Interesting Reading...

[Eddie Hitler]

2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Some of the players on that leaked salary list didn't even play for us! Why would that document ever have been created citing players who were employed at other clubs at the time?

Budget for the season.  You add in likely signings to see what the total looks like and whether you are happy that it's enough players to turn out a decent team every game.

Then you discuss that total with the money men.

[Super]

26 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

If I was @djb6162 and this genuinely IS his doing, what's the point? Wes was (allegedly) Fleetwood's record signing, they're in the auto spots to replace us and Wes is presumably appreciated and getting regular game time there. Why would you bother? 

Only played a few games either out of favour or injured.

[Phileas Fogg]

5 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Some of the players on that leaked salary list didn't even play for us! Why would that document ever have been created citing players who were employed at other clubs at the time?

It reminded me of when I've played football manager.. I'd get really into it and draw up an excel spreadsheet of my squad for the season (3 go, 10 def, 10 mid, 5 forwards) and add potential signings.. it was all very exciting.. and unfortunately I think something similar has happened here.

[steviestevieneville]

13 hours ago, MarkRed! said:

Whether this is true or not the fact is that all is not well at BCFC and this explains why we have plummeted. Were not stupid and whilst some shite has been posted, clearly there is no smoke without fire. The following is now very clear:

 

1. LJ wanted Pembo out for next season and approached Ashton. A decision was made to get rid now - that confirms to me that LJ aint going nowhere as why would they bow to his request if he was about to be sacked. Most here would have had Pembo as the caretaker.

2. The notion that LJ was simply agreeing with the board's decision to change the structure by getting rid of Pembo is bollocks. It would appear from Ashton's interview that he instigated it. The question which is unanswered is why did he want Pembo out? Maybe the players were allied to him?

3. Des Taylor has not been sacked. He has gone to Liverpool. Thus, why suggest that we are making the change. Again more bollocks.

4. I don't care what is said but having watched the team a lot it is clear that particular players are not playing for Johnson and this is evidenced by them disappearing from the team.

5. Before he went to Aberdeen, Wes signed a new contract if I recall. Within months he was sold. Makes no sense. I thought it was odd at the time but now we have an insight into why.

6. LJ is a conniving little shit but would he really use his father to criticise the players. If he did, I would fcking chin him.

7.  Elliot, Ayling, Agard, O'Donnell, Williams, Freeman, Wagstaff were all discarded by Johnson... there must be a reason for this and plainly he has rooted out the core of the League One double winners. He has his favourite players though, Flint, Smith and Bryan.

8. Players coming out supporting the manager is just bollocks PR but it shows what kind of culture is being developed behind the scenes.

LJ is a complete and utter fraud and It just makes me sad that a club with so much potential is run in this way. Obviously, Mr Hargreaves rather than SL was the brains behind that business given the way City and the Rugby team are being managed.  It really is mickey mouse. Unfortunately for LJ it will eventually all end in tears. That is the Bristol city way... at that point, there wont be many shedding any tears for him.... he will have also made himself unemployable......

But what state will the club be in by the time he goes 

[steviestevieneville]

13 hours ago, MarkRed! said:

Whether this is true or not the fact is that all is not well at BCFC and this explains why we have plummeted. Were not stupid and whilst some shite has been posted, clearly there is no smoke without fire. The following is now very clear:

 

1. LJ wanted Pembo out for next season and approached Ashton. A decision was made to get rid now - that confirms to me that LJ aint going nowhere as why would they bow to his request if he was about to be sacked. Most here would have had Pembo as the caretaker.

2. The notion that LJ was simply agreeing with the board's decision to change the structure by getting rid of Pembo is bollocks. It would appear from Ashton's interview that he instigated it. The question which is unanswered is why did he want Pembo out? Maybe the players were allied to him?

3. Des Taylor has not been sacked. He has gone to Liverpool. Thus, why suggest that we are making the change. Again more bollocks.

4. I don't care what is said but having watched the team a lot it is clear that particular players are not playing for Johnson and this is evidenced by them disappearing from the team.

5. Before he went to Aberdeen, Wes signed a new contract if I recall. Within months he was sold. Makes no sense. I thought it was odd at the time but now we have an insight into why.

6. LJ is a conniving little shit but would he really use his father to criticise the players. If he did, I would fcking chin him.

7.  Elliot, Ayling, Agard, O'Donnell, Williams, Freeman, Wagstaff were all discarded by Johnson... there must be a reason for this and plainly he has rooted out the core of the League One double winners. He has his favourite players though, Flint, Smith and Bryan.

8. Players coming out supporting the manager is just bollocks PR but it shows what kind of culture is being developed behind the scenes.

