Sack or keep Nigel Pearson

[ProfitInMyPocket]

Do you trust the higher-ups to make the right appointment? I for sure as hell don't. 

We're not plucky Bristol City spunking money down the drain anymore. No 'big names' will come here, people been spouting these names for years and we still end up with nowt. We are not as big or as good as we think we are. Never have been. 

This proper rebuild we're trying to make takes time, football fans and people in general have no patience anymore.

We could be in the Championship, League One or National League South and I'd still support and get behind them. This is the first time since SC's reign where we had a man who is trying to initiate real change and for once the Lansdown family are actually on board with it instead of wasting money.

All I see is this entitlement and I have no idea where it has come from.

I've actually enjoyed watching us quite a lot this season, probably for the first time since 2017-2018.

[Olé]

Keep - there is a massive overreaction to two poor performances at home either side of Xmas for which mistakes by individuals have done for us.

 

This season there have been 5 unacceptable performances - Birmingham and Reading away in October, Lincoln in November and then these two.

What they all have in common is comically bad defending and individual mistakes, for a team that otherwise if it defends well, can be competitive.

We've only lost 1 match this season when conceding no more than one goal - against a very good Sheff Utd team - so if we stay tight we are fine.

When we've sacked managers (i.e. Holden, LJ) it is because there was no longer clear direction and the teams looked confused and disorganised.

It's nonsense to say that's where we are now - it is very obvious how we are trying to play, we are simply underperforming as a squad of players.

 

Up to and including losing away at Norwich and Burnley we were playing among the best football I can remember us playing in the Championship.

We play a 3-5-2 which is compact out of possession and goes direct on the counter to spring players down the channel and crosses into the box.

We stay solid, but try to take the game to opponents early to nick a goal (which is why we're still even after yesterday top 3 in the division at HT).

What has happened over Xmas since 1-0 up vs Stoke is we've made a series of calamitous defender/keeper cock ups (or Naismith when pressed).

At home making big mistakes, confidence drains rapidly to the point our direct style is slow and laboured (5 sideways passes then overhit it long).

 

None of this is a manager who doesn't know how to turn it round, a manager who has lost the dressing room, and all that crap we've seen before.

Remember when LJ or Holden football was at its worst, it was zero shots and no idea what our style of play is or what we're hoping to try and do.

Anyone who claims that's the case now is telling porkies. The instructions and approach is clear (and was evident from how we play from kick off).

We've got players who need to cut out basic errors that put us on the back foot. Brum/Reading at set pieces. Stoke/WBA defender/keeper comms.

Players need to take some effin responsibility. I'm not a fan of Pearson's spiky deflective interviews, but is he really that wrong with what he says? 

[Kolsch]

I think yesterday showed why we need a new manager. The contrast between the way West Brom were yesterday and us was light years difference.

They were well coached and everyone knew their roles.

Us on the other hand..

Edited December 27, 2022 by Kolsch

[firstdivision]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This is where it’s worth reading beyond the headline! 

The art of effective communication, Dave, is that your message is clear. There was enough ambiguity in what he said for supporters to infer he was having a bit of a go. For all  his ‘blame me’ rhetoric, he hates being criticised. He always wants to jab back because he is naturally spikey.

It’s starting to feel like the last days of Rome. Dreadful performance, admittedly against a decent side: poor team and squad selection, odd substitutions and two more mistakes leading to goals, one of them basic. If O’Leary had come for the through ball, he could have a post-Christmas G&T and still got there. 

 

[Major Isewater]

8 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I read a headline where he said not bothered about booing and been booed out of bigger stadiums. That sounds like an insult to the club when I see that. His track record outside of Leicester is absolute shit. Can take that billy big bollocks bullshit(how about that alliteration) somewhere else tbh. 

He’s just saying that he is not cowered by the boo boys. It won’t influence how he works. He has broad shoulders. 

[Sir Geoff]

I 've been a staunch Pearson must stay up to the Lincoln game where I had a wobble and a few doubts crept in. I am now totally ambivalent as to whether he stays or goes. Nearly two years now and little or no improvement in how we play. At the moment we are going backwards no doubt about it (and that's not just with the ball).

[Rob k]

43 minutes ago, Kolsch said:

I think yesterday showed why we need a new manager. The contrast between the way West Brom were yesterday and us was light years difference.

They were well coached and everyone knew their roles.

Us on the other hand..

You can’t compare WBA (a parachute club) with us. 

[harvey54]

Lose at Millwall and Coventry and he has to go

[22A]

15 hours ago, Atticus said:

Sack.

Refusing to change formation. Playing players out of position. Not playing players he signs.

Defensively we show zero improvement week in week out.

Really woeful imo. 

Agreed, but are certain players also just not good enough?

[Shuffle]

We all know that he inherited a massive financial challenge but I genuinely feel that we have a squad that should be doing better than we are currently.  However, what I’m struggling with is the following:

Playing players out of position

How many players has Pearson fallen out with over his tenure….. my impression is that he is too stubborn and cuts off his nose to spite his face

Poor signings

inability to address defensive problems

Too rigid in formations -3-5-2 isn’t working but we persist and don’t adapt to try anything different

Poor use of substitutions - yesterday was final straw

i do accept that the wage bill has come down and that the culture of the club has shifted to probably a more professional environment.  At the end of the day everyone who posts on here wants City to succeed & therefore Pearson to be a success.  Football is a results business and whilst he hasn’t done a bad job off the field and left us in a better position both financially & culturally, we are going backwards.
 

Time for a change 

 

[Kolsch]

1 hour ago, Rob k said:

You can’t compare WBA (a parachute club) with us. 

Nonsense.

 

Compare that WBA team to the one we beat earlier in the season. The new manager has come in and got the players well drilled and fully aware of their jobs and roles. Tactically, they were on another planet.
 

Them being a parachute team is completely irrelevant. I’m comparing NP to their manager and other managers in this league who’ve completely schooled him this season.

[The chief]

8 hours ago, ProfitInMyPocket said:

Do you trust the higher-ups to make the right appointment? I for sure as hell don't. 

We're not plucky Bristol City spunking money down the drain anymore. No 'big names' will come here, people been spouting these names for years and we still end up with nowt. We are not as big or as good as we think we are. Never have been. 

This proper rebuild we're trying to make takes time, football fans and people in general have no patience anymore.

We could be in the Championship, League One or National League South and I'd still support and get behind them. This is the first time since SC's reign where we had a man who is trying to initiate real change and for once the Lansdown family are actually on board with it instead of wasting money.

All I see is this entitlement and I have no idea where it has come from.

I've actually enjoyed watching us quite a lot this season, probably for the first time since 2017-2018.

I don’t think the sack Nige viewpoint is based on  entitlement. As many have said on this thread, it’s the consistent playing players out of position and the continued mistakes made .  His substitutions and inability to impact a game are worrying. How many times have we lost leads in Nige’s reign? No one expects us to dominate this league but if we were smarter with our players and tactics then it’s not ridiculous to think we could easily be mid table . Supporters have every right to call this out and be highly critical. 

The mis use of Weimann baffles everyone . It’s like playing fellow top scorers from last season, Mitrovic or Solanke, at RWB. 

yesterday there was a certain passiveness to our play and players weren’t giving everything to win every ball. You could see it all over the park.
 

Given the above I’d say time for a change

I agree about the higher ups and hiring tho . This is an area where we’d be hoping they get lucky as opposed to having a well considered succession plan! 

COYR. 

[Bedred31]

52 minutes ago, Kolsch said:

Nonsense.

 

Compare that WBA team to the one we beat earlier in the season. The new manager has come in and got the players well drilled and fully aware of their jobs and roles. Tactically, they were on another planet.
 

Them being a parachute team is completely irrelevant. I’m comparing NP to their manager and other managers in this league who’ve completely schooled him this season.

If you think being a parachute payment team is irrelevant, you’re gong to have to explain why Burnley and Sheffield U - two teams who had a terrible season last year- are 1 and 2 in the league- and by a country mile.

[And Its Smith]

How can he not at least try a back 4?  We’ve had a shocking defence for nearly 2 years under his tenure all whilst playing a back 5.  Does he seriously think a back 4 will be any worse?  Crazy to keep on picking the same kind of team 

[Rob k]

59 minutes ago, Kolsch said:

Nonsense.

 

Compare that WBA team to the one we beat earlier in the season. The new manager has come in and got the players well drilled and fully aware of their jobs and roles. Tactically, they were on another planet.
 

