Rotherham United at home match thread

[1960maaan]

Been watching the highlights , shocking decision for their Pen. The one the Ref didn't give was a better shout and I saw that as a foul on Pring. Seeing the clips in the concourse , I'm not sure why Conway goes down when in on goal, but it wasn't a foul for me.
Suspicion of a foul for the winner ?
One thing I want to see is why Weimann got booked when we were braking , hope they put up the full game again.

21 minutes ago, Fuber said:

On another note - Ryan Dilks of the Second Tier pod really needs to do some research before spouting some utter bollucks. Not sure why you'd put out an opinion on a club without basic fact checking or feedback and be surprised when you get pilloried for it. Had us favourites to go down, we're midtable, still insist we need a 'young and upcoming manager' without providing a viable name as an example and reckons we need a complete squad overhaul and new identity.

Then the next second praises the younger players. I... what??

How does it not click that part of the the reason academy players have integrated so well is because of NP?

I can't listen to that lot, but they aren't alone. Gab Sutton , who does seem to know his stuff agrees. 
I did reply to him, and I didn't agree.

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by 1960maaan

[Robbored]

24 minutes ago, Beni71 said:

Building on this point LJ had funds to back the playoff push. Think we spent as much on Gustav Engvalls transfer fee as Nige has in his tenure to date.

The entire LJ reign was largely disappointing - the cup run excepted. He had lots of support from SL but when Ashton became CEO the real difficulties began to develop. Too many signings of modest ability with over generous contracts and allowing Famara to leave saying that FD had been offered the best deal - utter nonsense according to Famara himself.

We all know that Nige inherited a shambles of a club and it’s taken him the best part of two seasons to rectify the mess. He and RG did a really good job by working well together.

Anyhow - it’s all water under the bridge and we now have a proper manager doing an excellent job.

[italian dave]

9 hours ago, Robbored said:

SL had given license to improve the club in anticipation that he’d get City into the PL….Sadly that never happened and SL told LJ that he wanted to see improved league positions season on season.
In many way LJ made a rod for his own back by gradually improving league placing but when it became mathematically impossible for City finish above 8th SL ran out of patience and sacked him - many fans had wanted LJ gone long before the axe finally fell but SL has resisted those calls.

Then we had the procrastination of appointing a new manager lasting weeks and weeks before the inexperienced DH was appointed and we all know how that ended…….

However…..every cloud has a silver lining and within just a few hours Nige was appointed and he not only kept City up but offloaded much of the dead wood.

We had a proper manager at long last and he’s rebuilt the squad and developed a positive culture throughout the club - an essential ingredient towards taking the club forward.

All may well be true. But completely avoids the point of  @grifty ‘s post, which is your statement above lamenting “his failure to improve City’s league position season on season”. 

That is evidently nonsense. 

[petehinton]

8 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Been watching the highlights , shocking decision for their Pen. The one the Ref didn't give was a better shout and I saw that as a foul on Pring. Seeing the clips in the concourse , I'm not sure why Conway goes down when in on goal, but it wasn't a foul for me.
Suspicion of a foul for the winner ?
One thing I want to see is why Weimann got booked when we were braking , hope they put up the full game again.

I can't listen to that lot, but they aren't alone. Gab Sutton , who does seem to know his stuff agrees. 
I did reply to him, and I didn't agree.

 

The issue with these EFL ‘experts’ are comments like these. Totally baseless and offer absolutely no alternative. If he isn’t, who in the champ/l1/l2 is? Say who would suit us. 
 

Id argue this isn’t a really exciting squad, either. The academy lads coming through, absolutely. But apart from Scott, I don’t think many other managers bring them through to rhe first team in the first place - which if anything proves the point that we have the right man in charge atm anyway!!!

[ExiledAjax]

31 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Had us favourites to go down, we're midtable, still insist we need a 'young and upcoming manager' without providing a viable name as an example and reckons we need a complete squad overhaul and new identity.

Us needing a "Complete squad overhaul" and "new identity" is a ludicrous opinion. Switching to a different manager in order to take the next step - not so crazy in my opinion. Not this summer, but when Pearson's contract ends this time next year then there's a valid debate to be had over whether to renew/extend it or whether to look for a new option.

10 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I can't listen to that lot, but they aren't alone. Gab Sutton , who does seem to know his stuff agrees. 
I did reply to him, and I didn't agree.

 

I agree with Sutton.

Edited April 23, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Been watching the highlights , shocking decision for their Pen. The one the Ref didn't give was a better shout and I saw that as a foul on Pring. Seeing the clips in the concourse , I'm not sure why Conway goes down when in on goal, but it wasn't a foul for me.
Suspicion of a foul for the winner ?
One thing I want to see is why Weimann got booked when we were braking , hope they put up the full game again.

The guy in the row above us got the two penalty shouts up on his phone really quickly and Conway going down we all thought was a stone waller was actually the right decision.

The Rotherham penalty was the opposite - Vyner never touched the guy and he went down and won the penalty. Utterly wrong decision and one of the poorest that I’ve seen in a long time.

Despite the inconsistency of the referee City at least won the game.

[italian dave]

9 hours ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

His last season we finished 12th after holden took over. I think it was the final straw because even after a lengthy covid break we were still awful and we would have finished worse.

Yep, and you’re right: it was getting stale and going wrong, and it was clear that SL had expected that season to be at least a top 6 finish. Ironically, we went from being on course for that to it seeming beyond us in the space of a couple of months at most.

So I don’t think many people would argue with that, or with it being the right decision at the time. But to say that we consistently failed to improve our league position under LJ - which is where this started - is simply re-writing history to suit an agenda. 

[Open End Numb Legs]

That penalty for them.... I don't like having a go at officials but what was the ref thinking there? The striker even fell over like it was a dive with clear air between them. Sometimes the officials are only proven right or wrong with a TV slow motion close up but that wasn't needed with this case.

[italian dave]

16 hours ago, petehinton said:

At what point are people going to finally clock Rotherham could still go down, so were always going to be grim to play against as they’re still fighting for their lives?

Very true, Pete. 

And I don’t think they are a bad side either. Certainly not in the Blackpool or Reading bracket.

When we won up there they looked really good for a fair chunk of the game. It was only when we went ahead, against the run of play, that you could almost see the confidence drain out of them.

And their reaction after their equaliser yesterday was not one of a team that saw the opportunity to snatch a point - they wanted to get on and take all three. 

 

[GrahamC]

1 minute ago, Open End Numb Legs said:

That penalty for them.... I don't like having a go at officials but what was the ref thinking there? The striker even fell over like it was a dive with clear air between them. Sometimes the officials are only proven right or wrong with a TV slow motion close up but that wasn't needed with this case.

It was a terrible decision but I think a big factor in them not getting their second shout, when Pring tripped their player after it came back off the post.

Having given one so incredibly soft he then bottled a far stronger claim.

One of few occasions when it actually did even itself out.

[1960maaan]

7 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I agree with Sutton.

At least he says he's not sure , and he does start by saying he wouldn't recommend a man for a post that has someone in position.

But as I said, with all the work that has gone on. With all the building work , team and backroom and all the prep for recruitment. I think it would be madness to get rid of Pearson now. This feels like a real first chance of a start for him. We should give him a chance to see the next step out.

[Fuber]

9 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Us needing a "Complete squad overhaul" and "new identity" is a ludicrous opinion. Switching to a different manager in order to take the next step - not so crazy in my opinion. Not this summer, but when Pearson's contract ends this time next year then there's a valid debate to be had over whether to renew/extend it or whether to look for a new option.

I agree with Sutton.

My only reason to disagree with Sutton - is that too often managers don't get enough time. We've cleared the deadwood now and improved upon last season. Let's see where momentum building now takes us into next season, especially regarding recruitment -would be remiss to sack Pearson now.

Nige's contract ends next season anyhow.

[1960maaan]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

It was a terrible decision but I think a big factor in them not getting their second shout, when Pring tripped their player after it came back off the post.

Having given one so incredibly soft he then bottled a far stronger claim.

One of few occasions when it actually did even itself out.

It is a stronger claim, as I've said elsewhere, but only because there is actual contact. IMO Pring tries to shield the ball and the bloke runs into him. It could have been given, but that would have been wrong too. The more I look at the one he gave, the more I don't even think it was soft, just wrong. 

[Open End Numb Legs]

5 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

It was a terrible decision but I think a big factor in them not getting their second shout, when Pring tripped their player after it came back off the post.

Having given one so incredibly soft he then bottled a far stronger claim.

One of few occasions when it actually did even itself out.

Yes, I agree though wondered if the Rotheram player ran at Pring to get the contact. This is becoming a big thing where attackers are deliberately tangling legs with defenders making life hard for refs. You get the sound of the legs tangling and the attacker goes down naturally, very easy for refs to get that wrong and pleased to see some Prem games on TV lately where they have spotted it and waved play on.

[Fuber]

42 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

If those sums are correct,they do bring perspective - Nigel's work here thus far is clearly impressive.(not to all,mind!).

I'm nervous now about what can be achieved with a few quid in the back pocket! 

Nige has effectively spent £3.5m on Atkinson, Tanner, Mehmeti, and Cornick.

LJ spent more than that on Engvall and O'Dowda.

[italian dave]

12 hours ago, Med/MadHatter said:

This is why McDonald's stopped selling the 1/3 pound burger in the USA because the customers logic thought they were getting less than a 1/4 pounder because 3 is smaller than 4

Ha ha. Not just in the US though. There was a post on the politics forum recently (I know many don’t go there!) about a survey in the UK It asked about Sunak’s commitment to halve inflation - from 10% to 5%.
40% of people thought that meant that a £1 bottle of milk would cost £1 or less. More than the 34% who thought it would cost £1.05. 

[grifty]

10 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Nige has effectively spent £3.5m on Atkinson, Tanner, Mehmeti, and Cornick.

LJ spent more than that on Engvall and O'Dowda.

If you take Transfermarkt.

Engvall - £1.1m also apparently recouping £600k

O'Dowda - £1.2m

£2.3m is not more than £3.5m.

I get people don't like LJ cos he was short, believed in himself and ultimately didn't deliver, but my god some people make stuff up!

[Super]

Saw the pen incident back after they hit the post certainly looks more of a pen than the other 2 in the game.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Super

[italian dave]

16 minutes ago, grifty said:

If you take Transfermarkt.

Engvall - £1.1m also apparently recouping £600k

O'Dowda - £1.2m

£2.3m is not more than £3.5m.

I get people don't like LJ cos he was short, believed in himself and ultimately didn't deliver, but my god some people make stuff up!

That last sentence……brilliantly put! 

I don’t know what the social media equivalent of a tablet of stone is, but whatever it is it deserves to go on one as an epitaph to LJs tenure here, and to be wheeled out every time the subject comes up! 

[Davefevs]

My view on the 3 penalty shouts:

1. Conway is clearly beyond Humphreys, who gets too close to the back of him, puts a hand on him, which is enough due to the proximity of the player chasing him to send him tumbling.  The only reason the ref doesn’t give it is because he knows he’s gonna have to send the Rotherham player off too.  His positioning wasn’t great, as he was in a line behind the two players…but that line of sight should’ve made it look even more clearcut.  Ref got it wrong
2. Having now seen it again, Hugill initiates contact my moving towards Vyner.  Vyner needs to be smarter and avoid Hugill’s clever play.  Contact is allowed.  Ref got it wrong
3. Just two bodies / legs coming together (Pring and Kelly) before either plays the ball.  If anything Kelly has gone through Pring to get to the ball.  No pen.  Ref got it right

 

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

I think it would be madness to get rid of Pearson now.

 

1 hour ago, Fuber said:

Let's see where momentum building now takes us into next season, especially regarding recruitment -would be remiss to sack Pearson now.

I didn't read Sutton's tweet as saying he thinks we should sack Pearson and switch manager now. Dilks was saying that, but I read Sutton's as a more general point that maybe Pearson isn't the guy to take us to the top6/PL. If Sutton was advocating for a switch now then I retract my agreement.

[GrahamC]

2 hours ago, Open End Numb Legs said:

Yes, I agree though wondered if the Rotheram player ran at Pring to get the contact. This is becoming a big thing where attackers are deliberately tangling legs with defenders making life hard for refs. You get the sound of the legs tangling and the attacker goes down naturally, very easy for refs to get that wrong and pleased to see some Prem games on TV lately where they have spotted it and waved play on.

Sure is, if you look at the penalties Barton’s lot get (7 & counting) this is how they get the majority, initiating contact & going to ground.

Ivan Toney is a serial offender too, deliberately makes contact & goes down, Brentford get a large number of penalties as a result.

Edited April 23, 2023 by GrahamC

[Fuber]

1 hour ago, grifty said:

If you take Transfermarkt.

Engvall - £1.1m also apparently recouping £600k

O'Dowda - £1.2m

£2.3m is not more than £3.5m.

I get people don't like LJ cos he was short, believed in himself and ultimately didn't deliver, but my god some people make stuff up!

Transfermarkt has Engvall at €1.6m. And undisclosed with regards to the Mechelen fee. Talk at the time and since also pointed towards very inflated agents fees as part of the deal. I'd also point out I'm not only slighting LJ, but MA and JL as well.

Transfermarkt makes errors, a common problem is not exchanging to GBP.

My error was actually thinking we signed O'Dowda for £1.6m - the above correction is valid, again noting Transfermarkt have the fee in Euros in error. However, being the case, I remove Cornick from my £3.5m total. Doesn't change much, does it?

I could put immeasurable other signings from the MA/LJ era.

Wish people would stop assuming any criticism of LJ is somehow being heightist - odd tangent. I have never insulted LJ personally in reviews of his terms as manager.

Fact of the matter is, we blew nearly £35m of which only a small portion will be recouped, Kalas, Baker, Bentley, Palmer, DaSilva; alone nearly £22m in fees. That's indefensible.

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

My view on the 3 penalty shouts:

1. Conway is clearly beyond Humphreys, who gets too close to the back of him, puts a hand on him, which is enough due to the proximity of the player chasing him to send him tumbling.  The only reason the ref doesn’t give it is because he knows he’s gonna have to send the Rotherham player off too.  His positioning wasn’t great, as he was in a line behind the two players…but that line of sight should’ve made it look even more clearcut.  Ref got it wrong

 

 

My view as well. It was a push and if the ref didn't see it, he needed to consult his assistant in front of the Dolman, who got as good a look at it as you and I.

Not the only thing Josh Smith bottled in that game. His is a name that I'd not noticed before, and I sincerely hope I never have to read again. 

[Fuber]

46 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

I didn't read Sutton's tweet as saying he thinks we should sack Pearson and switch manager now. Dilks was saying that, but I read Sutton's as a more general point that maybe Pearson isn't the guy to take us to the top6/PL. If Sutton was advocating for a switch now then I retract my agreement.

My misunderstanding. Thought Gabs feedback was him being tagged into discussion Dilks' point.

2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

My view as well. It was a push and if the ref didn't see it, he needed to consult his assistant in front of the Dolman, who got as good a look at it as you and I.

Not the only thing Josh Smith bottled in that game. His is a name that I'd not noticed before, and I sincerely hope I never have to read again. 

To be fair to Smith - thought he was generally good first half. Just completely fell off second.

[1960maaan]

44 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

I didn't read Sutton's tweet as saying he thinks we should sack Pearson and switch manager now. Dilks was saying that, but I read Sutton's as a more general point that maybe Pearson isn't the guy to take us to the top6/PL. If Sutton was advocating for a switch now then I retract my agreement.

You may be right, depends how you take his comment.
"Not the best guy to take us forward"?
He's being careful with his comments I guess. He was asked for  "The 1 team in the #EFL most in need of a managerial shakeup in the summer + who you'd appoint as their successor." And starts by saying "I won’t talk about candidates for jobs where there’s not an existing vacancy," Then mentioning us and Wimbledon. So my take was he thinks we need a change, but it's a bit non committal as , has been said on here. No point in asking for change if you don't have a viable alternative . 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Transfermarkt has Engvall at €1.6m. And undisclosed with regards to the Mechelen fee. Talk at the time and since also pointed towards very inflated agents fees as part of the deal. I'd also point out I'm not only slighting LJ, but MA and JL as well.

Transfermarkt makes errors, a common problem is not exchanging to GBP.

My error was actually thinking we signed O'Dowda for £1.6m - the above correction is valid, again noting Transfermarkt have the fee in Euros in error. However, being the case, I remove Cornick from my £3.5m total. Doesn't change much, does it?

I could put immeasurable other signings from the MA/LJ era.

Wish people would stop assuming any criticism of LJ is somehow being heightist - odd tangent. I have never insulted LJ personally in reviews of his terms as manager.

Fact of the matter is, we blew nearly £35m of which only a small portion will be recouped, Kalas, Baker, Bentley, Palmer, DaSilva; alone nearly £22m in fees. That's indefensible.

O’Dowda was allegedly £1.2m rising to £1.6m with add-ons…the likelihood that if appearance based we would’ve paid out on.

Re Engvall, Agent fees likely to be on top of fee….eeeeeek

[Unan]

Unsurprisingly the people that could never see what Wiemann brings, also don’t see what Cornick brings. Hopefully we follow the same pattern and Cornick nicks 20+ goals next year.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

You may be right, depends how you take his comment.
"Not the best guy to take us forward"?
He's being careful with his comments I guess. He was asked for  "The 1 team in the #EFL most in need of a managerial shakeup in the summer + who you'd appoint as their successor." And starts by saying "I won’t talk about candidates for jobs where there’s not an existing vacancy," Then mentioning us and Wimbledon. So my take was he thinks we need a change, but it's a bit non committal as , has been said on here. No point in asking for change if you don't have a viable alternative . 

Think the issue with that horrible podcast and Gab (who has a fantastic knowledge across the EFL) is that it’s en vogue to think that a young head-coach type is the answer to every manager change.  They will point at Carrick, Kompany, etc

I’d argue, the right answer is to have a plan, lined up across the club.

They don’t ever mention:

Mowbray

Rowett

Robins

do they?

Blinkered!!!

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

My view on the 3 penalty shouts:

1. Conway is clearly beyond Humphreys, who gets too close to the back of him, puts a hand on him, which is enough due to the proximity of the player chasing him to send him tumbling.  The only reason the ref doesn’t give it is because he knows he’s gonna have to send the Rotherham player off too.  His positioning wasn’t great, as he was in a line behind the two players…but that line of sight should’ve made it look even more clearcut.  Ref got it wrong
2. Having now seen it again, Hugill initiates contact my moving towards Vyner.  Vyner needs to be smarter and avoid Hugill’s clever play.  Contact is allowed.  Ref got it wrong
3. Just two bodies / legs coming together (Pring and Kelly) before either plays the ball.  If anything Kelly has gone through Pring to get to the ball.  No pen.  Ref got it right

 

I've only seen the Conway Pen in the Concourse at half time, I thought it wasn't but I'll have to wait and hope to see it again.

Funny enough Rotherham's Manager thinks you're wrong.
He said: “ There were three penalty incidents in the game, I think he’s got two decisions right."