New England Kit

[Stortz]

Just now, SecretSam said:

Yeah, but not for breakfast. That's so offensive. You're literally forcing me to eat them.

I shall reflect on my microaggression.

[handsofclay]

If we shouldn't be so concerned about the ENGLAND flag being changed on the shirts worn by ENGLAND players in Euro 2024, what is the point of getting behind ENGLAND playing in a tournament against other countries. In fact, why not change all the notes in the National Anthem. We could take the lead and by the 2026 World Cup no team will play under their flag or their anthem and by Euro 2028 the first fixture will be One Team against Another Team as by then the names of the countries will be irrelevant too. 

[exAtyeoMax]

Just now, LondonBristolian said:

The George Cross hasn't suddenly ceased to exist though. It's not banned, it's not no longer going to be displayed in any way at other matches or anything else. And it's not as if literally every England kit ever has prominently featured a George Cross and this one does not. The sudden existence of a cross in a new colour doesn't suddenly invalidate very George Cross in existence. And people will still take it to Wembley.

As you'll see from my post, I've not branded anyone a right wing idiot so that's a little bit of an odd projection on your part.

What I would say is that England is a nation of 55 million and I object to a tiny minority of those people claiming they are somehow the authority of what is or is not "English" and that their sense of what it means to be English is somehow more valid or relevant than anyone else's.

That's why you have a symbol that represents all those different qualities ie a flag. It's not for Nike to alter a country's flag. 

I wan't quoting you on that part only the section in bold.

[The Batman]

11 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Forget the whole flag outrage. 

That purple kit is the most beautiful England football kit I think I’ve ever seen.  Part of me wants to buy one. Then I remember the price and the fact that I’m 43. But it very nearly had me. 

It is a belter but the side parts ruin it. Shame it ain't the same colour all the way around. 

That Narinder Kaur skank is on Jeremy vine at the min saying how it's solely a flag of bigotry, fascism and racism and nothing else. Obviously it's one person's opinion and probably just saying it to get people to call in but you never know. 

She's subsequently said that nobody is proud of this flag. Well I'm someone with not too distant Caribbean ancestry and dating an Indian lady. I'm proud of it, come throw the race card at me.

[Davefevs]

Just now, exAtyeoMax said:

That's why you have a symbol that represents all those different qualities ie a flag. It's not for Nike to alter a country's flag. 

I wan't quoting you on that part only the section in bold.

I guess Nike didn’t do it on a whim?

[exAtyeoMax]

Just now, Davefevs said:

I guess Nike didn’t do it on a whim?

no. I expect not. 

[SecretSam]

Just now, Davefevs said:

I guess Nike didn’t do it on a whim?

Or without consulting their stakeholders.

[ChippenhamRed]

19 minutes ago, spudski said:

 

If you'd read my posts you'd understand I'm not ' outraged'. 

And you've proved my point. You aren't proud of the flag and that it represents us as a nation.

What's even sadder...for every topic like this, people like you and others, get so wound up and triggered by other people who have minds of their own who express an opinion. You go out of your way to find examples and spout your hatred to anything considered nationalistic as Tory, media and culture war led. 

It's the likes of yourself that gets the most triggered. 

I dislike the Tories. It has nothing to do with politics. 

I feel sorry for people like you.

You’re determined to tell us all how “wound up” and “triggered” we all are.

Yet we’re all calmly and articulately debate the issue, while you’re getting all angry and telling people to “**** off”.

Perhaps ponder that for a second.

[MarcusX]

19 hours ago, 54-46 said:

Personally, can't believe people care so much about this.

Don't recall so much outrage back in 2010 when this one came out.

 

So my view is that I can understand why people don't like it.

As a "lefty" I'd usually be in the "so what" crowd - but I think Nike have messed up here. I think Umbro got away with it, probably in part because people didn't even realise or think about it, but also because it still has the actual red cross - it just has others.

It does beg the question why only some defacing of the flag is frowned upon. In some countries, eg the USA, their flag is highly protected. It's deemed unacceptable to deface or add anything to the US flag.

Over here, we have all sorts of shit added to England flags by club fans, sometimes even colour changes - and it goes completely without comment:

[spudski]

7 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

You’re determined to tell us all how “wound up” and “triggered” we all are.

Yet we’re all calmly and articulately debate the issue, while you’re getting all angry and telling people to “**** off”.

Perhaps ponder that for a second.

Perhaps we should all have a group hug and discuss our anxiety, die our hair blue and enjoy some soya, without mansplayingof course or showing any bit passion. I'll bring my guitar and we can learn Kumbeya together. FFS...same old wet wipes.

[RedRaw]

52 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I thought the admin role involved moderation and keeping things civil? Not spreading hate

Ohhh….so now you have seen something that clearly triggers you, you make fuss.

whats the issue? As you said about the England flag, its only “a tiny detail”

34 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

And who thinks a symbol is what makes a nation, and gives it pride

 

[phantom]

56 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I thought the admin role involved moderation and keeping things civil? Not spreading hate

No, but nice attempt at turning the topic

It's not "spreading hate" just showing the picture of a quote already in the thread

44 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I don't feel my nation is represented by a piece of Chinese made cloth, designed by an American company.

I feel it is represented by the behaviours, values and actions of its people.

A tiny detail on a sport shirt I won't buy doesn't really affect my view.

For someone who keeps telling us all you are not interested, why have you posted and reacted so many times in this thread

#triggered

[Fordy62]

33 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Sell your car to pay for it!

(nice motor btw)

Thanks mate. Seeing as you brought it up… anyone wanna buy a car? 

(gotta make the most of these sales opportunities!)

 

[SecretSam]

3 minutes ago, phantom said:

For someone who keeps telling us all you are not interested, why have you posted and reacted so many times in this thread

#triggered

I didn't say I "wasn't interested".

I said I wasn't bothered about the flag. The debate fascinates me.

Edited March 22 by SecretSam

[phantom]

Just now, SecretSam said:

I didn't say I "wasn't interested".

I said I wasn't bothered.

But still responding . . . .

[RedRock]

1 minute ago, MarcusX said:

So my view is that I can understand why people don't like it.

As a "lefty" I'd usually be in the "so what" crowd - but I think Nike have messed up here. I think Umbro got away with it, probably in part because people didn't even realise or think about it, but also because it still has the actual red cross - it just has others.

It does beg the question why only some defacing of the flag is frowned upon. In some countries, eg the USA, their flag is highly protected. It's deemed unacceptable to deface or add anything to the US flag.

Over here, we have all sorts of shit added to England flags by club fans, sometimes even colour changes - and it goes completely without comment:

Ummm…. I think the clue is in ‘the official England shirt’. 

Some highly-paid diversity bod in the FA either initiated or approved this aberration. 

Maybe Nike should have a bit lighthearted fun and alter their brand motif so it becomes unrecognisable on the shirt…. but hey, they wouldn’t do that as their commercial interests are far more important than our national identity.

Hopefully, someone will come to the rescue and produce copies with the England flag on so nobody buys the official de-flagged and, btw, obscenely over-priced shirt. 

[SecretSam]

1 minute ago, phantom said:

But still responding . . . .

Read my edited post. I like to take time to consider my replies.

[bearded_red]

Was stunned when reading this thread yesterday that OTIB’s resident nutcase had missed the opportunity to make yet another show of himself, glad he’s made up for it today. All is right with the world again. 

[SecretSam]

2 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

 OTIB’s resident nutcase had missed the opportunity to make yet another show of himself

You're gonna need to narrow that down...

Edited March 22 by SecretSam

[lenred]

1 hour ago, Hayfield8 said:

Why do people play dumb when it comes to England and why this can be seen as disrespectful to the country the kit is suppose to represent?

If this were another country, I can't help but think those not understanding the issue would suddenly understand the concept of a national flag being a symbol of a nation, one that has specific colours that are key identifiers of that nation's flag.

This is also coming at a time where there is clearly an orchestrated push to erode English identity and pride, and from a company that is very deep into the identity politics culture war does make this seem more than a playful redesign.

Symbolism and its importance is a well known concept to the left, the pride flag, Palestinian flag, raised fist of power etc. so how come when it's with England they act dumb? 

How is it ‘disrespectful’?  We didn’t even have any reference at all to the St George’s flag on any shirts until the 2000s. It’s a bloody badge on the back of a collar and it’s been messed with before and I don’t remember people getting so bent out of shape about it then.   There are a million and one things more worthy of people’s ire going on at the moment in this country. Shame people don’t care and vent so much about those things!! 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Oh, so it’s only the colour that matters? Not the form? You think the stars aren’t an important part of the American flag?

I’m disappointed Starmer has said anything. He shouldn’t have risen to it. Doesn’t mean the root cause isn’t a right wing agenda.