LJ is a complete and utter fraud and It just makes me sad that a club with so much potential is run in this way. Obviously, Mr Hargreaves rather than SL was the brains behind that business given the way City and the Rugby team are being managed.  It really is mickey mouse. Unfortunately for LJ it will eventually all end in tears. That is the Bristol city way... at that point, there wont be many shedding any tears for him.... he will have also made himself unemployable......

But what state will the club be in by the time he goes 

[Red-Robbo]

28 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Papers for a budgeting meeting?  The listing makes sense if you're trying to shape one of your major costs for the year and then see how the projections in terms of games played stand up to scrutiny.  In my companies (as an employee) other cost elements are much more signfiicant than salaries so they're the ones that will get printed out, analysed and reviewed.  In football it's player salaries.  I've worked at companies where certain potentially difficult meetings are held in a neutral venue, such as a coffee house, to take the tension out of the meeting and allow more relaxed and open discussion and I will often bring paperwork.

It's unprofessional certainly to do this with salary data as most organisations are very careful with their confidential data; I would have anonymised it to be on the safe side.

I saw the list at the time but, bar some Championship Manager experience, I wasn't in a position to assess how reasonable it was.  It didn't look wildly off is the best that I can say.

But a budgeting meeting without other items of expenditure: just the players' salaries? 

And including "weekly wages" of players at outside clubs?

And quoted as a weekly amount, not monthly, quarterly or yearly,  which would surely be more normal in such circumstances? 

* chinny reckon*

[Hampshire reds]

I don't like the idea of daddy Gary getting involved the sooner Steve wakes up and gets Lee out of the club the better.

[Eddie Hitler]

2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

But a budgeting meeting without other items of expenditure: just the players' salaries? 

And including "weekly wages" of players at outside clubs?

And quoted as a weekly amount, not monthly, quarterly or yearly,  which would surely be more normal in such circumstances? 

* chinny reckon*

Ah, I was going from memory and assuming annual.  Though in player salary terms this may well be converted into a weekly figure for convenience.

Certainly you would have the meeting with just one item of expenditure if that was the dominant and varaible one.  There is only one area of expenidture at my co. that is big, contentious, and highly variable with all the others pretty much pootling along.  So that one big area is the main determinant of your bottom line result each year and there are several, sometimes many, meetings purely upon that one area.

For us, once that one has been agreed, we're basically done. The odd 1% / 2% on the other areas is just noise.

[steviestevieneville]

13 hours ago, MarkRed! said:

Whether this is true or not the fact is that all is not well at BCFC and this explains why we have plummeted. Were not stupid and whilst some shite has been posted, clearly there is no smoke without fire. The following is now very clear:

 

1. LJ wanted Pembo out for next season and approached Ashton. A decision was made to get rid now - that confirms to me that LJ aint going nowhere as why would they bow to his request if he was about to be sacked. Most here would have had Pembo as the caretaker.

2. The notion that LJ was simply agreeing with the board's decision to change the structure by getting rid of Pembo is bollocks. It would appear from Ashton's interview that he instigated it. The question which is unanswered is why did he want Pembo out? Maybe the players were allied to him?

3. Des Taylor has not been sacked. He has gone to Liverpool. Thus, why suggest that we are making the change. Again more bollocks.

4. I don't care what is said but having watched the team a lot it is clear that particular players are not playing for Johnson and this is evidenced by them disappearing from the team.

5. Before he went to Aberdeen, Wes signed a new contract if I recall. Within months he was sold. Makes no sense. I thought it was odd at the time but now we have an insight into why.

6. LJ is a conniving little shit but would he really use his father to criticise the players. If he did, I would fcking chin him.

7.  Elliot, Ayling, Agard, O'Donnell, Williams, Freeman, Wagstaff were all discarded by Johnson... there must be a reason for this and plainly he has rooted out the core of the League One double winners. He has his favourite players though, Flint, Smith and Bryan.

8. Players coming out supporting the manager is just bollocks PR but it shows what kind of culture is being developed behind the scenes.

LJ is a complete and utter fraud and It just makes me sad that a club with so much potential is run in this way. Obviously, Mr Hargreaves rather than SL was the brains behind that business given the way City and the Rugby team are being managed.  It really is mickey mouse. Unfortunately for LJ it will eventually all end in tears. That is the Bristol city way... at that point, there wont be many shedding any tears for him.... he will have also made himself unemployable......

But what state will the club be in by the time he goes 

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Ah, I was going from memory and assuming annual.  Though in player salary terms this may well be converted into a weekly figure for convenience.

