Sack or keep Nigel Pearson

[thatchersgold]

7 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Don't ask questions like that you'll be told your a gas head, not a true fan, anything you do like, why don't you do one.... He is the Messiah as we should all know and agree!

What a nause u r, I want him out im just intrigued to no the other opinion, yes I no a big word for you to comprehend 

[tin]

5 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Based on a lot more than one match.

Based on the overall trajectory of 90+ games, squad members brought in (and apparently "not trusted") plus watching mistake after mistake. 

Arguably,  the Stoke loss was worse. West Brom were on a winning streak and are (now) well-managed.  Stoke are much weaker and less consistent. 

And if the reservation is "Lansdown can't pick winners", well, Lansdown, picked Pearson. So, plus ca change. 

 

I don’t disagree with you for what’s it worth, but I have zero faith in the Lansdowns to get us out of a situation that is entirely of their own making. 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

7 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Don't ask questions like that you'll be told your a gas head, not a true fan, anything you do like, why don't you do one.... He is the Messiah as we should all know and agree!

Which would be true, if anyone was actually saying that. 

[RedM]

What's got to me, apart from our performance which I place the blame at Pearson's door more than the players btw, is the comment he made in his interview. I can't bring myself to watch it again but he says something like "It's almost as if they (WBA) came to negate our strengths".

Well no shit Sherlock, it's called having a game plan to win a match!

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Tin Soldier said:

If you sell all the family silver (like Ashton & SL did), in the end you are left with peanuts.

It’s what Rovers did…and they ended up on the Conference.  Stewart, Taylor, Ellington, Hayles, Roberts, Lambert, Browning, Yates, Martin (I’m sure I’ve missed others) sales financed them each season (or two), until there were none left to sell!

[RedM]

None of the Lansdown's were at the match today I don't think, certainly not Steve. I can't imagine any decision will be made without them having seen things first hand, unless Gould is very influential.

[AppyDAZE]

Keep, but ask again after the next two league games.

[Johnr1986]

3 minutes ago, RedM said:

None of the Lansdown's were at the match today I don't think, certainly not Steve. I can't imagine any decision will be made without them having seen things first hand, unless Gould is very influential.

Gould left a month ago.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

34 minutes ago, thatchersgold said:

Out of interest the those in the keep Pearson camp can I ask the opinions of y? 

For now I’d keep, not because I think he’s doing an amazing job/is the messiah, but because I think we need to give someone a decent chance at properly changing how City operate, culture etc. I think NP has made decent progress at a lot that, but lots more to be done and if it isn’t done, think we’ll be on our traditional hamster wheel of getting someone else in, maybe a bit of a bounce initially, but then the same old, same old. If we keep going with NP, we’ll be setting ourselves up for success with a (probably better than NP) coach in a year or two. There are other ways to do it, eg NP to DoF immediately and bring in a new coach for the first team etc etc, but all cost money and bring their own risks. So for now, I’m stick, but that’s far from saying NP is getting it all right, he isn’t, just think this is a time for a strategic approach (fix the foundations), rather than our (and most other clubs) tactical ‘not winning, change manager’ approach, that doesn’t seem to move us forward in any consistent way. I’m not 100/0 keep NP, but I am above 50/50. 

Edited December 26, 2022 by The Swan and Cemetery

[RedM]

1 minute ago, Johnr1986 said:

Gould left a month ago.

He was at the match today

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, B-Rizzle said:

I respect the work Pearson has done to lower the wage bill in a big way, some of the attacking football we have played (at times!) under is tenure, and the emphasis he has placed on giving youth a chance.

But, imo he hasn’t done enough to improve the players we have or make the current squad better individually and as a team. He has constantly reminded us of the lack of money available but the biggest part of his job is to coach and prepare the team tactically to win football matches. I don’t think this is his strength. I also find the public lambasting of his signings strange on a number of levels.

Within our current financial restrictions I strongly feel we need a Head Coach/ Manager who can work with the group he’s given to maximise their potential. An older school manager is not the skill set we currently require.

For that reason, I’m Pearson out. 

