054123 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 I thought it didn't help playing a Russian side at the start when they were up for the fight compared to playing them at the end when they did not give a shit (see the tracking back when Taylor gets the ball. They stop straight away) and playing Slovakia at the end when they set out for nothing more than a point compared to the opening game when it was up for grabs and they felt they could go at the Welsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, 054123 said: I thought it didn't help playing a Russian side at the start when they were up for the fight compared to playing them at the end when they did not give a shit (see the tracking back when Taylor gets the ball. They stop straight away) and playing Slovakia at the end when they set out for nothing more than a point compared to the opening game when it was up for grabs and they felt they could go at the Welsh. The excuses are wearing a bit thin now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 So, my thoughts on reflection. We have emerged unbeaten from the group. It's not the disaster some seem to think it is. We haven't played brilliantly, but our ball retention has been much improved on previous tournaments. We lack the quality of the very best teams to find a way through massed ranks of defence when teams put 11 men behind the ball. Comparisons with Wales are not straightforward as the opposition set up very differently against them than they did against - Wales had space to work in, whereas both Russia and Slovakia parked the bus against us. The circumstances were also different; Slovakia clearly played for a point against us, which they couldn't do against Wales, and by the time Russia played Wales they appeared to have given up completely. However, these are not excuses for our failure to beat both those teams, which we should have done. And everyone seems to have forgotten that we did actually beat the Welsh! I actually fancy England's forward play to improve in the next round, when the opposition won't just be able to put 11 men behind the ball. The likes of Vardy and Sturridge should benefit from the extra space. But the big unknown is how our defence will do, having been barely tested in the last three games. Especially concerning should we face Ronaldo and co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said: So, my thoughts on reflection. We have emerged unbeaten from the group. It's not the disaster some seem to think it is. We haven't played brilliantly, but our ball retention has been much improved on previous tournaments. We lack the quality of the very best teams to find a way through massed ranks of defence when teams put 11 men behind the ball. Comparisons with Wales are not straightforward as the opposition set up very differently against them than they did against - Wales had space to work in, whereas both Russia and Slovakia parked the bus against us. The circumstances were also different; Slovakia clearly played for a point against us, which they couldn't do against Wales, and by the time Russia played Wales they appeared to have given up completely. However, these are not excuses for our failure to beat both those teams, which we should have done. And everyone seems to have forgotten that we did actually beat the Welsh! I actually fancy England's forward play to improve in the next round, when the opposition won't just be able to put 11 men behind the ball. The likes of Vardy and Sturridge should benefit from the extra space. But the big unknown is how our defence will do, having been barely tested in the last three games. Especially concerning should we face Ronaldo and co. You certainly aren't going to break down teams with a tempo as slow as ours, Bizarre decision to throw Kane on instead of Rashford as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said: So, my thoughts on reflection. We have emerged unbeaten from the group. It's not the disaster some seem to think it is. We haven't played brilliantly, but our ball retention has been much improved on previous tournaments. We lack the quality of the very best teams to find a way through massed ranks of defence when teams put 11 men behind the ball. Comparisons with Wales are not straightforward as the opposition set up very differently against them than they did against - Wales had space to work in, whereas both Russia and Slovakia parked the bus against us. The circumstances were also different; Slovakia clearly played for a point against us, which they couldn't do against Wales, and by the time Russia played Wales they appeared to have given up completely. However, these are not excuses for our failure to beat both those teams, which we should have done. And everyone seems to have forgotten that we did actually beat the Welsh! I actually fancy England's forward play to improve in the next round, when the opposition won't just be able to put 11 men behind the ball. The likes of Vardy and Sturridge should benefit from the extra space. But the big unknown is how our defence will do, having been barely tested in the last three games. Especially concerning should we face Ronaldo and co. Its not beating Russia where we balls'd up...may work in our favour though?!...Full backs are OK,its the two in the middle that worry,especially Cahill-not always positionally aware and will be found out v better teams.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 10 hours ago, RedDave said: Roy quote "Henderson had a splendid game" In fairness, Wilshere's performance made Henderson look like Xavi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 19 minutes ago, 054123 said: I thought it didn't help playing a Russian side at the start when they were up for the fight compared to playing them at the end when they did not give a shit (see the tracking back when Taylor gets the ball. They stop straight away) and playing Slovakia at the end when they set out for nothing more than a point compared to the opening game when it was up for grabs and they felt they could go at the Welsh. Knowing the Russians as we do, it would not surprise me if their players were on large bonuses to get a result against us and were told to throw the Wales game. Anything to get one over on us. They did afterall send a load of ex-military over to beat the shit out of our fans in Marseille. They weren't interested in turning up for the other games. Systematic doping in athletics, bought the 2018 WC etc. Their defending against Wales last night was match-fixing-esque. 