Them being a parachute team is completely irrelevant. I’m comparing NP to their manager and other managers in this league who’ve completely schooled him this season.

Your talking rubbish if you think having 100 odd million over 3 years is irrelevant, this isn’t football manager, they have better players than us all over the pitch 

funny how you give no credit to NP for that result though isn’t it!!

[tin]

1 hour ago, Kolsch said:

Nonsense.

Compare that WBA team to the one we beat earlier in the season. The new manager has come in and got the players well drilled and fully aware of their jobs and roles. Tactically, they were on another planet.
 

Them being a parachute team is completely irrelevant. I’m comparing NP to their manager and other managers in this league who’ve completely schooled him this season.

You mean compare the West Brom side that has proven quality players at this level (Furlong, Swift, Wallace to name three) who are all on big wages that we can’t afford to pay, with players who’ve been picked up from L1 and L2 (Sykes, Atkinson, Tanner to name three)? In no way is that irrelevant. 

[redsquirrel]

it will be flemming or euell if NP goes, you just know it,then the twaddle of long and hard selection process which will be decided on who needs the least money.

im still for keeping NP, even if we go down. let him finish the job he took on and see where we are then. i dont think hes the sort of bloke who would take on such a basket case if he didnt think he could rebuild it

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Kolsch said:

Nonsense.

 

Compare that WBA team to the one we beat earlier in the season. The new manager has come in and got the players well drilled and fully aware of their jobs and roles. Tactically, they were on another planet.
 

Them being a parachute team is completely irrelevant. I’m comparing NP to their manager and other managers in this league who’ve completely schooled him this season.

 

This is it. It isn't a reaction to that loss. It isn't even a reaction to our precarious situation.

It's a reaction to peculiar managerial decisions, that even Pearson's staunchest defenders cannot explain. Weimann as RWB; King as CB; facing a big, strong, physical side and waiting until we were 0-2 down to bring on our strongest, most robust attacker. The cutting your own nose off decisions regarding HNM. The disparaging of the loan system, used to great effect by other Championship managers. And why restart a side that had failed against a mediocre Stoke against a burgeoning WBA? They say the definition of madness is doing the same thing twice and expecting different results. 

And TBH considering the way confidence has ebbed away from players who've been solid earlier in the season, I don't think Pearson's uncompromising manner is picking up morale in the squad. Players don't like losing games, but they looked unhappy throughout yesterday. 

Pearson talks a great talk about 'building a long-term project' here, but I've seen no evidence that he is doing that. I see evidence that what he's building, thanks to his idiosyncrasies and stubbornness, is a long-term mess. He's cut financial losses, I'll grant him that and that alone, but perhaps the CEO change was more critical there.

His mojo is lost and was last seen nearly a decade ago in the East Midlands. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Red-Robbo

[italian dave]

3 hours ago, Rob k said:

You can’t compare WBA (a parachute club) with us. 

I think the comparison (which is a fair one) is between the WBA and City teams we saw when we played them at the Hawthorns earlier in the season.

Parachute payments of not, they had the same squad then, so did we. They were absolutely shambolic. We were OK. The only thing that’s changed since then is they have a new manager, 

[italian dave]

45 minutes ago, tin said:

You mean compare the West Brom side that has proven quality players at this level (Furlong, Swift, Wallace to name three) who are all on big wages that we can’t afford to pay, with players who’ve been picked up from L1 and L2 (Sykes, Atkinson, Tanner to name three)? In no way is that irrelevant. 

But the point is that they had all this players in October - or whenever we played the, away. You still have to manage them to set up in a way that works to their strengths, and so on.

They have too 6 quality players, sure. We don’t. But we have a decent squad, decent individual players - certainly mid table at this level. 

[Robbored]

“Stability” is a word SL uses a lot when talking about City and largely why he was so patient with LJ for so long. If Nige was sacked it’s not just one man that goes but his backroom staff as well.

That would cause a massive upheaval and have a destabilising effect on the football club. I can’t see  SL panicking just yet.

[Rob k]

5 minutes ago, italian dave said:

But the point is that they had all this players in October - or whenever we played the, away. You still have to manage them to set up in a way that works to their strengths, and so on.

They have too 6 quality players, sure. We don’t. But we have a decent squad, decent individual players - certainly mid table at this level. 

I keep hearing we have a decent squad, bar Scott i can’t see many getting in a top 6 starting 11

[tin]

4 minutes ago, italian dave said:

But the point is that they had all this players in October - or whenever we played the, away. You still have to manage them to set up in a way that works to their strengths, and so on.

They have too 6 quality players, sure. We don’t. But we have a decent squad, decent individual players - certainly mid table at this level. 

I get that, Davide, but as you rightly say West Brom have considerably more quality in their ranks because parachute payments enable them to do so. When we played them in October, those quality players were coasting and they we caught them cold. That’s the Championship, it happens. Did anyone moan about that win? No. Did anyone moan when we beat Rotherham TWO games ago? No. But people are moaning because they changed manager and he’s getting a better tune out of those quality players and assists me the same would happen here, failing to acknowledge that we have nowhere near the quality to achieve a similar outcome. Compare Sykes with Wallace for example, poles apart in terms of quality.

Our season won’t be defined on a defeat to West Brom, it’ll rest on games against Cardiff, Huddersfield, Rotherham, Blackpool and co, plus whatever points we can pick up in between. But to give us a chance of that, Nige needs to pick players in their proper positions. What’s the realistic alternative? Euell? That’s the sort of replacement we’d get. Be careful what you wish for. 

[redsquirrel]

do the players still get appearance bonus? i can understand the massengo bit if so. 

[Redandproud]

The 38.51% of keep are gasheads I expect, they'd love for him to get us relagated ,

[Northern Red]

4 minutes ago, Red-Al said:

The 38.51% of keep are gasheads I expect, they'd love for him to get us relagated ,

Clown.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Northern Red

[Red-Robbo]

7 minutes ago, Rob k said:

I keep hearing we have a decent squad, bar Scott i can’t see many getting in a top 6 starting 11

 

If he plays like yesterday much longer, he would struggle to get in a top 6 conference side.

Let's hope the real Alex Scott returns pronto. 

[johnbytheriver]

WHERE HAVE ALL THE PODCASTS GONE?

[italian dave]

7 minutes ago, tin said:

I get that, Davide, but as you rightly say West Brom have considerably more quality in their ranks because parachute payments enable them to do so. When we played them in October, those quality players were coasting and they we caught them cold. That’s the Championship, it happens. Did anyone moan about that win? No. Did anyone moan when we beat Rotherham TWO games ago? No. But people are moaning because they changed manager and he’s getting a better tune out of those quality players and assists me the same would happen here, failing to acknowledge that we have nowhere near the quality to achieve a similar outcome. Compare Sykes with Wallace for example, poles apart in terms of quality.

Our season won’t be defined on a defeat to West Brom, it’ll rest on games against Cardiff, Huddersfield, Rotherham, Blackpool and co, plus whatever points we can pick up in between. But to give us a chance of that, Nige needs to pick players in their proper positions. What’s the realistic alternative? Euell? That’s the sort of replacement we’d get. Be careful what you wish for. 

Our win there wasn't a 'one off' when we were lucky to catch them on a bad day. They were playing dire football week in week out at the time. We spoke to their fans before the game and couldn't believe how despondent they were about their prospects generally.

As I've said repeatedly - I'm always hoping that whoever the City manager is they'll stay in post and achieve success. Whether and when they go is something Ive no control at all over so I try not to get too worked up about it! And who replaces them even more so! We all know it's entirely unpredictable anyway.

[hertsexile]

In the current football climate it is hard for any manager to succeed players on excessively high wage’s , agents asking(ripping off clubs) for bigger cuts of transfer fees. Clubs asking for high transfer fees for run of the mill players , FFP ! We are lucky that we have an owner who is credible and not Mickey Mouse like so many at other clubs in recent times. 
NP may not be working at the moment but the club was in an absolute mess following the Ashton years! Any changes are going to take time football management is a rollercoaster at the best of times many owners twist when they should have stuck. Seeing our academy produce some fine young players is a bonus.  
No team has a right to success as a supporter you have to ride the good times as well as the bad. 
 

[IAmNick]

2 hours ago, Kolsch said:

Nonsense.

 

Compare that WBA team to the one we beat earlier in the season. The new manager has come in and got the players well drilled and fully aware of their jobs and roles. Tactically, they were on another planet.
 

