Max

[1960maaan]

3 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Sweeping is not natural. It is instruction. O'learys interventions have increased due to instruction. 

Exactly the point I was making.

5 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Max O'leary passing accuracy is amongst the worst in the division. 

Love to see that stats about passing accuracy and see the comparisons , what site do you use ?

[Cowshed]

Just now, 1960maaan said:

Exactly the point I was making.

Love to see that stats about passing accuracy and see the comparisons , what site do you use ?

You can check whoscoredwho. And this site - Championship Goalkeeper Stats | FBref.com

 

[Welcome To The Jungle]

I've got a lot of issues with the club, and for that reason have been an away fan only for almost 6 years now. However something the club has got right recently is the pathway from the academy to the first team. I'd rather watch local players like Max, who may not be world beaters, than a team of Mercenaries.

[Rob k]

1 minute ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I've got a lot of issues with the club, and for that reason have been an away fan only for almost 6 years now. However something the club has got right recently is the pathway from the academy to the first team. I'd rather watch local players like Max, who may not be world beaters, than a team of Mercenaries.

All players will want to do the best for themselves, that doesn’t make them mercenaries. What player bought through the academy has stayed once the lure of £££ and an opportunity to play at a higher level has been put in front of them?

[FNQ]

1 minute ago, Rob k said:

All players will want to do the best for themselves, that doesn’t make them mercenaries. What player bought through the academy has stayed once the lure of £££ and an opportunity to play at a higher level has been put in front of them?

None worth their salt..

[Selred]

45 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Much a prefer a steady Eddie, someone you know will give you 7 or 8 out of 10 every week. That was Maenpaa. 

O'Leary has been excellent in our cup ties, now calamitous. Unfortunately for him, the die is cast - he could have a dozen good games in a row but never shake the feeling that a cock up is just round the corner. 

So it's a No from me. On balance.   

Max was shocking in the first half against West Ham. All over the place. 

Don’t allow one amazing save clog your memory of that. 

[FNQ]

5 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I've got a lot of issues with the club, and for that reason have been an away fan only for almost 6 years now. However something the club has got right recently is the pathway from the academy to the first team. I'd rather watch local players like Max, who may not be world beaters, than a team of Mercenaries.

The club had certainly got the pathway right in recent times.. not so sure now though, it’s a struggle to put the kids on the bench at the moment let alone give them a go.

[DirtySanchez]

Needs to get his consistency up, kicking is poor - but all things that can improve. He could do better with his concentration and be more commanding.

[Steve Watts]

10 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

The logic is this. Fans form an opinion on a player early and then don’t want to be proved wrong so they give that player a hard time in a desperate bid to be proved correct. 

*cough*Zak Vyner*cough*

There are no doubt countless other examples of fans being very open to being proved wrong, or at least having their opinions changed, on players.

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Or….

evaluate performance in each game, comment on that and also hold an overall opinion.

Tonight he cost us with a bad error for their equaliser.

Last week he was decent v Forest

etc

Overall, he’s a decent enough Champ keeper.

(all imho)

 

I'd argue that he could have come out to claim the cross on the first equaliser as well.  It came right across the edge of his six yard box at a very decent height for him, but he was rooted to his line.  Command of the 6 yare box is one of his biggest weaknesses, and leads to many of the "top drawer saves" he makes that he shouldn't have to.

George Tanner is a prime example of what Max needs if we aren't to automatically replace him.  Competition.  Georges form has markedly improved with the return to fitness of Ross McCrorie, to the level that Manning has had to find a way to get them both into the team.

 

[Baldyman]

I’ve been on the fence with Max but BOTH goals last night were down to poor goalkeeping . For the first goal he dived/fell without actually stretching his arm to reach the ball ( which he could have done comfortably ) and the second he should have pushed round the post or held it comfortably. I’d say that’s probably 9/10 points directly attributed to Max this season so far but is that normal for most keepers by Feb ? Honestly don’t know . 

[DirtySanchez]

Anyone going to mention the very poor defending by Pring and Dickie for the first or just blame the shot stopper?

[Spike]

46 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Max O'leary passing accuracy is amongst the worst in the division. 

But this includes long kicks where for the most part we have no one to aim for as very few of our attacking players have the strength and size to take the pass. 

I've been saying for ages that Maxs passing has been improving but the issue is we don't have the right players to revive a long high kick and so more often than not a defender will win the challenge. This is one of the reasons we try to pass the ball around rather than lump it up the pitch. If we had a center back playing the passes instead of Max they'd probably have a massive drop in their completed passes too. 

Max is going to be another one of these players who leaves us and the replacement will struggle to play as a sweeper keeper and we'll be on here having a discussion on "why did we let Max go?", "he could play the sweeper role" "why is it so hard to find a good shot stopper who can also play the sweeper role?". 

The simple fact is that if there is a great shot stopper who can command his defense and has great distribution he's most likely playing at a higher level or will be soon enough. I used to be a goalkeeper and it genuinely irks me how some fans seem to think it's a  perfectly simple task to play like an outfield player whilst also having a totally different set of skills that no other player needs to develop and being the single most criticised player the second something goes wrong. 

