle says, they don't expect clean sheets. Next game... Course it was 0-0 Go me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted January 30 Author Report Share Posted January 30 17 from 14 now...1.21PPG Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with a point against Coventry tonight... Let's see where we are in a month's time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 Is there any point in ignoring the cup games when analysing Manning? Or is it moaners ignore and happy claps include? Personally I would include every game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCGav Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 (edited) Still think Manning is a good pick up. But his having a worse record than Nige after equal games (this season) does make Jon look a plonker. I’ll always wonder what this season may have been under Nige. And I’ll always blame the Lansdown’s for my never knowing. Edited January 30 by BCFCGav 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 (edited) 2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: Is there any point in ignoring the cup games when analysing Manning? Or is it moaners ignore and happy claps include? Personally I would include every game Its points per game… not sure how you want to include points gained by cup results in that?? Edited January 30 by formerly known as ivan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 3 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said: Its points per game… not sure how you want to include points gained by cup results in that?? We are judging Manning v Pearson it seems on this thread. Why not take the whole body of work and judge that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 6 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: Is there any point in ignoring the cup games when analysing Manning? Or is it moaners ignore and happy claps include? Personally I would include every game Well no, unless it is a tournament with a Group Stage there is no real argument. Useful for a win % perspective or similar but.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: We are judging Manning v Pearson it seems on this thread. Why not take the whole body of work and judge that? Cup games are one offs, replays aside. You always get the occasional performance and upset. It’s the league form you have to look at for a true reflection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNQ Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: Is there any point in ignoring the cup games when analysing Manning? Or is it moaners ignore and happy claps include? Personally I would include every game Fair enough, but then consider all opposition, Leicester and Leeds away from home as well as Ipswich at the gate. Three tough games there lost by the odd goal under Nige, his point tally could have been higher with easier games like Blackburn and Preston away and Millwall at home.. The return in league points since the change in manager is shocking and makes a mockery of why we changed in the first place nobody can or should try and defend that fact. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 Just now, formerly known as ivan said: Cup games are one offs, replays aside. You always get the occasional performance and upset. It’s the league form you have to look at for a true reflection. Have to agree to disagree there then. The cup games have shown us what we can achieve. We just need the consistency. Ignoring some performances/results seems bizarre just because they were in a certain competition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 1 minute ago, And Its Smith said: We are judging Manning v Pearson it seems on this thread. Why not take the whole body of work and judge that? Indeed. Especially when the sample size is so small. PPG is such a crude measure over a small sample because it’s highly dependent on who you’ve played. It’s a mixed bag for Manning so far, but it was Pearson too - and he is implementing his own style while also not having bought any of his own players yet. The guy needs patience and time, it isn’t his fault what happened to Pearson, and at this stage I’d say PPG isn’t a very valuable metric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 1 minute ago, FNQ said: Fair enough, but then consider all opposition, Leicester and Leeds away from home as well as Ipswich at the gate. Three tough games there lost by the odd goal under Nige, his point tally could have been higher with easier games like Blackburn and Preston away and Millwall at home.. The return in league points since the change in manager is shocking and makes a mockery of why we changed in the first place nobody can or should try and defend that fact. I would never judge a manager solely by points tally anyway. Just adding to this thread querying why cup games are omitted. Football is fine margins so I’d always look at performance first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 Just now, ChippenhamRed said: Indeed. Especially when the sample size is so small. PPG is such a crude measure over a small sample because it’s highly dependent on who you’ve played. It’s a mixed bag for Manning so far, but it was Pearson too - and he is implementing his own style while also not having bought any of his own players yet. The guy needs patience and time, it isn’t his fault what happened to Pearson, and at this stage I’d say PPG isn’t a very valuable metric. Wait til you see the PPG once we've played the big guns.... Nothing against Manning at all but he was deliberately appointed at a time after we'd played all the parachute teams first time around and ahead of a spell of much easier games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 1 minute ago, ChippenhamRed said: Indeed. Especially when the sample size is so small. PPG is such a crude measure over a small sample because it’s highly dependent on who you’ve played. It’s a mixed bag for Manning so far, but it was Pearson too - and he is implementing his own style while also not having bought any of his own players yet. The guy needs patience and time, it isn’t his fault what happened to Pearson, and at this stage I’d say PPG isn’t a very valuable metric. Completely agreed. Crude, simplistic and I’d add naive as well. It’s as if the manager has 100% control over results which simply isn’t the case 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 3 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said: Cup games are one offs, replays aside. You always get the occasional performance and upset. It’s the league form you have to look at for a true reflection. Utter nonsense. All games contribute towards a manager’s