Them being a parachute team is completely irrelevant. I’m comparing NP to their manager and other managers in this league who’ve completely schooled him this season.

Completely disagree. I saw an interview before the game with their midfielder they bought for £18m for gods sake.

You have to compare the players. Were they under or overperforming when we met them earlier in the season? What about now?

If a manager takes hugely underperforming players compared to their expected levels, and makes them perform at their expected level (or just above!) he's not a miracle worker in my opinion. He's done what you'd expect. If they then beat a team who are also performing at their average but with worse players, that doesn't make him a better manager.

It doesn't excuse our crap performance yesterday which was well below what we should expect from our players, but it's ridiculous to simply look at performances and use that to compare managers in my opinion.

Them being a PP club means the expected level from their players is a lot higher. That's why people talk about managers doing well with the resources at their disposal - like Luton last year, even though Sheffield Utd finished a place higher.

[italian dave]

12 minutes ago, Rob k said:

I keep hearing we have a decent squad, bar Scott i can’t see many getting in a top 6 starting 11

Which is precisely why I said we don't have top 6 players! But I can see most starting in a comfortably mid table Championship side.

[Redandproud]

12 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Clown.

Why? Just giving my thoughts, after yesterday's game he must go, 

[Red-Robbo]

10 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Our win there wasn't a 'one off' when we were lucky to catch them on a bad day. They were playing dire football week in week out at the time. We spoke to their fans before the game and couldn't believe how despondent they were about their prospects generally.

As I've said repeatedly - I'm always hoping that whoever the City manager is they'll stay in post and achieve success. Whether and when they go is something Ive no control at all over so I try not to get too worked up about it! And who replaces them even more so! We all know it's entirely unpredictable anyway.

 

Well, they achieved success by changing manager - and we might as well.

Because some of the decisions Pearson is making recently are as bad as Steve Bruce's. 

[pillred]

1 hour ago, Rob k said:

Your talking rubbish if you think having 100 odd million over 3 years is irrelevant, this isn’t football manager, they have better players than us all over the pitch 

funny how you give no credit to NP for that result though isn’t it!!

I think what he is getting at is those same players under a different manager for whatever reason were going down by the looks of it, and under a new manager are suddenly playing like world beaters, it's not the money spent but how those players are set up, don't you think we could or should be doing better? I do and at the moment somebody else setting the team up and coaching them differently is the only option or we will sleepwalk our way to League one. I can't see where the next win is going to come from at the moment.

Edited December 27, 2022 by pillred
Punctuation.

[italian dave]

7 hours ago, Olé said:

Keep - there is a massive overreaction to two poor performances at home either side of Xmas for which mistakes by individuals have done for us.

 

This season there have been 5 unacceptable performances - Birmingham and Reading away in October, Lincoln in November and then these two.

What they all have in common is comically bad defending and individual mistakes, for a team that otherwise if it defends well, can be competitive.

We've only lost 1 match this season when conceding no more than one goal - against a very good Sheff Utd team - so if we stay tight we are fine.

When we've sacked managers (i.e. Holden, LJ) it is because there was no longer clear direction and the teams looked confused and disorganised.

It's nonsense to say that's where we are now - it is very obvious how we are trying to play, we are simply underperforming as a squad of players.

 

Up to and including losing away at Norwich and Burnley we were playing among the best football I can remember us playing in the Championship.

We play a 3-5-2 which is compact out of possession and goes direct on the counter to spring players down the channel and crosses into the box.

We stay solid, but try to take the game to opponents early to nick a goal (which is why we're still even after yesterday top 3 in the division at HT).

What has happened over Xmas since 1-0 up vs Stoke is we've made a series of calamitous defender/keeper cock ups (or Naismith when pressed).

At home making big mistakes, confidence drains rapidly to the point our direct style is slow and laboured (5 sideways passes then overhit it long).

 

None of this is a manager who doesn't know how to turn it round, a manager who has lost the dressing room, and all that crap we've seen before.

Remember when LJ or Holden football was at its worst, it was zero shots and no idea what our style of play is or what we're hoping to try and do.

Anyone who claims that's the case now is telling porkies. The instructions and approach is clear (and was evident from how we play from kick off).

We've got players who need to cut out basic errors that put us on the back foot. Brum/Reading at set pieces. Stoke/WBA defender/keeper comms.

Players need to take some effin responsibility. I'm not a fan of Pearson's spiky deflective interviews, but is he really that wrong with what he says? 

Good post Ole. Just one comment on the specific points you make - yes it is obvious that we have a way we're trying to play - problem is that it's obvious to our opponents too! And it's fairly one-dimensional, and we don't have a plan B, which is why players become slow and laboured and, I'd argue, start looking confused and disorganised even now.

But one more general point: what concerns me is that whilst all of these may be good and valid points, a) we're two points from the bottom 3, and b) you could have written this post word for word a year ago. We're not progressing. Nothing's changing. We were fortunate that points deductions for others hid our true position last year. We're in the same position now, only its a true reflection.

Edited December 27, 2022 by italian dave

[Northern Red]

19 minutes ago, Red-Al said:

Why? Just giving my thoughts, after yesterday's game he must go, 

No problem with you saying you want him out, that's fine.

Saying that anyone who wants him to stay is a gashead isn't.

 

[Atticus]

2 hours ago, 22A said:

Agreed, but are certain players also just not good enough?

Well, the players he picking in the positions he's playing them certainly aren't seeming to be.

[Rob k]

7 minutes ago, pillred said:

I think what he is getting at is those same players under a different manager for whatever reason were going down by the looks of it, and under a new manager are suddenly playing like world beaters, it's not the money spent but how those players are set up, don't you think we could or should be doing better? I do and at the moment somebody else setting the team up and coaching them differently is the only option or we will sleepwalk our way to League one. I can't see where the next win is going to come from at the moment.

We could be 10pts adrift with another manager, we’re just very inconsistent, we have a midfield that, imo, bar Scott if you count him as a midfielder, not a single one would get in to any team In this division. They dont create and they don’t protect. Change the manager all you want but imo not much will change as the players ain’t good enough overall, especially in our midfied

What i will say if they are considering sacking NP, and I’m sure they are, then do it now and give the new bloke whatever budget there is to spend. No point waiting until end Of Jan to do it

[maxjak]

41 minutes ago, johnbytheriver said:

WHERE HAVE ALL THE PODCASTS GONE?

The answer my friend is blowing in the wind

[And Its Smith]

5 minutes ago, Rob k said:

We could be 10pts adrift with another manager, we’re just very inconsistent, we have a midfield that, imo, bar Scott if you count him as a midfielder, not a single one would get in to any team In this division. They dont create and they don’t protect. Change the manager all you want but imo not much will change as the players ain’t good enough overall, especially in our midfied

What i will say if they are considering sacking NP, and I’m sure they are, then do it now and give the new bloke whatever budget there is to spend. No point waiting until end Of Jan to do it

We could be mid table with another manager 

[IAmNick]

22 minutes ago, pillred said:

I think what he is getting at is those same players under a different manager for whatever reason were going down by the looks of it, and under a new manager are suddenly playing like world beaters, it's not the money spent but how those players are set up, don't you think we could or should be doing better? I do and at the moment somebody else setting the team up and coaching them differently is the only option or we will sleepwalk our way to League one. I can't see where the next win is going to come from at the moment.

They're not playing like world beaters though are they, they've had a good run but I thought they looked pretty meh yesterday personally. From players of the quality they have that's the minimum you might reasonably expect.

I think they were hugely underperforming before, rather than hugely overperforming now due to some managerial miracle.

 

[tin]

21 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Good post Ole. Just one comment on the specific points you make - yes it is obvious that we have a way we're trying to play - problem is that it's obvious to our opponents too! And it's fairly one-dimensional, and we don't have a plan B, which is why players become slow and laboured and, I'd argue, start looking confused and disorganised even now.

But one more general point: what concerns me is that whilst all of these may be good and valid points, a) we're two points from the bottom 3, and b) you could have written this post word for word a year ago. We're not progressing. Nothing's changing. We were fortunate that points deductions for others hid our true position last year. We're in the same position now, only its a true reflection.

In what way were we “fortunate that a points deduction did for others and hid our true position”? Without the 21 points Derby were deducted, they’d have finished one place above us on goal difference. We’d have finished one place lower, Reading would’ve gone down, and there would still have been 14 points between us and the bottom three with a host of clubs in between.

