Super Posted June 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 26 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Sorry but I don't agree Wales have performed 'much better than us against the same opposition'. They were poor against Slovakia and we're fortunate to win and they played an utterly pathetic Russia side already on their way home. Plus we beat them, and they looked pretty poor then too. Russia were terrible in every game though, worst team in the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 38 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Sorry but I don't agree Wales have performed 'much better than us against the same opposition'. They were poor against Slovakia and we're fortunate to win and they played an utterly pathetic Russia side already on their way home. Plus we beat them, and they looked pretty poor then too. Was going to post much the same. We have the youngest team\squad in the tournament, i think the way they have applied themselves so far has been very good. Always easy to focus on the negatives in an England performance. 3 teams parked the bus, we broke 2 of them down, 1 snatched a late equaliser and a mistake was made to concede in the other and make the game one we had to chase. If they keep the performance levels up i think they will certainly reach the QTR Finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 51 minutes ago, Super said: Russia were terrible in every game though, worst team in the tournament. Yes, but at least they showed some fighting spirit against us. Not as much as their fans did before the game in Vieux Port, mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 6 hours ago, Super said: The excuses are wearing a bit thin now. Not an excuse for our poor play, but it is the truth. If you watched any of Russia last night it was unbelievable at times. Similarly I don't remember Slovakia setting up against Wales like they did last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said: Sorry but I don't agree Wales have performed 'much better than us against the same opposition'. They were poor against Slovakia and we're fortunate to win and they played an utterly pathetic Russia side already on their way home. Plus we beat them, and they looked pretty poor then too. Well they took six points from those games and we took two so I know which set of fans will be happier with the performances. Maybe it's just a hangover from enduring the first half of last season but I'm fed up of being told how well we've played after crap results! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 34 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Well they took six points from those games and we took two so I know which set of fans will be happier with the performances. Maybe it's just a hangover from enduring the first half of last season but I'm fed up of being told how well we've played after crap results! You're confusing results with performance. How anyone could say England haven't played well so far is beyond me. So we play poorly get a win - what are we discussing then? The result or "we were lucky really, we didn't play well there" when looking at the performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 9 minutes ago, Gazred said: You're confusing results with performance. How anyone could say England haven't played well so far is beyond me. So we play poorly get a win - what are we discussing then? The result or "we were lucky really, we didn't play well there" when looking at the performance. The Wales game? In seriousness, there wasn't much difference in the performance in the Wales game to the one against Slovakia, yet some of those who shouted at me for daring to criticise are now criticising a very similar performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 11 minutes ago, Gazred said: You're confusing results with performance. How anyone could say England haven't played well so far is beyond me. So we play poorly get a win - what are we discussing then? The result or "we were lucky really, we didn't play well there" when looking at the performance. "The result is an imposter" - Xavi. That said, we've gotta start taking our chances when on top or we'll be heading home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 14 minutes ago, Gazred said: You're confusing results with performance. How anyone could say England haven't played well so far is beyond me. So we play poorly get a win - what are we discussing then? The result or "we were lucky really, we didn't play well there" when looking at the performance. We played well First half v Russia, Second half v Wales and first half last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, Gazred said: You're confusing results with performance. How anyone could say England haven't played well so far is beyond me. So we play poorly get a win - what are we discussing then? The result or "we were lucky really, we didn't play well there" when looking at the performance. Point taken on performance and outcome not always being reflective of each other, however to me, a 'good' performance is one that delivers the best outcome. Thus in my eyes Wales have performed better over the course of three games, which of course the table backs up. Put another way - what would you prefer next season - 'England' style performances and mid table (and spend the close season talking about how much possssion or how many shots we had) or 'Wales' style performances and a playoff place and potential promotion? Just because we kept the ball in midfield a lot doesn't make it a good performance. FYI here's the stats between England and Wales at the Euro's: SHOTS - SHOTS ON TARGET - GOALS England: 64 - 15 - 3 Wales: 38 - 22 - 6 So shot accuracy is 57% to 23% in Wales' favour. Chance conversion is 15% to 5% in Wales' favour. How any of this points to good England performances is beyond me. 3 goals from 64 attempts at goal is embarrassing by anyone's standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 8 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: "The result is an imposter" - Xavi. Yeah, I mean no one ever won anything by getting results! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Saying on talksport NI should qualify if they lose by less than 4 goals today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 10 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Yeah, I mean no one ever won anything by getting results! Yeah I mean what has Xavi ever won! Bloke doesn't know what he's talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kezman Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 25 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: "The result is an imposter" - Xavi. That said, we've gotta start taking our chances when on top or we'll be heading home! Sounds a lot like a certain someone who never looked at League tables! My general view is one of optimism. I think we've played as well as I've seen us at a tournament since Euro 96 / World Cup 98. Results haven't quite gone our way, but we are dominating games and keeping the ball well. I'm looking forward to player some of the bigger sides and adopting a more counter attack style, which should bring out the best in our attacking players. It will then be up to our defence to make sure they don't concede under pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 10 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Point taken on performance and outcome not always being reflective of each other, however to me, a 'good' performance is one that delivers the best outcome. Thus in my eyes Wales have performed better over the course of three