Back him, or Sack him

[Loosey Boy]

Would I back him or sack him now?

Probably have to say “back” for now, only because he’s had less than half-a-season with us but…..if this form continues, seriously think we would need to re-assess at the end of the season.

Having been at the game yesterday, I think it’s fair to say that many City fans I spoke to on the way home are of the opinion that he should go. 

Clearly though, those in charge won’t want to lose face and so even if we finish in the bottom 6 (could easily happen), they will back Liam in the summer with money to spend as they won’t want to be seen to have made the wrong decision.

Hugely disappointing and frustrating times. Not sure where it will all end, either!

Think the next two home games are massive for Manning now.

[Randy Marsh II]

If I'm having to decide right now it's actually sack tbh, based on what I've seen so far. 

The teams gone backwards at quite a rapid pace in the basics. I'd prefer to give him the end of the season, but on the evidence I've seen I'd probably only sack him then anyway to avoid some serious damage being done not to just the start and therefore remaining of next season, but seasons after too. 

If I'm already thinking I'd sack him in the summer anyway, why wait - we do enough of that in this club and on this one I think it's justified to not wait. 

His remit was improve the team and have us fighting for top 6 with the side he currently has. He's clearly, clearly failed before March. Might be best just to move on to the next who can. I'd probably be more lenient if he didn't have a CV like LJ - there's zero historical evidence of Manning being able to accomplish the job at hand. 

[Cityboy1954]

11 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Does anyone really want to watch any more of this for another season? 

We should just do a Sunderland and hold our hands up and say we ****** up, there's a crumb of dignity in that.

If we double down on this to try and save face by giving manning a load of coin ... well that movie won't end well. 

Manning didn't deserve this job. 

But is snake signing them or manning ?

[Sir Geoff]

2 minutes ago, Cityboy1954 said:

But is snake signing them or manning ?

Twine and Mdube clearly  Mannings suggestions.

[Baba Yaga]

Having seen some good and bad from Manning I think he deserves to start next season and see what happens from there.

For me it's never a good time to have this poll after a couple of losses. Interesting there is the same poll on here after the wba boxing day game last season where 56% wanted Pearson to be sacked.

[Natchfever]

2 minutes ago, Baba Yaga said:

Having seen some good and bad from Manning I think he deserves to start next season and see what happens from there.

For me it's never a good time to have this poll after a couple of losses. Interesting there is the same poll on here after the wba boxing day game last season where 56% wanted Pearson to be sacked.

If we finish say 15th would you trust him with whatever money is available for next season if hes a 50-50 to replicate this seasons form? 

Took years to sort the financial mess last time.

Wont happen but I would like him gone end of season along with his boss.

 

[Redstart]

Problem is with this dodgy start it's likely they won't risk financially backing him in the summer 'just in case' - we'll then start the next season with half arsed new signings and I reckon we'll be in the shite and  looking for another new manager before Xmas

[Bazooka Joe]

Haven't read through the thread, but "back, sack and crack him" should be an another option.

Perhaps with tweezers.

Unless there is an immediate improvement, it could be a case of "hair today, gone tomorrow" !

[Gert Mare]

The bloke was on a hiding to nothing due to a ridiculous non footballing decision to sack the previous manager who had made us competitive in most games without any funds to improve and wage constraints.

The most laughable thing I’ve heard was that Nigel Pearson had taken us as far as he could. Really? The bloke took Leicester to the Premier League with actual backing and kept them there with a great escape when they looked dead and buried and basically built the squad which won the Premier League at 5000-1 against odds, but if some want to believe that he had taken Bristol City as far as he could then in my opinion I think that’s a totally deluded view.

We have no choice but to back Manning at the moment. We need to get this season over with and it’s too dangerous to create any further instability at this time.

The ones that should be sacked in my opinion are the ones that made one of the most ludicrous decisions since the dark days of the early 80’s. They also blatantly lied to the supporters about the decision and they made it abundantly clear that success had to happen this season, not next.

If anyone needs to go it isn’t Manning, he’s been sold a lie like the rest of us, but he hasn’t helped by failing to play to our strengths with what he has got at his disposal which is most definitely not top end championship challenging.

There are 2 people that need to die by their swords and that is the Chairman and DoF sidekick. Out of touch with reality, egotistical, toxic and clueless when it comes to taking this club forward.