Edited December 27, 2022 by tin

[Northern Red]

1 minute ago, tin said:

In what way were we “fortunate that a points deduction did for others and hid our true position”? Without the 21 points Derby were deducted, they’d have finished one place above us on goal difference. We’d have finished one place lower, Reading would’ve gone down, and there would still have been 14 points between us and the bottom three with a host of clubs in between.

And without wishing to veer off-topic, the reasons those points deductions were in place is because those clubs were mismanaged. Not sure why that should be held against us.

[tin]

Just now, Northern Red said:

And without wishing to veer off-topic, the reasons those points deductions were in place is because those clubs were mismanaged. Not sure why that should be held against us.

Exactly.

[lenred]

39 minutes ago, Red-Al said:

Why? Just giving my thoughts, after yesterday's game he must go, 

Because calling fellow supporters who maybe don’t agree with you for whatever reason ‘Gasheads’ is sad as **ck. Hope that clears it up for you. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by lenred

[Kolsch]

2 hours ago, Rob k said:

Your talking rubbish if you think having 100 odd million over 3 years is irrelevant, this isn’t football manager, they have better players than us all over the pitch 

funny how you give no credit to NP for that result though isn’t it!!

Completely missing my point.

 

I couldn’t care less about their money. For the record, we have one of the highest wage budgets in the league though.

 

What I’m saying is in comparison to WBA we looked tactically inferior, under coached and to be Frank - completely clueless.

I’d bet my mortgage on us not doing anything in training on shape. WBA players all knew where to be, what positions to take. Our lot looked like they were winging it.

I lost count on the number of times our defenders had the ball and no midfielders were showing or they didn’t know who to play it too.

 

You only had to look at last season when we kept conceding last minute goals. Would a good manager allow that to happen or would they have the team working on game management in training to ensure the team see out games?

He has to go.

[Red-Robbo]

27 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

No problem with you saying you want him out, that's fine.

Saying that anyone who wants him to stay is a gashead isn't.

 

 

Agreed. Just have a different way of looking at things.  And I agree that it's a gamble, a leap-in-the-dark appointing a new man. 

For me, reaching the point where I lost faith in Nigel Pearson is a bit like the time in a marriage where you finally are honest to yourself and say "this isn't working". You can stay and be unhappy, or you can face the dangerous uncertainty of being single again. Plus, there are lots of long-term commitments and financial implications to consider.  It is tough to abandon something you once so supported. 

But the tide has turned for me and once you make that leap you can't fall back in love with Pearson* no matter whether he romances you with a sexy away win somewhere. The scales fall from your eyes and you see the bullshit, the arrogance and unpleasantness of some of his behaviour and statements. 

One of the few joys about being a City fan is no matter how poorly we perform  there is the ugly runt down the road being massively more embarrassing than we are. Under Pearson I'm not sure we will still be minding the gap, nor even am I sure a L1 Pearson side would beat the Gas. A truly horrifying prospect.  

 

 

 

* not literally, obvs

[Rob k]

6 minutes ago, Kolsch said:

Completely missing my point.

 

I couldn’t care less about their money. For the record, we have one of the highest wage budgets in the league though.

 

What I’m saying is in comparison to WBA we looked tactically inferior, under coached and to be Frank - completely clueless.

I’d bet my mortgage on us not doing anything in training on shape. WBA players all knew where to be, what positions to take. Our lot looked like they were winging it.

I lost count on the number of times our defenders had the ball and no midfielders were showing or they didn’t know who to play it too.

 

You only had to look at last season when we kept conceding last minute goals. Would a good manager allow that to happen or would they have the team working on game management in training to ensure the team see out games?

He has to go.

About 10th highest which this year includes wages for 

Bentley, Kalas, Palmer, JD, Wells, none of those bought here by NP and 1 started yesterday who’s just agreed a new contract on presumably lower money. 
We agree on the midfield, it’s a disaster area. 

[italian dave]

35 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

And without wishing to veer off-topic, the reasons those points deductions were in place is because those clubs were mismanaged. Not sure why that should be held against us.

 

35 minutes ago, tin said:

Exactly.

I’m not sure why you think I’ve said anything that suggests other teams points deductions should be “held against us”?  I’ve said nothing of the sort.

I’m simply making the point that we’re in the same position now as we were last season. There was a whole thread on the subject after the Stoke game. Same games played. Same points. (Not sure if yesterday altered that). 

It felt less like we were in a relegation battle because of Derby and Reading (at the time). But we have got the same return from the same games and we were saying (or Ole could have been saying) the same things. We haven’t progressed.

That’s all. 

[DaveInSA]

Its very hard making a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

And that is where we are. I think Pearson is a little more clever and astute than posters on here give him credit for.

He's working out who to keep and who to bin. He's done it methodically and systematically.

e.g. He has said that we can't play with 4 at the back because we don't have the talent for it. We zonal mark because our defenders don't have the ability to track runners.

He knows what the problems are and he's testing the players. I rate that some of them don't like it. Good. The spineless loser mentality must be rooted out of this club, once and for all.

He won't be fired. He'll be given the January window. And then what happens happens.

[Bris Red]

20 hours ago, The Coach said:

I wouldn’t even vote. The damage is already too much from previous running of the club under Ashton.

If Pearson went. Who would actually improve things with 0 budget to play with? I don’t think there is one.

Indeed. The damage is far too deep rooted at the football club now IMO. A new manager may be able to get marginally better performances out of the players in the short term but many just aren’t good enough at this level.

Anyone coming in would need funds to freshen things up and as we all know we are absolutely skint. 

It’s a depressing states of affairs to be honest but the Mark Ashton era has genuinely set us back decades.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Bris Red

[Redandproud]

1 hour ago, lenred said:

Because calling fellow supporters who maybe don’t agree with you for whatever reason ‘Gasheads’ is sad as **ck. Hope that clears it up for you. 

Because we do get comments on here from gasheads when times are bad,

[Redandproud]

1 hour ago, Northern Red said:

No problem with you saying you want him out, that's fine.

Saying that anyone who wants him to stay is a gashead isn't.

 

As previously stated ,we do get gasheads on here making statements

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

How can he not at least try a back 4?  We’ve had a shocking defence for nearly 2 years under his tenure all whilst playing a back 5.  Does he seriously think a back 4 will be any worse?  Crazy to keep on picking the same kind of team 

And when he played a back four at the start of last season, when we generally kept it tight, a lot fans wanted it gone because WBs would be more exciting.

I do agree Dave, he needs to try it…but I think he is worried about the midfield balance.

[Olé]

2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

It's a reaction to peculiar managerial decisions, that even Pearson's staunchest defenders cannot explain. Weimann as RWB; King as CB; facing a big, strong, physical side and waiting until we were 0-2 down to bring on our strongest, most robust attacker. The cutting your own nose off decisions regarding HNM. The disparaging of the loan system, used to great effect by other Championship managers. And why restart a side that had failed against a mediocre Stoke against a burgeoning WBA? They say the definition of madness is doing the same thing twice and expecting different results.

Your and my views historically have seemed to be fairly aligned so I'm going to take this one on as I'm just not seeing this as the same magnitude of compounded failure and disaster that clearly you and many others are (and some others are even going as far as to wheel out the fatal "players look clueless". "don't know what we're trying to do" which might have been a feature towards the end with LJ/DH but is nonsense to say is a feature now - we're making some shocking mistakes but it's ridiculous to say it isn't clear what our formation or style is, or that the players do not understand what their jobs are. They do.)

But in respect of your points regarding peculiar decisions - 

• Weimann at RWB. Frustrating but let's not forget he played there and scored in wins last season; this season goal scoring via Conway and Wells has NOT been a problem for us, but at RWB we've had Sykes who briefly started the season well but has deteriorated into a lower division player who is well out of his depth; Wilson is injured; and Tanner NP doesn't believe is ready yet and clearly doesn't have qualities going forward that Weimann offers. This is best player not best position. Add into this in the 3-5-2 when we need to press as well as go compact without the ball, fitness is so key and Weimann is. 
• King at CB. Like most people I am not a fan but it is indisputable we are without Kalas, we lost both Naismith and Atkinson to injury, so he had to come into the equation - it's only the persistence with him that is questionable. But the story doing the rounds on Atkinson's delayed return / trust relates to (allegedly) breaching the club's Covid policy and bringing the infection into the squad as a result. Whether true or not who knows, but shows that trust isn't just about performances. Klose I have no idea, that is a mystery, I assume he has fitness issues as I'm struggling with the idea NP is doing this deliberately.
• HNM. I'm someone who enjoyed some of his breakout performances and wanted him to be a success, but others have long since highlighted his flaws and ability to give possession away in the worst positions, I think had he signed a deal off the back of playing an important role when we were on top form through the Cardiff etc games, think he could have settled into a first team role, but not doing so, then being an absolute mess away at Birmingham when we were abysmal, probably did for him. And if you have other midfielders even from the academy, what's the point of persisting with someone who wants out.
• Loans. For me at least, NP's explanation of this has always made sense and I thought he covered it very eloquently on one of those feature length Geoff Twentyman interviews regarding squad culture.