Certainly you would have the meeting with just one item of expenditure if that was the dominant and varaible one.  There is only one area of expenidture at my co. that is big, contentious, and highly variable with all the others pretty much pootling along.  So that one big area is the main determinant of your bottom line result each year and there are several, sometimes many, meetings purely upon that one area.

For us, once that one has been agreed, we're basically done. The odd 1% / 2% on the other areas is just noise.

Doesn't explain why non-BCFC players were on there.

Does everyone in football know everyone else's salaries? 

[Kid in the Riot]

Are people seriously suggesting that someone went to the trouble of fabricating all of that in an attempt to imitate Wes Burns' Dad?

Hilarious.

The Lansdown's must feel blessed to have such a stupid fan base supporting their club.

[BRISTOL86]

26 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Budget for the season.  You add in likely signings to see what the total looks like and whether you are happy that it's enough players to turn out a decent team every game.

Then you discuss that total with the money men.

 

23 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It reminded me of when I've played football manager.. I'd get really into it and draw up an excel spreadsheet of my squad for the season (3 go, 10 def, 10 mid, 5 forwards) and add potential signings.. it was all very exciting.. and unfortunately I think something similar has happened here.

If that really is a legitimate document then they all want a good kick up the arse. I've literally run Football Manager games more seriously  

[Bristol Rob]

Can someone tell me when Bristol Sport changed the name of the team to Harchester United?

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Papers for a budgeting meeting?  The listing makes sense if you're trying to shape one of your major costs for the year and then see how the projections in terms of games played stand up to scrutiny.  In my companies (as an employee) other cost elements are much more signfiicant than salaries so they're the ones that will get printed out, analysed and reviewed.  In football it's player salaries.  I've worked at companies where certain potentially difficult meetings are held in a neutral venue, such as a coffee house, to take the tension out of the meeting and allow more relaxed and open discussion and I will often bring paperwork.

It's unprofessional certainly to do this with salary data as most organisations are very careful with their confidential data; I would have anonymised it to be on the safe side.

I saw the list at the time but, bar some Championship Manager experience, I wasn't in a position to assess how reasonable it was.  It didn't look wildly off is the best that I can say.

Let's assume this thing is basically quite accurate, as lots of people seem to. So I will go with all that.

It would mean a MAJOR slashing of the wage bill from last season. A major one. As the football wage bill last season- and I appreciate Odemwingie and Baker had gone- was  roughly £13.5m, maybe £13.6m- how can it fall to that? Associated costs as per last years accounts were about £2m.

Should a possible question therefore not be why was the wage bill slashed? As that if true amounts to a slashing of the wage bill (distribution of football to non football staff is not broken down in 15-16 accounts so is impossible to fully judge that side of it).

http://www.bcfc.co.uk/documents/bcfc-2016-final-accounts213-3502696.pdf

[Eddie Hitler]

7 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

 

If that really is a legitimate document then they all want a good kick up the arse. I've literally run Football Manager games more seriously  

I confess I used to....  all player values and salaries documented at the start of each season etc.

I don't know about City (although I did apply for a finance job ?ten years ago to try to sort it out) but I heard Karen Brady speak about how Birmingham City finances were run when she took over.  Absolute shambles, one player was being paid twice and another not at all because they had similar names.

[Mr Hankey]

13 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Are people seriously suggesting that someone went to the trouble of fabricating all of that in an attempt to imitate Wes Burns' Dad?

Hilarious.

The Lansdown's must feel blessed to have such a stupid fan base supporting their club.

Some people don't want to believe the way the club is being run, the same people that claim it could be worse without Lansdown such as a Vincent Tan or some other "dictator" in charge.......yet it seems like that is exactly what we have, a dictator. I get people questioning certain things when people come out with "itk" stuff, but as other aspects of that post have been specualted months ago, i dont think there's much to deny. Sounds pretty spot on to what we have all thought for a while.

[BRISTOL86]

3 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

I confess I used to....  all player values and salaries documented at the start of each season etc.

I don't know about City (although I did apply for a finance job ?ten years ago to try to sort it out) but I heard Karen Brady speak about how Birmingham City finances were run when she took over.  Absolute shambles, one player was being paid twice and another not at all because they had similar names.

Must be a BCFC thing!!

[exAtyeoMax]

2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

But if the players concerned were Wes Burns, would he be a guy we want to retain anyway?  More than happy with Tammy,  Djuric and Taylor. 

Didn't Hartley go because his wife wanted to return to Scotland? 

I really mean the part where GJ didn't play him

[Eddie Hitler]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Let's assume this thing is basically quite accurate, as lots of people seem to. So I will go with all that.