6 minutes ago, Super said: You certainly aren't going to break down teams with a tempo as slow as ours, Bizarre decision to throw Kane on instead of Rashford as well. Yes, what an odd one that was. Bringing on the Premier League's top goalscorer towards the end when you are endlessly pumping balls into the box and winning loads of corners. Definitely should've chucked an inexperienced 18 year old on. As for tempo, I actually think we are playing better 'tournament football'. If you look at the top sides they do have periods where they slow things down and keep the ball. Sometimes you have to take time and probe and that's what we were trying to do. It was far more measured for large parts of the game than the usual fast football from us which leads to a high turnover of possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Knowing the Russians as we do, it would not surprise me if their players were on large bonuses to get a result against us and were told to throw the Wales game. Anything to get one over on us. They did afterall send a load of ex-military over to beat the shit out of our fans in Marseille. They weren't interested in turning up for the other games. Systematic doping in athletics, bought the 2018 WC etc. Their defending against Wales last night was match-fixing-esque. Yes, what an odd one that was. Bringing on the Premier League's top goalscorer towards the end when you are endlessly pumping balls into the box and winning loads of corners. Definitely should've chucked an inexperienced 18 year old on. As for tempo, I actually think we are playing better 'tournament football'. If you look at the top sides they do have periods where they slow things down and keep the ball. Sometimes you have to take time and probe and that's what we were trying to do. It was far more measured for large parts of the game than the usual fast football from us which leads to a high turnover of possession. You missed the wales game then when Rashford did more in 15 mins than Kane did all game. Michael Owen was inexperienced in 98.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abraham Romanovich Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 34 minutes ago, Super said: You certainly aren't going to break down teams with a tempo as slow as ours, Bizarre decision to throw Kane on instead of Rashford as well. Can someone please explain why it was a good idea to keep Vardy on and substitute Sturridge - Vardy's game is all about running into space and with a packed defence sitting back there was none available. We were really clueless should have attacked down the wings (big miss Danny Rose ) and not tried to play 1-2's through the middle - don't even get me started on our crossing when we had the chance . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said: Can someone please explain why it was a good idea to keep Vardy on and substitute Sturridge - Vardy's game is all about running into space and with a packed defence sitting back there was none available. We were really clueless should have attacked down the wings (big miss Danny Rose ) and not tried to play 1-2's through the middle - don't even get me started on our crossing when we had the chance . Sturridge isn't suited to that formation he spent far too much time coming deep, I agree though never saw Vardy at all second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider-manc Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 People are so fickle- less than a month ago people were fuming over Rooney's inclusion in the squad...... Now they are fuming as he was dropped from the team. Likewise everyone was calling for Kane to start, now they can't wait for him to be dropped/subbed. In fairness England had 30 odd attempts on goal playing against a team that never had any intention of leaving their own penalty area. A team that has beaten Spain in the last year and beaten Germany in Germany less than a month ago. People are reacting like we struggled to beat a team of part timers. The Slovakia team had players from Napoli, AC Milan, Liverpool, Hertha Berlin, Olympiakos and not to mention a few players who play in the top flight of Russian football. I'm annoyed we didn't finish above Wales- We should of won the group. But we dominated the ball, never looked in danger and created some chances (a couple of really good ones) with a squad that averages just 25 years old- Most of them are still learning their trade at this level. (and on the plus side I now get to watch the next round game that I would have missed had it been on the Saturday! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 31 minutes ago, Super said: You missed the wales game then when Rashford did more in 15 mins than Kane did all game. Michael Owen was inexperienced in 98.... I was there, in the stadium. Thought it was a bizarre substitution at the time and still do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 57 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said: I actually fancy England's forward play to improve in the next round, when the opposition won't just be able to put 11 men behind the ball. The likes of Vardy and Sturridge should benefit from the extra space. But the big unknown is how our defence will do, having been barely tested in the last three games. Especially concerning should we face Ronaldo and co. This is the crucial point for me. We have retained the ball and moved it as well as anybody in this tournament. Given the next match will be must win for both sides, it has to open up a bit for England. Getting a first goal will prove crucial if we play Hungary or Iceland, they will just shut up shop again if they get it. An opponent like Portugal would be a marker of where we are at. Our defence is yet to be tested, the Portuguese are not renowned for defending out games and play much more attacking football which will leave gaps for England to exploit. England have had to play 3 teams who effectively parked the bus, suffocating our play. Not too many sides in the world that would find it "easy" when teams line up like that. Still need to improve in the final third but it's the most promising we have looked in a tournament for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 54 minutes ago, Super said: You certainly aren't going to break down teams with a tempo as slow as ours, Bizarre decision to throw Kane on instead of Rashford as well. Higher tempo means high turnover of possession. For years we bemoan England's inability to keep hold of the ball, finally when we keep it better, we moan it's not fast enough. Look at Spain. They've won 3 of the last 4 tournaments and they stroll around the pitch at times. It's easy to say "play faster" but what does it actually mean when you're faced with 11 men behind the ball and an overwhelmingly defensive approach from the opposition? Once you're into the final third, you are faced with a mass of players. If you play with "tempo", does