None of these to me are clear cut or suggest NP doesn't know what he's doing. You can make a good case for why he's taken every one of the above decisions, and if baked into each of them is setting an example and trying to make other players realise what is required, then I'm all for it. He hasn't been blessed with much ready-made Championship recruitment, if he's trying to enforce standards on invariably inexperienced and new-to-the-division players then - good.  Not playing 3 "ones for the future" he signed until he can rely on them isn't that unusual and a far cry from LJ chopping and changing 20 £1m+ signings. 

It seems to me NP isn't going to win friends when things are going against him because his interviews come across as arrogant and dismissive. But then we all found a way to be triggered by each of the interviewing styles of the last several managers who got sacked, so it's all a bit self fulfilling. Personally while I respect others frustrations, I'm not engaging in yet another pile on - as we've got to trust someone to build through the transition. NP has so far avoided the death spiral of LJ losing runs and has turned around patches of bad form. I see very little in what he says that is inconsistent with what we need to do to improve.

[Selred]

1 hour ago, DaveInSA said:

Its very hard making a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

And that is where we are. I think Pearson is a little more clever and astute than posters on here give him credit for.

He's working out who to keep and who to bin. He's done it methodically and systematically.

e.g. He has said that we can't play with 4 at the back because we don't have the talent for it. We zonal mark because our defenders don't have the ability to track runners.

He knows what the problems are and he's testing the players. I rate that some of them don't like it. Good. The spineless loser mentality must be rooted out of this club, once and for all.

He won't be fired. He'll be given the January window. And then what happens happens.

I think you’re giving him far too much credit. We haven’t got the players to play 5 at the back, otherwise we’d not have a striker and a midfielder there, but he still stubbornly sticks with it.

[megansdad]

Ole - a really good post. I think we are making mistakes when on top in games that are proving very costly. Against Stoke we could have been 2 up at half time and probably should have been - yesterday we could easily have been level. Chances are being created and some good football is being played. Scott looks a little jaded to me and could not seem to hold the ball yesterday. Hopefully NP has plans for the January window which will prove successful! 

[eardun]

7 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

He’s just saying that he is not cowered by the boo boys. It won’t influence how he works. He has broad shoulders. 

Agree. Best for everyone to read it in full context. Nothing to see here and certainly not disrespectful to us as some fans have complained. Quite funny really - fans boo Pearson and then don’t like it when he points out that it has no effect on him! 

Every word from Nigel Pearson on Bristol City fan criticism, confidence, transfers and loans - Bristol Live

[Davefevs]

Every word from Nigel Pearson on Bristol City fan criticism, confidence, transfers and loans

Every word from the manager's written press post-match interview following the defeat at home to West Brom

What were your thoughts on the performance, any complaints with the result?

No, not really. No Complaints. We've had chances and not taken them and they're a really good side. Carlos has got the best out of that group of players now so disappointing for us.

What were the thoughts on the second-half performance and the lack of chances created specifically?

In the first half we've conceded another poor goal but worked very hard to get back into it. We finished the first half very well and they dominated in the second half. Because they adopted a defensive sort of shape where they were going to be deep to play those balls in behind. It was difficult for us to break them down.

Do you feel let down by the performances of your players today and their reaction?

No, not at all. The reaction of what?

The reaction to the second-half performance and the fact that West Brom looked so comfortable.

Do you not think that is because are a very good side?

Yes, but I think Bristol City are a good side too.

I don't feel let down by the players at all.

Is that the most difficult or testing day for you as manager of Bristol City?

No, not really. If you're alluding to the reaction from our fans then that's part of football, I'm afraid. Our young players have really only experienced the positive aspects of football so far. What it does, it creates a situation where it will test very much the resolve of who's onside and who's not. Simple as that.

Our fans are entitled to their opinions but what is important is that they stay behind their team. It's never going to be beneficial to have a negative reaction. If they want to have a go at me, they can have a go at me. It's important our team stays together, it's as simple as that.

Do you think the reaction by the supporters was justified?

In what sense?

The reaction towards you was hostile at the end.

Yea but I've had that before. I've had that at some point in every club I've been at. People have their opinions and they can do what they want. It's fine.

Does it hurt you when you hear chants like that?

I think what's important to recognise is that I know exactly the job that I've got to do here so I keep it in context. Football matches are emotional. If people want to vent their frustrations, I'd rather they do it at me and not the players. It doesn't help the players. It's not beneficial towards the players.

Do you think the concerns about relegation at the moment are justified and should fans be concerned? Is this squad of players good enough to be clear of that?

I think we will be fine but the bottom line is that I've been brought here to do a job. Affecting change is something which makes people feel uncomfortable. It is what it is.

How can you pick them up from here because as you said, there's players in this side who haven't experienced an atmosphere like that?

We'll see how we are tomorrow because the bottom line is this, how people see the game compared to or how they feel emotionally about it, I try and keep things in context. We played against a side who were better than us today. In the first half, in particular, we caused them problems.

How people view the game is up to them. I have to keep a more pragmatic view of it. That's my job. I'm a football manager, I'm not a football fan. I'm a football manager.

Is there a danger that this result can damage confidence?

Yea, it could do. Yea, could do.

The key thing is that you've got young players in the side and you've brought a lot of them in yourself, but the worry is isn't it they hear that from the stands and people like Alex Scott won't be able to express themselves as confidently when things like that are going on?

Look, I don't want to confuse the two issues. The players are in there because they are good enough. They are our best players and so the question is, how do we approach January? Can we freshen things up or not? The players that we have, they have to be good enough so I don't know whether people actually like hearing the reality of our situation. Maybe there are a few frustrations with that in terms of being able to freshen the squad.

Look, for me, it's just a very simple situation and that is, we as a football club need to decide whether we can or cannot strengthen in January and if we can, we'll try and do it in the best way possible without affecting our financial fair play scenario.

I'm sorry not to engage on a level of emotion which conflicts with our fanbase. People have had things to say today and they're entitled to their opinions. If they're going to have a go I'd rather they have a go at the players because the players need the support of the fans.

What is the very latest, do you expect to have money to spend or not?

It’s not about having money to spend it’s how we release money so we might have to trade. It means players go out to free up money to offset the wages, it’s more about that. If there is money to spend that’s a different situation.

What we must not do is get into a situation where there’s an air of panic that 'oh dear things aren’t going well we need to splash out' and then we fall foul of the financial fair play. My job is very much to try and keep a steady hand on it and whether things go badly today or not, the season of goodwill it certainly isn’t today and that’s the bottom line.

A lot of damage was done before you came in as well... 

I’m not interested in apportioning blame, what I’m interested in, and I just said to some of the staff at West Brom, the easy thing to do is pat yourself on the back when things are going well. You earn your corn when things aren’t going well so when people start to question what we’re trying to do here they need somebody to have a go at.

So, if they’re going to have a go at me that’s fine but the bottom line is we still need to get ourselves out of the situation that we’re in and that’s not just this season and where we are in the league. I’m talking about the bigger picture of what we’re trying to do at the football club. So, if people want to express their displeasure or whatever, fine. They’re entitled to do it, but it doesn’t really help the team.

Going into January, are you as confident as ever knowing the job that has to be done? 

Yeah, there are plenty of good things yeah. So today my first reflection is, ‘they’re a good side.’ It’s not about picking the bones out of that, you can always do that with your own side, but today we came up against a side who are actually, they’re on 32 points now.

They’re actually now getting the best out of their own players, but when we played them at their place, we beat them 2-0 comfortably on the night because they had players that were coasting, and they weren’t getting the best out of their players, so it depends how you want to look at it. It depends on what the criteria it’s based on. If it’s about having a go at one person, if that’s me, fine. It doesn’t bother me; I’ve been booed off bigger stadiums.

