Eco Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Do you apply the same rule in football then? Don't understand why someone born and brought up in Zimbabwe with hardly an English bone in him wouldn't want to play inernational sport for his home country. After all playing for your country is apparently the pinnacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Don't understand why someone born and brought up in Zimbabwe with hardly an English bone in him wouldn't want to play inernational sport for his home country. After all playing for your country is apparently the pinnacle. Have you seen the state of Zimbabwean cricket? Or indeed, Zimbabwe itself? Ballance has been here since he was 16, he is a product of the English cricket system. If he feels English enough to play for our team then how is anyone to question that if it's within the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Have you seen the state of Zimbabwean cricket? Or indeed, Zimbabwe itself? Ballance has been here since he was 16, he is a product of the English cricket system. If he feels English enough to play for our team then how is anyone to question that if it's within the rules? No doubt he feels gratitude to the ECB for bringing him into the England set up & financially he'll have done very well out of it, which is what a professional sportsman is in it for. Doubt if many are taken in by all this rubbish about 'feeling English' and just because it's 'in the rules' doesn't make it morally right. As for coming through the English system he seems to have followed the usual route to the top in English cricket being an old Harrovian. He's done well so far but I can find little enthusiasm for him Robson, Jordan etc etc etc Just my opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolskRed Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Don't understand why someone born and brought up in Zimbabwe with hardly an English bone in him wouldn't want to play inernational sport for his home country. After all playing for your country is apparently the pinnacle. I haven't checked but from England U'16 all the way up to the senior team in football I guess there are many players you could apply this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 No doubt he feels gratitude to the ECB for bringing him into the England set up & financially he'll have done very well out of it, which is what a professional sportsman is in it for. Doubt if many are taken in by all this rubbish about 'feeling English' and just because it's 'in the rules' doesn't make it morally right. As for coming through the English system he seems to have followed the usual route to the top in English cricket being an old Harrovian. He's done well so far but I can find little enthusiasm for him Robson, Jordan etc etc etc Just my opinion of course. I think it's a fair stretch to describe it as a moral issue. Who are we to question where people's allegiance should or does lie? What isn't right is that full test playing sides are allowed to pinch players from associate nations. Several Irish players for England, Dirk Nannes for the Aussies, I'm sure there are others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 No doubt he feels gratitude to the ECB for bringing him into the England set up & financially he'll have done very well out of it, which is what a professional sportsman is in it for. Doubt if many are taken in by all this rubbish about 'feeling English' and just because it's 'in the rules' doesn't make it morally right. As for coming through the English system he seems to have followed the usual route to the top in English cricket being an old Harrovian. He's done well so far but I can find little enthusiasm for him Robson, Jordan etc etc etc Just my opinion of course. An opinion you are more than welcome to have. I do get where you're coming from, but I just don't feel we can second guess how someone feels about playing for a particular nation. I do agree that it would be a lot more simple if the rules were as you wished them to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I think it's a fair stretch to describe it as a moral issue. Who are we to question where people's allegiance should or does lie? What isn't right is that full test playing sides are allowed to pinch players from associate nations. Several Irish players for England, Dirk Nannes for the Aussies, I'm sure there are others.Nannes is actually Australian with Dutch ancestry, he just got tired waiting for a call from the Oz selectors so went and played for The Netherlands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Nannes is actually Australian with Dutch ancestry, he just got tired waiting for a call from the Oz selectors so went and played for The Netherlands That's a fair point. Perhaps he would have never played for the Netherlands if he'd then be ineligible for the Aussies. Meanwhile, Plunkett in pitching it up and getting wickets shocker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 This is what test cricket is about. Not that disgrace of a pitch at Trent Bridge. Could go either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperor Palpatine Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 That's a fair point. Perhaps he would have never played for the Netherlands if he'd then be ineligible for the Aussies. Meanwhile, Plunkett in pitching it up and getting wickets shocker... Nannes could've still played for the Aussies I assume, as Morgan and Rankin played for Ireland and then switched to England plus he did make 1 appearance for Australia. Maybe the selectors just simply don't think he is good enough, no idea but he only seems to be playing T20 cricket. He does seem a mercenary type in it for the cash which is fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Nannes could've still played for the Aussies I assume, as Morgan and Rankin played for Ireland and then switched to England plus he did make 1 appearance for Australia. Maybe the selectors just simply don't think he is good enough, no idea but he only seems to be playing T20 cricket. He does seem a mercenary type in it for the cash which is fair enough. I think there has to be a period in between as I seem to remember that Ed Joyce had permission to go to the World Cup with Ireland before this period of time had passed. Personally I think it's only fair that the associate