Lansdown - decision time

[Shuffle]

So in the last 6 months we have lost the following from our wage bill;

Klose, Martin, Semenyo, Bentley, HNM, Baker, Wilson, Scott, JD, Moore, Kalas & reduced Wells salary by potentially half.

We’ve added Cornick, Memehti, Roberts,McCrorie, Knight & Dickie & increased cost base with new deals for Atkinson/Tanner.

Not only have we significantly reduced wage bill but also reduced squad depth to currently 19 available to choose from (inc 2 academy defenders & Yeboah).  
 

Also generated £35m in transfers out & lost our 2 best players in process & spent £5.5m on new recruits.

Im sure @Mr Popodopolous & @Davefevs can be more concise with projected savings & if I’ve missed anything. Whilst some of the signings have yet to prove their value (jury out still) surely if we are going to progress now is the time to release some funds and review any internal targets associated with wage bill limits.

I know this is easy for me to say as it’s not my money but I’m cannot see how we can progress this season without further funds & whilst I’m not always happy with Nige, he continues to work with handcuffs on.  Nobody expects us to go to the Ashton days of huge signings/wages but not sure how we progress. Time will tell which way he went. 

 

[glynriley]

5 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

So in the last 6 months we have lost the following from our wage bill;

Klose, Martin, Semenyo, Bentley, HNM, Baker, Wilson, Scott, JD, Moore, Kalas & reduced Wells salary by potentially half.

We’ve added Cornick, Memehti, Roberts,McCrorie, Knight & Dickie & increased cost base with new deals for Atkinson/Tanner.

Not only have we significantly reduced wage bill but also reduced squad depth to currently 19 available to choose from (inc 2 academy defenders & Yeboah).  
 

Also generated £35m in transfers out & lost our 2 best players in process & spent £5.5m on new recruits.

Im sure @Mr Popodopolous & @Davefevs can be more concise with projected savings & if I’ve missed anything. Whilst some of the signings have yet to prove their value (jury out still) surely if we are going to progress now is the time to release some funds and review any internal targets associated with wage bill limits.

I know this is easy for me to say as it’s not my money but I’m cannot see how we can progress this season without further funds & whilst I’m not always happy with Nige, he continues to work with handcuffs on.  Nobody expects us to go to the Ashton days of huge signings/wages but not sure how we progress. Time will tell which way he went. 

 

Said after the game on Saturday, after a comment about the pressure growing on NP, I think if we don't bring at least 2 in before the end of the window, the pressure starts to build on SL.

[petehinton]

I think this is the point where it really highlights just how ****** we were when Nige came in. All those players gone or revised, and we’re still probably not in the greatest of places. 

[fisherrich]

Also if Lansdown is planning to sell up, then the purse strings will be tight for Nige. I get the impression Lansdown is losing interest in the football side of Bristol City FC. Only time will tell. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

4 minutes ago, glynriley said:

Said after the game on Saturday, after a comment about the pressure growing on NP, I think if we don't bring at least 2 in before the end of the window, the pressure starts to build on SL.

Nige's kept his part of the bargain with 2+ years of jettisoning the high earners along with very limited spending and now that's been achieved the pressure should all be on the club/SL to keep their side of it. Which presumably was to give reasonable backing (to Nige, not the next bloke) when finances allowed.

Fans understand what NP has done and how his hands are largely tied and, if nothing changes, any frustrated booing will increasingly be directed at SL imo.

[GrahamC]

Think we are at a very interesting point.

Saturday’s squad was missing Conway, Weimann, Atkinson & McCrorie, which is probably only about one above average in terms of absences yet of our 9 subs 5 have never started a Championship game & 3 haven’t featured in one at all. Another of the subs was Andy King, who we know is near to the end of his playing days & only there to provide experience & avoid it resembling an U21 team bench.

SL said that if Pearson sold players he could expect funds, but the disparity between sales (& in addition to this moving the likes of Wilson & Low off the wage bill) & our incomings is stark.

Whatever the Bolton lad who opted to stay ever does in the game the fact he was our initial target tells a lot about what type of player Pearson is now being expected to work with.

I am very grateful for his investment in the infrastructure & cash flow but a sale to another owner cannot come quickly enough.

[Sir Geoff]

30 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

So in the last 6 months we have lost the following from our wage bill;

Klose, Martin, Semenyo, Bentley, HNM, Baker, Wilson, Scott, JD, Moore, Kalas & reduced Wells salary by potentially half.

We’ve added Cornick, Memehti, Roberts,McCrorie, Knight & Dickie & increased cost base with new deals for Atkinson/Tanner.

Not only have we significantly reduced wage bill but also reduced squad depth to currently 19 available to choose from (inc 2 academy defenders & Yeboah).  
 

Also generated £35m in transfers out & lost our 2 best players in process & spent £5.5m on new recruits.

Im sure @Mr Popodopolous & @Davefevs can be more concise with projected savings & if I’ve missed anything. Whilst some of the signings have yet to prove their value (jury out still) surely if we are going to progress now is the time to release some funds and review any internal targets associated with wage bill limits.

I know this is easy for me to say as it’s not my money but I’m cannot see how we can progress this season without further funds & whilst I’m not always happy with Nige, he continues to work with handcuffs on.  Nobody expects us to go to the Ashton days of huge signings/wages but not sure how we progress. Time will tell which way he went. 

 

And Weimann. Trouble is by reducing the wage bill we are now roughly where we should have been 3 years ago before Ashton splashed the cash and left us up the creek without a paddle.