I always try to look at the bigger picture Nigel and the bigger picture is still important...

The bigger picture is important, but we need to start winning games. That’s clear. I’m not getting away from that.

One of the criticisms from the stands Nigel was the square pegs in round holes, playing Weimann at wing-back how do you answer that to the fans? 

What do you mean square pegs in round holes? Instead of who?

I suppose Tanner on the bench 

Yeah, Tanner is a right-back. Mark Sykes has played there and who else? That’s one player Andi Weimann has scored goals from there. 

Andy King at centre-back? 

Because the other players haven’t been up to it recently. We had all this last week and if it’s about Rob Atkinson the same thing applies, he needs to respond. I see them every day, you don’t.

How King after his injury? 

I don’t know. But I thought Rob did okay when he went on apart from a couple of occasions.

And Chris Martin at the moment?

Not in the squad, yeah. But that happens to a lot of players. Choose the squad for the day, but players are still in the squad even if they’re not involved. Maybe the question needs to be can we go out then and strengthen in the areas we’re weak? I think that’s a better question. The players that are playing are the ones that are showing the most in training, so that’s the answer to your question.

What would you like to do in January ideally? 

We need to strengthen at the back is the priority. 

Just one central defender? 

I didn’t say that. We need to strengthen at the back, depending on what we can do.

How difficult is it to trade in this climate as it’s a bit of an unknown quantity after the pandemic with less money? 

I think it depends on whether, if you’re talking about if players move who are on big money in terms of wages, then that could free it up to bring a couple in for one. But again, the availability is a big thing. We are exploring what we could do in the loan market but again all those types of questions there are more variables because there are more people involved.

Whether you can do a loan deal, whether it’s affordable, whether it’s a deal that can be done on the wages all those types of things are quite complex. We’ll try to do some business, but we’ll see what happens.

 

[cidercity1987]

Nige is building a proper club

Results are not really the most super important judgment at the moment

As long as we don't get relegated 

[Red-Robbo]

49 minutes ago, Olé said:

 

• Weimann at RWB. Frustrating but let's not forget he played there and scored in wins last season; this season goal scoring via Conway and Wells has NOT been a problem for us, but at RWB we've had Sykes who briefly started the season well but has deteriorated into a lower division player who is well out of his depth; Wilson is injured; and Tanner NP doesn't believe is ready yet and clearly doesn't have qualities going forward that Weimann offers. This is best player not best position. Add into this in the 3-5-2 when we need to press as well as go compact without the ball, fitness is so key and Weimann is. 
• King at CB. Like most people I am not a fan but it is indisputable we are without Kalas, we lost both Naismith and Atkinson to injury, so he had to come into the equation - it's only the persistence with him that is questionable. But the story doing the rounds on Atkinson's delayed return / trust relates to (allegedly) breaching the club's Covid policy and bringing the infection into the squad as a result. Whether true or not who knows, but shows that trust isn't just about performances. Klose I have no idea, that is a mystery, I assume he has fitness issues as I'm struggling with the idea NP is doing this deliberately.
• HNM. I'm someone who enjoyed some of his breakout performances and wanted him to be a success, but others have long since highlighted his flaws and ability to give possession away in the worst positions, I think had he signed a deal off the back of playing an important role when we were on top form through the Cardiff etc games, think he could have settled into a first team role, but not doing so, then being an absolute mess away at Birmingham when we were abysmal, probably did for him. And if you have other midfielders even from the academy, what's the point of persisting with someone who wants out.
• Loans. For me at least, NP's explanation of this has always made sense and I thought he covered it very eloquently on one of those feature length Geoff Twentyman interviews regarding squad culture.

None of these to me are clear cut or suggest NP doesn't know what he's doing. You can make a good case for why he's taken every one of the above decisions, and if baked into each of them is setting an example and trying to make other players realise what is required, then I'm all for it. He hasn't been blessed with much ready-made Championship recruitment, if he's trying to enforce standards on invariably inexperienced and new-to-the-division players then - good.  Not playing 3 "ones for the future" he signed until he can rely on them isn't that unusual and a far cry from LJ chopping and changing 20 £1m+ signings. 

It seems to me NP isn't going to win friends when things are going against him because his interviews come across as arrogant and dismissive. But then we all found a way to be triggered by each of the interviewing styles of the last several managers who got sacked, so it's all a bit self fulfilling. Personally while I respect others frustrations, I'm not engaging in yet another pile on - as we've got to trust someone to build through the transition. NP has so far avoided the death spiral of LJ losing runs and has turned around patches of bad form. I see very little in what he says that is inconsistent with what we need to do to improve.

 

Pt 1: Let's be honest: we aren't a big or physical side. West Brom are, and with 5ft 8 Nakhi Wells effectively marked out by a (very good) man-mountain, we only had Conway's physicality to rely on. For me, Weimann's speed and poacher's instinct had to be put forward where he's got most of his goals. Yes, he can play RWB - unlike many forwards, he has defensive ability - but swap Wells' declining speed and positioning, for Weimann's. Have Antoine starting as a battering ram, holding balls for AW to run on to. Wells would make an excellent second half sub in such a game.  Addendum: Syksey did well when he came on versus Stoke. Play according to matchday form.

Pt2: Because he knows Andy King of old, he trusts Andy King and because of that - and the fact Kingy is a mid-30s married man he can probably relate to better than youngsters - he was left in a position he should not have been made to do once Atkinson and/or Klose were available. The fact he got injured doing it, just shows its folly. I'm all for imposing squad discipline BTW but not if it costs us points. Other ways to do that. 

Pt3: Of course, he has flaws, but in this one particular game you wanted someone to take the ball away from the midfield area that was a happy hunting ground for the Baggies.  Get it in their half and maybe win a free kick. Han can do that. He was custom-made for the role when Scott and Williams offered nothing. Ultimately, if all he offered was fresh legs, he could be no worse!  I'm of the opinion that Massengo might meet the right coach and fit into the right team and he will become the real deal. Just a hunch, mind you. 

Pt4: I think the vast majority of managers not working with PP millions utilise loans and as most in the Championship are above us, often with loanees as crucial parts of their team's equation, they seem to work for them without destroying the team's equilibrium or cohesion. Imagine foregoing Tammy Abraham or Steven Caulker. Or Andy Cole!

I don't dispute a lot of your post and it isn't a case of me thinking we're doomed with Pearson.  It's just I can't see any progression, We seem less able to compete with good teams than under Holden, and although Nigel faces particular money challenges, so do others, more successful others.  If NP keeps us up this season, I foresee more of the same - or worse. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Red-Robbo

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Every word from Nigel Pearson on Bristol City fan criticism, confidence, transfers and loans

Every word from the manager's written press post-match interview following the defeat at home to West Brom

What were your thoughts on the performance, any complaints with the result?

No, not really. No Complaints. We've had chances and not taken them and they're a really good side. Carlos has got the best out of that group of players now so disappointing for us.

What were the thoughts on the second-half performance and the lack of chances created specifically?

In the first half we've conceded another poor goal but worked very hard to get back into it. We finished the first half very well and they dominated in the second half. Because they adopted a defensive sort of shape where they were going to be deep to play those balls in behind. It was difficult for us to break them down.

Do you feel let down by the performances of your players today and their reaction?

No, not at all. The reaction of what?

The reaction to the second-half performance and the fact that West Brom looked so comfortable.

Do you not think that is because are a very good side?

Yes, but I think Bristol City are a good side too.

I don't feel let down by the players at all.

Is that the most difficult or testing day for you as manager of Bristol City?

No, not really. If you're alluding to the reaction from our fans then that's part of football, I'm afraid. Our young players have really only experienced the positive aspects of football so far. What it does, it creates a situation where it will test very much the resolve of who's onside and who's not. Simple as that.

Our fans are entitled to their opinions but what is important is that they stay behind their team. It's never going to be beneficial to have a negative reaction. If they want to have a go at me, they can have a go at me. It's important our team stays together, it's as simple as that.

Do you think the reaction by the supporters was justified?

In what sense?

The reaction towards you was hostile at the end.

Yea but I've had that before. I've had that at some point in every club I've been at. People have their opinions and they can do what they want. It's fine.

Does it hurt you when you hear chants like that?

I think what's important to recognise is that I know exactly the job that I've got to do here so I keep it in context. Football matches are emotional. If people want to vent their frustrations, I'd rather they do it at me and not the players. It doesn't help the players. It's not beneficial towards the players.

