Engvall

[WRERE]

2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The management team watch him up close in training and have access to stats that we don't. I'd like to think they'd have a better grasp on who's ready to play and who isn't than you or I from watching a few highlights.

I agree in that I'd like to see him get a chance and hopefully he gets one this season.

It's fine watching him in training but competitive matches are different and he should be given a chance like other players have. It's not as if he's so far off the ball he'll be a complete liability at this level. He was getting good reviews from the game at Hull, so if he can play against a Prem side so why hasn't Johnson trusted him with 10 minutes here and there against Championship teams? He's been on the bench 14 times without being used. I think we have a real good player on our hands and if we do sell him back to Sweden I don't think it will be long before he moves to a top foreign league, alas Andreas Cornelius.

 

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

It could just be that , unfortunately, despite all our best efforts the lad just can't or won't settle over here .

It is not necessarily the club's fault .

 

I don't disagree in that it's probably been hard for him to settle in and that all the blame is on the club, but what does putting him on the bench and not bringing him on do for him? Let him have a run out and who knows how good that could be for him and us.

 

30 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

With all due respect how do you know the 'situation' - whatever it is - isn't one of Engvall's making rather than Johnson's?

Not saying it's not a Johnson-made situation as it may well be, but theres any number of potential explanations for his lack of game time here, and poor management from our side is only one, but it seems to keep getting presented as fact that the fault with this whole scenario is BCFC (mis)management?

I didn't say I know the 'situation' nor did I claim it was all mismanagement from our end. There's no doubt, IMO, that there has been mismanagement and not just in Engvall's case but other players too. I'm trying to wrap my head around why we have a player who has a good pedigree in youth football for Sweden's national side and been playing in the top flight at 18 can't get a few minutes off the bench the 14 times he's been on there without getting picked. Judging by Engvall's interviews he's frustrated at the lack of opportunities he's been given and I hope with a full pre-season with the squad he can crack on and get in the side.

[GrahamC]

52 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

We paid £1.3m if the stories are to be believed and would probably get back £750 - 800k so a nett loss of around £500k. If we bought a player from say, the Belgian league for £500k and it didn`t work out we`d all be saying `ah well, these things happen, on to the next one`.

.

Can't agree with that.

That Belgian example is pretty much exactly what happened with Peter Styvar under GJ and people still mention him now.

Our Swedish friends on here will confirm, but they have no track record of regularly paying even £500k for a player in their own domestic league, so unless we can move him on to another Northern European country that is more willing to do so (Holland or Germany, I guess) even the scenario you describe is actually a very optimistic one.

My money is on an extension of his loan followed by a move to a Swedish team for an "undisclosed" fee.

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Red Right Hand said:

We paid £1.3m if the stories are to be believed and would probably get back £750 - 800k so a nett loss of around £500k. If we bought a player from say, the Belgian league for £500k and it didn`t work out we`d all be saying `ah well, these things happen, on to the next one`.

I do agree with @WRERE though, I would be more disappointed that we`d let a potentially decent player slip through our hands.

Time will tell I suppose.

Why would we get back less than we paid ? 

With the goals he's scored in Sweden and a European U21 competition under his belt shouldn't he be worth more than we paid for him ? 

[BRISTOL86]

4 minutes ago, WRERE said:

It's fine watching him in training but competitive matches are different and he should be given a chance like other players have. It's not as if he's so far off the ball he'll be a complete liability at this level. He was getting good reviews from the game at Hull, so if he can play against a Prem side so why hasn't Johnson trusted him with 10 minutes here and there against Championship teams? He's been on the bench 14 times without being used. I think we have a real good player on our hands and if we do sell him back to Sweden I don't think it will be long before he moves to a top foreign league, alas Andreas Cornelius.

 

I don't disagree in that it's probably been hard for him to settle in and that all the blame is on the club, but what does putting him on the bench and not bringing him on do for him? Let him have a run out and who knows how good that could be for him and us.

 

I didn't say I know the 'situation' nor did I claim it was all mismanagement from our end. There's no doubt, IMO, that there has been mismanagement and not just in Engvall's case but other players too. I'm trying to wrap my head around why we have a player who has a good pedigree in youth football for Sweden's national side and been playing in the top flight at 18 can't get a few minutes off the bench the 14 times he's been on there without getting picked. Judging by Engvall's interviews he's frustrated at the lack of opportunities he's been given and I hope with a full pre-season with the squad he can crack on and get in the side.

It wasn't aimed personally at you but you've now said that you have 'no doubt in your opinion' that he's been mismanaged. 

Why is that? Do you know something? 