[spudski]

Ive got a gut feeling from comments made recently, that much of the money made won't be released. 

NP in his last year of contract. Talking of life away from football. 

SL talking of building a ' nest egg'. 

I feels like both are keeping their cards close to their chest, waiting for different outcomes. 

NP says he thinks with these present players at hand, that we will do better than last season. 

SL maybe watching how well we do up to Xmas. And if doing well may release more funds in January. 

Or if underachieving...bring in a new manager and give him the funds to use. 

[Bedred31]

SL is 71 next week. That’s over a decade older than NP, who himself was talking last week about age, time and bucket lists.This will just be a number for many on here, but when your a bit older you have a profound sense of time and time running out. I’m sure SL desperately wants to see City in the top flight again, because like me he can remember 76-80 clearly. But if I were him, with probably a bit more active, healthy time left and 1.8 billion in the bank, I’d be looking to offload the hassle of City. Like a shot, frankly, given that I could still go to any game, anywhere whenever I want. I suspect that’s where SL has understandably got too.I think it’s to his credit that he appears to be approaching the sale ( because he’s publicly been open to offers for several years) carefully and without an obvious desire to sell to the first outfit, however questionable, that promises to protect his investment.

[Nogbad the Bad]

3 minutes ago, Bedred31 said:

SL is 71 next week. That’s over a decade older than NP, who himself was talking last week about age, time and bucket lists.This will just be a number for many on here, but when your a bit older you have a profound sense of time and time running out. I’m sure SL desperately wants to see City in the top flight again, because like me he can remember 76-80 clearly. 

Did SL watch games or even have any interest in BCFC in that period?

 

[Merrick's Marvels]

59 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

Not only have we significantly reduced wage bill but also reduced squad depth to currently 19 available to choose from (inc 2 academy defenders & Yeboah).  

We've reduced our quality as well. 

Semenyo, Scott, Kalas, Baker would walk into any other team in our division.

The various reasons for them leaving are not the point. The point is that none of them have been replaced with equivalent quality. 

That's fine if you give their replacements time to develop but how realistic is it to lose players of that quality, mostly replace them with lower league greenhorns, and still talk about the play-offs? 

Put another way, how many teams have ever been promoted with a side full of inexperienced novices and cheap pick ups from the lower leagues?

Personally, I'm fine with finishing 10th (optimistic, judging on performances so far). I get why the official line is "we can make the play-offs" as you've got to be seen to be ambitious and pushing standards upwards.

But a team that has so many players still "learning the game" doesn't strike me as promotion material. I get why we have so many of these types - just think we, the fanbase, should be more realistic about what they can achieve in the short term.  

Edited August 21, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[Merrick's Marvels]

14 minutes ago, Bedred31 said:

 I’m sure SL desperately wants to see City in the top flight again, because like me he can remember 76-80 clearly. 

He had no interest in BCFC at all !!!!!!!!

His son badgered him into taking him in the late 1980s.

The only memories Lansdown might have of the 1970s are of going to Eastvile !!

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[Wrongagain]

Manager perhaps not being backed? Been there before, just before SL brought in  a manager and a CEO whose rivalry did a hatchet job on our finances - SL’s decision and strange control of finances, the supporters are of no importance!

[2015]

As I've said on another thread - you cannot sell two proven match winners in Scott and Semenyo for 35 million and not adequately replace them.

We have made signings to increase the quantity of the squad but not replaced with enough quality to replace those two players. 

You don't progress in the Championship for cheap and to have a chance of making the playoffs you absolutely need a goalscorer, which we don't currently have.

[beaverface]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Ive got a gut feeling from comments made recently, that much of the money made won't be released. 

NP in his last year of contract. Talking of life away from football. 

SL talking of building a ' nest egg'. 

I feels like both are keeping their cards close to their chest, waiting for different outcomes. 

NP says he thinks with these present players at hand, that we will do better than last season. 

SL maybe watching how well we do up to Xmas. And if doing well may release more funds in January. 

Or if underachieving...bring in a new manager and give him the funds to use. 

Been thinking something similar myself.

Normally when you have a player we rate in the last year of their contract, we get that contract renewal offer onto the table ASAP. NP is in his last year, and we've heard nothing.

The talk of nest eggs, does make you wonder whether SL is waiting for this season to be over, so he can then bring in another manager and back them to the hilt with all the savings NP has had to make, and so we rinse and repeat the last n years!

Difficult to understand what's going on, especially with both NP and SL both being very guarded with what they say about each other.

Not particularly over enamoured by Phil Alexander either, surely there should be statements from him also to set expectations. We seemed to have gone from the extreme (Ashton) who couldn't wait to blag, to the perfect (Gould), who was just about right with the amount of news he fed out, to the other extreme (Alexander) who we don't hear a jot from.

[Bris Red]

3 minutes ago, beaverface said:

 

The talk of nest eggs, does make you wonder whether SL is waiting for this season to be over, so he can then bring in another manager and back them to the hilt with all the savings NP has had to make, and so we rinse and repeat the last n years!

This is my huge worry. With Lansdowns track record of hiring managers i have little to no faith that whoever Nige’s successor will be is going to be the answer.

I think the next couple of weeks will pretty much tell us what the owner thinks of Pearson. He has to be backed 100% IMO.

[Bristol Oil Services]

8 minutes ago, beaverface said:

Been thinking something similar myself.