Do you think the concerns about relegation at the moment are justified and should fans be concerned? Is this squad of players good enough to be clear of that?

I think we will be fine but the bottom line is that I've been brought here to do a job. Affecting change is something which makes people feel uncomfortable. It is what it is.

How can you pick them up from here because as you said, there's players in this side who haven't experienced an atmosphere like that?

We'll see how we are tomorrow because the bottom line is this, how people see the game compared to or how they feel emotionally about it, I try and keep things in context. We played against a side who were better than us today. In the first half, in particular, we caused them problems.

How people view the game is up to them. I have to keep a more pragmatic view of it. That's my job. I'm a football manager, I'm not a football fan. I'm a football manager.

Is there a danger that this result can damage confidence?

Yea, it could do. Yea, could do.

The key thing is that you've got young players in the side and you've brought a lot of them in yourself, but the worry is isn't it they hear that from the stands and people like Alex Scott won't be able to express themselves as confidently when things like that are going on?

Look, I don't want to confuse the two issues. The players are in there because they are good enough. They are our best players and so the question is, how do we approach January? Can we freshen things up or not? The players that we have, they have to be good enough so I don't know whether people actually like hearing the reality of our situation. Maybe there are a few frustrations with that in terms of being able to freshen the squad.

Look, for me, it's just a very simple situation and that is, we as a football club need to decide whether we can or cannot strengthen in January and if we can, we'll try and do it in the best way possible without affecting our financial fair play scenario.

I'm sorry not to engage on a level of emotion which conflicts with our fanbase. People have had things to say today and they're entitled to their opinions. If they're going to have a go I'd rather they have a go at the players because the players need the support of the fans.

What is the very latest, do you expect to have money to spend or not?

It’s not about having money to spend it’s how we release money so we might have to trade. It means players go out to free up money to offset the wages, it’s more about that. If there is money to spend that’s a different situation.

What we must not do is get into a situation where there’s an air of panic that 'oh dear things aren’t going well we need to splash out' and then we fall foul of the financial fair play. My job is very much to try and keep a steady hand on it and whether things go badly today or not, the season of goodwill it certainly isn’t today and that’s the bottom line.

A lot of damage was done before you came in as well... 

I’m not interested in apportioning blame, what I’m interested in, and I just said to some of the staff at West Brom, the easy thing to do is pat yourself on the back when things are going well. You earn your corn when things aren’t going well so when people start to question what we’re trying to do here they need somebody to have a go at.

So, if they’re going to have a go at me that’s fine but the bottom line is we still need to get ourselves out of the situation that we’re in and that’s not just this season and where we are in the league. I’m talking about the bigger picture of what we’re trying to do at the football club. So, if people want to express their displeasure or whatever, fine. They’re entitled to do it, but it doesn’t really help the team.

Going into January, are you as confident as ever knowing the job that has to be done? 

Yeah, there are plenty of good things yeah. So today my first reflection is, ‘they’re a good side.’ It’s not about picking the bones out of that, you can always do that with your own side, but today we came up against a side who are actually, they’re on 32 points now.

They’re actually now getting the best out of their own players, but when we played them at their place, we beat them 2-0 comfortably on the night because they had players that were coasting, and they weren’t getting the best out of their players, so it depends how you want to look at it. It depends on what the criteria it’s based on. If it’s about having a go at one person, if that’s me, fine. It doesn’t bother me; I’ve been booed off bigger stadiums.

I always try to look at the bigger picture Nigel and the bigger picture is still important...

The bigger picture is important, but we need to start winning games. That’s clear. I’m not getting away from that.

One of the criticisms from the stands Nigel was the square pegs in round holes, playing Weimann at wing-back how do you answer that to the fans? 

What do you mean square pegs in round holes? Instead of who?

I suppose Tanner on the bench 

Yeah, Tanner is a right-back. Mark Sykes has played there and who else? That’s one player Andi Weimann has scored goals from there. 

Andy King at centre-back? 

Because the other players haven’t been up to it recently. We had all this last week and if it’s about Rob Atkinson the same thing applies, he needs to respond. I see them every day, you don’t.

How King after his injury? 

I don’t know. But I thought Rob did okay when he went on apart from a couple of occasions.

And Chris Martin at the moment?

Not in the squad, yeah. But that happens to a lot of players. Choose the squad for the day, but players are still in the squad even if they’re not involved. Maybe the question needs to be can we go out then and strengthen in the areas we’re weak? I think that’s a better question. The players that are playing are the ones that are showing the most in training, so that’s the answer to your question.

What would you like to do in January ideally? 

We need to strengthen at the back is the priority. 

Just one central defender? 

I didn’t say that. We need to strengthen at the back, depending on what we can do.

How difficult is it to trade in this climate as it’s a bit of an unknown quantity after the pandemic with less money? 

I think it depends on whether, if you’re talking about if players move who are on big money in terms of wages, then that could free it up to bring a couple in for one. But again, the availability is a big thing. We are exploring what we could do in the loan market but again all those types of questions there are more variables because there are more people involved.

Whether you can do a loan deal, whether it’s affordable, whether it’s a deal that can be done on the wages all those types of things are quite complex. We’ll try to do some business, but we’ll see what happens.

 

@Mr Popodopolous

[Olé]

2 hours ago, italian dave said:

you could have written this post word for word a year ago. We're not progressing. Nothing's changing

Not sure I agree! Our run prior to the international break was the most convincing I've seen us play in a long time at this level and was an elevation (I thought) of what NP was trying to do.

• Last season we started okay and hit 8th place by late September (P9 W3 D4 L2 GF11 GA10).
• This season in a similar period we peaked at 3rd after Blackburn (P8 W4 D2 L2 GF16 GA11).

The latter (significantly improved) was done without Kalas, Baker and Benarous (injured), O'Dowda, Palmer, Bakinson (off wage bill) and Martin (bit part), but with Tommy Conway (20) and perceptibly unproven Championship players like Sykes and Vyner (and a rejuvenated Wells). Even after losing the next two to promotion favourites (Norwich, Burnley) we looked convincing and were still top ten.

In other words we were doing more with less this season and with a clear identity. That is progression. That is change. 

If I take the Norwich and Burnley games out (again, anyone who went to them - and I know you will have done - will have seen us give both teams a really good game), then our record SINCE the international break, is as follows: P14 W3 D4 L7 GF12 GA18. Absolutely not good enough, but let's look at the defeats:

• 1-2 (H) to QPR - two early goals conceded to a form side
• 0-3 (A) to Birmingham - absolutely calamitous from 3 set pieces
• 1-2 (H) to Millwall - mistake by O'Leary for winner
• 0-2 (A) to Reading - conceded opener from another set piece
• 0-1 (H) to Sheff Utd - mistake by Vyner/Tanner
• 1-2 (H) to Stoke - mistakes by King/O'Leary, King/James 
• 0-2 (H) to West Brom - mistakes by O'Leary/Vyner, Naismith

7 defeats and 18 conceded and only one defeat (QPR) not down to our players making simple mistakes or failing at set pieces. 10/18 goals out and out mistakes by City players. 6 out of 7 winners too. None of this excuses Pearson, but what is unreasonable about his commentary of this (selectively calling out or protecting players) and what else can he do if players keep making these simple, basic mistakes?

Take out the errors and we're closer to the team that started the season getting up to 3rd using a cheaper and younger side on paper vs last season. That is and could still be an improvement in my book.

[robinforlife2]

It's very clear I have been Pearson out longer than most. I don't dislike Pearson, I just don't buy into just because we have no money and the person who should replace him can't be identified is the correct reason to keep him in a job.

I had three main gripes about Pearson I said early on.

1: He had wasted the career of Nahki Wells here and if it hadn't been for Semenyo getting injured he would have got the Bentley/Massengo treatment.

What has transpired is Pearson left our best striker out of the fold, was happy in January to try and send him on loan (Nahki didn't want to go) and only when his hand was forced did he give him a chance. From thsi chance Nahki has proven countless times he is a team player, our best striker and ultimately earned himself a new contract. THIS IS CLEAR EVIDENCE PEARSON DOES NOT KNOW HIS BACKSIDE FROM HIS ELBOW! He was happy to waste the career of one of our best players, leaving him to waste, fans accusing said player of having a bad attitude and not wanting to be hear. Some of these fans wanted him sold to Preston! Where would we have been this year without Nahki, slap bang in the relegation zone! 
This was no stroke of genius to convert a player, this was pure awful management who had no idea the talent he had at the club, I said long ago, this worried me and showed Pearson could not be trusted to recruit and should be sacked, I stand by this, he exposed what an awful manager he was by demoting Nahki and never playing him to his best positions in the past, for me this made his job untenable.