Well articulated and balanced.  

3 hours ago, italian dave said:

It's already been 2-3 years FFS!! You want another 2-3? And in the meantime...?

Every other club has to deal with financial messes left by previous managers/administrations. 

Where else, staring relegation in the face, is no action taken just because it's all the fault of someone who left 3 years ago?
Nowhere else gives the next manager 5-6 years to sort it out. 

And pretty much all of them are above us in the league right now.

Unfortunately it is gonna take longer, that’s the sad fact about it all.

Heres all the players (non-Academy) Nige inherited:

25 players - cost us £45.150m

1 loan came to an end

12 released for nothing (OOC) ***Mariappa should say 0 and 0, not Loan and End

3 sold (at least 2 if not all 3 cost us to move them on) - earned us £0.200m

1 retired (sadly).

Basically £45m down the shitter!!!  That is harrowing imho!!

Of the 8 remaining players:

- Bentley, Dasilva, Kalas, Moore and Massengo might leave for nothing (OOC)

- Martin exercised his own option

- just Weimann and Wells have re-contracted (plus Baker who’s since retired, see above)

- Cundy and Bakinson had their options exercised

It is gonna take at least until this summer to see any semblance of normality return, and then you’re at the mercy of recruitment.

Those are the hard facts of the situation.  I don’t care if people are Nige In, Nige Out or Nige Shake-it-all-about, but this is the context.  Thank **** for the Academy.  This is what the new manager inherits if you want Nige out.  Fine if you do.

We signed players for too big a fee and for too high wages.  Until virtually all of those players are off the books or on current climate contracts we are in a mess.

 

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, Johnr1986 said:

Gould left a month ago.

He hasn’t, he announced he was leaving at the end of January after the transfer window closed.

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

Today,I finally lost  patience.  I think the Pearson experiment has run its course.

He is too stubborn. Too inflexible. Too egotistical.  

Poor judgement. Poor motivation skills - why are we nearly always worse second half? Stupidly ignoring the loan option unlike other managers.

His so-called commonsense and honesty is no more than a blame everyone else strategy, combined with a number of clichés. Different clichés to LJ's, but pretty meaningless clichés nonetheless.  

Maybe he's lost it with age, or Long Covid, or maybe his past successes were achieved with the help of coaches no longer available to him.

Nigel faces a lot of constraints; inherited a car-crash of a club.

But he's not the only Championship manager poorly resourced. He didn't inherit the worst squad by any means. He is at a club starting to develop some real young talent. City aren't the only club with fairly useless owners.

Yet others do better. Others might do better here.

He's had long enough. We aren't improving. Time to go.

It's a roll of the dice. We might get worse. But I honestly think under Pearson we won't get better. We'll play better games than today.But I don't think we'll improve long-term.

And we haven't got much further to fall before we are in the third tier morass again. 

 

Good summary for me RR. 

It kind of reinforces what you say, but I spent some time today thinking that the players we have at the club really shouldn’t be in the position we are.

Yes, there are huge financial constraints, yes he inherited a car crash, yes resources are limited (not sure we differ much from most other championship clubs in much of this). But we have a squad of players who, individually, are decent enough Championship players. 

They’re not going to set the world alight, but they aren’t bottom three either. There are enough that are at least mid table, average, standard that’s where we should be at the very least - and today (and last week) we’ve looked like a relegation side.

We know what they can do as individuals. We’ve all seen how the likes of Scott, Semenyo, Atkinson, Pring, Massengo, Weimann, Tanner, (need I go on?) can perform on their day. Surely the point of management is to get that best consistently, and to play a system and a set up that plays to those strengths.

Basically, we should aim to be a collective that achieves more than its individual parts: at the moment we’re doing the polar opposite to that. 

I’ve said before, I’m not really into the manager in or out thing (and I haven’t voted) because I always hope the current manager (whoever they are) will turn it round and achieve success - but at the moment I’m really struggling to see how that happens. 

[nebristolred]

Definitely keep for me.

