Manning post match

[JP Hampton]

5 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I agree - I didn't mean to suggest you were saying it was Manning who was responsible for it. Just that it's not the first time we look like we've finally cracked it and then suddenly put in an abysmal performance. 

[Northern Red]

5 minutes ago, Jose said:

It wouldn’t surprise me if he was. He will get backing like LJ. The useless ***** would never sack him as it would admit they were wrong. 
 

That reason alone is why we have to just bare with him and hope he learns.  Am far from convinced though. 

People used to say this about LJ and it ultimately didn't do him any good when it was felt that he'd run his course.

He'll get time and resources, possibly more than he might end up deserving, but I don't think they'll be shy about moving him on if it saves their own skin.

[95red]

3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Lucky "The Clown" was on form today then wasn't it?

Yeh he was luckily 

[Street red]

3 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

A lack of consistency has been a problem since 1976 and certainly from 82. 
 

what’s of his creation is a lack of consistency playing the way he is implementing. We couldn’t win the ball, trap it, pass it or keep possession anywhere in their half consistently today. Terrible! 
 

Yes consistency is a thing, but that today wasn’t about consistency it was about being truly awful at playing the way Mr Manning wants against a well organized team that has had next to nothing to offer all season. 
 

This was exacerbated by the inability to change anything to make us more potent, with the best bench we have had ‘in theory’ in years. 
 

I can overlook Mbude as he really was thrown in to utter garbage, but most of them should hang their heads in shame. Including the staff. That’s the second time we have been pathetic in five games (both at home) and have not been able to change things.
 

Now that inability to change things when we are not playing well has become consistent. 
 

 

 

And he has an assistant and a man in the stands(Analyst) to change things and make it happen a couple of wins against prem teams doesn't change a thing in my eyes if we want promotion we should be looking at beating teams like QPR breaking them down if we can't then its mid table finishes in the championship.

[Myleftpeg]

Fans are so fickle, sad really

[bpexile]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

We looked tired, slow, leaden of foot, unbalanced, and devoid of proper movement to create passing opportunities, especially in the last two thirds. 

A shambles performance devoid of ideas on how to change things. 

Poor personal performances, poor selection imo, and poor tactical creativity. 

QPR are one of the worst sides in the division. 

We looked even worse today. 

 

That for me says it all for me. Yes, a disappointing but not totally unexpected result considering our record against the teams fighting for existence in our league!

[exAtyeoMax]

If Manning has to play stipulated by Tins, is this result on Tins?

I don’t really understand this remit. How can the coach negate other teams if he’s forced to play a certain way?

[REDOXO]

24 minutes ago, Street red said:

And he has an assistant and a man in the stands(Analyst) to change things and make it happen a couple of wins against prem teams doesn't change a thing in my eyes if we want promotion we should be looking at beating teams like QPR breaking them down if we can't then its mid table finishes in the championship.

Exactly.
 

Its a bit depressing that we have brought a bloke in who has done nothing but complain about how much time he has had with the players  

If I’m not completely mistaken he has not got us notably further up the league and nearer the top six despite having been allowed to bring in Twine and Mbude, his own staff and have players back from injury. 
 

I do feel a little sorry for the bloke sometimes as he is not responsible for all the deceit and lies around his appointment. But we are quite capable of being as awful as we were good recently and he is responsible for getting a tune out of what he has, regardless of what his preferred style is. 

Edited February 17 by REDOXO

[CodeRed]

17 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I find him a bit irritating to be honest. Is he being honest with himself? 
that really feels like a manager/coach mistake today. 

Yes, a bit of humility ...."we got it wrong today, we need to find better solutions etc" ...wouldn't go amiss. 

I think he pre plans the subs, ie players x,y, and z will get 60 minutes and then we'll freshen it up to keep the intensity with a,b,and c, regardless of how the game's panning out, and won't deviate from "the process". 

[exAtyeoMax]

2 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Yes, a bit of humility ...."we got it wrong today, we need to find better solutions etc" ...wouldn't go amiss. 

I think he pre plans the subs, ie players x,y, and z will get 60 minutes and then we'll freshen it up to keep the intensity with a,b,and c, regardless of how the game's panning out, and won't deviate from "the process". 