It would mean a MAJOR slashing of the wage bill from last season. A major one. As the football wage bill last season- and I appreciate Odemwingie and Baker had gone- was £13m, how can it fall to that? Associated costs as per last years accounts were about £2m.

Should a possible question therefore not be why was the wage bill slashed? As that if true amounts to a slashing of the wage bill (distribution of football to non football staff is not broken down in 15-16 accounts so is impossible to fully judge that side of it).

http://www.bcfc.co.uk/documents/bcfc-2016-final-accounts213-3502696.pdf

It'll be a working dopcument, an ideal informed by the requiremets of FFP.  But I didn't save a copy so I don't know to what it totals.  I'd assume 70 - 80% of salary costs in the accounts relate to the players.

Cheers for the accounts link btw, I hadn't seen these.  Reassuringly their standard of preparation is excellent which is a good indicator of the quality of the financial systems behind them; they used to contain several errors.

[Robin Ashton]

8 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Can someone tell me when Bristol Sport changed the name of the team to Harchester United?

 

Or Fulchester United!

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, Mr Hankey said:

Some people don't want to believe the way the club is being run, the same people that claim it could be worse without Lansdown such as a Vincent Tan or some other "dictator" in charge.......yet it seems like that is exactly what we have, a dictator. I get people questioning certain things when people come out with "itk" stuff, but as other aspects of that post have been specualted months ago, i dont think there's much to deny. Sounds pretty spot on to what we have all thought for a while.

You can't deny that if it is Wes's dad, he is going to be highly embittered that the club didn't have faith in his son and not necessarily the most disassionate of commentators.

[nebristolred]

To be fair, £13m could be accurate I guess, when you take the total salaries totted up from that document, add appearance/goal fees etc, then add the non playing staff at the club, and then add on what presumably would be a substantial bonus from the double season which would possibly have been paid in June 2015.

[Kid in the Riot]

Just now, Red-Robbo said:

You can't deny that if it is Wes's dad, he is going to be highly embittered that the club didn't have faith in his son and not necessarily the most disassionate of commentators.

Of course. Bitter about COD too who would no doubt be seen as direct competition to Wes. Author bias noted, it's still an interesting read. Did he speak to someone at Oxford who laughed at the fee and wages we paid for COD? Who knows, not exactly improbable though is it?

[Bristol Rob]

3 minutes ago, Robin Ashton said:

Or Fulchester United!

Engval could play the role of the invisible man!

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Of course. Bitter about COD too who would no doubt be seen as direct competition to Wes. Author bias noted, it's still an interesting read. Did he speak to someone at Oxford who laughed at the fee and wages we paid for COD? Who knows, not exactly improbable though is it?

Nope. I don't doubt some of the basic charges.  I think he's wrong about Engval, unless for some reason he could play well in Sweden but went to pieces when moved 500 miles west.

['Orns]

Someone may have already posted this, but having a PM with another poster.....why has this thread been allowed to stay up this long?

Whether it's true, whether it has come from Mr B - if you were SL, MA, LJ (and lets not kid ourselves they don't know it's here) surely you'd want this taken down? Or is it being left here to leave LJ out to dry? There are some pretty damning comments on there that we can do without right now. Again, whether it's true or not, and I don't know, it's info you don't want out there for your customers to read. Or am I missing some kind of bigger picture here?

[WhistleHappy]

14 hours ago, NickJ said:

Lansdown has royally ****** up and the only question I cannot answer ATM is why.

Reminds me of a lady called Di ...

[Robin1988]

39 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Are people seriously suggesting that someone went to the trouble of fabricating all of that in an attempt to imitate Wes Burns' Dad?

Hilarious.

The Lansdown's must feel blessed to have such a stupid fan base supporting their club.

While most of it doesn't seem to be fabricated, that isn't Wes' dad's writing.

@Woodsy is right, too. There's a lot of defamatory stuff in the OP about Johnson. Far less libellous posts have been removed by the mods before.

[exAtyeoMax]

3 minutes ago, Woodsy said:

Someone may have already posted this, but having a PM with another poster.....why has this thread been allowed to stay up this long?

Whether it's true, whether it has come from Mr B - if you were SL, MA, LJ (and lets not kid ourselves they don't know it's here) surely you'd want this taken down? Or is it being left here to leave LJ out to dry? There are some pretty damning comments on there that we can do without right now. Again, whether it's true or not, and I don't know, it's info you don't want out there for your customers to read. Or am I missing some kind of bigger picture here?

I was thinking along the same lines. No mods in the vicinity…

[CyderInACan]

2 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I was thinking along the same lines. No mods in the vicinity…

Perhaps they've agreed not to be on here for a few hours to see what traction it gets?