that mean just running at 100mph into a crowd of people? Sometimes you have to be patient and probe away. The time for high tempo is when you're playing a more even, end-to-end game and you want to break quickly and use the pace of players like Vardy to your advantage. We lack the quality to unlock a defence, I don't think tempo has much to do with it in one-sided games like last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Robert the bruce said: Passing was ponderous,they need to move the ball faster..held the ball OK but its so slow.and the crossing??how many times did we not beat the first man??..only Dier/Clyne with any credit.the lack of pace in our general game meant we couldn't cash in on Vardys sharpness..also felt too many changes took the edge off of momentum from Wales win..now its knockout,we really will see. Completely this. We were so static that it was like watching a subuteo game. Slovakia were happy with third and happy to put nine men behind the ball. In those situations you need to play with pace to be able to get past them. Who is the guy who has been doing that a lot - Kyle Walker. What was he doing last night. Watching the game from the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collier Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 3 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said: Which part of "I am not defending the performance and do accept we should have been capable of winning the group" did you not understand? The part where you felt the need to give us all your if excuses before you finally conceded the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 11 hours ago, BA14 RED said: Eddie Howe would be my choice Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, collier said: The part where you felt the need to give us all your if excuses before you finally conceded the point. Nope, not excuses. Just exploring why Wales might have found it easier than us whilst acknowledging that, despite that, we should still have been capable of winning those games. Not sure why objective analysis always has to be dismissed as "making excuses". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 19 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: In those situations you need to play with pace to be able to get past them. Who is the guy who has been doing that a lot - Kyle Walker. Too true squire.........after all Clyne never ever got anywhere near getting past his marker.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One BCFC Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 8 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said: Why? Great promising young coach. Got Bournemouth to the Premier League. Attack minded, positive and would be a breath of fresh air for England in my eyes instead of appointing another dinosaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashmir Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 22 minutes ago, BA14 RED said: Great promising young coach. Got Bournemouth to the Premier League. Attack minded, positive and would be a breath of fresh air for England in my eyes instead of appointing another dinosaur Failed at Burnley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said: I was there, in the stadium. Thought it was a bizarre substitution at the time and still do. Kane looks like he is feeling the effects of a tough season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One BCFC Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, Kashmir said: Failed at Burnley Not really, most the squad he brought in for Dyche to get them promotion. Thinking of the best English Managers available. Would have him over the likes of Big Sam and Pardew any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, cynic said: I lost count of the number of times Clyne got behind his marker - he had him on toast and they had to double mark him in the end. Didn't miss Walker at all. Absolutely, he times his runs into space fantastically well. Walker more likely to beat a man but both offer an attacking outlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, Gazred said: Absolutely, he times his runs into space fantastically well. Walker more likely to beat a man but both offer an attacking outlet. Really is little between the two. RB is a position we don't have to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashmir Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 12 minutes ago, BA14 RED said: Not really, most the squad he brought in for Dyche to get them promotion. Thinking of the best English Managers available. Would have him over the likes of Big Sam and Pardew any day. I think his time at Burnley is what's stopping bigger clubs take a chance on him. Needs to prove himself on a bigger stage before the England job IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Kashmir said: I think his time at Burnley is what's stopping bigger clubs take a chance on him. Needs to prove himself on a bigger stage before the England job IMO. I agree that Burnley are a bigger club than Bournemouth, but I'm not so sure that only finishing mid-table with Burnley in the championship supersedes attaining and retaining premier league football with Bournemouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Anyone still think Rose is not our best choice at left back, if you are I think you are basing it on the 18 year old playing out of position for us several years ago. I can't believe I have seen anyone so completely out of his depth than Bertrand last night, I was surprised that Roy took such a risk leaving him on, I thought he was one tackle away from being sent off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted June 21, 2016 Admin Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Anyone else taken a barrage of nonsense comments from the Welsh overnight? I'm guessing that they are also sadly suffering from "Swindon Syndrome" where support assume that they have won / achieved something without being halfway through a campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: Anyone still think Rose is not our best choice at left back, if you are I think you are basing it on the 18 year old playing out of position for us several years ago. I can't believe I have seen anyone so completely out of his depth than Bertrand last night, I was surprised that Roy took such a risk leaving him on, I thought he was one tackle away from being sent off. I've been impressed by Bertrand when I've seen him (admittedly not that often) in the last couple of years. He was a liability last night though. No idea how he wasn't at least booked for the elbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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