Edited February 25 by Gert Mare

[lotusman]

The next few games are now loaded with pressure beyond belief. A dismal position at the end of the season should he retain his position would certainly restrict his spending power and represent a lack of confidence from both our two football experts.

In my 60 years of supporting city I find this contrived chaos caused by JL & BT disgusting. Already I fear our focus each week will become looking below us in the table rather than having optimism and looking upwards.

[Baba Yaga]

17 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

If we finish say 15th would you trust him with whatever money is available for next season if hes a 50-50 to replicate this seasons form? 

Took years to sort the financial mess last time.

Wont happen but I would like him gone end of season along with his boss.

 

I suppose the transfers are going to be the decision of a committee with Tins having a big input no matter who the head coach is, hopefully they don't end up finger pointing when things go wrong and we end up with several crap players on 3 year deals. I don't especially trust that things are going to get better to be honest, not a great outlook but I am satisfied with Manning enough to give him a fair opportunity if we finished around 15th.

Can understand those who would say why bother wasting a year or more on Manning when he isn't obviously looking like taking us up the table but for me you should look to give a manager a cycle of a few years where possible, hate it when clubs change manager every year and don't think it works well in the long term usually.

[Waffleflap]

I just can't warm to him. All the waffle and bullshit in his interviews. Nice bloke but not for me . Tinnion out n all. It'll never happen while numpty and dumpty run the club unfortunately 

[RobImps]

I think he's well & truly out of his depth and the sooner he's gone, the better.

He has achieved nothing in mens football, and was dismissed from MK Dons after a huge drop in form - the given reason is they sold Twine and didn't replace - this for me has huge alarm bells ringing... We are a club that bases our business model on selling big & reinvesting cheaper.

Manning's CV is - sold, couldn't replace and got sacked! 

Yesterday was my 10th away game of the season, I'm also a season ticket holder. The absolute s***show I saw yesterday is still infuriating me now!!

Those players were arguing amongst themselves, looked very poorly coached and our fitness levels have dropped massively - they are not as fit as they were under Nige - just maybe he knew what he was doing with giving them regular breaks from training

I would also say the body language of those players indicated they aren't playing for him, or at the least have no confidence in him.

For me, I'd replace him today and offer it to King for remainder of season.

And it goes without saying that Tinnion needs dropping back to academy and we find a proper DofF.

[Alex_BCFC]

Way way way too early for a sacking. No idea why this is even a question. You can see a lot of good things especially when we play better sides but clearly the results against the poorer sides are a concern.

Still very early doors for him - if we were 10 games into next season and we were still as inconsistent then I think we'd probably be fair in asking the question.

Ultimately the board have said we have a top 6 squad (when we don't). If they provide a top 6 squad then you could rightly ask why we weren't top 6. We are mid-table as they come and that is reflected in the squad.

Personally I don't really like the bloke as it sounds like I'm listening to an AI robot or something and I preferred Nige (and could see what he was building). But yeh far too early.

[kit]

I would have thought the aim of the board/owners is to get promotion. The problem with the way that manning wants to play football is that you need probably need a minumum of two midfielders with massive quality in creativity and attacking play, and probably two forwards that can actually beat a man and run at players and take on shots and finish.

All that will probably cost in excess of 20m in transfer fees alone, probably more. The likes of leicester leeds and southampton can play that way and be succesful in this division because they either already have these players or can afford to purchase them because they have the short term budget afforded to them to do so.

Furthermore to then have any hope of staying up playing possession football in the prem you'd probably need to sign 11 players at 20m a pop or face coming straight back down with hardly any points just like burnley. It just doesn't seem like the man or formula to take us where we want to go with the situation and status we find ourselves in.

At best I can see us spunking a relative amount of money on mediocre players to get us to an average finish and be stuck where we are, at worst we will continue the current trajectory and end up going down with a whimper next season.

Manning in the main has served up a one dimensional turgid crap brand of football.

I'm in the get rid camp, but not quite at the point where I feel the situation has got ridiculous and he just has to go. If we sleepwalk ourselves into a relgation scrap or if given a full pre season and a number of new signings and we still look and play how we are currently after 5 games or so then I'll be firmly shouting for him to go.

I think he is out of his depth and one dimensional and taking us backwards, there is an ounce of hope that maybe he can turn us around with a couple of astute signings but that is hope more than expectation and not based on much evidence of what has served up for most of his time here so far.

[Nogbad the Bad]

17 hours ago, kit said:

I would have thought the aim of the board/owners is to get promotion. The problem with the way that manning wants to play football is that you need probably need a minumum of two midfielders with massive quality in creativity and attacking play, and probably two forwards that can actually beat a man and run at players and take on shots and finish.

All that will probably cost in excess of 20m in transfer fees alone, probably more. The likes of leicester leeds and southampton can play that way and be succesful in this division because they either already have these players or can afford to purchase them because they have the short term budget afforded to them to do so.

Furthermore to then have any hope of staying up playing possession football in the prem you'd probably need to sign 11 players at 20m a pop or face coming straight back down with hardly any points just like burnley. It just doesn't seem like the man or formula to take us where we want to go with the situation and status we find ourselves in.

At best I can see us spunking a relative amount of money on mediocre players to get us to an average finish and be stuck where we are, at worst we will continue the current trajectory and end up going down with a whimper next season.

Manning in the main has served up a one dimensional turgid crap brand of football.

I'm in the get rid camp, but not quite at the point where I feel the situation has got ridiculous and he just has to go. If we sleepwalk ourselves into a relgation scrap or if given a full pre season and a number of new signings and we still look and play how we are currently after 5 games or so then I'll be firmly shouting for him to go.

I think he is out of his depth and one dimensional and taking us backwards, there is an ounce of hope that maybe he can turn us around with a couple of astute signings but that is hope more than expectation and not based on much evidence of what has served up for most of his time here so far.

Sorry, I know you're just articulating your thoughts but if you think, 'Manning in the main has served up a one dimensional turgid crap brand of football.' and 'I think he is out of his depth and one dimensional and taking us backwards' why would you give him the pre season and a number of new signings when he - his uninspiring personality, and, as you say, his turgid style of football - seem to be at the root of the problem?

These things seem very much ingrained and unlikely to change and, if we allow LM to shape next season's squad we'll have lumbered the next coach/manager with new signings he may not want with little or no more money to make further changes, and it's another frustrating and wasted season ahead.

I cannot see things improving significantly, some managers fit AG, some very much don't, and the board need to be decisive and ruthless for once, whether it's soon or at the end of the season.

Oh, I forgot, they were pretty ruthless with Cotts and NP.

[Redandproud]

On 25/02/2024 at 13:45, Waffleflap said:

I just can't warm to him. All the waffle and bullshit in his interviews. Nice bloke but not for me . Tinnion out n all. It'll never happen while numpty and dumpty run the club unfortunately 

Yep,same here, inexperienced manager, The Championship is a step too far for him, but JL is not listening to the fans, 

[JP Hampton]

It’s tricky,  do you give him more time, which seems reasonable and fair. We don’t tend to do knee jerk sackings and on the whole give managers time, so why should he be any different

or  

Risk him taking us into next season with the possibility of realising (10 games or so in) it’s not working and potentially have to write off yet another season?

[Frenchay Red]

12 minutes ago, Redandproud said:

 JL is not listening to the fans, 

Too busy listening to 

[spudski]

If you sacked Manning, I wouldn't trust those in charge to put anything better in charge. 

Sooner JL and BT have no decision in who's coach, the better imo. 

That ain't gonna happen any time soon, so it's gonna be the same as we've had for years. 

[BCFCGav]

On 25/02/2024 at 13:09, Gert Mare said:

The bloke was on a hiding to nothing due to a ridiculous non footballing decision to sack the previous manager who had made us competitive in most games without any funds to improve and wage constraints.

The most laughable thing I’ve heard was that Nigel Pearson had taken us as far as he could. Really? The bloke took Leicester to the Premier League with actual backing and kept them there with a great escape when they looked dead and buried and basically built the squad which won the Premier League at 5000-1 against odds, but if some want to believe that he had taken Bristol City as far as he could then in my opinion I think that’s a totally deluded view.

We have no choice but to back Manning at the moment. We need to get this season over with and it’s too dangerous to create any further instability at this time.

The ones that should be sacked in my opinion are the ones that made one of the most ludicrous decisions since the dark days of the early 80’s. They also blatantly lied to the supporters about the decision and they made it abundantly clear that success had to happen this season, not next.

If anyone needs to go it isn’t Manning, he’s been sold a lie like the rest of us, but he hasn’t helped by failing to play to our strengths with what he has got at his disposal which is most definitely not top end championship challenging.

There are 2 people that need to die by their swords and that is the Chairman and DoF sidekick. Out of touch with reality, egotistical, toxic and clueless when it comes to taking this club forward.

Love this post.

[DaveInSA]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

If you sacked Manning, I wouldn't trust those in charge to put anything better in charge. 

Sooner JL and BT have no decision in who's coach, the better imo. 

That ain't gonna happen any time soon, so it's gonna be the same as we've had for years. 

Which is all the more irritating. We had a golden opportunity to build on some solid foundations.

And then in true Lansdown style, we then go about blasting those carefully built foundations to pieces. And not in a targeted way. It was done with a scatter-bomb taking everything out within 3 miles of Ashton Gate.

We’ll then try and build a new shiny palace, on quicksand, with unqualified builders, no project plan, no engineer, no architect and no quantity surveyors.

They’re an absolute joke. I want them out of our club and somebody who actually knows how to run a football club at the helm.

[Loderingo]

I don't see the point in changing again now when we have nothing to play for (and realistically you would be looking at a caretaker anyway).  I would suggest reassessing in May.

It won't happen though as it would make the board look bad.  So they will double down and give him money in the summer.

[Loderingo]

BTW - I think the poll options should have been split further:

Back - I'm confident he is the right man for the job

Back - I'm not convinced but don't think it is the right time for a change

Sack

[BrizzleRed]

I just couldn’t vote on this poll, as if Manning was sacked, it would be Dumb and Dumber doing the recruitment, so who could have any confidence they’d make the right choice in getting in a replacement?

My really big issue with Manning is he appears to be a one trick pony, who can only contemplate and work with one playing style.  To compound that, he seems incapable of adapting our tactics during a match and if our opposition change their gameplan, he doesn’t seem able to respond to counter them.

The only time we’ve looked really threatening under him is when we’ve moved back to a counter attacking game through necessity, but that clearly isn’t his chosen style.  Even if he got the players to suit his chosen possession based style, I can imagine plenty of opposition managers outgunning him tactically.

I just can’t see any indications that he could organise a team to dominate the opposition and actually hurt them.  It’s ok making umpteen square passes, but you’ve eventually got to do something positive and I can’t see any signs of him knowing how to make that happen.

I just feel totally underwhelmed by him and dread the thought of us starting next season with him and seeing yet another season going down the crapper.  The only way I see him getting us out of this division is through the relegation trap door tbh.

[FNQ]

8 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

I just couldn’t vote on this poll, as if Manning was sacked, it would be Dumb and Dumber doing the recruitment, so who could have any confidence they’d make the right choice in getting in a replacement?

My really big issue with Manning is he appears to be a one trick pony, who can only contemplate and work with one playing style.  To compound that, he seems incapable of adapting our tactics during a match and if our opposition change their gameplan, he doesn’t seem able to respond to counter them.

The only time we’ve looked really threatening under him is when we’ve moved back to a counter attacking game through necessity, but that clearly isn’t his chosen style.  Even if he got the players to suit his chosen possession based style, I can imagine plenty of opposition managers outgunning him tactically.

I just can’t see any indications that he could organise a team to dominate the opposition and actually hurt them.  It’s ok making umpteen square passes, but you’ve eventually got to do something positive and I can’t see any signs of him knowing how to make that happen.

I just feel totally underwhelmed by him and dread the thought of us starting next season with him and seeing yet another season going down the crapper.  The only way I see him getting us out of this division is through the relegation trap door tbh.

Sorry, reading your comments above I'm struggling to see why you just couldn't vote on this poll? 

[Tinmans Love Child]

11 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

I just couldn’t vote on this poll, as if Manning was sacked, it would be Dumb and Dumber doing the recruitment, so who could have any confidence they’d make the right choice in getting in a replacement?

My really big issue with Manning is he appears to be a one trick pony, who can only contemplate and work with one playing style.  To compound that, he seems incapable of adapting our tactics during a match and if our opposition change their gameplan, he doesn’t seem able to respond to counter them.

The only time we’ve looked really threatening under him is when we’ve moved back to a counter attacking game through necessity, but that clearly isn’t his chosen style.  Even if he got the players to suit his chosen possession based style, I can imagine plenty of opposition managers outgunning him tactically.

I just can’t see any indications that he could organise a team to dominate the opposition and actually hurt them.  It’s ok making umpteen square passes, but you’ve eventually got to do something positive and I can’t see any signs of him knowing how to make that happen.