Hmm doesn’t strike me as the right approach 

[Natchfever]

7 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Yes, a bit of humility ...."we got it wrong today, we need to find better solutions etc" ...wouldn't go amiss. 

I think he pre plans the subs, ie players x,y, and z will get 60 minutes and then we'll freshen it up to keep the intensity with a,b,and c, regardless of how the game's panning out, and won't deviate from "the process". 

Yeah maybe.

What looks right on a coaching course or blackboard might not relate to the real world so sort it please.

[Silvio Dante]

4 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Hmm doesn’t strike me as the right approach 

I posted the below after the Southampton away game, around Liams general formulaic nature and inability to deviate from a plan. That pattern was evident three games in - it’s seen in the subs, the systems etc. When it works it’s great, but my one word Id use to describe Liam generally is “unreactive”. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

He pointed out the very obvious. 

That we didn't move the ball quick enough, and that it was easy for QPR to position themselves and defend anything with ease. 

We seem a one trick pony...reliant on moving the ball quickly from side to side, using width and speed on the flanks, and totally reliant on everything offensively coming from wide. Mainly crosses into the box. 

It looks nice when done well...but it shows how easy it is to defend and play against when done ' lethargically '. 

We looked tired, slow, leaden of foot, unbalanced, and devoid of proper movement to create passing opportunities, especially in the last two thirds. 

A shambles performance devoid of ideas on how to change things. 

Poor personal performances, poor selection imo, and poor tactical creativity. 

QPR are one of the worst sides in the division. 

We looked even worse today. 

 

If I’m in a generous mood I’d say it was - one game too far over recent weeks and mental and physical fatigue setting in.

A huge effort on Tuesday, the effects of that seen today.

Sharpness gone for too many players today.

I actually thought Vyner opened the ball out to McCrorie really quickly today, but others wasted several opportunities to bypass the blocker by attempting a chipped / driven a pass out to him.  A lack of bravery?  Or just mentally not seeing the pitch in-front of them.

I think others have covered the less-generous aspects!!!!

 

[exAtyeoMax]

1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

I posted the below after the Southampton away game, around Liams general formulaic nature and inability to deviate from a plan. That pattern was evident three games in - it’s seen in the subs, the systems etc. When it works it’s great, but my one word Id use to describe Liam generally is “unreactive”. 

Yes, you have been quite consistent with your analysis since LM’s tenure began. Because of that I have taken an interest in that too. To begin with I put it down to lack of options, due to small squad, injuries etc, he does remind me of LJ in that regard, just a bit one dimensional. Or gung-ho. Plus the notion that he is required to set up a certain way concerns me greatly. How does that look in reality? All very well on paper, or the HPC…

[Ivorguy]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

A lack of consistency has been a problem for the last few seasons. It's certainly not new or unique to Manning that we look like we've made progress and then pull a terrible game out of nowhere, then go on a run of defeats and draws before pulling off a win when we least expect it. Ultimately Manning needs to solve it if he is going to succeed here but it's certainly not a problem of his creation. 

The difference being that on paper he has a far stronger squad

[Silvio Dante]

8 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Yes, you have been quite consistent with your analysis since LM’s tenure began. Because of that I have taken an interest in that too. To begin with I put it down to lack of options, due to small squad, injuries etc, he does remind me of LJ in that regard, just a bit one dimensional. Or gung-ho. Plus the notion that he is required to set up a certain way concerns me greatly. How does that look in reality? All very well on paper, or the HPC…

I think it’s in part being a bit of a “textbook” coach. Important to say that I really don’t think you have to have been a top level player to be a top level manager (God, even at grassroots the under 12s I coach are all going to be better players than I was), but you need to be able to react and shape things to how the game is going, often on the fly. An issue with a “total textbook” coach (and LM has forgotten more about the game than I know) is that they’re so ingrained in the book that they can’t cope with things that don’t follow the pattern.
 

That happens across every way of life - we’ve all seen really smart people who know everything in theory but struggle with the practice. It’s kind of what my reading of Liam is. Fantastic on textbook, but lacks intuition. I’m not sure I’m wrong on that from his career to date both here and elsewhere.