Normally when you have a player we rate in the last year of their contract, we get that contract renewal offer onto the table ASAP. NP is in his last year, and we've heard nothing.

The talk of nest eggs, does make you wonder whether SL is waiting for this season to be over, so he can then bring in another manager and back them to the hilt with all the savings NP has had to make, and so we rinse and repeat the last n years!

Difficult to understand what's going on, especially with both NP and SL both being very guarded with what they say about each other.

Not particularly over enamoured by Phil Alexander either, surely there should be statements from him also to set expectations. We seemed to have gone from the extreme (Ashton) who couldn't wait to blag, to the perfect (Gould), who was just about right with the amount of news he fed out, to the other extreme (Alexander) who we don't hear a jot from.

You seem to be saying or thinking that Phil Alexander is here for us, the supporters? Is he not here in fact to do a job for Steve?

[beaverface]

1 minute ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

You seem to be saying or thinking that Phil Alexander is here for us, the supporters? Is he not here in fact to do a job for Steve?

I seem to think that SL is the mouthpiece for the club, rather than the mouthpiece being the person employed to be.

[Gert Mare]

1 hour ago, Bedred31 said:

SL is 71 next week. That’s over a decade older than NP, who himself was talking last week about age, time and bucket lists.This will just be a number for many on here, but when your a bit older you have a profound sense of time and time running out. I’m sure SL desperately wants to see City in the top flight again, because like me he can remember 76-80 clearly. But if I were him, with probably a bit more active, healthy time left and 1.8 billion in the bank, I’d be looking to offload the hassle of City. Like a shot, frankly, given that I could still go to any game, anywhere whenever I want. I suspect that’s where SL has understandably got too.I think it’s to his credit that he appears to be approaching the sale ( because he’s publicly been open to offers for several years) carefully and without an obvious desire to sell to the first outfit, however questionable, that promises to protect his investment.

The problem is that he wants to sell ‘Bristol Sport’ which nobody is interested in.

They would be interested in Bristol City, but not the other sports I’d imagine?

[A Horse With No Name]

Strange how views can change in just a few weeks. Back at the beginning of August we were saying that the players we had bought were quality acquisitions,  and how we had cover for every position. Play offs were seemingly a possiblity especially  with the soundbites coming from the club.

Here we are, three short games later panicking about shoehorning somebody into the left centre back slot, once again playing players out of position, and the spine of the side looking weaker than it has for years. 

[Supersonic Robin]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Or if underachieving...bring in a new manager and give him the funds to use. 

Another concern is how the Lansdowns define 'underachievement'.

I recall a couple of years ago we had a minor (but public) disagreement between Pearson and JL about how well the club should expect to be doing that season.

Now, as has been pointed out by others, SL appears to believe that Luton provide sufficient evidence that a manager can achieve promotion with little financial backing. 

The Lansdowns still seem completely unwilling or completely unable to acknowledge the mess that Pearson inherited, and the struggles he's faced as a result.

[Riaz]

2 hours ago, petehinton said:

I think this is the point where it really highlights just how ****** we were when Nige came in. All those players gone or revised, and we’re still probably not in the greatest of places. 

I think we need to accept we are one of the smaller clubs in the division and therefore, we cant sustain a wage bill to compete with most teams.

Most teams have been in the prem and gained all the resourses that comes with that (inclduing parachute) or they get much bigger crowds.

We got the money - but we dont want to commit to long term big wages,

Edited August 21, 2023 by Riaz

[One Team]

2 hours ago, glynriley said:

Said after the game on Saturday, after a comment about the pressure growing on NP, I think if we don't bring at least 2 in before the end of the window, the pressure starts to build on SL.

Agreed. I am surprised at the pressure on NP to be honest, the pressure should be (more) on SL. 

[Alessandro]

Any sense of going for it in the transfer market is out of the question. Another 1 or 2 shrewd additions, more likely.

If, as discussed, SL is looking to sell the club, it will be much better to do so with a ‘cleaner’ slate FFP wise, therefore making it a more financially viable proposition for any future investor/owner. 

I think this is the thing that frustrates me more than anything, all this talk of top 6, but the reality is the playing squad is no where near in terms of investment and wages.
 

So it’s the lottery again of can we be that one team that defies logic and all the odds to make the play offs or even promotion. Not looking like it quite yet this season.

[Wedontplayinblue]

I think people need to understand also, that the % of money invested by Lansdown compared to his overall wealth is quite low.

If a fan is on minimum wage, they take home a year £17,841 after tax

If they got a lansdown stand season ticket, that’s £695, which is 3.9% of their annual money.

3.9% of lansdowns reported wealth, which is £1.18 BILLION but lets call it a mere £1billion for easier maths is Forty Million, that’s just todays wealth not what he might be earning yearly. 

In the grand scheme, city can be funded by him on a tiny fraction of his overall wealth. 

[M.D]

Ive had a feeling for a while he's not that keen on NP and wants Mark Robins.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

I think people need to understand also, that the % of money invested by Lansdown compared to his overall wealth is quite low.

If a fan is on minimum wage, they take home a year £17,841 after tax

If they got a lansdown stand season ticket, that’s £695, which is 3.9% of their annual money.

3.9% of lansdowns reported wealth, which is £1.18 BILLION but lets call it a mere £1billion for easier maths is Forty Million, that’s just todays wealth not what he might be earning yearly. 

In the grand scheme, city can be funded by him on a tiny fraction of his overall wealth. 