I just feel totally underwhelmed by him and dread the thought of us starting next season with him and seeing yet another season going down the crapper.  The only way I see him getting us out of this division is through the relegation trap door tbh.

Just vote FYI I'm pretty sure this poll wasnt set up by JL!

[bcfcnick]

It was such a destructive decision to remove Nigel and his team.  There seemed such a real feel-good factor throughout the Club that connected with the supporters.  Pearson was doing exactly what was needed - reducing the wage bill, bringing on young players (two of which were sold for £30m), improving countless other young players, creating a good team spirit and above all fully embracing that approach when so many other members would have been demanding the hierarchy made funds available.

I never heard Nigel whinge once about lack of funds and he was cautious in the transfer market as if it was his own money.  He built a great squad spirit and was very mindful of bringing in any bad eggs that might spoil it.  Despite this approach, we were competitive with hopes of building on solid foundations towards the playoffs.  We were plagued by injuries hence with just one centre back and nobody was surprised or blamed Nige for a couple of defeats. 

I know he wasn't a well man but the sensible thing would have been to keep the coaching and management team together and let Nigel mentor Andy King and give NP access to some of the 'nest egg' funds.  Given the health issues there didn't have to be a new three-year contract but a one-year rolling contract made sense with Pearson in a mentoring role for King allowing continuity of all the good work throughout the Club.

I don't think the hierarchy understood that the £30m pocketed in transfer fees was in no small way due to Pearson and his team.  He brought the best out of both Scott and Semenyo.  He was doing likewise with Conway, Vyner, Sykes and Pring as well.  I doubt if they will contribute to a very big 'nest egg' now.  I was just as disappointed to see Fleming leave (we had a real gem there) and he's been replaced by 'Hoggy' and a man with a notebook and beard.  

The problem now is the deed is done.  I think most fans just want a restoration of how it was rather than a merry-go-round of throwing a few darts to get a new manager.  The previous team was rare in uniting the fans who could see the building process and were happy to give plenty of patience. So unless  (pigs might fly) JL and BT were to put their hands up and say sorry we got it horribly wrong and bring back Pearson & Fleming tasked with mentoring Andy King then we are stuck with a management team that doesn't inspire trying to impose an over-thinking approach on a group of players it isn't suited to. 

They wouldn't come back either unless there was new ownership. So we are left with much poorer options. When Liam was a contender there was an excellent post by Harry who said he was an up-and-coming coach but our squad wasn't suited to his preferred style of play.  His style of play wasn't the front foot, attacking football that Tins depicted as the new approach.  His philosophy is to build (very slowly it appears) from defence. To be honest I am not sure what his philosophy is aside from one up front and three at the back and a bit of chopping and changing in between aside from sticking with an under-performing Mehmeti.

So, without the ability to turn back the clock, I am not sure what the solution is now. I don't see Manning being sacked but there will be a close eye on whether the players are playing for him.  They may well be trying their best but are utterly confused by too many instructions and switching of roles.  It's an odd one that they have proved their capabilities against both premier league and high-up Championship teams. 

I think both King and Naismith will make excellent managers in future years.   It would be a gamble, as are all managerial choices, but King might prove to be an inspirational choice. He's definitely switched on, has excellent man-management skills, has been endorsed by Nigel as a future manager and would probably bring out the best in the players.  He'd need an experienced hand alongside him though.  I think he hopes to play a couple more years and no doubt Naismith does as well. Realistically, It's just not going to happen. As it stands, I think all fans can hope for is that it works out with Liam Manning - it won't be from lack of effort or (over) thinking from him - or new owners come along. Steve Lansdown has lost all interest in the football side of things for a long time now so it really is time for him to sell.

 

 

[westonred]

I dont think Manning is the answer he looked a beaten and clueless man after the game on Sat. Personally i cant see us getting many points from our next 5 games (i hope i'm wrong) but tricky away games at Ipswich and WBA with 2 local Debys against the Welsh (which we always bottle) and a game against Leicester.  if we lose all of those i think he would have to go, it feels like a Holden appointment at the moment.  

[Bob Turnip]

On 24/02/2024 at 21:35, Mendip City said:

he took the job… the remit (however deluded) was clear… get this top-end championship squad performing like a top-end championship squad. If he thought that wasn’t achievable he shouldn’t have taken the role.

 

Sorry for late reply, but how do you know this was the remit? Were you in the room with them when he was told this during the recruitment process? Just because JL and BT fed us fans a load of tripe, doesn't mean they said the same to LM.