Edited February 17 by Silvio Dante

[exAtyeoMax]

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think it’s in part being a bit of a “textbook” coach. Important to say that I really don’t think you have to have been a top level player to be a top level manager (God, even at grassroots the under 12s I coach are all going to be better players than I was), but you need to be able to react and shape things to how the game is going, often on the fly. An issue with a “total textbook” coach (and LM has forgotten more about the game than I know) is that they’re so ingrained in the book that they can’t cope with things that don’t follow the pattern.
 

That happens across every way of life - we’ve all seen really smart people who know everything in theory but struggle with the practice. It’s kind of what my reading of Liam is. Fantastic on textbook, but lacks intuition. I’m not sure I’m wrong on that from his career to date both here and elsewhere.

That’s not what we want or need, we need a manager with decent coaches. 
 

[Davefevs]

40 minutes ago, Street red said:

And he has an assistant and a man in the stands(Analyst) to change things and make it happen a couple of wins against prem teams doesn't change a thing in my eyes if we want promotion we should be looking at beating teams like QPR breaking them down if we can't then its mid table finishes in the championship.

I STILL WANT TO HEAR FROM HOGGY!

 

There is a serious point to this.  Hearing a “presser” from Hoggy would give Manning a break.

Nige did it with Phlegm, and you got a very different type of interview.

[1team]

2 hours ago, Gert Mare said:

Seems we’re better when we play the Nige way like we did against Southampton, revert to possession based Manningball and it’s normal strangle the life out of the game dross.

How very dare you suggest NP had the system right.

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

If I’m in a generous mood I’d say it was - one game too far over recent weeks and mental and physical fatigue setting in.

A huge effort on Tuesday, the effects of that seen today.

Sharpness gone for too many players today.

I actually thought Vyner opened the ball out to McCrorie really quickly today, but others wasted several opportunities to bypass the blocker by attempting a chipped / driven a pass out to him.  A lack of bravery?  Or just mentally not seeing the pitch in-front of them.

I think others have covered the less-generous aspects!!!!

 

At least Manning admits he was at fault. 

Quote...

The discipline element, the emotional side, the changes I made,” Manning added, when asked what led to so much space for the opposition after half-time. “You try and impact the game, you try and chase it a little bit by making changes that don’t always help. Collectively, me included, it just wasn’t good enough.

“You could arguably change quite a few so you end up trying to have a positive impact on the game by putting people on, but it then disrupted things, we lost structure. And the actual one time that we played the pattern that we went through yesterday - Tommy has his chance; ball wide, back through the middle, if the centre-back comes across.

[The Constant Rabbit]

Under Nige the gap between good and bad performances had closed considerably as time went on. Things seemed to have finally gelled and all that was needed was a good run with injuries so we could kick on.

 

Seems like we have gone backwards in this regard.

 

Southampton was brilliant. All credit to LM - best performance of his tenure, narrowly shading Watford away.

 

Then this. 

 

The gap between Southampton and QPR games was so far apart that I cannot fathom why.

 

Tiredness should not play that much of a difference - not to THAT extent.

 

In fairness LM made 3 early (for him) subs - but that had no effect.

 

 

Some players reverted to their 'behaviours' of eons ago.

 

Wells, I'm looking at you for that selfish abomination of a FK.

 

It smacks of lack of respect for the manager - respect in not having any belief that LM has the nous to have a Plan B.

 

The lack of respect to not trust LM about Mbude and his ability at this level.  LM thought Mbude could perform. The players did not and cut him (rightly) out of the game.

 

This is very concerning.

 

It says to me LM does not have the dressing room fully believing in his message and tactics.

 

Manning would be very well served to sit down with Dickie, James and Conway (for example) and ask if the message is getting from manager to players, and if it is, why is no-one listening to it.

 

Small fractures easily turn into big ones - it needs addressing now.

Edited February 17 by The Constant Rabbit

[Dr Balls]

2 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

The average length of time for a Manager in the Championship is 12 months. He won't be here in 3.5 years time

But we aren’t an average club in the Championship. Only if we are truly awful and really at risk of relegation will the club get rid of Manning. Keep repeating dross performances like that for long enough and it’s not impossible, although he’s safe this season, assuming we get to 50 points…

[Dr Balls]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think it’s in part being a bit of a “textbook” coach. Important to say that I really don’t think you have to have been a top level player to be a top level manager (God, even at grassroots the under 12s I coach are all going to be better players than I was), but you need to be able to react and shape things to how the game is going, often on the fly. An issue with a “total textbook” coach (and LM has forgotten more about the game than I know) is that they’re so ingrained in the book that they can’t cope with things that don’t follow the pattern.
 

