Guest Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 I hope in the near future Burt gives the man who gave him his opportunity at AG a phone call and asks if we can take a promising Liverpool youngster or two on loan this season... After Danny Wilson it may not be that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Oh yes we were playing some sublime hoofball by the end of his tenure.... You were watching City from Oz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 After Danny Wilson it may not be that simple. A lot's changed since then, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 He never gets enough time to implement his style and philosophy in a club. That's not exactly his fault. He had five years at Doncaster and left them when they were facing relegation after nine straight losses. Keep believing the mythology though. Do you still believe in Father Christmas too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 He had five years at Doncaster and left them when they were facing relegation after nine straight losses. Keep believing the mythology though. Do you still believe in Father Christmas too? Yep another over egged pudding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 He had five years at Doncaster and left them when they were facing relegation after nine straight losses. Keep believing the mythology though. Do you still believe in Father Christmas too? SOD certainly had enough time at Donny to implement his "philosophy" and it has coincided with a purple patch in their history, both whilst he was away and since he has left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 You were watching City from Oz? No although that may have been a better option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 SOD certainly had enough time at Donny to implement his "philosophy" and it has coincided with a purple patch in their history, both whilst he was away and since he has left. You mean since he's left like the season they went down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 He had five years at Doncaster and left them when they were facing relegation after nine straight losses. Keep believing the mythology though. Do you still believe in Father Christmas too? To be fair I do sympathise with his plight at Donny. Just as I did GJ at Yeovil. They both took them to the 'glass ceiling' and it was only going to end one way; with a slide once your words start falling on deaf ears... a syndrome which very few managers can protect against unless the board can back them to reinvent the squad as Ferguson did time after time after time. You need more than a touch of luck too it seems. There were alarm bells from Donny though as he couldn't manoeuvre the ship once the rot had set. Something largely ignored by many of his supporters. Actually when you parallel that job with the one here and consider the rest of his career I would suggest he may be a good manager for a club ready to push on and on solid foundations, but in terms of saving a club or stopping the rot or turning things around - apologies to his fans - but I don't see it, I can't see it and I've read/heard nothing which is convincing to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 I remember feeling really pleased when SOD joined us - he came with a good reputation and I recall Florist fans giving him a warm reception when we played them at AG not long after his arrival. At first he seemed to make us more organised but we ended being relegated without a whimper. His signings during that summer were good but the lack of wins in that first third of the season or so really took their toll on the players' confidence and SOD seemed unable to turn that around. Yes there were signs that things had improved slightly but as others have said the football was dire and we looked like prime candidates for relegation. When SOD was sacked it seemed strange at the time because the board had stuck with him up until then and there didn't appear to be any obvious replacements (not many of us were screaming out for Cotts). However, hindsight being a wonderful thing shows that the board got it absolutely right: Cotts galvanised the club, kept us up more easily than had seemed possible and then went on to lead us to the best season I have seen in 34 years as a City fan. I have no knowledge of what SOD did or didn't do behind the scenes and don't doubt his qualities as a coach but he was the wrong manager at the wrong time and certainly didn't endear himself to fans in his interviews (although I did actually enjoy his programme notes). At least he gave us the memory of that "stupid question" interview which inspired that song from the East End. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 You mean since he's left like the season they went down? Yes, and then the season after when they went straight back up as Champions. Smart arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Yes, and then the season after when they went straight back up as Champions. Smart arse. 18months and two managers later.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 18months and two managers later.... Is there supposed to be a point you are making in there somewhere...?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Yes, and then the season after when they went straight back up as Champions. Smart arse. Don't take it personally petal. You may also remember they completely abandoned their previous infrastructure the moment he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Is there supposed to be a point you are making in there somewhere...?? If you cannot work it out - that just perhaps that season's performance was not attributable to SOD - then you are not worth attempting to have a reasonable discussion with. Especially as you'll no doubt recall the Doncaster squad and set up and philosophy changed vastly after their experiment with Prem has-beens. SODs work, legacy, was ripped apart and crapped on in the interim. Brian Flynn went in and did wonders, just how I believe SC has done here. I credit them with their respective achievements, not SOD as predecessor. Especially in relation to Doncaster. There is no more logic to what you suggest - that their purple patch after SOD was attributable to him - than there is saying Brian Tinnion set things up for Gary Johnson. That's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Received a nice email back from him, after wishing him good luck with the new appointment etc. Always a Gentleman.... As for implementing a style and philosophy at the Club...his blueprint along