games, which of course the table backs up. Put another way - what would you prefer next season - 'England' style performances and mid table (and spend the close season talking about how much possssion or how many shots we had) or 'Wales' style performances and a playoff place and potential promotion? Just because we kept the ball in midfield a lot doesn't make it a good performance. FYI here's the stats between England and Wales at the Euro's: SHOTS - SHOTS ON TARGET - GOALS England: 64 - 15 - 3 Wales: 38 - 22 - 6 So shot accuracy is 57% to 23% in Wales' favour. Chance conversion is 15% to 5% in Wales' favour. How any of this points to good England performances is beyond me. 3 goals from 64 attempts at goal is embarrassing by anyone's standards. Well it all depends what you are trying to analyse, the overall performance or just one component of it. I would agree that England's shots to goals ratio is not good enough. What's our passes/completion percentage, must be pretty high? There are many parts to a good performance, of course the end result adds a fair amount of sway to how people interpret that. Happy to agree to disagree on our performances, i think we both interpret that differently. I can only say it as i see it, England have bossed 3 average sides, won 1 and drawn 2. Undefeated in our group, yet Wales who have lost, top it. Opponents would of noticed England's dominance of possession and so far our inability to "pick the lock" on a ultra defensive setup. Perhaps we don't quite have the full set of components to compliment the style of play they are currently setup for. I still think if we play a more open side, if the performance is there, it will produce the "complete performance" where we get entertained, the stats look good and we get the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 19 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Yeah I mean what has Xavi ever won! Bloke doesn't know what he's talking about! Didn't say anything of the sort, but it's easy to say 'the result doesn't matter' or words to that effect when you play in a team that lose once in a blue moon! As of right now it's a knockout competition. The result is the only thing that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, Gazred said: Well it all depends what you are trying to analyse, the overall performance or just one component of it. I would agree that England's shots to goals ratio is not good enough. What's our passes/completion percentage, must be pretty high? There are many parts to a good performance, of course the end result adds a fair amount of sway to how people interpret that. Happy to agree to disagree on our performances, i think we both interpret that differently. I can only say it as i see it, England have bossed 3 average sides, won 1 and drawn 2. Undefeated in our group, yet Wales who have lost, top it. Opponents would of noticed England's dominance of possession and so far our inability to "pick the lock" on a ultra defensive setup. Perhaps we don't quite have the full set of components to compliment the style of play they are currently setup for. I still think if we play a more open side, if the performance is there, it will produce the "complete performance" where we get entertained, the stats look good and we get the result. Agreed that you can't tell everything from what I quoted but you've hit the nail on the head for me here: 'England have bossed 3 average sides' And I would add...'and have failed to beat two thirds of them' As of now dominating passes/possession counts for squat. If we can't be more clinical (15 shots on target out of 64 - woeful) then we have no chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Agreed that you can't tell everything from what I quoted but you've hit the nail on the head for me here: 'England have bossed 3 average sides' And I would add...'and have failed to beat two thirds of them' As of now dominating passes/possession counts for squat. If we can't be more clinical (15 shots on target out of 64 - woeful) then we have no chance! At International level its one of the key factors in competing and winning a game. It's one thing England have rarely been able to do and have been years behind other teams in achieving this. Ok, we are not the finished article but believe me when i say its probably the best we have been at it in my time (since Mexico 86). We do need to be more clinical, but that's it, i think we are playing the right way to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 I can see all the weaker teams in the next round sitting deep and trying to hold out for penalties and such is the tournament format, as soon as Wales scored that's what Slovakia were able to do last night. Tournament formats aside, not having the know how to unlock defences and convert chances has cost us (there's no other way I can make the bleedin' obvious sound more insightful!). We've lost 2/3 in terms of our objectives vs our opponents'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 12 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Agreed that you can't tell everything from what I quoted but you've hit the nail on the head for me here: 'England have bossed 3 average sides' And I would add...'and have failed to beat two thirds of them' As of now dominating passes/possession counts for squat. If we can't be more clinical (15 shots on target out of 64 - woeful) then we have no chance! ... and I would (whilst agreeing with @BRISTOL86 ) add we "bossed" two very average sides and one diabolical one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 4 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said: WWDWLDDWLDWWLLLDDWD No, not a town in Wales. Our tournament form since 2006. Is our record is not: WWDWDDDWLDWWDLLDDWD We drew with Portugal in 2006 and with Italy in 2012: penalties used to decide who advances once a match ends in a tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Right, come on NI. Let`s have you, us and Wales in the next round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 G'wan NI! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Love Northern Ireland, be great if they could make the last 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 The NI keeper isn`t doing himself any harm this tournament is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 From BBC "The world champions have had four shots and 77% possession in the opening quarter of an hour." From this and the ten mins I've snuck watching at work - it's the same game as Eng v Svk last night...although I'd fancy the German's to nick one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Here's the named side https://goo.gl/images/FkAeyw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 39 minutes ago, WTFiGO!?! said: I can see all the weaker teams in the next round sitting deep and trying to hold out for penalties and such is the tournament format, as soon as Wales scored that's what Slovakia were able to do last night. Tournament formats aside, not having the know how to unlock defences and convert chances has cost us (there's no other way I can make the bleedin' obvious sound more insightful!). We've lost 2/3 in terms of our objectives vs our opponents'. I'm not convinced Wales scoring would have made any difference to Slovakia's approach. Regardless of the result in the other game, they needed a point to guarantee at least third in the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Bollix, fup it all anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 So Germany do what England didn`t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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