And if you can’t see how the right wing press and Tories are driving a culture war, then I pity you. It’s literally all they have left now. I’m bringing politics into it because it’s relevant to the debate and it is the root of where this utterly mindless debate has come from.

Why “should” people be proud of a flag? Why can’t they just not care about stuff that makes no material difference to their lives?

How is being proud of thr nations flag a right wing agenda? 

Pretty sure most football fans are left wing so that's a bizarre thing to say. 

[nebristolred]

Probably worth noting that when we actually won something our national identity was different again.

Honestly this is all just ****ing crazy to me. It's not an erosion of identity. It's not being woke. It's a tiny little flag on a kit, it's absolutely bonkers.

Anyone complaining about this has no right to ever call someone else a snowflake ever again. Put your energy into something that matters.

13 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Pretty sure most football fans are left wing so that's a bizarre thing to say. 

I'd have thought the opposite to be fair, though purely on a hunch. I have no proof either way.

[phantom]

3 hours ago, The Batman said:

Has Southgate or someone from the FA spoke about it yet? 

He's not been asked on record yet, but there's a live pre match conference with him and John Stones later this morning 

SSN are reporting the publics reaction so he's sure to be asked 

But there's no way he'll publicly criticise Nike etc for fear of contractual consequences 

[phantom]

2 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

Probably worth noting that when we actually won something our national identity was different again.

Honestly this is all just ****ing crazy to me. It's not an erosion of identity. It's not being woke. It's a tiny little flag on a kit, it's absolutely bonkers.

Anyone complaining about this has no right to ever call someone else a snowflake ever again. Put your energy into something that matters.

I'd have thought the opposite to be fair, though purely on a hunch. I have no proof either way.

Just for discussion, is it comparable to a football club changing their badge on a third kit? 

National flag / club badge? 

[Redrascal2]

1 hour ago, SecretSam said:

I feel sorry for someone prepared to get that upset about a detail on a football shirt, smaller than a postage stamp.

And who thinks a symbol is what makes a nation, and gives it pride.

Then you feel sorry for me then. So often English people are dissuaded from flying the flag of St George as it implies we are right  wing fanatics or so the media would have you believe. All other countries can wave their flags with no such accusations. And now  they have changed the flag all together. Yet another attack on our history and tradition which is constantly being chipped away at. 

 

[8 men had a dream]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

To be honest, I'm fed up of the usual easily-offended outrage-seekers constantly trying to find things to whinge about and spoil things for everyone else.

It's a tiny cross in a relatively hidden area the kit in a slightly different colour FFS and it's not even the first time someone's played around a bit with a national flag. (Team GB in 2012, for example). It's a minor design choice. And frankly, if someone is so insecure in their sense of national identity that a slightly different flag sends them into a panic then that says far more about them than anything else. I suspect the vast majority of us are secure enough in our sense of Englishness to not need to treat a minor change in the colour of one small cross as an issue. I feel pretty confident that - on Saturday, Tuesday and any other England game - there will be more than enough St George Crosses to compensate.

As ever, it's a tiny number of people constantly trying to undermine our sense of national cohesion and pretending they own the concept of Englishness in the way the rest of us somehow do not. I'm frankly sick of the neediness, attention-seeking and attempts to divide England as a nation. 

Yes I totally agree.

We are about to play 2 excellent friendlies, have a really promising tournament on the horizon and yet there is an issue that has divided England's supporters.

Reminds me about the Euros 2020(21) when the divisive issue was taking the knee - rather than everyone uniting around the England team.

It's such a shame things become so divisive these days.

It's the lead on the Daily Mail!! Surely there are more important things happening in the world.

Division results in engagement results in profits.

[redsince1994]

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

Forget the whole flag outrage. 

That purple kit is the most beautiful England football kit I think I’ve ever seen.  Part of me wants to buy one. Then I remember the price and the fact that I’m 43. But it very nearly had me. 

Lovely eh! I'm in the same boat, i havent had a replica shirt for about 20 years but am considering this one.

Then I remember that it is unlikely to look anywhere as good on me compared to Bukayo Saka 

[redkev]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I guess Nike didn’t do it on a whim?

I expect there are a few in the fa who obviously signed this off keeping there heads below the parapet today ,

would love to see the players take a stand on this and wear the old kit out tomorrow night

[ChippenhamRed]

28 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

How is being proud of thr nations flag a right wing agenda? 

Pretty sure most football fans are left wing so that's a bizarre thing to say. 

If only that’s what I’d said.

[Fjmcity]

St George did not slay that dragon for this