Although on the flipside, it's a sign of  broken model in general- an organisation turning over £25-30m, or perhaps even £10-15m shouldn't require owner input.

By all means for big ticket infrastructure but not to keep the lights on. Industry is where it is however.

[Wedontplayinblue]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Although on the flipside, it's a sign of  broken model in general- an organisation turning over £25-30m, or perhaps even £10-15m shouldn't require owner input.

By all means for big ticket infrastructure but not to keep the lights on. Industry is where it is however.

It goes to show even more though, that if lansdown is putting £10mill a year in then it’s even less % of his net worth, we’re down to 1% of it.

On % wise, the city fan on minimum wage is putting more of his annual wage into city, with lansdown it’s just money we could never grasp. 

[Rocky]

10 minutes ago, M.D said:

Ive had a feeling for a while he's not that keen on NP and wants Mark Robins.

Robins is his dream appointment and has been for years and years.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

It goes to show even more though, that if lansdown is putting £10mill a year in then it’s even less % of his net worth, we’re down to 1% of it.

On % wise, the city fan on minimum wage is putting more of his annual wage into city, with lansdown it’s just money we could never grasp. 

The model is broken however yes that is a good point but on the flipside without and the same goes for numerous clubs, the owner input the clubs would be in a very difficult position. Or bust.

[red panda]

33 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

This is my huge worry. With Lansdowns track record of hiring managers i have little to no faith that whoever Nige’s successor will be is going to be the answer.

I think the next couple of weeks will pretty much tell us what the owner thinks of Pearson. He has to be backed 100% IMO.

Here we go again.  Sorry to pick on you, but my heart sinks so much when I read this kind of thing.  Have you noticed all the other chairs in the Championship making successful appointment after successful appointment?  Perhaps not.  Or have you noticed that only three current Championship managers have been in post for two years or more (and, yes, Nigel is one of them).  Lee Johnson is Marmite on steroids on this board, but I still maintain he was a pretty good appointment (especially considering the state we were in when he took over).  Dean Holden wasn't successful, but was replaced quite quickly and other clubs have gone on to hire him.  We are now an established Championship club, which is huge progress over not that long ago.  And while not all of SL's appointments have succeeded, he hasn't wrecked the club in the way that, say, Southampton's owners have after deciding that Nathan Jones was the man to take them forward .

There is no easy recipe for appointing a successful manager.  I contend that, actually, our record isn't that bad at all.  For every Mark Robins there are many other disasters.

[Numero Uno]

44 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

You seem to be saying or thinking that Phil Alexander is here for us, the supporters? Is he not here in fact to do a job for Steve?

He is but the issue is what does he do? We all knew what Ashton did because he shouted it from the rooftops. Gould to me is a huge loss, someone who worked in the background getting stuff done then conveying it to the fans at the right time. Alexander is Captain Silence.

[Supersonic Robin]

29 minutes ago, Riaz said:

I think we need to accept we are one of the smaller clubs in the division and therefore, we cant sustain a wage bill to compete with most teams.

Most teams have been in the prem and gained all the resourses that comes with that (inclduing parachute) or they get much bigger crowds.

We got the money - but we dont want to commit to long term big wages,

Have to say that I don't think this is true at all. I find it strange that our club and fanbase are often so self deprecating about our size and ability to compete at this level (nothing against you personally, Riaz).

Granted, I'll give you parachute payments - that gives other teams a big advantage over us. Nevertheless, we're nowhere near the minnows that some suggest we are.

Last season we had the 7th highest average attendance in the league (especially impressive considering our form over the last few years) - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/besucherzahlen/wettbewerb/GB2/saison_id/2022.

I don't have the numbers on it, but I also gather that our revenues have been great since the AG redevelopment, often some of the best in the league when you ignore things like parachute payments.

The idea that we're too small, too poor, or don't have enough fans to compete with other teams at this level is ludicrous. We are, at worst, an average sized club in this division.

The one thing that makes other clubs 'bigger' than us (and in many cases, richer than us), is that they have actually achieved something with their potential, whereas we haven't.

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Supersonic Robin

[Mr Popodopolous]

Without getting bogged down financially.

FFP issues are past now. If any were lingering Scott sale has pushed that away and for years.

We could spend a lot. In theory we could. Whether we should is a different debate entirely.

Definitely need to put some of that Scott money back in however. 2-3 signings, both in terms of quality and depth are required IMO- slightly more if it contains longer term projects such as Murphy and Thomason.

[lenred]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Without getting bogged down financially.

FFP issues are past now. If any were lingering Scott sale has pushed that away and for years.

We could spend a lot. In theory we could. Whether we should is a different debate entirely.

Definitely need to put some of that Scott money back in however. 2-3 signings, both in terms of quality and depth are required IMO- slightly more if it contains longer term projects such as Murphy and Thomason.

Completely agree - especially in midfield where we are crying out for quality,  but the silence on any activity bar Kalas re-signing is deafening.  Appreciate that the club will want to conduct negotiations quietly but we usually get some sort of signal that something is happening and we’re getting nothing.   With such little time left in the window it’s becoming a bit of a worry. 

[BCFC31]

3 hours ago, Shuffle said:

So in the last 6 months we have lost the following from our wage bill;

Klose, Martin, Semenyo, Bentley, HNM, Baker, Wilson, Scott, JD, Moore, Kalas & reduced Wells salary by potentially half.