For instance how do you know he doesn't turn up for training late and put in 50% effort? How do you know he wasn't disruptive in some way, or involved in an unsavoury incident with someone? Not saying any of this is the case of course but you see my point. Lots of guesswork going on.

Unless you're Gustav, Johnson or someone else who is within the 'camp' or have insider knowledge, what evidence is there of mismanagement on our part rather than a problem on Gustav's part?

I admit it's a bewildering situation but it's a big assumption that it's because he's been badly managed. Maybe his head wasn't right here? Maybe he was not focussed and distracted by off the field stuff? Homesick? Maybe he just came for the money and didn't put the effort in? 

Turning down a loan to England will not have helped his cause and suggests to me that he hasn't settled well in England. 

Or of course LJ could be a bastard and everyone hates him. 

[JoeAman08]

6 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Why would we get back less than we paid ? 

With the goals he's scored in Sweden and a European U21 competition under his belt shouldn't he be worth more than we paid for him ? 

We'd get back less because we paid more just for being an English club. That's the reality of it. If he'd have gone to Gronigen, Montpelier, Braga or Freiburg the fee would've been no more than €1m. We paid roughly €1.5m. He won't be increasing his value by scoring more goals in the Swedish league so if we did sell, I think it would be at a loss. Best case scenario(if we sell)is that he impresses enough that we can sell him directly to one of those type teams I've mentioned for about 1m euros and get the sell on in that. Of course all in my own opinion. I like his game but if he doesn't want to fight for a spot then it's best he goes. 

[simon uk]

5 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Why would we get back less than we paid ? 

With the goals he's scored in Sweden and a European U21 competition under his belt shouldn't he be worth more than we paid for him ? 

To who? Swedish teams dont pay big transfer fees, nor do other scandinavian clubs. if he cant get a game for us, its unlikely a bundesliga team would go for him. Same with ligue 1. The dutch league would be a reasonable place for him to end up, but you arent going to see ajax paying 2 million for a bristol city reserve. Maybe one of the midtable dutch teams might fancy it, or german second division or something? The whole thing is a huge mismanagement of a player firstly in signing him in the first place if he isnt given any game time, but also not  then giving any opportunity whatsoever to show what he can do.

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

It wasn't aimed personally at you but you've now said that you have 'no doubt in your opinion' that he's been mismanaged. 

Why is that? Do you know something? 

For instance how do you know he doesn't turn up for training late and put in 50% effort? How do you know he wasn't disruptive in some way, or involved in an unsavoury incident with someone? Not saying any of this is the case of course but you see my point. Lots of guesswork going on.

Unless you're Gustav, Johnson or someone else who is within the 'camp' or have insider knowledge, what evidence is there of mismanagement on our part rather than a problem on Gustav's part?

I admit it's a bewildering situation but it's a big assumption that it's because he's been badly managed. Maybe his head wasn't right here? Maybe he was not focussed and distracted by off the field stuff? Homesick? Maybe he just came for the money and didn't put the effort in? 

Turning down a loan to England will not have helped his cause and suggests to me that he hasn't settled well in England. 

Or of course LJ could be a bastard and everyone hates him. 

Exactly. None of us know. 

One thing that would help a player settle and / or integrate would be game time. He hasn't had that. 

I've said several times that we tended to play one up top (Tammy), and in our bad run (am I allowed to refer to that) when we were chasing games LJ deferred to Wilbs. Why wouldn't you. Typically you go a bit more direct and that suited Wilbs. No issues there. 

What did LJ give GE in terms of game time expectations. No idea. But I'd be surprised if it was any more than along the lines of "you'll need to bide your time, young'un". 

He was given a loan opportunity in Lg1, turned it down, around the time we signed Taylor, which in fairness might have been a kick in the nuts. 

Etc

Etc

The point being now. He's made a deal with LJ to go to Tenerife. Let's see the outcome. He might come back all motivated and confident, impress and he then becomes an important squad member. He might not. 

Whatever will be will be. 

I will be disappointed if he goes without getting a chance, whether that be his own petulance or LJ's doing. He has ability and is young with the potential to be decent imho. 

 

[bristolcitysweden]

Latest is that Engvall is injured and could miss the last two games before T3. Will head to Kaknäs  (Djurgårdens training camp) tomorrow morning.

[BRISTOL86]

Well said @Davefevs

I'm as keen for the next man to see GE come back, raring to go and show what he can do. 

What annoys me is the relentless statement of the opinion that he's been 'badly managed' - almost always stated as fact - when the reality is none of us know what the circumstances are. 

Fingers crossed we see what he can do, though it's got to be said that you'd think if he was pulling up any trees whatsoever whilst training with us, he'd have come into the team, where instead we bought two more strikers.