with the Clubs is still being used....so all good :-) I think that because you liked SoD on personal level this has very much clouded you judgment on SoD time in charge at BCFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 SOD certainly had enough time at Donny to implement his "philosophy" and it has coincided with a purple patch in their history, both whilst he was away and since he has left. Wow! What a purple patch. Promotion with someone else's team then bumping along just above the relegation zone of the Championship thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 The big difference between SoD and Cotterill managerial style is that SoD likes to coach his players to play his system and obviously that takes time. Cotterill however has a preferred way of playing and brings in the players that will fit his style and system. Obviously SCs way is far quicker assuming he and KB can find and then sign the right kind of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 The big difference between SoD and Cotterill managerial style is that SoD likes to coach his players to play his system and obviously that takes time. Cotterill however has a preferred way of playing and brings in the players that will fit his style and system. Obviously SCs way is far quicker assuming he and KB can find and then sign the right kind of player. Let's try to remember players whose performances were improved by SOD's expert "coaching" at City. No, I can't think of one either. If you can't make any improvements in the best part of a year, I'd say this expert coach thing is a myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 The big difference between SoD and Cotterill managerial style is that SoD likes to coach his players to play his system and obviously that takes time. Cotterill however has a preferred way of playing and brings in the players that will fit his style and system. Obviously SCs way is far quicker assuming he and KB can find and then sign the right kind of player. Robbo can you explain how baldock, fielding, flint, Williams, Bryan, pack all improved after sod left and cotts started to coach them?, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TETBURY MASSIVE Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Don't take it personally petal. You may also remember they completely abandoned their previous infrastructure the moment he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 The big difference between SoD and Cotterill managerial style is that SoD likes to coach his players to play his system and obviously that takes time. Cotterill however has a preferred way of playing and brings in the players that will fit his style and system. Obviously SCs way is far quicker assuming he and KB can find and then sign the right kind of player. Every single person in the footballing world knows that managers/head coaches aren't given years to improve results. If you haven't turned things around within a year, you're out on your arse. The fact that SOD thought he could go on coaching players at the speed of a snail and take an infinite amount of time suggests that perhaps he isn't as intelligent as some are making out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 The big difference between SoD and Cotterill managerial style is that SoD likes to coach his players to play his system and obviously that takes time. Cotterill however has a preferred way of playing and brings in the players that will fit his style and system. Obviously SCs way is far quicker assuming he and KB can find and then sign the right kind of player. I was interested in that statement so had a peek at his transfer dealings and I'm not sure I can agree with that. The season that saw Doncaster promoted, his first full, he made a number of signings for instant impact: James Hayter, Matthew Mills, Richie Wellens, Martin Woods, Stuart Elliot.. and players like Brian Stock 6 months earlier. There was also Neil Sullivan. I would say that's exactly like SC did here. The season following in the Championship the same: James Chambers, Jordon Spicer, Jos Van Nieuwstadt..... In the space of 18-24 months that's a whole new team SOD brought in. I'm not saying he doesn't coach existing players into new roles, and at Donny some players did improve very well indeed, but I don't see what you suggest. I think there are a lot of similarities to SC - a few signings when he first came in to be his guard, a summer of quality signings to the core eleven and working with those already there, and all alongside instilling a new system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I still like SOD, I think he's an intelligent chap with good ideas about how football should be approached and played. I also think he might have been the right man at the wrong time for City and that had he been appointed at an "easier" time (some time around 2009 for instance) he might have been able to develop City in the way he wanted to. However, the other day I saw a graphic showing his win ratio during his managerial career. City was clearly his worst spell at just 25% but in all his club jobs he has never topped the 38% he managed during a short spell at Forest. Some of this can be explained by the fact that he took two small clubs to a higher division then kept them up there, probably at the limits of their capability at the time, but it's still low for a supposedly good manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I think that because you liked SoD on personal level this has very much clouded you judgment on SoD time in charge at BCFC. Not at all fella... It has nothing to do with 'personality' and whether you like a person. It has more to do with having a little bit of knowledge regarding circumstances. That's why you'll find me stick up for Benny, Coppell and Millen more than others as well. In the same way, many will big up Ward....but I wouldn't give him the time of day. What I can't get my head around is how some fans are just so black and white and don't take circumstances into consideration. How they think SoD was awful and SC is some miracle worker. Both their records show indifference at Clubs. You can only work with the players you've got, how long players contracts are, people who want to leave, transfer windows, loan system, money available, projected budget and Clubs plan of action. SoD was at the early transition of our Clubs new way of thinking. It took some tinkering to get their. Plus getting rid of a lot of dross and feeing up wages. SoD had very little money and some hangers on. He built a team around Jet....arguably our most