It might be dreadful, but I'm not sure there is any stand-out replacement out there. I also think he's done wonders outside of the actual results, which sounds a bit ridiculous, but bringing through youth players and buying into the club culture will stand in good stead if he can get through this patch and actually make use of a 'normal' transfer window at some point.

If we got rid, we'd probably wonder what could have been one day, given he has only ever operated under restrictions that barely any City managers have faced in recent years. Certainly only O'Driscoll in the past couple of decades.

[italian dave]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Well articulated and balanced.  

Unfortunately it is gonna take longer, that’s the sad fact about it all.

Heres all the players (non-Academy) Nige inherited:

25 players - cost us £45.150m

1 loan came to an end

12 released for nothing (OOC) ***Mariappa should say 0 and 0, not Loan and End

3 sold (at least 2 if not all 3 cost us to move them on) - earned us £0.200m

1 retired (sadly).

Basically £45m down the shitter!!!  That is harrowing imho!!

Of the 8 remaining players:

- Bentley, Dasilva, Kalas, Moore and Massengo might leave for nothing (OOC)

- Martin exercised his own option

- just Weimann and Wells have re-contracted (plus Baker who’s since retired, see above)

- Cundy and Bakinson had their options exercised

It is gonna take at least until this summer to see any semblance of normality return, and then you’re at the mercy of recruitment.

Those are the hard facts of the situation.  I don’t care if people are Nige In, Nige Out or Nige Shake-it-all-about, but this is the context.  Thank **** for the Academy.  This is what the new manager inherits if you want Nige out.  Fine if you do.

We signed players for too big a fee and for too high wages.  Until virtually all of those players are off the books or on current climate contracts we are in a mess.

 

Yeah, fair comments Dave. My post that you replied to was one written in the immediate after match fury today. My more considered one is the one I’ve just posted above! 

(I’m still not convinced by the argument that we’re that significantly “abnormal” compared to many other clubs.)

[NcnsBcfc]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He hasn’t, he announced he was leaving at the end of January after the transfer window 

All a bit disorganised that we haven't announced his replacement really.

Are we looking on Tinnion stepping up re: transfers, and us trying to blag it through until the end of the season without a CEO?

Certainly with a non-existant Chairman, and no other board members of note. We do appear somewhat rudderless again at the moment after Gould had done a really good job of steadying the ship.

As a fanbase we need someone at the club (other than NP) to come out and tell us what the plan is for next month, or even how we are planning on arresting this, what feels terminal slide downwards.

[RedM]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He hasn’t, he announced he was leaving at the end of January after the transfer window closed.

Thank you. Wonder if I will get an acknowledgement about that from @Johnr1986as the facepalm wasn't warranted

[glynriley]

5 minutes ago, RedM said:

Thank you. Wonder if I will get an acknowledgement about that from @Johnr1986as the facepalm wasn't warranted

Don’t worry about people who don’t know shit from pudding. 

[pillred]

3 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Except for Lee Johnson who’d get a couple more years. So get used to it if we’re being consistent. 

I know, I'm not sure if I should applaud the fact we give our managers time or bemoan the fact we don't cut our losses sooner, but having been a hapless spectator today and watched a team that had gone from hapless to hopeful (WBA) just from making a change in manager it's tempting to think we could be one change  up top to becoming the team that most us think we could be.    

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Yeah, fair comments Dave. My post that you replied to was one written in the immediate after match fury today. My more considered one is the one I’ve just posted above! 

(I’m still not convinced by the argument that we’re that significantly “abnormal” compared to many other clubs.)

We are unfortunately, based on the 2021 accounts most clubs have published.  Although I will need to see 2022’s for most clubs around March / April next year.  We timed our overspending about as poorly as possible .

A couple of the clubs that ought to be in trouble had the benefit of PPs to get them out of jail.

I do think results should be better on the pitch, performances have generally been fine (imho).  Today was very disappointing.

2 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

All a bit disorganised that we haven't announced his replacement really.

Are we looking on Tinnion stepping up re: transfers, and us trying to blag it through until the end of the season without a CEO?

Certainly with a non-existant Chairman, and no other board members of note. We do appear somewhat rudderless again at the moment after Gould had done a really good job of steadying the ship.