2: He is a bully!

I don't care what others think, Pearson is a bully, he has frozen out his own choices of purchases, thrown players under the bus, and used the players I can trust nonsense. 
This is not how you inspire people, if I were Massengo, Bentley, Klose, Atkinson, I would wouldn't try a yard for him, I would deliberately let us get humiliated so the board have to step in. The facts are, teams are a bond, squads are a bond, players hang about with players, some times coaches, they get on with each other, and keeping high spirits is important. You can say he is trying to motivate all you want. He isn't. He is pig headed and a bully. He feels he is above this club and we are lucky to have him. He is a bully boy who has demoralised a number of players, he has publicly exposed them and frozen them out. Do you really think other players will be motivated by this, no they will play scared, frightened that one false move, one mistake, one bad comment and they are back in the naughty seat in Frozen corner. 
Players look like they are playing with no confidence, or belief, they are playing in fear of their positions and unless they have the surname James or King, know they are one error away from the reserves. 
You wont get results when players feel like this. Pearson has done this to the squad, no one else and is another reason he has to go. 
The day he is sacked, everyone has a chance again, and players will have a boost.

3: He is not getting any better, yet he has his team and his tactics.

Pearson by his own admission says this is a team that could be good enough to be top half. He has never said this is a relegation fodder team, he has spoken of youngsters of quality. He is not wrong. We have some good players, some talent coming through and we are in a position where many say the results don't lie, but the fact is the main reason this team is where it is, is for all the moments of magic, there are awful mistakes, often by sticking with the same formation which isn't working. Continually not playing players in their best positions and that is down to poor management and poor tactics.
I don't buy into what people say that anyone who inherits this squad will have the same problems as Pearson, and that we are better to stick than twist. The fact is, Pearson is not getting the best out of these players, whether its them not giving him 100%, or them unable to adapt to his tactics, but the facts are simple, we are underachieving.

When we beat West Brom 2-0, we had a similar line up to the team that yesterday lost 2-0 to West Brom. In Steve Bruce who had just been sacked when we beat them West Brom had not in their own fans eyes recruited well and were annoyed the only forward they bought was from Salford. They felt they would go down under Bruce, as the team just didn't turn up and play to their ability. Now the new manager of West Brom has not had the luxury of transfer windows or a chance to rejig a squad, he has simply worked with exactly the same tools Bruce had, tools which had them losing to us 2-0 and looking relegation candidates, but what the new manager done, was got them playing again, giving them good tactics and they improved and suddenly they came to us and done what we did to them.
The facts are simple, the same team that beat the same West Brom in October 2-0 are the same team who were beaten 2-0 by pretty much the same team, only one thing is different, when West Brom had a team not playing to their best, Bruce was not given the "he's doing the best he can" relief by the fans, he was sent packing and West Brom have turned it around.
Now we are not blessed with money, but West Brom's improvement has not come by spending money, it has come from new motivation from a new manager who knows what they are doing. There is no reason why the same affect can't happen here. 
Pearson is leading us to a regression on the pitch. For all the off the pitch advancement, on the pitch is what decides relegation. We can count ourselves lucky the league is wide open and 10pts separates Playoffs to Relegation Zone, but we now have a situation where small gaps are starting to open from mid table to bottom 6 or 7 and by the end of January, it could suddenly be 3 of 5 and not 3 of 10. 
This is the situation we are facing if we don't act now.

Pearson has had more than enough time, but a 26% win rate is enough to get you sacked at any club. Our financial position is no worse than several in this league and our CEO has told us that we are in the top ten wage payers in the league, so for all our financial constraints, we are still happy to be one of the better payers in the division, yet we are playing shocking.

I actually feel the players want change, maybe some feel its the only way to get back in the squad. None of the players want to get relegated, but at the same time too many players look lost by frustrating and confusing tactics. 

Those who say Pearson should stay because the better option is not obvious, are the same people who are likely to have only worked for people in life and not hired and fired. In order to find the right candidates, the job has to be available. If someone is not performing and not getting the best from their workforce, you do more damage than good by keeping them in place.
It is my feeling, that no one could do worse than Pearson is currently doing, that's not to say I know who can do better, and who can turn us around, but I actually think no one could do any worse, and therefore I see no risk in sacking Pearson.

Those who don't want Warnock, I understand why and he would not be a solution to the long term problem, but he could be an option to actually make sure we stay in this league. Give him the job until the end of the season to keep us up. In the summer our finances will be better, and we will probably sell Semenyo, Scott and possibly one other. Then we can at least be an attractive proposition to a new manager to work off a blank canvas at the start of the season, with a respectable budget, with a lot of dead wood gone, and money in the bank from player sales. 

This is when we look for the manager to take us forwards, a permanent replacement to Pearson is not needed right now, but what is needed, is someone to stop the rot that is leading us to League One, and that financially will cripple us, and don't expect us to bounce back, as League One is a lot tougher than the last time we were there and we would be one of many big fish in that pond, playing the Gas twice a year, and probably looking at Plymouth in the Championship lording it as the best in the west .

The problem now is we are going backwards under a leader, who has alienated several members of the squad, bullies the team, doesn't know his best players from his worse, and can't get a result with his tactics. The problem is not to replace him, the problem is keeping him.

Pearson has to go. That alone can start to stop the rot. 

 

[Major Isewater]

34 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Pt 1: Let's be honest: we aren't a big or physical side. West Brom are, and with 5ft 8 Nakhi Wells effectively marked out by a (very good) man-mountain, we only had Conway's physicality to rely on. For me, Weimann's speed and poacher's instinct had to be put forward where he's got most of his goals. Yes, he can play RWB - unlike many forwards, he has defensive ability - but swap Wells' declining speed and positioning, for Weimann's. Have Antoine starting as a battering ram, holding balls for AW to run on to. Wells would make an excellent second half sub in such a game.  Addendum: Syksey did well when he came on versus Stoke. Play according to matchday form.

Pt2: Because he knows Andy King of old, he trusts Andy King and because of that - and the fact Kingy is a mid-30s married man he can probably relate to better than youngsters - he was left in a position he should not have been made to do once Atkinson and/or Klose were available. The fact he got injured doing it, just shows its folly. I'm all for imposing squad discipline BTW but not if it costs us points. Other ways to do that. 

Pt3: Of course, he has flaws, but in this one particular game you wanted someone to take the ball away from the midfield area that was a happy hunting ground for the Baggies.  Get it in their half and maybe win a free kick. Han can do that. He was custom-made for the role when Scott and Williams offered nothing. Ultimately, if all he offered was fresh legs, he could be no worse!  I'm of the opinion that Massengo might meet the right coach and fit into the right team and he will become the real deal. Just a hunch, mind you. 

Pt4: I think the vast majority of managers not working with PP millions utilise loans and as most in the Championship are above us, often with loanees as crucial parts of their team's equation, they seem to work for them without destroying the team's equilibrium or cohesion. Imagine foregoing Tammy Abraham or Steven Caulker. Or Andy Cole!

I don't dispute a lot of your post and it isn't a case of me thinking we're doomed with Pearson.  It's just I can't see any progression, We seem less able to compete with good teams than under Holden, and although Nigel faces particular money challenges, so do others, more successful others.  If NP keeps us up this season, I foresee more of the same - or worse. 

Suddenly Nigel Pearson is talking about loans. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see at least one come in in January. 

[Scrumpylegs]

Dean Smith available now. Would there be any takers on here for him?

[Top Robin]

1 hour ago, megansdad said:

Ole - a really good post. I think we are making mistakes when on top in games that are proving very costly. Against Stoke we could have been 2 up at half time and probably should have been - yesterday we could easily have been level. Chances are being created and some good football is being played. Scott looks a little jaded to me and could not seem to hold the ball yesterday. Hopefully NP has plans for the January window which will prove successful! 

Hopefully he's gone before then

[CliftonCliff]

8 minutes ago, Scrumpylegs said:

Dean Smith available now. Would there be any takers on here for him?

Well, considering he's got three wins in his last 13 games with a squad that's vastly superior to the one at the disposal of Pearson, who also has three wins on his last 13..... er, no.

[M.D]

If we have any money to spend in January then we should get Craig Shakespeare in if NP could persuade him to join..