naturally talented player....who scored freely under SoD. SC came in....used the loan window very well....and was able to get rid of the dross and free up wages and spend pre season. Note....Jet hardly scored a goal under SC when he came in....then was pretty much out of favour the following season. SC was able to build a more balanced squad....something SoD was aiming to do also. SoD and SC have both been good for this Club....but the majority will only see the 'black and white' of SC's results rather than the bigger picture. Our turn around hasn't come about by SC being some form of genius. It's come about by the Club putting in a plan....getting SoD to start the ball rolling and implement it. Putting coaching and backroom staff in place, to do jobs that the manager was doing before. Giving us a Director of football, who deals with stuff previous managers had to do, taking them away from the first team. All these changes have made us stronger....and SoD, Burt, Pemberton and SC have all worked within that new ethos. That's why it's worked....it has nothing to do with SoD being bad and SC being the Messiah. you've only got to see their records at other clubs to understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Not at all fella... It has nothing to do with 'personality' and whether you like a person. It has more to do with having a little bit of knowledge regarding circumstances. That's why you'll find me stick up for Benny, Coppell and Millen more than others as well. In the same way, many will big up Ward....but I wouldn't give him the time of day. What I can't get my head around is how some fans are just so black and white and don't take circumstances into consideration. How they think SoD was awful and SC is some miracle worker. Both their records show indifference at Clubs. You can only work with the players you've got, how long players contracts are, people who want to leave, transfer windows, loan system, money available, projected budget and Clubs plan of action. SoD was at the early transition of our Clubs new way of thinking. It took some tinkering to get their. Plus getting rid of a lot of dross and feeing up wages. SoD had very little money and some hangers on. He built a team around Jet....arguably our most naturally talented player....who scored freely under SoD. SC came in....used the loan window very well....and was able to get rid of the dross and free up wages and spend pre season. Note....Jet hardly scored a goal under SC when he came in....then was pretty much out of favour the following season. SC was able to build a more balanced squad....something SoD was aiming to do also. SoD and SC have both been good for this Club....but the majority will only see the 'black and white' of SC's results rather than the bigger picture. Our turn around hasn't come about by SC being some form of genius. It's come about by the Club putting in a plan....getting SoD to start the ball rolling and implement it. Putting coaching and backroom staff in place, to do jobs that the manager was doing before. Giving us a Director of football, who deals with stuff previous managers had to do, taking them away from the first team. All these changes have made us stronger....and SoD, Burt, Pemberton and SC have all worked within that new ethos. That's why it's worked....it has nothing to do with SoD being bad and SC being the Messiah. you've only got to see their records at other clubs to understand that. Well thought out, spudders - you'll be slaughtered here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Not at all fella... It has nothing to do with 'personality' and whether you like a person. It has more to do with having a little bit of knowledge regarding circumstances. That's why you'll find me stick up for Benny, Coppell and Millen more than others as well. In the same way, many will big up Ward....but I wouldn't give him the time of day. What I can't get my head around is how some fans are just so black and white and don't take circumstances into consideration. How they think SoD was awful and SC is some miracle worker. Both their records show indifference at Clubs. You can only work with the players you've got, how long players contracts are, people who want to leave, transfer windows, loan system, money available, projected budget and Clubs plan of action. SoD was at the early transition of our Clubs new way of thinking. It took some tinkering to get their. Plus getting rid of a lot of dross and feeing up wages. SoD had very little money and some hangers on. He built a team around Jet....arguably our most naturally talented player....who scored freely under SoD. SC came in....used the loan window very well....and was able to get rid of the dross and free up wages and spend pre season. Note....Jet hardly scored a goal under SC when he came in....then was pretty much out of favour the following season. SC was able to build a more balanced squad....something SoD was aiming to do also. SoD and SC have both been good for this Club....but the majority will only see the 'black and white' of SC's results rather than the bigger picture. Our turn around hasn't come about by SC being some form of genius. It's come about by the Club putting in a plan....getting SoD to start the ball rolling and implement it. Putting coaching and backroom staff in place, to do jobs that the manager was doing before. Giving us a Director of football, who deals with stuff previous managers had to do, taking them away from the first team. All these changes have made us stronger....and SoD, Burt, Pemberton and SC have all worked within that new ethos. That's why it's worked....it has nothing to do with SoD being bad and SC being the Messiah. you've only got to see their records at other clubs to understand that. Good post But the turn about came because sc balanced the squad and strengthened where we were week (defence, midfield) he added a target man and changed the formation, That's what sod failed to do, he had the tools but couldn't get them working, maybe a few bad eggs were here but they were also here when sc came in, Square pegs square holes and the fact sc played to the players strengths like keeping it on the deck playing though balls to baldock instead of knocking it long And not relaying on jet to perform magic to get him out of the shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Not at all fella... It has nothing to do with 'personality' and whether you like a person. It has more to do with having a little bit of knowledge regarding circumstances. That's why you'll find me stick up for Benny, Coppell and Millen