We’ve added Cornick, Memehti, Roberts,McCrorie, Knight & Dickie & increased cost base with new deals for Atkinson/Tanner.

Not only have we significantly reduced wage bill but also reduced squad depth to currently 19 available to choose from (inc 2 academy defenders & Yeboah).  
 

Also generated £35m in transfers out & lost our 2 best players in process & spent £5.5m on new recruits.

Im sure @Mr Popodopolous & @Davefevs can be more concise with projected savings & if I’ve missed anything. Whilst some of the signings have yet to prove their value (jury out still) surely if we are going to progress now is the time to release some funds and review any internal targets associated with wage bill limits.

I know this is easy for me to say as it’s not my money but I’m cannot see how we can progress this season without further funds & whilst I’m not always happy with Nige, he continues to work with handcuffs on.  Nobody expects us to go to the Ashton days of huge signings/wages but not sure how we progress. Time will tell which way he went. 

 

Weimann renewed on reduced terms aswell.

[algenon2007]

Didn't NP state we could not compete with other teams wages. Meaning we wont get the quality back into the squad.

We need to find some lower division gems....

Edited August 21, 2023 by algenon2007

[Der no.2]

Silvio Dante posted an interview on 12/08/23, which reveals the extent of SL's ambition.

https://x.com/gsypresssport/status/1690264686258716672?s=46&t=oNPHaJCf-XZnPFOJQiVJjg

 

 

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

19 minutes ago, Fred89 said:

It’s not pressure it his club and his money, it’s Just frustrating bein lied to about being competitive and fooled in to buying a season ticket only for our best players to be sold as soon as they have one good season ! Always after pre-season seemingly 

It doesn’t have to be the norm these are our players show some ambition 

In the past FFP was a big factor, the last time we went big was 2019-20 albeit the wage bill hit its peak in 2020-21, £35m (Group wage bill). This is a little reductive IMO.

FFP concerns have passed but I do fear he might be backing the wrong horse a bit- dynamic has changed even in the last month across the League, lots of PL loanees entering e.g.

The horse I fear he has backed is wages and inbound  continuing to remain sensible and subduded. Swansea e.g. have added PL loanees in that time- 2/3, 70 pct of our income, Piroe remains, 3rd year in row minus Parachute Payments.

Hull, Preston, Stoke are three midtable sides who have stepped it up. Coventry given their big sales are obvious granted, market seems to be heating up again.

SL will have banked on a couple of key factors as part of the plan I believe.

The other is now that the Work Permit regime for players who may not qualify has been liberalised subject to some criteria.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Superjack]

I expect Pearson to be gone in a month. And that will be me done.

[Riaz]

46 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Have to say that I don't think this is true at all. I find it strange that our club and fanbase are often so self deprecating about our size and ability to compete at this level (nothing against you personally, Riaz).

Granted, I'll give you parachute payments - that gives other teams a big advantage over us. Nevertheless, we're nowhere near the minnows that some suggest we are.

Last season we had the 7th highest average attendance in the league (especially impressive considering our form over the last few years) - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/besucherzahlen/wettbewerb/GB2/saison_id/2022.

I don't have the numbers on it, but I also gather that our revenues have been great since the AG redevelopment, often some of the best in the league when you ignore things like parachute payments.

The idea that we're too small, too poor, or don't have enough fans to compete with other teams at this level is ludicrous. We are, at worst, an average sized club in this division.

The one thing that makes other clubs 'bigger' than us (and in many cases, richer than us), is that they have actually achieved something with their potential, whereas we haven't.

 

To be fair, i didnt know we had the 7th highest attendance.

But how many havent been in the prem recently AND have lower crowds than us? I havent got time to look - but i cant imagine its many.

ps i'm talking purely financial. Because thats what effects our wage budget.

3 minutes ago, Superjack said:

I expect Pearson to be gone in a month. And that will be me done.

Based on?

[Shauntaylor85]

3 hours ago, petehinton said:

I think this is the point where it really highlights just how ****** we were when Nige came in. All those players gone or revised, and we’re still probably not in the greatest of places. 

SL doesn’t see it like that though does he. He appears to think we should be doing better, JL said the same last season. However it wasn’t Nige fault that the previous regime threw money at average players who all ended up going for £0!!

[Superjack]

4 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Based on?

Nothing, admittedly. Apart from Lansdown's form and NP's personality.

[Riaz]

9 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Nothing, admittedly. Apart from Lansdown's form and NP's personality.

Hope you are wrong!

[W-S-M Seagull]

It does concern me that there is seemingly no transfer activity at present. 

[Oh Louie louie]

Well said superjack, no contact offer for nige concerns me, he has predicted top six this year, bold, but brave, maybe we will see about that by December, I fear you could be right though 

[Mr Popodopolous]

@Riaz

Not just about the crowds now, our commercial revenue for a non Parachute, non PL recently is very good.

Was virtually recovered to full capacity our total BCFC Holdings revenue in 2021-22, not far away from 2018-19 levels.

I fully accept we can't compete with Parachute bolstered clubs in the main, I also accept the case for a bit more caution given the recent past but I can't accept claims that competing financially with Coventry and Middlesbrough is beyond us.

Could list a clutch of others. Again we have to be sensible but..

Edited August 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Supersonic Robin]

9 minutes ago, Riaz said:

To be fair, i didnt know we had the 7th highest attendance.

But how many havent been in the prem recently AND have lower crowds than us? I havent got time to look - but i cant imagine its many.

ps i'm talking purely financial. Because thats what effects our wage budget.