team gets its players back when the test side has played and dumped them. Nannes could have gone back to the Netherlands after the Aussies stopped picking him but presumably he can earn more playing IPL, Big Bash etc. As you say, it's fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Am I actually crazy in thinking England still have a chance here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Am I actually crazy in thinking England still have a chance here? You said it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Am I actually crazy in thinking England still have a chance here? If it's sunny tomorrow it could go very flat. Having said that India have just bowled better than us, the people who've lost us this test (if we do lose) are Jimmy and Broad who've bowled too short all game. Is it time to look at Saker and say time to be replaced? Hardly a good run with bowlers since he's been around - Fjnn has been ruined, whatever they did to JOverton over the winter wasn't helpful... And if he's paid to coach the bowlers then he needs to be making them bowler fuller and making the batsmen play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 The Sky pundits were tearing into Cooks captaincy this afternoon. Must say I am getting a little tired of the negative tactics and his loss of form with the bat is really not helping matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 But in this test he's been positive with fielding tactics...It's just his bowlers have been shite and that's something he can't control. I don't see we have a replacement either. Bell doesn't want it, Prior isn't going to see the year out before Jos comes in.. Broad is well... broad so who do you go for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne allisons tongues Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 If stokes is in the side as an all rounder then his run of scores this year is awful. Think last 5 test he's averaging 2, think selectors don't know what they want from this team. They need to come out and say team like this all series so your places are safe, instead of playing in fear of being dropped. Team is looking lost, bowlers to bowl the way they are must be under instruction to bowl like that. Is that the captains fault or team manager, something isn't right at the moment behind the scenes and think its showing in the teams performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 The bowling IMO comes under the control of the bowling coach/head coach. Likewise has our batting got any better since we got rid of Gooch? I'd say its got slightly worse.. even Ian Bell can't buy a run at the moment and he's been carrying us for the past two years at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 If it's sunny tomorrow it could go very flat. Having said that India have just bowled better than us, the people who've lost us this test (if we do lose) are Jimmy and Broad who've bowled too short all game. Is it time to look at Saker and say time to be replaced? Hardly a good run with bowlers since he's been around - Fjnn has been ruined, whatever they did to JOverton over the winter wasn't helpful... And if he's paid to coach the bowlers then he needs to be making them bowler fuller and making the batsmen play It's nothing new. Jimmy had to go back to Lancs for a few years to sort himself out and get back to his old action after England tried to mess about with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 It's nothing new. Jimmy had to go back to Lancs for a few years to sort himself out and get back to his old action after England tried to mess about with it. looking at where all the english bowlers bowled you have to say that they were instructed to bowl short Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Vaughan has just come out and said Cook should go and Eoin Morgan should take over. Dear. God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Vaughan has just come out and said Cook should go and Eoin Morgan should take over. Dear. God. Greaat player but I don't listen to him as a pundit he talks too much shit, Must say I tend to listen to Gower, Holdin and Athers they normally hit the nail on the head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 It's the whole Warne/Piers/KP clique that Vaughan goes along with. Wish they'd all just do one. Morgan isn't even in the side and he's been shite for Middlesex generally in LVCC this year. Back on the game.. I'd imagine India will be getting a little twitchy with this partnership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 It's the whole Warne/Piers/KP clique that Vaughan goes along with. Wish they'd all just do one. Morgan isn't even in the side and he's been shite for Middlesex generally in LVCC this year. Back on the game.. I'd imagine India will be getting a little twitchy with this partnership. I've liked Morgans captancy of the limited overs game but like Luke Wright he just isn't a test cricketer, England are lacking in 4 key departments, a captain, a Number 4 batsman (bell has got away with it) and a wicket keeper, Lack of forsight from the ECB has put the side in this postion, All riding high when we were the best test playing nation but no forward planning has put us on par with New Zeland and Bangladesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I see Extras has out scored our top order again, time to promote it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 New ball will decide this game IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 That's a killer right on lunch. Still a chance though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 England desperately need a Graeme Smith type character. A young aggressive and assertive bloke to take the team forward. I'm at a loss to suggest who that might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 New ball will decide this game IMO Now Ali is out I can only see one result Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 New ball will decide this game IMO Up until Sharma took that wicket though, I thought India might delay taking the new ball for as long as possible- it's not likely to help the spinners at all. However, that last wicket just shows it's going to be the seamers that'll win it for India Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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