The Semenyo Thread - Now a Bournemouth Player. Deal Confirmed

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

Apart from.when he's creating, or tracking back or holding up the ball or making Intelligent runs or drawing players out of position

Apart from all that he's quite anonymous 

Exactly what I’m trying to say……badly, obviously! Things that are all great stuff and he’s brilliant at them, but aren’t what I’d call the ‘wow factor’ or that get you leaping out of your seat. Which is what the original comment was about. 

I’m not knocking Weimann - far from it - just saying that a lot of what he does goes far more un-noticed than a more physical, direct player like Semenyo.

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

Exactly that, what an awful post. Weimann is our most important player. Key to how we play

Agree - and what we missed so badly last season. But, as I’ve said above, please put my post in its context. 

[Port Said Red]

2 hours ago, italian dave said:

I think the difference is that when Weimann isn’t scoring he’s often quite anonymous. 

Maybe to the average fan on the terraces, but anyone who knows there is more to the game will know what he brings. 

Was it against Preston where he was directing Martin into position behind his back as he was driving into the opposition half, creating a great breakaway goal? 

People within the game see his value I am sure.

[Monkeh]

8 hours ago, italian dave said:

Exactly what I’m trying to say……badly, obviously! Things that are all great stuff and he’s brilliant at them, but aren’t what I’d call the ‘wow factor’ or that get you leaping out of your seat. Which is what the original comment was about. 

I’m not knocking Weimann - far from it - just saying that a lot of what he does goes far more un-noticed than a more physical, direct player like Semenyo.

Ahh ot didn't come across like that, thanks for the clarification 

[italian dave]

20 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

Maybe to the average fan on the terraces, but anyone who knows there is more to the game will know what he brings. 

Was it against Preston where he was directing Martin into position behind his back as he was driving into the opposition half, creating a great breakaway goal? 

People within the game see his value I am sure.

 

12 hours ago, Monkeh said:

Ahh ot didn't come across like that, thanks for the clarification 

Sorry...I didn't put it very well.

I'm quite sure people within the game see his value, as indeed do many fans. It's just that it's not 'wow factor' leap out of your seat type value - which is where this started.

That Preston goal being an example - and when that sort of ability doesn't result in a goal its noticed even less.

When Semenyo has the ball at his feet, two defenders in front of him, and he is ready to go at them, you can almost sense the anticipation in the crowd. Weimann tracking back, directing, making clever runs, less so.

I think that 'edge of seat' stuff is more about anticipation than it is necessarily about end product. Semenyo as above: JET receiving the ball with his back to goal. Even (dare I say it!) Palmer looking up for a pass. Often (very often in some cases) it doesn't come off, but they are players who generate that excitement.

When the whole team has an off day and we lose without putting up much of a fight, the comments on the match day thread reflect this, I think. Weimann is often described as anonymous. Semenyo is described as crap! I think that's because you notice still Semenyo on an off day, there's still the anticipation that he could do something but you're  constantly let down. Whereas Weimann making those runs that no-one picks up, trying to direct play and being ignored, drawing opponents out of position only for no-one to take advantage - that just doesn't get noticed.

Personally, I love watching defenders who can manage opposing forwards, who stay unflustered, read the approach perfectly, just steer the attacker away from trouble and into places they don't want to be. It's not edge of your seat stuff. The crowd pleasers are the ones who tackle - and again the anticipation is always there, despite the risk of them missing completely and giving the attacker a clear run - or of giving away a free kick.

And I just think that the game needs its Semenyos and its Tanners to get the crowd excited. But that's absolutely not to underestimate the Kloses and the Weimanns and the role they play. Quite the opposite in fact!

[mozo]

So if Semenyo was bought for say £20m and we need to bank a chunk of that to balance the books, is there anyone in the lower leagues we can nab for £5m as a replacement a la the Brentford model?

Or would NP choose, or be forced, to put his faith in Conway, Bell or even Edwards to step up and fill a front 3 role and could they meet the challenge.

Or is Scott ready for the in behind role, allowing Weimann to take the Semenyo role?