reputation and help demonstrate what the team is capable of and how the coach deals with superior opposition. Manning deserves a lot of credit for the West Ham games in particular, not for them to be ignored because of some weird rule you made up that for some reason they don’t count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 And there was me thinking we just get worse after Christmas every season!!! That’s what it feels like anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 3 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said: Utter nonsense. All games contribute towards a manager’s reputation and help demonstrate what the team is capable of and how the coach deals with superior opposition. Manning deserves a lot of credit for the West Ham games in particular, not for them to be ignored because of some weird rule you made up that for some reason they don’t count. And that reputation is currently a couple of decent cup performances vs not having won in the league since 26th December! What’s you point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 2 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said: And that reputation is currently a couple of decent cup performances vs not having won in the league since 26th December! What’s you point? Nope, the reputation is made up of ALL the games, including the three wins in a row before the current run of games without a win you have selectively chosen. You are picking statistics to suit your argument. My point is the cup games should also be considered when assessing Manning’s performance. And overall it’s currently a mixed bag - and probably about par for the squad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 13 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said: Wait til you see the PPG once we've played the big guns.... Nothing against Manning at all but he was deliberately appointed at a time after we'd played all the parachute teams first time around and ahead of a spell of much easier games. Don't forget that the injury crisis had reached such a point that improvement in that area was the only likely trajectory too. *Albeit Parachute wise in NP 14 we went to Leeds and Leicester, Manning 14 included Southampton Away, Norwich Home, Watford Home and Away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjak Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 10 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said: Indeed. Especially when the sample size is so small. PPG is such a crude measure over a small sample because it’s highly dependent on who you’ve played. It’s a mixed bag for Manning so far, but it was Pearson too - and he is implementing his own style while also not having bought any of his own players yet. The guy needs patience and time, it isn’t his fault what happened to Pearson, and at this stage I’d say PPG isn’t a very valuable metric. Exactly............how can Pearson and Manning be precisely compared when one manager has had no real chance to bring in his own choice of player and the very same one has been here for a period of around 10% of the others tenure? It's far too early for any direct comparison, apart from knee jerk rantings? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 14 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said: And that reputation is currently a couple of decent cup performances vs not having won in the league since 26th December! What’s you point? If we’d lost the cup games you’d mention them and include them in any opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 Just now, And Its Smith said: If we’d lost the cup games you’d mention them and include them in any opinion Not when talking about points per game! If you really want to include cup games then what is the win ratio? I can’t be arsed to work that out as to me the cup games are irrelevant! Was Lee Johnson a good manger cus he beat Man Utd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 2 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said: Not when talking about points per game! If you really want to include cup games then what is the win ratio? I can’t be arsed to work that out as to me the cup games are irrelevant! Was Lee Johnson a good manger cus he beat Man Utd? I’m not bothered what the win ratio is as I won’t pour over numbers to form an opinion. I will accept that football is often about small margins. I will accept we have been good and bad under manning with games being decided on individual errors or moments of brilliance. I will recognise what he’s trying to do and give him time before judging him. **** points per game. **** win ratios. Just chill out, watch the ******* games and give him some time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjmcity Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 23 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: Completely agreed. Crude, simplistic and I’d add naive as well. It’s as if the manager has 100% control over results which simply isn’t the case Good point, people always seem to forget there’s a team opposite you also trying to win a game and having the subsequent conversations on their own forums. 2-1 tonight and it’s a great win for manning and although blunt up front it would have been our good football getting us to that result, keeper spills a shot and it’s a negative on Manning’s ppg. for me and where we are at the moment it’s about the eye test, and I prefer watching us now under manning, although the same killer pass/finishing problems persist. this conversation continues under this banner because of the ludicrous statements by the board on the capabilities of the squad. Why not just say it’s a different direction? Guessing there could be something in this about inciting the wrath of the unions or whatever for an unfair sacking (does that happen?) either way Any gains then this season would have been a delightful bonus positive, it’s so frustrating and the board gave so much ammo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 1 minute ago, And Its Smith said: I’m not bothered what the win ratio is as I won’t pour over numbers to form an opinion. I will accept that football is often about small margins. I will accept we have been good and bad under manning with games being decided on individual errors or moments of brilliance. I will recognise what he’s trying to do and give him time before judging him. **** points per game. **** win ratios. Just chill out, watch the ******* games and give him some time Each to their own I guess. Some people want more than mediocre… 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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