Doesn't fill me with confidence that he was in any way doing anything in training to suggest a Championship standard player or his absence is bewildering. 

With all due respect to the Swedish league I imagine you could put any number of our players into it and have them make a very positive impact. 

Heres hoping he comes back raring to go to fight for his place, he seems happy as Larry in Sweden so who knows. 

[JoeAman08]

2 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Well said @Davefevs

I'm as keen for the next man to see GE come back, raring to go and show what he can do. 

What annoys me is the relentless statement of the opinion that he's been 'badly managed' - almost always stated as fact - when the reality is none of us know what the circumstances are. 

Fingers crossed we see what he can do, though it's got to be said that you'd think if he was pulling up any trees whatsoever whilst training with us, he'd have come into the team, where instead we bought two more strikers.

Doesn't fill me with confidence that he was in any way doing anything in training to suggest a Championship standard player or his absence is bewildering. 

With all due respect to the Swedish league I imagine you could put any number of our players into it and have them make a very positive impact. 

Heres hoping he comes back raring to go to fight for his place, he seems happy as Larry in Sweden so who knows. 

What winds me up about the poorly managed comments is that Gustav and Taylor Moore have had almost identical years. Nothing is ever said about Taylor Moore. Maybe because he's English though he did just move away from all his friends and family in France. Or maybe because he took the loan to L1 which we got for Gustav and he personally didn't want. They've been handled so similarly with the same fee yet nothing is ever said about Taylor Moores lack of first team football at Bristol city for that price. I mean they're so similar that they both had their best games against Hull in the cup!! But we've managed Gustav poorly somehow  they were both young, decent fees, good pedigree in their national youth teams, sporadically appeared in games while making the bench often. They both had better players in front of them and weren't loaned out in August because we needed the cover because of new loan rules and no one in front of them hit bad form or had injuries. As simple as that. Hell, even O'Dowda and Brownhill were similar that half of the year. Brownhill got loads better and O'Dowda got more chances with Golbourne becoming unfavoured with Joe going exclusively at LB and Freeman leaving. You need to work hard and take the few chances you do get like Brownhill did 

[Super]

Get rid of him put it down to a mistake and lets move on.

[...]

34 minutes ago, Super said:

Get rid of him put it down to a mistake and lets move on.

Are you sure?

 

tfj

[AppyDAZE]

3 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Well said @Davefevs

I'm as keen for the next man to see GE come back, raring to go and show what he can do. 

What annoys me is the relentless statement of the opinion that he's been 'badly managed' - almost always stated as fact - when the reality is none of us know what the circumstances are. 

Fingers crossed we see what he can do, though it's got to be said that you'd think if he was pulling up any trees whatsoever whilst training with us, he'd have come into the team, where instead we bought two more strikers.

Doesn't fill me with confidence that he was in any way doing anything in training to suggest a Championship standard player or his absence is bewildering. 

With all due respect to the Swedish league I imagine you could put any number of our players into it and have them make a very positive impact. 

Heres hoping he comes back raring to go to fight for his place, he seems happy as Larry in Sweden so who knows. 

Google translate.......

........

The Swedish League is.... Skit

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 hours ago, Red Right Hand said:

We paid £1.3m if the stories are to be believed and would probably get back £750 - 800k so a nett loss of around £500k. If we bought a player from say, the Belgian league for £500k and it didn`t work out we`d all be saying `ah well, these things happen, on to the next one`.

I do agree with @WRERE though, I would be more disappointed that we`d let a potentially decent player slip through our hands.

Time will tell I suppose.

LJ stated on RB it was over £2 million

[BRISTOL86]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

LJ stated on RB it was over £2 million

Over £2m outright? Or over £2m depending on appearances or other clauses? 

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, BRISTOL86 said:

Over £2m outright? Or over £2m depending on appearances or other clauses? 

He didn't say anything about clauses

[BRISTOL86]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

What winds me up about the poorly managed comments is that Gustav and Taylor Moore have had almost identical years. Nothing is ever said about Taylor Moore. Maybe because he's English though he did just move away from all his friends and family in France. Or maybe because he took the loan to L1 which we got for Gustav and he personally didn't want. They've been handled so similarly with the same fee yet nothing is ever said about Taylor Moores lack of first team football at Bristol city for that price. I mean they're so similar that they both had their best games against Hull in the cup!! But we've managed Gustav poorly somehow  they were both young, decent fees, good pedigree in their national youth teams, sporadically appeared in games while making the bench often. They both had better players in front of them and weren't loaned out in August because we needed the cover because of new loan rules and no one in front of them hit bad form or had injuries. As simple as that. Hell, even O'Dowda and Brownhill were similar that half of the year. Brownhill got loads better and O'Dowda got more chances with Golbourne becoming unfavoured with Joe going exclusively at LB and Freeman leaving. You need to work hard and take the few chances you do get like Brownhill did 

I had the very same thought earlier with regards the similarity of Moore and Engvall's seasons. 