Edited May 18, 2022 by mozo

[AshtonRobin21]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

So if Semenyo was bought for say £20m and we need to bank a chunk of that to balance the books, is there anyone in the lower leagues we can nab for £5m as a replacement a la the Brentford model?

Or would NP choose, or be forced, to put his faith in Conway, Bell or even Edwards to step up and fill a front 3 role and could they meet the challenge.

Or is Scott ready for the in behind role, allowing Weimann to take the Semenyo role?

Likely to have bigger clubs after him, but I would go all out for Scott Twine, £5m-£7m should be enough to secure him. 

We could offer him a route to Prem football should he do well, which in turn could secure us another huge fee in the future. 

Not a like-for-like with Semenyo, but has all the attributes required to be a success at this level. He can play either out wide, or centrally, and could rotate positionally with Weimann. 

That said, Norwich, Burnley and many others have already been credited with an interest in him. 

 

[cidered abroad]

15 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Good question, as we can see what Antoine brings and it is something we have missed for years . Nige clearly likes Conway , whilst he has pace, he does not have that extreme power and strength Antoine has. There will be another out there for sure, maybe not in our lower leagues, maybe abroad. Some of the scouting group may have ideas. But the impact of having such a powerhouse is very very clear . Now I've seen it... I want to see more ! I love watching Antoine, it is years since I have seen a City forward be almost unplayable. His 2 goals against Fulham, against 2 of the most expensive and capable defenders in the league, was sensational. He reminds me a little of Antonio at WHU . I dream of keeping him one more season, as it would make our outside chances of replicating Forest or Huddersfield almost possible . 

When a manager is building a team from a squad of players, the ace in the pack is usually the final place that is filled.

We have what my Dad used to call the "Tin Opener", usually a midfield creator of chances. But Semenyo is an attacking one who for a club in our position, is almost priceless. Keep him for another year or two and we have a great chance of getting there!

There is the Prem, if anyone's in doubt.

[Taz]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

So if Semenyo was bought for say £20m and we need to bank a chunk of that to balance the books, is there anyone in the lower leagues we can nab for £5m as a replacement a la the Brentford model?

Or would NP choose, or be forced, to put his faith in Conway, Bell or even Edwards to step up and fill a front 3 role and could they meet the challenge.

Or is Scott ready for the in behind role, allowing Weimann to take the Semenyo role?

Why would anybody even consider changing Weimanns position? 

Top goalscorer, best season for us since arriving, why would you move him?

[Davefevs]

33 minutes ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

Likely to have bigger clubs after him, but I would go all out for Scott Twine, £5m-£7m should be enough to secure him. 

We could offer him a route to Prem football should he do well, which in turn could secure us another huge fee in the future. 

Not a like-for-like with Semenyo, but has all the attributes required to be a success at this level. He can play either out wide, or centrally, and could rotate positionally with Weimann. 

That said, Norwich, Burnley and many others have already been credited with an interest in him. 

 

I really like Twine, @Harryadores him!

I just have a nagging doubt about his ceiling, and wonder why no Champ clubs took him last summer.  Can’t really explain it other than that….and whilst I’d have been delighted to have taken him for compo off Swindon last summer, I’m not sure I’d pay £5m+ for him this summer.

Semenyo at 22 is a bit of a freak strength wise at this level….Keinan Davis is 24 and although has more strength isn’t as explosive as Antoine.  He’s 3 forwards built into 1, and would be very difficult / impossible to replace like for like on the sort of money we will have available should Antoine leave.

I like Daniel Udoh (26 in Aug) at Shrewsbury, not in Semenyo’s class, but I sense he’s on an upward trend, having come up through non-league.  I hope Wilbs has been an influence on him.  Would still be a gamble to think Udoh could replace Semenyo, but I wonder whether Nige would have to evolve the forward line of Antoine went anyway?

The other player I wouldn’t turn my nose up as a real punt, would be Cole Stockton.  But that would be a gamble…having said that people said he wouldn’t score at Lg1 level.  I was chatting to @Sheltons Armylast night, and I’m quite drawn to players who perform in poor sides….Stockton is one of those, Rudoni (Wimbledon) is another.