Going off of that list* I think it's only Burnley and Watford who have been in the prem recently enough to be receiving parachute payments. So that's 15 teams with lower attendances and not currently receiving parachute payments. Also note that Stoke's average attendance was only 200 fans greater than ours, so realistically they're pretty much on a level pegging with us too. 

Even with parachute payments, we have to acknowledge that they're a consequence of achievement (that's not to say I like or agree with them). No doubt in a few years we'll be complaining that "we can't compete with teams like Luton who get given parachute payments"............but the question then arises - why do Luton get parachute payments and we don't?

Of course there are other financial factors that have affected us in recent years. There are also teams who we genuinely will struggle to compete with financially (e.g. Leeds). However, in general, club size/wealth is not something that should hold us back at all IMO.

* https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/besucherzahlen/wettbewerb/GB2/saison_id/2022

[sludge]

1 hour ago, Rocky said:

Robins is his dream appointment and has been for years and years.

I agree. Surely though there is zero chance of that happening any time soon, or even at the end of season? He will have better offers than us if/when he leaves Cov. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by sludge

[Superjack]

14 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Hope you are wrong!

Me too.

[sh1t_ref_again]

4 hours ago, Shuffle said:

 

I know this is easy for me to say as it’s not my money but I’m cannot see how we can progress this season without further funds & whilst I’m not always happy with Nige, he continues to work with handcuffs on.  Nobody expects us to go to the Ashton days of huge signings/wages but not sure how we progress. Time will tell which way he went. 

 

Thank you for the insight from within the boardroom

Or do you think the club should be shouting from the rooftops, hey everyone look at all this Alex Scott money we can't wait to spend, just tell us how much you want extra for your players

Or of course you could wait to see what happens between now and the end of the transfer window, (but that may not get the same reaction as it does after a dull loss), if we sign anyone, but as NP has said its about the right players being available and he will not sign someone for the sake of it.

By handcuffs are you including restrictions on players wages, because I think that is as much to do with NP than anyone else, if you listen to his early interviews he talked of not being healthy having large wage disparity 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Thank you for the insight from within the boardroom

Or do you think the club should be shouting from the rooftops, hey everyone look at all this Alex Scott money we can't wait to spend, just tell us how much you want extra for your players

Or of course you could wait to see what happens between now and the end of the transfer window, (but that may not get the same reaction as it does after a dull loss), if we sign anyone, but as NP has said its about the right players being available and he will not sign someone for the sake of it.

By handcuffs are you including restrictions on players wages, because I think that is as much to do with NP than anyone else, if you listen to his early interviews he talked of not being healthy having large wage disparity 

This is all quite fair too but it could give us some short to medium term frustrations as fans if this is a plan of the medium term.

I wonder what exactly the plan is however.  Styles, Willock linked- quiet. Bird was linked to us and Hull, our injured 2-3 months.

Thomason turned us down, Murphy who knows if anything there.

[One Team]

44 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Nothing, admittedly. Apart from Lansdown's form and NP's personality.

Agreed, you can easily see a “back me or sack me” conversation happening, if not already. 

[Sleepy1968]

27 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Well said superjack, no contact offer for nige concerns me, he has predicted top six this year, bold, but brave, maybe we will see about that by December, I fear you could be right though 

As others have said, I don’t see that SL wants to renew NP's contract. Neither do I think NP particularly enjoys losing his best players with the expectation of league one replacements if he's lucky.

So, he'll likely be gone by the end of the season, and I think if he isn't backed to sign a couple of decent players in the next 10 days, he might want to to jack it in early. And I don't see SL standing in his way.

[Rocky]

SL was the one who initiated contact with NP in the first place.  I can't imagine there's anybody in football (or outside for that matter) that is not aware of NP's prickly exterior, even though he's supposed to be the opposite if you're on the inside!  So SL will be fully aware of who Nige is and the possibility of disagreements.  I think it's healthy for an employee to challenge people up the ladder, and those up the ladder should equally like a challenge (they are likely to have had huge challenges in business in order to be successful?!) 

I did wonder if NP fancies a move upstairs, he has bought a house in the area and seems to love it.  With all the talk of his bucket list etc, perhaps he would prefer a mentor/DOF type of role.

 

[Oh Louie louie]

Yep, to say niges patience been, tested is being kind, this probably won't surprise you sleepy, but it wouldn't surprise me to see another prodigy sold, and nobody in

[ExiledAjax]

39 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

As others have said, I don’t see that SL wants to renew NP's contract. Neither do I think NP particularly enjoys losing his best players with the expectation of league one replacements if he's lucky.

So, he'll likely be gone by the end of the season, and I think if he isn't backed to sign a couple of decent players in the next 10 days, he might want to to jack it in early. And I don't see SL standing in his way.

I'm not so sure, my impression is that Pearson is a "see it through to the end" kind of guy. I've said for a while I don't think he'll be with us next season, but I think he'll see out his contract.

Honestly, if that is what is happening here then I'd hope the club take the opportunity to have a measured, calm and well handled handover. Change manager outside of a crisis, to someone who can take the ship that Pearson has steadied and unleash it's potential with the wind in its sails.

Edited August 21, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Johnny Musicworks]

9 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I'm not so sure, my impression is that Pearson is a "see it through to the end" kind of guy. I've said for a while I don't think he'll be with us next season, but I think he'll see put his contract.