That happens across every way of life - we’ve all seen really smart people who know everything in theory but struggle with the practice. It’s kind of what my reading of Liam is. Fantastic on textbook, but lacks intuition. I’m not sure I’m wrong on that from his career to date both here and elsewhere.

This goes back to my comment on another thread that he has been coaching for 10 years or so at different levels. If he hasn’t worked out how to impact a game as a coach by now, it might suggest that he never will. Which is a major failing if he is ever to be successful. I give as a contrast Gary O’Neill. He has been a coach for maybe half the time of Manning if that, but clearly has a much better idea of how to change things during a game.

[Jerseybean]

OS: https://www.bcfc.co.uk/video/interviews/hugely-disappointing-manning/

[Aipearcey]

1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

Yes, a bit of humility ...."we got it wrong today, we need to find better solutions etc" ...wouldn't go amiss. 

I think he pre plans the subs, ie players x,y, and z will get 60 minutes and then we'll freshen it up to keep the intensity with a,b,and c, regardless of how the game's panning out, and won't deviate from "the process". 

I’ve said that this afternoon, I think he had too much to choose from today and when Bell went down injured, he had to make a quick decision and the plan went out the window.

[Silvio Dante]

10 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

This goes back to my comment on another thread that he has been coaching for 10 years or so at different levels. If he hasn’t worked out how to impact a game as a coach by now, it might suggest that he never will. Which is a major failing if he is ever to be successful. I give as a contrast Gary O’Neill. He has been a coach for maybe half the time of Manning if that, but clearly has a much better idea of how to change things during a game.

The concern for me is that if you read the comments from Dons and Oxford fans there is a very similar thematic. That says to me that this is who he is - this isn’t teething, this is his style - focused, process driven but massively unable to adapt or be intuitive. Like you, I think he’s never going to change in view of the evidence to date - or he would have by now.

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

If I’m in a generous mood I’d say it was - one game too far over recent weeks and mental and physical fatigue setting in.

A huge effort on Tuesday, the effects of that seen today.

Sharpness gone for too many players today.

I actually thought Vyner opened the ball out to McCrorie really quickly today, but others wasted several opportunities to bypass the blocker by attempting a chipped / driven a pass out to him.  A lack of bravery?  Or just mentally not seeing the pitch in-front of them.

I think others have covered the less-generous aspects!!!!

 

Generous, but fair point too Dave.

I’ve said elsewhere that we’ve played 11 1/2 games since the new year, QPR have played 8. That’s almost 1/3 fewer.

Bloke behind me made an observation near the end of the first half that QPR were making us run around a lot. Not necessarily doing anything constructive, just making us run.

Maybe they recognised the stats and that was part of their game plan? It worked! 

[lotusman]

The only two things I enjoyed on watching a thoroughly depressing performance was that of Max and the silky skills and energy by a couple of the QPR players. I certainly enjoyed Tony Thorpe's  anticipation and excitement for the game, his comments throughout were absolutely spot-on. We are I fear the championships GREAT PRETENDERS.

[NickJ]

If Manning thinks that Dire is a Championship footballer I have no faith in him at all.

[frenchred]

5 hours ago, JP Hampton said:

Personally I think he did recognise at least that they didn’t play well enough. He said forget about tactics, we didn’t get the basics right, but he didn’t appear to have any self awareness of possible poor sub decisions or lack of adaptability in  approach to play. Once again there didn’t seem to be a pan B. Subs also aren’t always automatically the answer. 
 

 He knew how QPR would play he didn’t underestimate them, it just felt like he didn’t change anything, when it was obvious what we were doing wasn’t working. And this has been a criticism of him in other games. 
 

 Mebude Little Boy Lost. 
i think we actually missed Mehmeti after he was subbed, cos he was at least creating something. And to not use Twine but bring on Cornick and Mebude when the thing we were missing was any creativity. 
 

 No one was being brave or taking initiative. I’d struggle to call a MOTM tbh. 

HE didn't get his basics right! Initial team selection and substitutions were inept and clueless