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On 24/12/2023 at 10:45, spudski said:

It followed Saturnalia, a festival where people feasted and exchanged gifts. The church in Rome began celebrating Christmas on December 25 in the 4th century during the reign of Constantine, the first Christian emperor, possibly to weaken pagan traditions.

Early celebrations of Christmas are thought to have derived from Roman and other European festivals that marked the end of the harvest, and the winter solstice.

Scholers have worked out that Christ was born early to mid April. 

 

I have read two quite compelling books about whether Christ actually existed. There is no evidence of his existence outside of the bible and first parts of the New Testament to appear were written at least 70 years after the time.

There were at least 6 prophets that were making claims to be the Son of God around the time, the one with the biggest following was John the Baptist, who actually did exist. It's suggested in these books that the story of Jesus being annointed by him, and by dint passing on the mantle, was a political move to sideline his followers who were growing in numbers.

There is a Jesus mentioned in Roman writings, but the timelines don't fit and there is no mention of Nazareth, Bethlehem or Galilee in any of the writings.

The biggest mystery is why the Christian faith chose this story above all the others, also why they decided to use the four gospels they did out of the hundred or so written, to go into the bible especially when those books all contradict eachother. 

Sorry to hijack the thread, looking at this I think we could have a good discussion on a new one. :)

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3 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I have read two quite compelling books about whether Christ actually existed. There is no evidence of his existence outside of the bible and first parts of the New Testament to appear were written at least 70 years after the time.

There were at least 6 prophets that were making claims to be the Son of God around the time, the one with the biggest following was John the Baptist, who actually did exist. It's suggested in these books that the story of Jesus being annointed by him, and by dint passing on the mantle, was a political move to sideline his followers who were growing in numbers.

There is a Jesus mentioned in Roman writings, but the timelines don't fit and there is no mention of Nazareth, Bethlehem or Galilee in any of the writings.

The biggest mystery is why the Christian faith chose this story above all the others, also why they decided to use the four gospels they did out of the hundred or so written, to go into the bible especially when those books all contradict eachother. 

Sorry to hijack the thread, looking at this I think we could have a good discussion on a new one. :)

The Romans changed their whole religion and became Christians. They also changed the calender. 

AD and BC. 

It's obvious he existed. 

Whether in the form believed is another matter. 

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22 minutes ago, spudski said:

The Romans changed their whole religion and became Christians. They also changed the calender. 

AD and BC. 

It's obvious he existed. 

Whether in the form believed is another matter. 

I am of the opinion that the figure of Christ is a cypher for all the stories about other prophets. If you look at the stories chosen by the early church it's pretty clear they are the ones that most closely match the prophecies in the Old Testament that were supposed to identify the messiah.

Constantine made a unilateral decision to change the Roman religion, obviously influenced by the strong following that was emerging. This was of course around 280 years after the period that Jesus was supposed to have been active, I don't think it's obvious he existed at all, but faith has never required facts so it really doesn't matter now as almost all aspects of history have been influenced by the idea that he did.

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29 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I am of the opinion that the figure of Christ is a cypher for all the stories about other prophets. If you look at the stories chosen by the early church it's pretty clear they are the ones that most closely match the prophecies in the Old Testament that were supposed to identify the messiah.

Constantine made a unilateral decision to change the Roman religion, obviously influenced by the strong following that was emerging. This was of course around 280 years after the period that Jesus was supposed to have been active, I don't think it's obvious he existed at all, but faith has never required facts so it really doesn't matter now as almost all aspects of history have been influenced by the idea that he did.

I tend to look at historical writings rather than what the church says. 

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1 hour ago, BanburyRed said:

People in shops wiring wireless headphones.

In a similar theme, people wearing headphones and talking out loud on their phones in public. They don’t realise they are shouting their mundane conversations to the whole world.

It seems compulsory that people do this in London railway stations.  

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3 hours ago, BanburyRed said:

People in shops wiring wireless headphones.

How does this affect anyone else negatively? :dunno:

2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

In a similar theme, people wearing headphones and talking out loud on their phones in public. They don’t realise they are shouting their mundane conversations to the whole world.

It seems compulsory that people do this in London railway stations.  

I'm intrigued how one is supposed to have a conversation on their phone in any other way than "out loud"...

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9 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

 

I'm intrigued how one is supposed to have a conversation on their phone in any other way than "out loud"...

 I tend to hold the phone to my ear and thereby the mouthpiece is actually near my mouth, obliviating the need to do a "Dom Joly".

I'm talking about those people who either talk into a phone held in front of them on speaker or have a headset and look like they are babbling to themselves. 

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41 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

How does this affect anyone else negatively? :dunno:

I'm intrigued how one is supposed to have a conversation on their phone in any other way than "out loud"...

While they're wandering about the shop - probably not much, apart from it being a bit odd that they seem to want the world to know what they're having for dinner.

But where I'm 100% with @BanburyRed on this is what happens when they get to the checkout. And simply carry on the conversation, completely ignoring the cashier who's serving them. That, to me, is the height of rudeness, and is definitely in my room 101 list!

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7 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 I tend to hold the phone to my ear and thereby the mouthpiece is actually near my mouth, obliviating the need to do a "Dom Joly".

I'm talking about those people who either talk into a phone held in front of them on speaker or have a headset and look like they are babbling to themselves. 

Apparently every call has to be a video call and if your unfortunate enough to look at them  then it's "What you looking at, **** off!"

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Always remember being in a pub several years ago (The Yeoman), young chap had a loud ring tone kept going off every five minutes, one of the regulars got up after it went off for about the tenth time, grabbed the phone and dropped it in chaps pint, wonderful moment.

They should make the top deck if a bus a quiet zone to stop this idiocy 

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When the press say someone is going to Jail. It's Prison in this country 

 When people say "Proof of the Pudding" drives me mad because it is "The proof of the Pudding is in the eating"

Macaroni cheese has become Mac and Cheese.

People who call the month February Febree drives me insane.

Swansea and Cardiff shirts in JD sports at Bristol Airport.

And Wayne Mardle!

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4 minutes ago, Barry Sheene said:

Sorry I forgot one that drives me mad.

People who wear Shorts in the freezing cold weather trying to prove they are hard!

Agreed, and...

Blokes' legs summer or winter. Put it a f ing way!

Vile, don't want it, pal  cover up.

Edited by AppyDAZE
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17 hours ago, Barry Sheene said:

When the press say someone is going to Jail. It's Prison in this country 

 When people say "Proof of the Pudding" drives me mad because it is "The proof of the Pudding is in the eating"

Macaroni cheese has become Mac and Cheese.

People who call the month February Febree drives me insane.

Swansea and Cardiff shirts in JD sports at Bristol Airport.

And Wayne Mardle!

Or gaol. 😀

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Loud car exhausts that sound like they've got a hole in them. and they zoom down your road at ungodly hours waking the street up in the process.  Used to be the remit of young drivers / boy racers, yet the bloke round here who's got one of said exhausts on his signal yellow Focus must be in his mid-40s

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3 hours ago, Ronnie Sinclair said:

Loud car exhausts that sound like they've got a hole in them. and they zoom down your road at ungodly hours waking the street up in the process.  Used to be the remit of young drivers / boy racers, yet the bloke round here who's got one of said exhausts on his signal yellow Focus must be in his mid-40s

Guy across the road has use of a Tesla which is either silent going forwards or sounds like an old milk float when reversing!

His other car a TVR appears occaisionaly and must need tuning as he sit on the drive revving noisily for 5 minutes before leaving and after returning home! Must be a cry for attention?

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