Bris Red Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said: As if to prove that the cross has been simply been used artistically as part of a consistent colour palette and brand identity, here is the England shirt on the official twitter account today. Note the same stripes on the arm and use of the same colours again in the background graphics. It’s a graphic design and artistic choice, nothing more. The debate is utterly bonkers. Indeed. Nothing more than a graphic design/artistic choice as you said. For balance the st george cross they have put on the socks is the traditional red cross. The traditional 3 lions crest on the shirts also hasn't been altered! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 37 minutes ago, phantom said: You are right it is as simple as that It is all about the red cross on the white background being replaced with other colours Nike have said they have blended in the colours of England's training kit from 1966 Got it, just the colours that matter, not the form. So any changes to the shape are acceptable. Could you point me to the rule book please? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTBLUE Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 5 hours ago, Curr Avon said: Can you be outraged, retrospectively? Asking on behalf of Colin, from Portsmouth. Love to the family Curr Avon. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercidered Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 2 hours ago, Tim Monaghan said: St George wasn't even English It's a sh!te argument which usually gets banded about on or around St George's Day. If you don't know the story behind why St George is England's Patron Saint then perhaps you should. Any flag on any England Football kit should be as it is without any artistic licence required or needed. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dredd Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 3 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said: Sewage in our seas and rivers. Gross wealth inequality and high levels of child poverty. The unaffordability of housing for young people. Grotesque profits for utility companies while bills increase. An outdated democratic system. Unelected Lords influencing our law making and governance selected by whoever the Prime Minister chooses. A third world transport system in the world’s 6th biggest economy. Underfunded and inadequate public services in the world‘s 6th biggest economy. The weather. Just off the top of my head. But...but.... the flag Seriously though, spot on. The uproar over this compared to the above (apart from the weather)... at least we know where our line of tolerance is now as a country. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2015 Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 4 hours ago, TDarwall said: I genuinely don't understand how one can be proud of a flag (unless they'd personally designed/made it). Yeah ask those on X that have EU, Ukraine, Palestine and Ireland flags all on their handles, the absolute weapons. Anyway on the England flag - It doesn't really bother me, but I don't think Nike would have tried it with any Eastern European nations as they'd have kicked off because patriotism is pretty big in those countries... I guess that makes them far right racists. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercidered Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 3 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said: OK just to be clear on this it’s only the colours that matter, yes? Not the form? So if they’d kept the flag red but made the lines curved instead of straight that would have been OK yeah? Just need to check the rules on what we’re supposed to be offended by. Is there a yawn emoji available? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Defacing a flag is a hate crime. 3 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redinthehead Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 3 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Defacing a flag is a hate crime. Jesus Christ Absolutely pathetic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 (edited) 44 minutes ago, 2015 said: Yeah ask those on X that have EU, Ukraine, Palestine and Ireland flags all on their handles, the absolute weapons. Click in her profile, she has 3 flags in her bio. Hard to see who the parody accounts are nowadays Edited March 22 by The Batman Added extra 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, Redinthehead said: Jesus Christ Absolutely pathetic. Yes defacing a flag can be a hate crime. This? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Cowshed said: Yes defacing a flag can be a hate crime. This? But nobody has defaced a flag. Are you just looking for something to be upset about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 13 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Defacing a flag is a hate crime. Outstanding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Some said no other country would stand for this, even home nations, Scotland have done it a few times - particularly that yellow cross on the red kit. That’s exactly the same as Nike have done isn’t it? And no one has commented on the badge on the away shirt either. I think Joey Barton’s made it clear what his problem is with it and others are jumping on a bandwagon. Also no one has answered if they were bothered in 2010/11 and if not why not? 13 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Defacing a flag is a hate crime. Ummm there’s “defaced” England flags up and down the country every Saturday afternoon? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, richwwtk said: But nobody has defaced a flag. Are you just looking for something to be upset about? That is not the flag of England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 53 minutes ago, supercidered said: It's a sh!te argument which usually gets banded about on or around St George's Day. If you don't know the story behind why St George is England's Patron Saint then perhaps you should. Any flag on any England Football kit should be as it is without any artistic licence required or needed. If you're going to quote the story about Genoa and Richard the Lionheart's fleet sheltering there, that is likely a myth. No contemporary account confirms that or indeed that "English knights"(most of whom would've been Gascons not English) ever wore the St George cross during the Crusades. The first mention of English soldiers having a cross on their shields comes a century after the last Crusade, during the Baron's War and that was just a simple + not linked to St George. St George didn't become the patron saint of England until 1552 (St Edmund had been that during Medieval times) and the St George flag wasn't used by English army and naval forces until the 17th Century. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Lovely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercidered Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 8 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: If you're going to quote the story about Genoa and Richard the Lionheart's fleet sheltering there, that is likely a myth. No contemporary account confirms that or indeed that "English knights"(most of whom would've been Gascons not English) ever wore the St George cross during the Crusades. The first mention of English soldiers having a cross on their shields comes a century after the last Crusade, during the Baron's War and that was just a simple + not linked to St George. St George didn't become the patron saint of England until 1552 (St Edmund had been that during Medieval times) and the St George flag wasn't used by English army and naval forces until the 17th Century. No, I wasn't going to quote that story or any other story. If people want to find out how St George became the patron Saint of England. It's very easy to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 5 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Lovely. That is literally a defaced flag 3 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 43 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Defacing a flag is a hate crime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Monaghan Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 1 hour ago, supercidered said: It's a sh!te argument which usually gets banded about on or around St George's Day. If you don't know the story behind why St George is England's Patron Saint then perhaps you should. Any flag on any England Football kit should be as it is without any artistic licence required or needed. Well, it might be a sh!te argument if I was actually arguing something . St. George was a Turk and never visited England. And I don't want to break this to you, but he didn't actually kill a dragon in Libya . I'm absolutely fine with that. I'm confused why that would even be an issue? But thanks for the unnecessarily patronising comment. Anyway, for what it's worth, I'm as patriotic as they come. However, this is yet another case of people jumping on the old bandwagon (like the arms conference at Ashton Gate). This is just the next thing to be angry about. They have changed the St. George's cross on the back of the shirt before, but nobody said a peep. Why is everyone getting so outraged by it this year? Maybe it's a sign of the times? I think it's a stupid thing to have done. This isn't just Nike's fault, but the FA's. I'm not sure how changing our country's flag makes it inclusive? Would they have done that to another country's flag like Saudi Arabia? More questions than answers, but am I gonna get my knickers in a twist about it or get "triggered" (god how I hate that word)? Not at all. I just won't buy the shirt. I'll still wave my St Georges Cross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, supercidered said: No, I wasn't going to quote that story or any other story. If people want to find out how St George became the patron Saint of England. It's very easy to find. The simple answer is the Order of the Garter adopted St George in the 14th Century and thereafter he became associated with Royal events etc. But he wasn't the patron saint of England until 1552 when Edward IV made him it. I guess the feeling was having a King who'd been assassinated (Edmund) as patron saint sent out the wrong vibes in Tudor times! People associate it with the Knights Templar during the Crusades, but their symbol is a Maltese Cross not a "Greek Cross" as used in the flag of England. The vast majority of Templars would've been French at any rate. France had approximately seven times the population of England during the 13th Century. None of this has anything to do with the Nike England shirt of course, but it's an interesting diversion, and may give pause for thought for those blokes who always turn up to England matches dressed as Genoese men at arms. For no apparent reason. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 2 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said: Well, it might be a sh!te argument if I was actually arguing something . St. George was a Turk Well, not really, as Turks didn't live in what is now Turkey in the 1st Century. He was probably Greek speaking - you'll note Geogios is a very popular Greek name - but was actually born in a town now in Israel. Let's not go there... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Monaghan Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said: Well, not really, as Turks didn't live in what is now Turkey in the 1st Century. He was probably Greek speaking - you'll note Geogios is a very popular Greek name - but was actually born in a town now in Israel. Let's not go there... I didn't know that to be fair. Still, it makes no difference on my thoughts on it. I don't really care where the guy was from, but I do love my country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercidered Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 6 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said: Well, it might be a sh!te argument if I was actually arguing something . St. George was a Turk and never visited England. And I don't want to break this to you, but he didn't actually kill a dragon in Libya . I'm absolutely fine with that. I'm confused why that would even be an issue? But thanks for the unnecessarily patronising comment. Anyway, for what it's worth, I'm as patriotic as they come. However, this is yet another case of people jumping on the old bandwagon (like the arms conference at Ashton Gate). This is just the next thing to be angry about. They have changed the St. George's cross on the back of the shirt before, but nobody said a peep. Why is everyone getting so outraged by it this year? Maybe it's a sign of the times? I think it's a stupid thing to have done. This isn't just Nike's fault, but the FA's. I'm not sure how changing our country's flag makes it inclusive? Would they have done that to another country's flag like Saudi Arabia? More questions than answers, but am I gonna get my knickers in a twist about it or get "triggered" (god how I hate that word)? Not at all. I just won't buy the shirt. I'll still wave my St Georges Cross. All I did was respond to your post: 'St George wasn't even English'. The end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 54 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Defacing a flag is a hate crime. Maybe have a read of this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49263379 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 37 minutes ago, Cowshed said: That is not the flag of England. You're quite correct, it's a small motif at the back of the neck of the new England shirt. It would remain as such if it was just plain red and white. You know it's not a flag, I know it's not a flag, why bring defacing flags into it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted March 22 Admin Report Share Posted March 22 1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said: Got it, just the colours that matter, not the form. So any changes to the shape are acceptable. Could you point me to the rule book please? Page 1 of this thread It's clearly only about the colours changing, not sure why that is so difficult to understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Tim Monaghan said: I didn't know that to be fair. Still, it makes no difference on my thoughts on it. I don't really care where the guy was from, but I do love my country. He may not even have existed. Interesting that in addition to England and six other countries, St George is also the patron saint of farmers, syphilis, sheep, lepers and boy scouts. Make of that what you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted March 22 Admin Report Share Posted March 22 3 minutes ago, supercidered said: All I did was respond to your post: 'St George wasn't even English'. The end. No relevance to this debate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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