Every time Vyner makes a mistake our fans say "oh but he's improved so much" and whilst they are not wrong the difference is that a defender can make a mistake and still get bailed out so they get a pass unless it becomes consistent. A defender can also be dropped and given time to work on their game and allow them not to feel pressured, meanwhile goalkeepers who get dropped sometimes never find their way back into the team and what's worse in our situation is Max couldn't have a game or two off to refocus himself if he wanted to because we don't have anyone who is anywhere near his level at the club to take his place. 

I get our fans are frustrated when he does make a mistake but it's already at a point that he gets the blame for many things that are not his fault so when he has a bad game our fans are frothing at the mouth to lay into him. 

I do hope he leaves at the end of the season, not because I don't rate him but because I feel like he'll never get the support from our fans and he will be more valued elsewhere. I do hope we find a suitable replacement but if I were a keeper who isn't comfortable in every aspect of his game and skilled in all of them too I wouldn't come near this club. 

[Midred]

5 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said:

Anyone going to mention the very poor defending by Pring and Dickie for the first or just blame the shot stopper?

I'd blame the linesman who missed the ball crossing the line just before!

[DirtySanchez]

 

3 minutes ago, Midred said:

I'd blame the linesman who missed the ball crossing the line just before!

I blame the board and Tinnion for that one!

Any footage of that?

[pillred]

9 hours ago, Negan said:

At what point does saying this get exhausting? He’s a number 2 at best. 

He's a number 2? a bit harsh :laugh:.

[Jacki]

I haven’t read this thread in detail so forgive me if I’m repeating what others have said.

For me, O’Leary is the perfect illustration of where we are as a club. He’s a mid table Championship player in a mid table Championship side. He’s inconsistent like many of our players and has made a number of howlers this season that have cost us dear. In other games he’s been very good. The other thing I would say about him is that his decision making can be very ‘off’ at times. He’s an excellent number two and a mid table level number one at this level.

Final thing I’d say is that not signing someone to compete with O’Leary is a mistake and I’ve been saying that all season. Anyone but the very best in sport in sport who has nobody pushing them for their spot will be too comfortable and I think there’s a real danger of that here. 

[Packman]

We've actually got a very good defensive record this season, and Max has been a big part of that. It’s the other end of the pitch that needs our attention/money being spent.

[transfer reader]

28 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

I’ve been on the fence with Max but BOTH goals last night were down to poor goalkeeping . For the first goal he dived/fell without actually stretching his arm to reach the ball ( which he could have done comfortably ) and the second he should have pushed round the post or held it comfortably. I’d say that’s probably 9/10 points directly attributed to Max this season so far but is that normal for most keepers by Feb ? Honestly don’t know . 

Max was also bailed out last night by a blocked shot when he had a rush of blood and came out, didn't clear well and left a Cov player with a shot at an empty net, albeit from 20 yards out.

[LondonBristolian]

Just now, Jacki said:

I haven’t read this thread in detail so forgive me if I’m repeating what others have said.

For me, O’Leary is the perfect illustration of where we are as a club. He’s a mid table Championship player in a mid table Championship side. He’s inconsistent like many of our players and has made a number of howlers this season that have cost us dear. In other games he’s been very good. The other thing I would say about him is that his decision making can be very ‘off’ at times. He’s an excellent number two and a mid table level number one at this level.

Final thing I’d say is that not signing someone to compete with O’Leary is a mistake and I’ve been saying that all season. Anyone but the very best in sport in sport who has nobody pushing them for their spot will be too comfortable and I think there’s a real danger of that here. 

I think this is a very fair post and I'd agree, albeit with a couple of caveats

1) As others have said, mistakes can either be down to ability or what's being asked of the player. I think O'Leary was a very decent Championship Goalkeeper for how we played under Pearson but, as others have noted, he seems to be making more mistakes and that may be because his instructions have changed. It may be he needs time to adapt to how Manning wants him to play, or it may be he was the right goalkeeper under Pearson but not under Manning.

2) I agree on competition but firstly we don't know what Manning's opinion of Bajic is. It might be there's a belief that Bajic is not far away from competing for a first team place but otherwise I'd agree we need competition. At the same time, both Pearson and Manning have been working under limited budgets and I do understand why other areas have been prioritised.

3) What frustrates me about this thread in general - and I know I'm replying to a comment that is not saying this at all - is the whole "O'Leary is not a Championship goalkeeper" argument. He's closing in on 100 Championship appearances under 4 different managers. That is,  by any reasonable definition, a Championship goalkeeper. I agree he's not an outstanding Championship goalkeeper but I don't feel he has anything to prove to anyone in terms of his ability to get selected at this level. 

[petehinton]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Much a prefer a steady Eddie, someone you know will give you 7 or 8 out of 10 every week. That was Maenpaa. 

O'Leary has been excellent in our cup ties, now calamitous. Unfortunately for him, the die is cast - he could have a dozen good games in a row but never shake the feeling that a cock up is just round the corner. 

So it's a No from me. On balance.   