As a fanbase we need someone at the club (other than NP) to come out and tell us what the plan is for next month, or even how we are planning on arresting this, what feels terminal slide downwards.

From the little bits and pieces I hear (not ITK) we were down to a couple of candidates.  It is progressing.

No, we aren’t trying to blag it with Tinnion.  Although he is now in charge of recruitment.

Chairman has been non-existent for 2 years, and appears more interested with his upgrade from “crayons” to “Digital crayons” with the in-house media Fever Pitch.  That is his skillset…not being Chairman.  But it’s Daddy’s money, so he wants his person in that role.

Comms from above the football side is as you say - deafening.

[BUTOR]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Those are the hard facts of the situation.  I don’t care if people are Nige In, Nige Out or Nige Shake-it-all-about, but this is the context.  Thank **** for the Academy.  This is what the new manager inherits if you want Nige out.  Fine if you do.

We signed players for too big a fee and for too high wages.  Until virtually all of those players are off the books or on current climate contracts we are in a mess.

 

Out of the 5 points of sustainability the club pledged 9-10 years ago, the things we since have stuck to are now thriving, and one of those - the academy - has indeed saved us from relegation or worse. 

The ones we abandoned have put us in an eerily similar mess to the chaos we were in during those years, the chaos which forced these pillared pledges of sustainability in the first place.

It is a confused, complicated, contradictory, and as you rightly say - harrowing - situation. Harrowing that we have made the same dangerous, progress arresting mistakes, in different dresses and to different levels of severity, for as long as I have been supporting the club. 

I’ve liked the noises coming out of Nige since he arrived because he has been telling us he recognises the mistakes we have made - mistakes which can summarise the ones we have continually made in the past - and that he has diagnosed the fix, and is beginning the overhaul. In a similar vein to O’Driscoll, who is well credited for laying solid groundwork by many involved with the club at that time, I think he has done very good things, and set the wheels in motion for some long overdue changes at our football club. But, as was the case with SOD, I also believe he has taken us as far as he can on the pitch before the situation becomes untenable, irreversibly damaging and toxic. 

I fully appreciate that you are right to point out this awful mess and the restraints he is working under, but feel like a new manager, a fresh energy, an attempt to stop a spiral, is now what the club needs. 

[Red-Robbo]

13 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Good summary for me RR. 

It kind of reinforces what you say, but I spent some time today thinking that the players we have at the club really shouldn’t be in the position we are.

Yes, there are huge financial constraints, yes he inherited a car crash, yes resources are limited (not sure we differ much from most other championship clubs in much of this). But we have a squad of players who, individually, are decent enough Championship players. 

They’re not going to set the world alight, but they aren’t bottom three either. There are enough that are at least mid table, average, standard that’s where we should be at the very least - and today (and last week) we’ve looked like a relegation side.

We know what they can do as individuals. We’ve all seen how the likes of Scott, Semenyo, Atkinson, Pring, Massengo, Weimann, Tanner, (need I go on?) can perform on their day. Surely the point of management is to get that best consistently, and to play a system and a set up that plays to those strengths.

Basically, we should aim to be a collective that achieves more than its individual parts: at the moment we’re doing the polar opposite to that. 

I’ve said before, I’m not really into the manager in or out thing (and I haven’t voted) because I always hope the current manager (whoever they are) will turn it round and achieve success - but at the moment I’m really struggling to see how that happens. 

 

Thanks Dave.

It seems a downhill trudge for me.

Will we be relegated this season under Pearson? Maybe not (although of course it is a possibility) but there are probably three worse sides than us in the division. 

But if he stays, I have - alas - no confidence that he will improve us next window, or next summer, or - in fact - ever.

We have talent here. We should be doing better. 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

Out of the 5 points of sustainability the club pledged 9-10 years ago, the things we since have stuck to are now thriving, and one of those - the academy - has indeed saved us from relegation or worse. 

The ones we abandoned have put us in an eerily similar mess to the chaos we were in during those years, the chaos which forced these pillared pledges of sustainability in the first place.

