Marina's Rolls Royce Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, billywedlock said: So how long do people think Flint, Kodja , Smith or Bryan will be happy with their contracts if the club pay Tomlin that ? We will lose squad harmony and return to where we were when we last got relegated. We need to find the next Tomlin, the one who has yet to be signed for a Prem side on Prem wages. It is not the single contract but the squad as a whole that is impacted by breaking out of a wage structure. It is the same at Arsenal/Man U/ Chelsea . We cannot afford it and it is exactly what went wrong in the past. We have been successful under GJ and SC when we have had players, hungry, working together and united. It always goes wrong when we try and go out of that scheme but without the budget to do it correctly. If Tomlin came in at a huge salary, the club will need to rewrite contracts for another existing 4 or 5 key players, or you get resentment. I sincerely hope we have learn that lesson. If by buying Tomlin as well as a few others it smashes our wage structure and puts into reverse everything SL has warned against BUT it guarantees us a place in the Prem then it's worth it. Trouble is there is no such guarantee. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that Lee Tomlin may be best left to a club who can easily afford him unless he's prepared to earn a lot less. The other variable in this whole scenario is a loss of form or injury. Personally, I'd be happy for us to just make sure we have a squad which makes us competitive in the top half of our Division and then kick on from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 22 minutes ago, billywedlock said: So how long do people think Flint, Kodja , Smith or Bryan will be happy with their contracts if the club pay Tomlin that ? We will lose squad harmony and return to where we were when we last got relegated. We need to find the next Tomlin, the one who has yet to be signed for a Prem side on Prem wages. It is not the single contract but the squad as a whole that is impacted by breaking out of a wage structure. It is the same at Arsenal/Man U/ Chelsea . We cannot afford it and it is exactly what went wrong in the past. We have been successful under GJ and SC when we have had players, hungry, working together and united. It always goes wrong when we try and go out of that scheme but without the budget to do it correctly. If Tomlin came in at a huge salary, the club will need to rewrite contracts for another existing 4 or 5 key players, or you get resentment. I sincerely hope we have learnt that lesson. Depends on the player and their personality. Wasn't it Gary Neville who never had an agent and accepted the contract put in front of him rather than concerned himself with how much he was paid relative to others? Personally, I think Flint, Smith and Bryan would be well placed to recognise that once they've won championship player of the season, been promoted with a team from this division then they might command the same wedge. Until then, justifiably, LT earns more. Kodjia might well feel aggrieved, but I would think we're probably looking to renegotiate his deal around Xmas anyway to keep his harmony and probably get another year on the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 29 minutes ago, billywedlock said: So how long do people think Flint, Kodja , Smith or Bryan will be happy with their contracts if the club pay Tomlin that ? We will lose squad harmony and return to where we were when we last got relegated. We need to find the next Tomlin, the one who has yet to be signed for a Prem side on Prem wages. It is not the single contract but the squad as a whole that is impacted by breaking out of a wage structure. It is the same at Arsenal/Man U/ Chelsea . We cannot afford it and it is exactly what went wrong in the past. We have been successful under GJ and SC when we have had players, hungry, working together and united. It always goes wrong when we try and go out of that scheme but without the budget to do it correctly. If Tomlin came in at a huge salary, the club will need to rewrite contracts for another existing 4 or 5 key players, or you get resentment. I sincerely hope we have learnt that lesson. Well I think only Kodjia would have a right to be upset but only him. As I said before I believe Tomlin is the type of player that can make everyone worth a bit more because he is so closely watched by opposition. You're going to have pay more to certain players if you want to improve as a team. Paying him is ok for me as he's proven. I'm wouldn't pay him his 30k but if he could accept 20k then it isn't really a gamble. I think Smith, Bryan, Flint and co would be quite alright with it if it helps them find bigger wages or clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 8 minutes ago, 29AR said: Depends on the player and their personality. Wasn't it Gary Neville who never had an agent and accepted the contract put in front of him rather than concerned himself with how much he was paid relative to others? Personally, I think Flint, Smith and Bryan would be well placed to recognise that once they've won championship player of the season, been promoted with a team from this division then they might command the same wedge. Until then, justifiably, LT earns more. Kodjia might well feel aggrieved, but I would think we're probably looking to renegotiate his deal around Xmas anyway to keep his harmony and probably get another year on the deal. I think it was Paul Scholes but your point remains the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Isn't it the same at EVERY club, your top players earn the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 10 minutes ago, Gazred said: I think it was Paul Scholes but your point remains the same. And Neville. Shows the types of personalities they had at United. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawberry2157. Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 If you watch the video above he says even when he was at Rushden he was willing to turn down boro because he was happy. He is was on £300 and boro were offering £500. WEveryone has different priorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 They need to worry about getting better of someone is on more than them. Let's be real though, Tomlin being here should put us at least around 12th. That alone will put players in a better bargaining position for money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargent Pepper Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Major Isewater said: I don't care too much for money , money can't buy you love . I've heard that before somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 1 hour ago, mozo said: True, but most employees don't have greedy agents managing their contract negotiations. On another topic, I worry about having one player on much higher wages to the rest. Could it lead to resentment if he didn't pull his weight in training or went on a twitter rant. If playing with better players increases the chances for the existing squad to have more success , then I'm sure most would accept it . It shows that the club is ambitious and can improve their personal status as the level of the team progresses. Playing with and against better individuals improves their performance and their value , not too mention more chance of some silverware and more win bonuses. Anyone who does n't like the challenge is not the type of athlète I would want at my club . In short , if we can sign better players and not risk the future of the club then we should do it , tough titty to those weak ones who wish to hold us back . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 5 minutes ago, NeilS said: Be careful what you wish for, we have been down this road before, SL is acutely aware of that. Stuff the get rich quick merchants, I want City to evolve with young talent that has been nurtured in the correct manner. Of course we need to buy in occasionally, but we cannot let one player's salary disrupt the structure. Not a fan of these players that continually look for the biggest pay day, not including LT in that ,but it can be the thin edge of the wedge. Problem is grass is always greener, or so it seems, but this is football to-day, managers last about 6 months, players come and go, it's all a recipe for failure, Man U built on a solid foundation, but money talks, and greed normally gets the better of common sense. I give you Leicester City FC Champions of the Premier League 2015 /2016, success built on team work, and hard work, can't argue with that, but some will... Next... Leicester City who only spent 50 million on transfers . Came up the hard way ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said: And Neville. Shows the types of personalities they had at United. It also shows that if you are already earning what is a crazy amount of money that you may not be quite so bothered if others earn even more. I've heard Tomlin's comment about not being bothered by money, well that is far, far easier to say on £30k a week than it is on £30k a year. Just say Flint is on £8k a week, (I've no idea if he is, but that's an educated guess), why on earth should our current player of the year be happy with earning just over a quarter of a team mate? No one expects complete parity but this is far too large a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 7 minutes ago, GrahamC said: It also shows that if you are already earning what is a crazy amount of money that you may not be quite so bothered if others earn even more. I've heard Tomlin's comment about not being bothered by money, well that is far, far easier to say on £30k a week than it is on £30k a year. Just say Flint is on £8k a week, (I've no idea if he is, but that's an educated guess), why on earth should our current player of the year be happy with earning just over a quarter of a team mate? No one expects complete parity but this is far too large a difference. Understand the point but the reality is that Tomlin is a much, much better footballer than Flint. I imagine Suarez is on a fair chunk more than Pique despite being equally good footballers in their own roles. Whether the rest of the squad like it or not, they do not play football at the same level as Tomlin. Perhaps the question is why would Tomlin be happy earning close to what the others earn when he's significantly better at his job?