[BRISTOL86]

5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

He didn't say anything about clauses

If £2m+ outright that seems insanely high. But you never know with City!

[AppyDAZE]

38 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

If £2m+ outright that seems insanely high. But you never know with City!

or indeed any club (or lots) in 2017

[...]

THIS IS WHAT CAN HAPPEN WHEN A CLUB SPENDS OVER A MILLION ON AN ANAGRAM NO ONE CAN ******* SOLVE.

 

tfj

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

What winds me up about the poorly managed comments is that Gustav and Taylor Moore have had almost identical years. Nothing is ever said about Taylor Moore. Maybe because he's English though he did just move away from all his friends and family in France. Or maybe because he took the loan to L1 which we got for Gustav and he personally didn't want. They've been handled so similarly with the same fee yet nothing is ever said about Taylor Moores lack of first team football at Bristol city for that price. I mean they're so similar that they both had their best games against Hull in the cup!! But we've managed Gustav poorly somehow  they were both young, decent fees, good pedigree in their national youth teams, sporadically appeared in games while making the bench often. They both had better players in front of them and weren't loaned out in August because we needed the cover because of new loan rules and no one in front of them hit bad form or had injuries. As simple as that. Hell, even O'Dowda and Brownhill were similar that half of the year. Brownhill got loads better and O'Dowda got more chances with Golbourne becoming unfavoured with Joe going exclusively at LB and Freeman leaving. You need to work hard and take the few chances you do get like Brownhill did 

Joe.  I might be reading this wrong.  Are you saying that people who say Johnson managed Engvall badly, don't say the same about Moore?

If so, read some of my comments post-Reading at home.  I've never been so angry. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said:

If £2m+ outright that seems insanely high. But you never know with City!

I would be surprised if many deals these days are all up front but who knows

Depends how keen we were to get  him I would,guess

[JoeAman08]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Joe.  I might be reading this wrong.  Are you saying that people who say Johnson managed Engvall badly, don't say the same about Moore?

If so, read some of my comments post-Reading at home.  I've never been so angry. 

Yes. I don't see nearly the comments about Moore being mismanaged. I've seen a few questioning the price but not the situations. They are nearly identical but when it comes to Engvall the majority here say get rid and call it a mistake and I don't think I've read that once about Moore(which we shouldn't because I think he's a hell of a prospect for us). Look Engvall may never get a look in here or may not want to be here but no one knows for sure. Assuming he'll get a fair chance in Spain and he wants to stay then I believe he could have a big part to play for us this season.

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Yes. I don't see nearly the comments about Moore being mismanaged. I've seen a few questioning the price but not the situations. They are nearly identical but when it comes to Engvall the majority here say get rid and call it a mistake and I don't think I've read that once about Moore(which we shouldn't because I think he's a hell of a prospect for us). Look Engvall may never get a look in here or may not want to be here but no one knows for sure. Assuming he'll get a fair chance in Spain and he wants to stay then I believe he could have a big part to play for us this season.

Yeah. Agree. But then again you have to ignore a lot of posts on here. 

[Son of Fred]

10 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

If £2m+ outright that seems insanely high. But you never know with City!

There was a questionably high 'agents fee involved which hikes the cost....

[Major Isewater]

10 hours ago, Taxi for Johnson said:

THIS IS WHAT CAN HAPPEN WHEN A CLUB SPENDS OVER A MILLION ON AN ANAGRAM NO ONE CAN ******* SOLVE.

 

tfj

I think you mean ' migena ' No one can solve ? 

[bristolcitysweden]

No Engvall at todays Djurgården training session. Out with a calf muscle injury and can miss T3

[bristolcitysweden]

Gustav will miss tomorrows game against Sundsvall and could miss next Sundays game as well. His calf injury will be assessed on Monday/Tuesday 

[Major Isewater]

7 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said:

Gustav will miss tomorrows game against Sundsvall and could miss next Sundays game as well. His calf injury will be assessed on Monday/Tuesday 

If I was cynical, which I'm not , I might just think this injury could avoid a stand off in Tenerife.

 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

If I was cynical, which I'm not , I might just think this injury could avoid a stand off in Tenerife.

 

Very cynical. He he