It is a confused, complicated, contradictory, and as you rightly say - harrowing - situation. Harrowing that we have made the same dangerous, progress arresting mistakes, in different dresses and to different levels of severity, for as long as I have been supporting the club. 

I’ve liked the noises coming out of Nige since he arrived because he has been telling us he recognises the mistakes we have made - mistakes which can summarise the ones we have continually made in the past - and that he has diagnosed the fix, and is beginning the overhaul. In a similar vein to O’Driscoll, who is well credited for laying solid groundwork by many involved with the club at that time, I think he has done very good things, and set the wheels in motion for some long overdue changes at our football club. But, as was the case with SOD, I also believe he has taken us as far as he can on the pitch before the situation becomes untenable, irreversibly damaging and toxic. 

I fully appreciate that you are right to point out this awful mess and the restraints he is working under, but feel like a new manager, a fresh energy, an attempt to stop a spiral, is now what the club needs. 

Can’t disagree with any of that BATG…we are just on the opposite sides of the “ultimate question”!   for putting across your view so well.

[2015]

Sacking him won't get us anywhere. We have no money to spend, who will really want to come here with that hanging over them?

I also have zero faith in the owners making the right appointment after the farce when LJ was sacked and based on previous poor managerial appointments.

I'm also really surprised some are calling us a sinking ship now - we have been for the last 3 years. The football has been awful ever since 17/18 and the results have only been going one way. Sacking NP is just putting a plaster over our sinking ship.

There's a serious issue at this club which haven't been addressed since Cotterill left and even before that we were cannon fodder in this Division.

[Lennieb]

We need the new manager bounce imo ,there's been some great and honest posts on here and in all fairness it could be the wrong decision but we are drowning a bit now with having no faith in one another no matter what role we have at the club ie fan ,boss ,owner ,player and so on. We should know what you get with nigel pearson by now,the blokes not fluffy and doesn't have all the right answers but I've posted a bit before about excitement, enthusiasm and So on and it's not here anymore . The younger ones have been sucked into it now which worries me ,kids always play with enthusiasm and ours ain't,  stats don't lie also. I look at Dean Smith tonight and feel he's another on his way .

[Ska Junkie]

I'm torn tbh so voted 'keep' but a further question to add to the debate.

If we received decent offers for Antoine and Scotty, who would you trust to spend any funds they may be given as a result? If it ain't Nige, I would guess a parting is necessary?

I hated his comment today about the fans, that helps nobody and some of his comments seem to be against the support. There's only 1 winner there IMHO and it ain't you Nigel.

Turning on the supporters strikes me as rather desperate tbh.

All that said, West Brom look a strong side now.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Ska Junkie

[One Team]

20 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Sacking him won't get us anywhere. We have no money to spend, who will really want to come here with that hanging over them?

I also have zero faith in the owners making the right appointment after the farce when LJ was sacked and based on previous poor managerial appointments.

I'm also really surprised some are calling us a sinking ship now - we have been for the last 3 years. The football has been awful ever since 17/18 and the results have only been going one way. Sacking NP is just putting a plaster over our sinking ship.

There's a serious issue at this club which haven't been addressed since Cotterill left and even before that we were cannon fodder in this Division.

Completely agree. If we do sack Pearson I’ve no faith in SL to make a good appointment. 

[2015]

Just now, One Team said:

Completely agree. If we do sack Pearson I’ve no faith in SL to make a good appointment. 

it would likely be given to Curtis Fleming after an unbeaten run of 3 games as caretaker. Our whole process at selecting Managers have been woeful in SLs reign, literally amateur

[Wrongagain]

Weimann scoring for fun last season - 22 goals! This season total probably less than 11 - now taking throws in the attacking half rather than receiving them with nowhere near as agile or capable players in front of him - a geriatric mediocre midfielder in central defence and our most promising forward gets 10 minutes! How many out of position players were on the field at the end of the game?

I’m not a manager or a coach but with so many problems how and when are we likely to put together a string of good results?

[Sturny]

Was it SL who hired Nige without a CEO?