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatalist Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 I would be pleased to see Tomlin here next year, but not at ANY cost. We cannot just keep pushing the amount we pay up and up, and frankly I can't see how giving a signing on fee or bonuses is any different - he still gets more over the contract. People seem happy to say we should be paying mind-boggling amounts, easy to say when its not your money. I've never received £30,000 a year, let alone a week, every week for 3 or 4 years. It's just like being at an auction, you really want something, but get carried away, watching the price go up and up, past the amount you intended to spend. Sometimes you just have to give up and try somewhere else. Tomlin could be central to our season, but should we put all (or at least most) of our eggs in one basket? What if he got injured in the first game, or lost form, or had another fall out with management? If we had never heard of him, we would be planning a different line up and a different approach. Maybe we will have to admit that he is not the only way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 I heard we are signing some one at some point in the future........ yes I'm bored, lets hope we get some one in soon so we can concentrate on that, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider-manc Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 36 minutes ago, NeilS said: Be careful what you wish for, we have been down this road before, SL is acutely aware of that. Stuff the get rich quick merchants, I want City to evolve with young talent that has been nurtured in the correct manner. Of course we need to buy in occasionally, but we cannot let one player's salary disrupt the structure. Not a fan of these players that continually look for the biggest pay day, not including LT in that ,but it can be the thin edge of the wedge. Problem is grass is always greener, or so it seems, but this is football to-day, managers last about 6 months, players come and go, it's all a recipe for failure, Man U built on a solid foundation, but money talks, and greed normally gets the better of common sense. I give you Leicester City FC Champions of the Premier League 2015 /2016, success built on team work, and hard work, can't argue with that, but some will... Next... So that would be the Leicester City who flaunted the FFP rules to get out of the championship in the first place or the Manchester United that spent huge sums of money (for the time) on the foundation of the first team to win the premier league and have since broken more transfer records than any other British team? (I actually kind of agree with what your saying- Just disagree with your two examples ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 If Tomlin is on 10k more than the players around him but his experience, guidance etc helps to better our current players then we could literally be saving millions on transfer fees. Ifs & buts BUT imagine Tomlin taking Freeman under his wing & helping him become the player we saw last year, but in this league. That would be worth his wages alone, that's without helping other players improve too. Obviously he's not a coach but he was the only player we had on loan beyond the back 4 since January & what a turn around it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Mr Charisma will be going the negotiations. He's experienced in dealing with agents and won't budge from his financial cap. If Tomlin goes elsewhere for a bigger wedge then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted June 8, 2016 Admin Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 10 minutes ago, Robbored said: Mr Charisma will be going the negotiations. He's experienced in dealing with agents and won't budge from his financial cap. If Tomlin goes elsewhere for a bigger wedge then so be it. That's the whole point - the only advantage we have over other potential buyers is that he knows our set up and what we are about After that it is down to Mark Ashton and what we can offer - if that comes up short, move on and get someone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 5 hours ago, Major Isewater said: Just a little thought , if Tomlin is offered say the paltry sum of 20,000 a week in place of his 30,000 at Bournemouth, if he holds out for à couple of months before signing that's a nice, 80,000 in the bank for being patient ! Why would he hurry to sign ? Because we would almost cetainly get fed up of waiting and go elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 4 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said: Yes it depends but I have never heard of a club contributing to a player's wages after he has been sold so is no longer in contract. You couldn't do it direct to the player (they'd have to be contracted as a player to two football clubs at the same time, which you can't do) so it would need to be to the club. There would most likely be a one-off cash settlement to the player making up the difference between their current wages for the remainder of their contract and those that the buying club will be paying. Or the player simply takes a pay cut in order to progress his career. Something like this with JET and Ipswich wasn`t there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 16 minutes ago, Robbored said: Mr Charisma will be going the negotiations. He's experienced in dealing with agents and won't budge from his financial cap. If Tomlin goes elsewhere for a bigger wedge then so be it. Out of interest- why do you always refer to Mark Ashton as Mr Charisma? I suspect it's unlikely meant as a compliment. Dare I ask what issue you have with him? He seems to be doing a fair job and a bit early days to come up with cynical pseudonym- even for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 7 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said: Out of interest- why do you always refer to Mark Ashton as Mr Charisma? I suspect it's unlikely meant as a compliment. Dare I ask what issue you have with him? He seems to be doing a fair job and a bit early days to come up with cynical pseudonym- even for you. I thought he was referring to SOD . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said: Understand the point but the reality is that Tomlin is a much, much better footballer than Flint. I imagine Suarez is on a fair chunk more than Pique despite being equally good footballers in their own roles. Whether the rest of the squad like it or not, they do not play football at the same level as Tomlin. Perhaps the question is why would Tomlin be happy earning close to what the others earn when he's significantly better at his job?! Much better technical footballer, goes without saying - but would be on a par with Flint in his importance to the team I get the point you're making, but if Tomlin comes in on £20k/wk (for example) and I'm Flint (lets agree with @GrahamC and I'm on £8k/wk) then my agent is asking some serious questions of Mr Ashton and co I'd love Tomlin back, but we have other areas than need help as well, it can't be all in on Tomlin and hope he can do it all on his own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 5 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: I thought he was referring to SOD . Well I suppose when guessing which person connected to BCFC past or present is potentially in Robbo's caustic firing line then it could be anyone from the tea lady to John Atyeo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 5 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said: Yes it depends but I have never heard of a club contributing to a player's wages after he has been sold so is no longer in contract. You couldn't do it direct to the player (they'd have to be contracted as a player to two football clubs at the same time, which you can't do) so it would need to be to the club. There would most likely be a one-off cash settlement to the player making up the difference between their current wages for the remainder of their contract and those that the buying club will be paying. Or the player simply takes a pay cut in order to progress his career. It wouldn't need to have two concurrent contracts because the payments from the selling club to the player would not be wages; they'd be compensation payments for breach of a contractual agreement between selling club and player. How the payment of the compensation is structured doesn't really matter (unless it's provided for in the contract). Whether it be over time or up front. I would imagine what's efficient for tax purposes might be one of the drivers behind how it is paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, NeilS said: You didn't understand my comments. I think he did, and he said he kind of agreed with you, but also disagreed a little Maybe you should read the comments before you give back a terse one liner. People are allowed alternative views Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 10 minutes ago, Woodsy said: Much better technical footballer, goes without saying - but would be on a par with Flint in his importance to the team I get the point you're making, but if Tomlin comes in on £20k/wk (for example) and I'm Flint (lets agree with @GrahamC and I'm on £8k/wk) then my agent is asking some serious questions of Mr Ashton and co I'd love Tomlin back, but we have other areas than need help as well, it can't be all in on Tomlin and hope he can do it all on his own Yeah point taken but Flint was still one half of the third worst defence in the league last year. Tomlin is head and shoulders on another plain to the rest of the team in terms of ability and in most workplaces, the more talented members of the team get the bigger wedge. The person posting invoices and chasing debt is just as important to the day to day operation of my workplace as the sales director in terms of making sure everything still runs smoothly, but one's on £20k a year and ones on £80k. Just the way of things! Different skills are worth different remuneration in any workplace, and forwards - rightly or wrongly - tend to get most of the glory in football! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 6 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Yeah point taken but Flint was still one half of the third worst defence in the league last year. Tomlin is head and shoulders on another plain to the rest of the team in terms of ability and in most workplaces, the more talented members of the team get the bigger wedge. The person posting invoices and chasing debt is just as important to the day to day operation of my workplace as the sales director in terms of making sure everything still runs smoothly, but one's on £20k a year and ones on £80k. Just the way of things! Different skills are worth different remuneration in any workplace, and forwards - rightly or wrongly - tend to get most of the glory in football! Can't argue with any of that, but I think people in an office environment accept it a little easier (not all the time!) than sports people, especially two who are nailed on first teamers if fit I think Flint may argue he was 1/5th of the 3rd worst defence as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, Woodsy said: Can't argue with any of that, but I think people in an office environment accept it a little easier (not all the time!) than sports people, especially two who are nailed on first teamers if fit I think Flint may argue he was 1/5th of the 3rd worst defence as well Lucky I'm not an accountant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.