more than others as well. In the same way, many will big up Ward....but I wouldn't give him the time of day. What I can't get my head around is how some fans are just so black and white and don't take circumstances into consideration. How they think SoD was awful and SC is some miracle worker. Both their records show indifference at Clubs. You can only work with the players you've got, how long players contracts are, people who want to leave, transfer windows, loan system, money available, projected budget and Clubs plan of action. SoD was at the early transition of our Clubs new way of thinking. It took some tinkering to get their. Plus getting rid of a lot of dross and feeing up wages. SoD had very little money and some hangers on. He built a team around Jet....arguably our most naturally talented player....who scored freely under SoD. SC came in....used the loan window very well....and was able to get rid of the dross and free up wages and spend pre season. Note....Jet hardly scored a goal under SC when he came in....then was pretty much out of favour the following season. SC was able to build a more balanced squad....something SoD was aiming to do also. SoD and SC have both been good for this Club....but the majority will only see the 'black and white' of SC's results rather than the bigger picture. Our turn around hasn't come about by SC being some form of genius. It's come about by the Club putting in a plan....getting SoD to start the ball rolling and implement it. Putting coaching and backroom staff in place, to do jobs that the manager was doing before. Giving us a Director of football, who deals with stuff previous managers had to do, taking them away from the first team. All these changes have made us stronger....and SoD, Burt, Pemberton and SC have all worked within that new ethos. That's why it's worked....it has nothing to do with SoD being bad and SC being the Messiah. you've only got to see their records at other clubs to understand that. Not at all fella... It has nothing to do with 'personality' and whether you like a person. It has more to do with having a little bit of knowledge regarding circumstances. That's why you'll find me stick up for Benny, Coppell and Millen more than others as well. In the same way, many will big up Ward....but I wouldn't give him the time of day. What I can't get my head around is how some fans are just so black and white and don't take circumstances into consideration. How they think SoD was awful and SC is some miracle worker. Both their records show indifference at Clubs. You can only work with the players you've got, how long players contracts are, people who want to leave, transfer windows, loan system, money available, projected budget and Clubs plan of action. SoD was at the early transition of our Clubs new way of thinking. It took some tinkering to get their. Plus getting rid of a lot of dross and feeing up wages. SoD had very little money and some hangers on. He built a team around Jet....arguably our most naturally talented player....who scored freely under SoD. SC came in....used the loan window very well....and was able to get rid of the dross and free up wages and spend pre season. Note....Jet hardly scored a goal under SC when he came in....then was pretty much out of favour the following season. SC was able to build a more balanced squad....something SoD was aiming to do also. SoD and SC have both been good for this Club....but the majority will only see the 'black and white' of SC's results rather than the bigger picture. Our turn around hasn't come about by SC being some form of genius. It's come about by the Club putting in a plan....getting SoD to start the ball rolling and implement it. Putting coaching and backroom staff in place, to do jobs that the manager was doing before. Giving us a Director of football, who deals with stuff previous managers had to do, taking them away from the first team. All these changes have made us stronger....and SoD, Burt, Pemberton and SC have all worked within that new ethos. That's why it's worked....it has nothing to do with SoD being bad and SC being the Messiah. you've only got to see their records at other clubs to understand that. It's the relativity though Spud. I know it is not your intention but from the above some could read that and think 'but there's no mention of the adverse circumstances SC had to deal with when he arrived - including our worst sustained run of form in history'. I think that's why some of your posts seem to attract a great deal of response. Personally my opinion is that I don't think it took SOD to tell a few people they were stupid, I think the penny had already dropped prior to SOD and that's why SOD was brought in - they already came round to my way of thinking wasn't it? The point I'm making is the strategy changed before he came in and whilst he contributed, I don't think the contribution was anywhere near enough to justify his position or justify his performance and I think we would've gotten there in spite of SOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Wow! What a purple patch. Promotion with someone else's team then bumping along just above the relegation zone of the Championship thereafter. For Doncaster Rovers, yes - it is an achievement for them to be in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 If you cannot work it out - that just perhaps that season's performance was not attributable to SOD - then you are not worth attempting to have a reasonable discussion with. Especially as you'll no doubt recall the Doncaster squad and set up and philosophy changed vastly after their experiment with Prem has-beens. SODs work, legacy, was ripped apart and crapped on in the interim. Brian Flynn went in and did wonders, just how I believe SC has done here. I credit them with their respective achievements, not SOD as predecessor. Especially in relation to Doncaster. There is no more logic to what you suggest - that their purple patch after SOD was attributable to him - than there is saying Brian Tinnion set things up for Gary Johnson. That's the point. Actually I do think Tinnion went some way to setting things up for GJ. He started the process of weeding out the players who went on weekend benders, gambled, didn't really give a shite etc - a culture that grew under Danny Wilson. GJ of course pretty much ended it in one fell swoop with the infamous hand grenade incident. The experiment after SOD left was disasterous you're right. Maybe they'd have been best of sticking to The Plan, like thankfully we are so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.