Honestly, if that is what is happening here then I'd hope the club take the opportunity to have a measured, calm and well handled handover. Change manager outside of a crisis, to someone who can take the ship that Pearson has steadied and unleash it's potential with the wind in its sails.

I feel the same. He is not the sort who will sign up for another 3 years and then leave after one. After losing several friends recently I would not be surprised if he has already decided not to renew and to get started on his bucket list. I wouldn’t blame him at all and it might suit all parties.

[ExiledAjax]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

I feel the same. He is not the sort who will sign up for another 3 years and then leave after one. After losing several friends recently I would not be surprised if he has already decided not to renew and to get started on his bucket list. I wouldn’t blame him at all and it might suit all parties.

Likewise.

We all know that over the next few months 20-30 football managers will lose their jobs across the PL and EFL, and that there will be a few in the EFL who do very well with smaller clubs and look like options for poaching. I won't name names or offer up options, but there will be a few very good people that we could speak to who will be very serious candidates for taking this club forward should the Pearson era end in 2024.

There's also internal promotion as an option, and I just hope that we can use the time to decide on the best course forward.

All presumptuous chit chat and speculation that may prove useless if Pearson signs up for another 2 or 3 years.

[Mr Popodopolous]

It's a shame as we are or could be with a bit of sensible backing now building something.

If NP does go come the summer, there should be a solid base but the next guy should there be one, will need to be very good.

[cidered abroad]

4 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Did SL watch games or even have any interest in BCFC in that period?

 

I believe the answer to that is a resounding NO.

[BLRed]

Don’t care as to the reaction but what really needs to happen is for the Lansdown to sell up and bugger off and let proper football owners help us progress further. They are definitely holding us back imo. Don’t care for the sentiment of he always saves us financially, that’s his job as an owner. The fact he has to do that all the time shows he’s not a very good football club owner. How many clubs have passed us whilst we continue to tread water? Get them gone and then we can move forward

[Fuber]

5 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Think we are at a very interesting point.

Saturday’s squad was missing Conway, Weimann, Atkinson & McCrorie, which is probably only about one above average in terms of absences yet of our 9 subs 5 have never started a Championship game & 3 haven’t featured in one at all. Another of the subs was Andy King, who we know is near to the end of his playing days & only there to provide experience & avoid it resembling an U21 team bench.

SL said that if Pearson sold players he could expect funds, but the disparity between sales (& in addition to this moving the likes of Wilson & Low off the wage bill) & our incomings is stark.

Whatever the Bolton lad who opted to stay ever does in the game the fact he was our initial target tells a lot about what type of player Pearson is now being expected to work with.

I am very grateful for his investment in the infrastructure & cash flow but a sale to another owner cannot come quickly enough.

Bit in bold is the key. Backed LJ to the hilt as he was a friend. But can't trust the consummate professional in NP as he doesn't get along with him. At least that's my take.

LJ got 75% retention of sales fund as spending budget - in spite of over £30m in wages annually. In a completely non-sustainable stratagem as proven by COVID.

Nige has spent at most £6m while bringing in over £34m. Effectively 20%.reducing the wage bill by almost 30% - the only seasons LJ had a wage budget similar or less were his first two; Nige finished 5 points better off with a younger and smaller squad in 14th compared to LJs 17th, the latter also had Tammy bailing him out.

Secondly, cant get the Luton comparison interview out of my head.

100% need new ownership. For all the money he's put in - SLs decision making (outside of appointing Dawe chairman) has been a sh*t show.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Fuber

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, CrackingCheeseGromit said:

Strange how views can change in just a few weeks. Back at the beginning of August we were saying that the players we had bought were quality acquisitions,  and how we had cover for every position. Play offs were seemingly a possiblity especially  with the soundbites coming from the club.

Here we are, three short games later panicking about shoehorning somebody into the left centre back slot, once again playing players out of position, and the spine of the side looking weaker than it has for years. 

I know.  I was buoyant.  I thought that the Semenyo money had predominantly covered Mehmeti and Cornick and the 4 summer signings, and if Alex did stay, I thought we had addressed some issues of depth, and were ready to kick on.

If Alex did go, we would use some funds to carry out recruiting to the plan.

Then I hear Nige say we are close to our wage budget.

I assume he’s being careful to not pay Scott-tax on new players or contracts for existing ones.  But the sense is that he’s not trying to be smart, but telling us “as it is”.

There is still a bit of time left in the window to quash my fears.

But if they aren’t, I think I will be incredibly disappointed.  I don’t think you raise money from player sales AND cut costs too, and then not be allowed some of it.  If the 4 summer signings were preempting Scott’s money, then SL is being incredibly tight.  And I don’t know why he would, unless we go with some of the thoughts expressed by others on this and other threads.

Talk about potential for knocking the wind out of your sails!!!

3 hours ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Another concern is how the Lansdowns define 'underachievement'.

I recall a couple of years ago we had a minor (but public) disagreement between Pearson and JL about how well the club should expect to be doing that season.

Now, as has been pointed out by others, SL appears to believe that Luton provide sufficient evidence that a manager can achieve promotion with little financial backing. 

The Lansdowns still seem completely unwilling or completely unable to acknowledge the mess that Pearson inherited, and the struggles he's faced as a result.

That Luton comment was crass and really showed that SL doesn’t understand football.

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

@Riaz

Not just about the crowds now, our commercial revenue for a non Parachute, non PL recently is very good.