But it’s gonna be interesting to see what happens with Semenyo and also how our forward line might shape up over the summer…Wells might leave a gap anyway, let alone Antoine.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Taz said:

Why would anybody even consider changing Weimanns position? 

Top goalscorer, best season for us since arriving, why would you move him?

That is a really interesting conundrum.  I think Andi is intelligent enough to score goals wherever you play him…as long as it’s central.  Just don’t play him wide imho.  He scored 5 in 6 playing as the main man when he first joined us.

If you could shape a better “team” as a result, I’d do it like a shot.

But next season’s plan are a big unknown at the mo’

[mozo]

11 minutes ago, Taz said:

Why would anybody even consider changing Weimanns position? 

Top goalscorer, best season for us since arriving, why would you move him?

I don't disagree with you, but to answer your question I guess the scenario would be that Semenyo is sold, NP isn't given any money to spend (FFP) so he has to make do with what's left in the squad. He doesn't feel Bell or Conway are ready to play up top with Martin and we also have the issue of Scott reluctantly playing wing-back. So you solve both problems by shifting Weimann to give you a proper forward line and use Scott in his preferred position behind the front 2.

[chinapig]

3 minutes ago, mozo said:

I don't disagree with you, but to answer your question I guess the scenario would be that Semenyo is sold, NP isn't given any money to spend (FFP) so he has to make do with what's left in the squad. He doesn't feel Bell or Conway are ready to play up top with Martin and we also have the issue of Scott reluctantly playing wing-back. So you solve both problems by shifting Weimann to give you a proper forward line and use Scott in his preferred position behind the front 2.

We don't need that much to close any FFP gap. So chances are Nigel would be allowed to spend some of the fee, unless Steve wants to reduce the overall debt in addition to complying with FFP.

[JoeAman08]

I don’t think it is like for like in terms of pace and power(who is?) but I like the look of Afolayan at Bolton. Idk what his cost would be but 12 goals and 7 assists for a mid table side isn’t bad. He is a bit older than Antoine but at 25 start of next season could be hitting his best football. 

[GrahamC]

5 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I don’t think it is like for like in terms of pace and power(who is?) but I like the look of Afolayan at Bolton. Idk what his cost would be but 12 goals and 7 assists for a mid table side isn’t bad. He is a bit older than Antoine but at 25 start of next season could be hitting his best football. 

Like him, too.

Bolton fan I work with reckons he tailed off a bit second half of the season after being their standout player earlier on, but he’s unpredictable, creates as well as scores & is definitely worth a look.

Think he’s more of a 10 than to play where Antoine plays for us, but someone we should have on our radar.

Londoner too, so doubt he would mind moving back South.

[Davefevs]

33 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I don’t think it is like for like in terms of pace and power(who is?) but I like the look of Afolayan at Bolton. Idk what his cost would be but 12 goals and 7 assists for a mid table side isn’t bad. He is a bit older than Antoine but at 25 start of next season could be hitting his best football. 

24 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Like him, too.

Bolton fan I work with reckons he tailed off a bit second half of the season after being their standout player earlier on, but he’s unpredictable, creates as well as scores & is definitely worth a look.

Think he’s more of a 10 than to play where Antoine plays for us, but someone we should have on our radar.

Londoner too, so doubt he would mind moving back South.

He’s played all over this season, seemed to find his best form as more of a Left Forward, and you maybe right that the move to a “10” might’ve impacted him.  A player who naturally likes to drift into the left-half.

I think he’s a player we should be interested in, but might be affected by the playing system we intend to deploy in terms of how far up the list he is.

[tin]

56 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Like him, too.

Bolton fan I work with reckons he tailed off a bit second half of the season after being their standout player earlier on, but he’s unpredictable, creates as well as scores & is definitely worth a look.

Think he’s more of a 10 than to play where Antoine plays for us, but someone we should have on our radar.

Londoner too, so doubt he would mind moving back South.

He fits the profile, for sure, having had seven years in the Chelsea academy and at 24, has scope for improvement. Interesting one, Bolton’s POTY as well.

[Davefevs]

49 minutes ago, tin said:

He fits the profile, for sure, having had seven years in the Chelsea academy and at 24, has scope for improvement. Interesting one, Bolton’s POTY as well.