It was Maenpaa…when he was ever actually fit to play!

[Cowshed]

19 minutes ago, Spike said:

But this includes long kicks where for the most part we have no one to aim for as very few of our attacking players have the strength and size to take the pass. 

 

But this includes? Range. Variety of passes x length. Short and long and multiple surfaces (striking parts of the foot). 

Considering the team intent, the teams build up play what are the fundamental qualities necessary in the number one? Average ability to distribute the ball, below average or good? 

Do Max O'Leary qualities make him a suitable player for a possession based team playing positional football? 

 

 

[Roadrunner]

Max has made some great saves over the season. As somebody has said well thats he job thats what he is payed for. He has also cost us some points, it happens. Nigel dropped Bentley and gave Max his chance. I feel Max needs to be droped and Sefan given a run of  games. then by the end of the season we could say we have two very good goalkeppers or we move them both on. Then spend some big money getting in the best goalkepper we can afford. I remember Brian Clough saying Peter Shilton gave Forest 20 points a season. All good sides are built from the back, so lets start with number 1.

[Littlesh*t]

7 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Max has made some great saves over the season. As somebody has said well thats he job thats what he is payed for. He has also cost us some points, it happens. Nigel dropped Bentley and gave Max his chance. I feel Max needs to be droped and Sefan given a run of  games. then by the end of the season we could say we have two very good goalkeppers or we move them both on. Then spend some big money getting in the best goalkepper we can afford. I remember Brian Clough saying Peter Shilton gave Forest 20 points a season. All good sides are built from the back, so lets start with number 1.

Think the difference is bentley I believe was dropped because he was on far more money and wasn't the future of the club.

If we drop Max we aren't saving a lot and I am sure the coaches already know if Sefan is up to it or not. If we are getting a new keeper in at any point I think that decision will already be made.

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I've got a lot of issues with the club, and for that reason have been an away fan only for almost 6 years now. However something the club has got right recently is the pathway from the academy to the first team. I'd rather watch local players like Max, who may not be world beaters, than a team of Mercenaries.

Personally, I would rather watch the best players we can afford, whether they be born in Whitchurch or Timbuktu. 

[Open End Numb Legs]

I just hope his team mates and coaches are more supportive than we are!

I know, this is a fans forum and we are entitled to criticise, but I try not to blame individuals, as easy as it might be.

We can't change the past, how he plays in the next couple of games though is very important and giving him our support can really help him and our season.

[Wokingham Red]

26 minutes ago, Jacki said:

I haven’t read this thread in detail so forgive me if I’m repeating what others have said.

For me, O’Leary is the perfect illustration of where we are as a club. He’s a mid table Championship player in a mid table Championship side. He’s inconsistent like many of our players and has made a number of howlers this season that have cost us dear. In other games he’s been very good. The other thing I would say about him is that his decision making can be very ‘off’ at times. He’s an excellent number two and a mid table level number one at this level.

Final thing I’d say is that not signing someone to compete with O’Leary is a mistake and I’ve been saying that all season. Anyone but the very best in sport in sport who has nobody pushing them for their spot will be too comfortable and I think there’s a real danger of that here. 

I was going to add my input on Max but this post completely nails it. Perfectly depressing. 

[City oz]

1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Personally, I would rather watch the best players we can afford, whether they be born in Whitchurch or Timbuktu. 

Nothing wrong with Whitchurch mate

[ashton_fan]

I think Max is still improving, he's much better catching crosses than he used to be. Thought he had a good game last night, with the second goal that shot was swerving and bounced just in front of him, he got his body behind it and it was unfortunate the rebound went to one of their players.

I don't know what it is about OTIB and our keepers but whoever we have in goal is deemed not good enough, it was the same with Bentley, Frankie etc.. I think Max is the best we've had for a while, all keepers make howlers every now and then, you only have to watch Prem teams on MOTD and you see them most weeks. We have to be realistic about the level of keeper we're going to get as a mid-Championship team, I think Max is better than most at this level. 

[BCFCGav]

3 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Personally, I would rather watch the best players we can afford, whether they be born in Whitchurch or Timbuktu. 

I agree with this, though know it's an unpopular opinion. It's nice having local lads in the team but if there are better players about... also worth noting, our local lads are often more than happy to leave when the money comes! Praying Pring never falls into that category. We need him.

[City oz]

Just now, ashton_fan said:

I think Max is still improving, he's much better catching crosses than he used to be. Thought he had a good game last night, with the second goal that shot was swerving and bounced just in front of him, he got his body behind it and it was unfortunate the rebound went to one of their players.

I don't know what it is about OTIB and our keepers but whoever we have in goal is deemed not good enough, it was the same with Bentley, Frankie etc.. I think Max is the best we've had for a while, all keepers make howlers every now and then, you only have to watch Prem teams on MOTD and you see them most weeks. We have to be realistic about the level of keeper we're going to get as a mid-Championship team, I think Max is better than most at this level. 

He is good but not good. Championship mid table team then he is ok.If we push farther, I'm afraid he's out of his comfort zone and skill set.