Was virtually recovered to full capacity our total BCFC Holdings revenue in 2021-22, not far away from 2018-19 levels.

I fully accept we can't compete with Parachute bolstered clubs in the main, I also accept the case for a bit more caution given the recent past but I can't accept claims that competing financially with Coventry and Middlesbrough is beyond us.

Could list a clutch of others. Again we have to be sensible but..

Unfortunately Mr P, the costs of creating every £1 of revenue is too high.  Nige has done his bit on the playing side costs (and some), what is the rest of the group doing.  At one point the playing costs were a big millstone, those have been sorted by and large, a good base to work forward from.  But the costs of the overall model are inefficient.

If I was an investor I wouldn’t want to touch the rest with a bargepole.  Football club, ground, that’s it.  Cancel support contracts for the rest, bring it in-house and control your own destiny.

[phantom]

1 minute ago, Fuber said:

LJ got 75% retention of sales fund as spending budget - in spite of over £30m in wages annually. In a completely non-sustainable stratagem as proven by COVID.

I do agree with your full post but worth recognising the above line in that this spending took years off the club progressing and we are only now just coming out the other side of it

[ScottishRed]

13 minutes ago, BLRed said:

Don’t care as to the reaction but what really needs to happen is for the Lansdown to sell up and bugger off and let proper football owners help us progress further. They are definitely holding us back imo. Don’t care for the sentiment of he always saves us financially, that’s his job as an owner. The fact he has to do that all the time shows he’s not a very good football club owner. How many clubs have passed us whilst we continue to tread water? Get them gone and then we can move forward

How is bailing us out his ‘job’? He could easily take a view, as most business owners would, to cut costs to the point where there is no need for a bailout. That said, I accept owning a football club is not the same as any other business.

Reading between the lines I think he is rapidly reaching the point of wanting out as soon as possible hence the recent  statement and also Nige not expecting to see much of the Scott money. I think the finance man in him is looking to make the club as attractive as possible to a potential owner (s). As many have said he has provided great infrastructure but his legacy will always be failing to get promotion.

It is impossible to tell but the only reason someone would be interested in buying us would be to get to the PL, which, as we all know is much easier said than done. 

I suspect we are in for another mediocre season with the high likelihood of Nige departing next summer. I still believe that if he was backed we would have a decent chance of top 6 but that isn’t going to happen.

[Lord Northski]

I read earlier in this chain that apparently we can’t compete financially with Coventry or Middlesbrough. I get that Middlesbrough get bigger gates, but Coventry don’t get vastly more. Given that supposedly FFP applies to them too Why is it that this is a generally held belief? Would appreciate anyone’s insight 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Lord Northski said:

I read earlier in this chain that apparently we can’t compete financially with Coventry or Middlesbrough. I get that Middlesbrough get bigger gates, but Coventry don’t get vastly more. Given that supposedly FFP applies to them too Why is it that this is a generally held belief? Would appreciate anyone’s insight 

Seems we are choosing not to.

I would have to check their exact turnover etc but they've entrenched a bit too- Ramsey, Giles, Archer, Akpom all gone from last season, they may not do quite so well.

Coventry had a fairly low cost base for some years but lower revenue feeds into cost. They also have less Allowables. Again though we are well clear of FFP now so it can't be that.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I know.  I was buoyant.  I thought that the Semenyo money had predominantly covered Mehmeti and Cornick and the 4 summer signings, and if Alex did stay, I thought we had addressed some issues of depth, and were ready to kick on.

If Alex did go, we would use some funds to carry out recruiting to the plan.

Then I hear Nige say we are close to our wage budget.

I assume he’s being careful to not pay Scott-tax on new players or contracts for existing ones.  But the sense is that he’s not trying to be smart, but telling us “as it is”.

There is still a bit of time left in the window to quash my fears.

But if they aren’t, I think I will be incredibly disappointed.  I don’t think you raise money from player sales AND cut costs too, and then not be allowed some of it.  If the 4 summer signings were preempting Scott’s money, then SL is being incredibly tight.  And I don’t know why he would, unless we go with some of the thoughts expressed by others on this and other threads.

Talk about potential for knocking the wind out of your sails!!!

That Luton comment was crass and really showed that SL doesn’t understand football.

Unfortunately Mr P, the costs of creating every £1 of revenue is too high.  Nige has done his bit on the playing side costs (and some), what is the rest of the group doing.  At one point the playing costs were a big millstone, those have been sorted by and large, a good base to work forward from.  But the costs of the overall model are inefficient.

If I was an investor I wouldn’t want to touch the rest with a bargepole.  Football club, ground, that’s it.  Cancel support contracts for the rest, bring it in-house and control your own destiny.

I mostly agree Dave but cost of staging events has risen drastically in recent years. In house definitely better I agree, that will help but I do wonder marginal gains beyond that just how much there might be.

If wages are the biggest expense of a Business then for AGL they were about 40 pct which maybe too high for an ordinary business but at the same time, a company like Ashton Gate Limited should not be running at a loss before tax- that's mad!!

[Redrascal2]

6 hours ago, glynriley said:

Said after the game on Saturday, after a comment about the pressure growing on NP, I think if we don't bring at least 2 in before the end of the window, the pressure starts to build on SL.

How will Lansdown feel any pressure. It has never bothered him in the past when pursuing an unpopular course of action with supporters and cannot see it now. Promotion isn't his remit it is to cut costs and find investment elsewhere and to hell with the state of our football team.