With O’Dowda gone too, you could argue there is a gap in the squad waiting to be filled.  I’m a bit disappointed I didn’t have him on my long list.  In my defence my “wide forward and attacking midfielders” list has Twine, Ogbene, Scully, Rudoni and Wiles (who’s more of a midfielder than forward).

 

edit: Rotherham have exercised Ogbene’s option.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Davefevs

[tin]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

With O’Dowda gone too, you could argue there is a gap in the squad waiting to be filled.  I’m a bit disappointed I didn’t have him on my long list.  In my defence my “wide forward and attacking midfielders” list has Twine, Ogbene, Scully, Rudoni and Wiles (who’s more of a midfielder than forward).

 

edit: Rotherham have exercised Ogbene’s option.

I think, and thought at the time, we missed the boat with taking a punt on Twine last summer. I reckon he’s out of our price range now, sadly. He has to be worth around £2m now IMO, if not more.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, tin said:

I think, and thought at the time, we missed the boat with taking a punt on Twine last summer. I reckon he’s out of our price range now, sadly. He has to be worth around £2m now IMO, if not more.

…and some I reckon.

[Sheltons Army]

10 minutes ago, tin said:

I think, and thought at the time, we missed the boat with taking a punt on Twine last summer. I reckon he’s out of our price range now, sadly. He has to be worth around £2m now IMO, if not more.

I’m not convinced by Twines all round game for Championship

I’ve always been impressed with the quality of his goals since Swindon

Strikes a cracking ball , but wouldnt get the space he gets in L1

He’s one who could step up , and has obvious attraction for the season just gone , but I think he’d be a gamble for the money they’d want.

He could end up as a great buy , but although it wouldn’t be a popular view , I’m not convinced & I don’t think we are in a place to gamble 

 

[Jerseybean]

Alleged West Ham interest amplified here: https://www.hammers.news/transfer-news/report-west-ham-extensively-scouting-20m-striker-whos-a-nightmare-to-play-against/

 

[Taz]

 

3 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

 

That’s according to a report from The Bristol Post

I didn't read any more after that......

[Clevedon Red]

5 minutes ago, Taz said:

 

I didn't read any more after that......

Not sure what hurts my eyes more that website or Dave’s data pictures. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Clevedon Red

[KegCity]

I would be amazed if we don't receive bids from West Ham for at least one of our young players this summer. They've been scouting all 3 for a while now.

[RUSSEL85]

Squad player at best for West Ham whilst he is coached and an ideal replacement for Antonio. £20m would more than do it, as long as NP gets a small percentage to sign a replacement.

[Monkeh]

16 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said:

Squad player at best for West Ham whilst he is coached and an ideal replacement for Antonio. £20m would more than do it, as long as NP gets a small percentage to sign a replacement.

Nothing wrong with being a squad player at a team playing in europe

[RUSSEL85]

31 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Nothing wrong with being a squad player at a team playing in europe

Absolutely, certainly not a criticism. It’s possibly the right thing to do 

[The Bard]

A lot of things point to West ham. Moyes, Bif, their clear need for an understudy to Antonio of a similar style. London. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 18/05/2022 at 07:34, mozo said:

So if Semenyo was bought for say £20m and we need to bank a chunk of that to balance the books, is there anyone in the lower leagues we can nab for £5m as a replacement a la the Brentford model?

By my calculations that I did a while ago, assuming that the overall budget remained the same as Gould seemed to indicate- well I've got several, this is financial not football- we could put £15-16m of that back into the team. Maybe at a slightly adjusted lower end £13-14m.

I have a range of scenarios but have settled on a potential £4-5m, maybe £6-7m overspend albeit caveated...whether we actually would or even should plough all of that headroom into the team in the one season is a different debate.

Anyone good from Peterborough? Or could we take a different tack and go for someone like Joao? Reportedly might be up for sale.

Caveat: My predictions are somewhat bearish, somewhat cautious and perhaps overly so. Dave's are more optimistic, maybe somewhere between the two- but it would give us cash to spend yes.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous