View from the Dolman Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, Robbored said: A ‘tongue in cheek’ remark Jeez. The most unprofessional thing I ever saw GJ do was when he tried to trip up Chopra after he’d scored at AG and ran past the dug outs in celebration - the attempted trip was caught on cameras. Lucky for Chopra GJ had short legs, Lucky for GJ and the club as well. Had he succeeded the shit would have really hit the fan and GJ would have been sacked before long before he started brawling with his own players down at Argyle in the locker room. Another rewriting of history by @Robbored. 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 55 minutes ago, Harry said: I can confirm that LJ does not want this job. I understand he’s happy to have a period of time out of the game. His last 2 jobs have left him a little disillusioned and he’s enjoying a break from the game (and in particular, his recent experiences, which were not enjoyable). Probably the best thing for him. I would bet that with hindsight he wishes he'd had a break after leaving Hibs. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 Have a soft spot for FGR and am genuinely sorry to see them where they are. In saying that I am certainly no fan of their owner who in my mind needs to get to grips with reality instead of dictating to one and all what they should eat etc etc. They had been doing so well. Why has it suddenly gone tits up ? 39 minutes ago, Northern Red said: Probably the best thing for him. I would bet that with hindsight he wishes he'd had a break after leaving Hibs. And football needs a break from LJ 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, italian dave said: So, just to take this back to the context of my post, even if it destroyed that player? You’re still happy that it’s OK? Put it another way...say said player has been spoken to on many occasions behind closed doors, and everything has failed to motivate to him into action. No consequences, going through the motions, and the coach doesn't do anything more. Player eventually drops out of pro football as his reputation as a poor pro gets around. Same consequence. It's like having a child that constantly doesn't listen to your parental guidance, runs out in the street and gets knocked over. Shown some shocking footage that will upset them after words didn't work, could save them. Same logic. Hurty words offend. Depends on how the person reacts. If your player is ' destroyed' by words...is he mentally strong enough to actually be a Pro and accept criticism. I suggest he's in the wrong profession if he can't. He'll get shed loads from the fans to start with... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nest Egg Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, Robbored said: A ‘tongue in cheek’ remark Jeez. The most unprofessional thing I ever saw GJ do was when he tried to trip up Chopra after he’d scored at AG and ran past the dug outs in celebration - the attempted trip was caught on cameras. Lucky for Chopra GJ had short legs, Lucky for GJ and the club as well. Had he succeeded the shit would have really hit the fan and GJ would have been sacked before long before he started brawling with his own players down at Argyle in the locker room. Do you remember when he cooked and ate that orphan in the dugout at Wycombe away? I was always a fan of his but am still amazed he was not sacked for it 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeRed Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, View from the Dolman said: Another rewriting of history by @Robbored. Considering the thread is about FGR (a club Gary Johnson has never played for or managed) , Robbored has done quite well and took only until the 3rd page before he was able to work his obligatory anti Gary Johnson rhetoric into the thread, slagging him in not one but four posts in the thread!! The fire still burns deep within ! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 11 minutes ago, spudski said: Put it another way...say said player has been spoken to on many occasions behind closed doors, and everything has failed to motivate to him into action. No consequences, going through the motions, and the coach doesn't do anything more. Player eventually drops out of pro football as his reputation as a poor pro gets around. Same consequence. It's like having a child that constantly doesn't listen to your parental guidance, runs out in the street and gets knocked over. Shown some shocking footage that will upset them after words didn't work, could save them. Same logic. Hurty words offend. Depends on how the person reacts. If your player is ' destroyed' by words...is he mentally strong enough to actually be a Pro and accept criticism. I suggest he's in the wrong profession if he can't. He'll get shed loads from the fans to start with... None of which really answers the question Spud. Just sets up a whole load of ‘what if’ scenarios. I was simply picking up the comment that @Robbored made. And I think he’s right. In some circumstances, that very public criticism - humiliation even - could destroy a player. Because it can destroy confidence. You’ve said it yourself - people react differently. And to suggest that there are “no consequences” just because someone isn’t criticised in public is clearly nonsense. You must realise that. There are plenty of other ways of telling said player that their performance was unacceptable, what they need to do to change etc. It doesn’t HAVE to be done in public. And all I asked was whether, if the player involved was one who’d be affected in that way, would you still support his manager in calling him out in public. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, italian dave said: None of which really answers the question Spud. Just sets up a whole load of ‘what if’ scenarios. I was simply picking up the comment that @Robbored made. And I think he’s right. In some circumstances, that very public criticism - humiliation even - could destroy a player. Because it can destroy confidence. You’ve said it yourself - people react differently. And to suggest that there are “no consequences” just because someone isn’t criticised in public is clearly nonsense. You must realise that. There are plenty of other ways of telling said player that their performance was unacceptable, what they need to do to change etc. It doesn’t HAVE to be done in public. And all I asked was whether, if the player involved was one who’d be affected in that way, would you still support his manager in calling him out in public. You've not read my post thoroughly Dave. I've implied doing it after every other option behind closed doors. Last resort. My whole posts implies that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 5 minutes ago, spudski said: You've not read my post thoroughly Dave. I've implied doing it after every other option behind closed doors. Last resort. My whole posts implies that I’d suggest if you’d got to the stage of blunt talking behind closed doors , and there’s no reaction or response , you shouldn’t be picking said player. Also Deeney’s Rant (And that’s what it was) wasn’t even sensible criticism or observation , he appears to have set out to humiliate the player and makes him sound to all and sundry like a Sunday League Pub Player How anyone can think that might work or can be constructive is beyond me Troy Deeney to a tee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said: I’d suggest if you’d got to the stage of blunt talking behind closed doors , and there’s no reaction or response , you shouldn’t be picking said player. Also Deeney’s Rant (And that’s what it was) wasn’t even sensible criticism or observation , he appears to have set out to humiliate the player and makes him sound to all and sundry like a Sunday League Pub Player How anyone can think that might work or can be constructive is beyond me Troy Deeney to a tee If you've watched him...then he isn't far off. Sorry...but we just don't know what's been said behind closed doors. Last chance saloon so to speak. Deany gets sacked, player goes back to being awful, pulling a wage, happy to do so, and two fingers up to the fans. He spoke about various players...not just one. Anyone who's watched FGR this season will be pissed off with the players as well. Cosy club. Didn't help with Carey their either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 18 minutes ago, spudski said: You've not read my post thoroughly Dave. I've implied doing it after every other option behind closed doors. Last resort. My whole posts implies that What @Sheltons Army said!! Whatever has or hasn’t gone on before, I still don’t think public humiliation is going to help anyone in that situation. I just can’t believe we’re suggesting that people who struggle with confidence should just “man up”, on a forum where we head every page with recognition of the frailties many have with their mental health. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 5 minutes ago, spudski said: If you've watched him...then he isn't far off. Sorry...but we just don't know what's been said behind closed doors. Last chance saloon so to speak. Deany gets sacked, player goes back to being awful, pulling a wage, happy to do so, and two fingers up to the fans. He spoke about various players...not just one. Anyone who's watched FGR this season will be pissed off with the players as well. Cosy club. Didn't help with Carey their either. This is Troy Deeney Listen to his own accounts of his (Cringeworthy and unprofessional) behaviour when he wanted to force a move from Walsall and do you seriously think that his public rant is going to have a positive effect on his players - seriously ? Strong words , (Not a humiliation) behind closed doors is a massive gamble , to do it publicly - suicide and horrendous management 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 17 minutes ago, italian dave said: What @Sheltons Army said!! Whatever has or hasn’t gone on before, I still don’t think public humiliation is going to help anyone in that situation. I just can’t believe we’re suggesting that people who struggle with confidence should just “man up”, on a forum where we head every page with recognition of the frailties many have with their mental health. How do you know he struggles with confidence Dave? You've assumed that, and also said it ' may' destroy his career. A case of ifs and buts. If he has mental health problems...as suggested...get out of football. Sorry...but I'm sick and tired of excuses being made all the time for people. It's a sport that's like going to war. Run through brick walls etc etc. If players don't have mental strength like physical ability, then get out. Some careers aren't for all. 2 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, The Nest Egg said: Do you remember when he cooked and ate that orphan in the dugout at Wycombe away? I was always a fan of his but am still amazed he was not sacked for it Fake news. It was Walsall away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 16 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said: This is Troy Deeney Listen to his own accounts of his (Cringeworthy and unprofessional) behaviour when he wanted to force a move from Walsall and do you seriously think that his public rant is going to have a positive effect on his players - seriously ? Strong words , (Not a humiliation) behind closed doors is a massive gamble , to do it publicly - suicide and horrendous management I'm talking in General...not just at Deany. As a whole throughout the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 5 minutes ago, spudski said: I'm talking in General...not just at Deany. As a whole throughout the game. It’s all opinion but I can’t believe that you think it’s any form or grain of a good idea Theres a line , Ferguson beasted players behind doors but never in public , in public he defended them like a lion and I can hardly think of a manager whose ever done it in this way Its a no no , with very good reasons , and I can hardly think of a worse example in all my years You really aren’t going to have a positive effect on any of your players doing so and embarrass yourself in the process. The ironic thing is , if a manager had talked about Deeney like that in public to the media , he would probably ended up on a hospital Ward. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 9 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said: It’s all opinion but I can’t believe that you think it’s any form or grain of a good idea Theres a line , Ferguson beasted players behind doors but never in public , in public he defended them like a lion and I can hardly think of a manager whose ever done it in this way Its a no no , with very good reasons , and I can hardly think of a worse example in all my years You really aren’t going to have a positive effect on any of your players doing so and embarrass yourself in the process. The ironic thing is , if a manager had talked about Deeney like that in public to the media , he would probably ended up on a hospital Ward. I disagree...after all attempts behind closed doors to constructively criticise, then I'm all for calling out players taking the piss. If they are weak minded and can't handle it, then I wouldn't want them in my team. Kinnel...the opposition would be right in their ear during a game if they new they were weak minded. For every player that falls by the way side through hurty words, there are others that can rise up and take on the challenge and prove people wrong. Why are we now so soft about words... Are we now that weak minded. Not strong and resilient and driven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, spudski said: How do you know he struggles with confidence Dave? You've assumed that, and also said it ' may' destroy his career. A case of ifs and buts. If he has mental health problems...as suggested...get out of football. Sorry...but I'm sick and tired of excuses being made all the time for people. It's a sport that's like going to war. Run through brick walls etc etc. If players don't have mental strength like physical ability, then get out. Some careers aren't for all. I’m not and never have been talking about any specific “he”. I’ve already said that I know nothing about Dabo. But the conversation turned to a more general one about players being publicly slated by their manager. And about how, for some players that might be just what they need, and for others it might destroy them and wreck their confidence. And that a good manager can distinguish between the two and act accordingly. I’m still not entirely sure why that’s such an objectionable view, but you clearly don’t agree. And….are you serious? People with mental health problems shouldn’t be in football? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtrojan Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 (edited) 8 hours ago, Robbored said: A ‘tongue in cheek’ remark Jeez. The most unprofessional thing I ever saw GJ do was when he tried to trip up Chopra after he’d scored at AG and ran past the dug outs in celebration - the attempted trip was caught on cameras. Lucky for Chopra GJ had short legs, Lucky for GJ and the club as well. Had he succeeded the shit would have really hit the fan and GJ would have been sacked before long before he started brawling with his own players down at Argyle in the locker room. Your memory is poor ,as he didn’t attempt to trip him ,he did actually trip him ! Paul Hartley wasn’t very impressed as I remember. Edited January 19 by Redtrojan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 20 Admin Report Share Posted January 20 9 hours ago, Redtrojan said: Your memory is poor ,as he didn’t attempt to trip him ,he did actually trip him ! Paul Hartley wasn’t very impressed as I remember. 1 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open End Numb Legs Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 I don't know anything about Deeney but the best advice I heard was from Terry Venables talking about management. He said individual players responded individually. Pre match, some would need winding up, some would need calming down (he was referring to Gascoigne I believe). Taking that further, some respond well to a kick up the backside, some need an arm around the shoulder. That is how you get the best out of your team and it applies to business as well as sport IMO. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 All this talk about footballers mental attitudes. It's exactly the same in the outside world where some people have strong feelings, determined to succeed at everything they do and others who are content to drift along without any effort to change themselves. The former ones get to managerial posts whether they are suited or not. The latter end up sweeping the floor very badly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 10 hours ago, italian dave said: I’m not and never have been talking about any specific “he”. I’ve already said that I know nothing about Dabo. But the conversation turned to a more general one about players being publicly slated by their manager. And about how, for some players that might be just what they need, and for others it might destroy them and wreck their confidence. And that a good manager can distinguish between the two and act accordingly. I’m still not entirely sure why that’s such an objectionable view, but you clearly don’t agree. And….are you serious? People with mental health problems shouldn’t be in football? Thanks...and I agree a good man manager can distinguish what motivates a player. I'm not saying Deany is a good manager. What I'm saying is you need to be mentally resilient in football. Imo...if you can't brush off words of criticism publicly from anyone, then perhaps football isn't for you. As you get judged internally at work and externally by media and fans every day. And yes...if you have mental health problems due to not being able to take criticism...don't get into football, or get out of it. It's not good for them or the club. I can see it now...'we aren't playing young Bob or Billy as they are struggling with their mental health, due to being criticised for their performances. We aren't able to replace them as both are on three year contracts at £15K a week. So we'll just have to suck it up'... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, spudski said: Thanks...and I agree a good man manager can distinguish what motivates a player. I'm not saying Deany is a good manager. What I'm saying is you need to be mentally resilient in football. Imo...if you can't brush off words of criticism publicly from anyone, then perhaps football isn't for you. As you get judged internally at work and externally by media and fans every day. And yes...if you have mental health problems due to not being able to take criticism...don't get into football, or get out of it. It's not good for them or the club. I can see it now...'we aren't playing young Bob or Billy as they are struggling with their mental health, due to being criticised for their performances. We aren't able to replace them as both are on three year contracts at £15K a week. So we'll just have to suck it up'... We agree, I think, on that aspect of good management. And that’s really all I’m saying. If something will motivate a player, do it: but by the same token, if it will have the opposite effect, don’t do it! And I’m not suggesting that there aren’t occasions when someone’s mental health will be a barrier to them progressing in the game. But there are occasions when players who are supported in the right way can make progress. It’s no different to physical health really. Everyone and every situation will be different. If you’ve had a leg amputated then you’ll probably not make it as a professional footballer! But an ACL injury, managed properly, needn’t be a barrier. What you don’t need is someone to come along and kick you on the other knee - and that’s what publicly slating someone who struggles with confidence is like! Anyway, probably best we end this. The thread is meant to be about FGR, and at this rate we’ll still be debating it by the time they’ve sacked their next manager 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 11 hours ago, Redtrojan said: Your memory is poor ,as he didn’t attempt to trip him ,he did actually trip him ! Paul Hartley wasn’t very impressed as I remember. Not only did he actually trip him, but as I recall there wasn’t much in the way of shit hitting the fan as a consequence either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Rollason Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 3 hours ago, phantom said: I was there and the only bright spot of the whole day was GJ tripping that *** up. Glad he got no comeback, should have got an award imo. As for Bobbleheads memory, it seems selective when GJ is concerned....but never mind.. lots of us remember... and treat his pronouncements for what they're worth. Unfortunately the new ignore function doesn't allow you to hide content within a thread... mores the pity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 Dabo: Stayed on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 41 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Dabo: Stayed on! Good job there’s no VAR in League 2. Basically cleared out the opposition player after the ball had gone. At least a yellow, even at that level, for a really poor challenge. Is that what the naming and shaming was hoping for?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markthehorn Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 I see FGR got a useful point at Gillingham. Deeney will probably take credit for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeRed Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 (edited) Mike Flynn is the rumour for their - 4th? I've lost count - next manager according to the Stroud newspaper. As Deeney said following his sacking " The next bloke had better get it right in three weeks!" Edited January 20 by CodeRed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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