New England Kit

[Colombo Robin]

I think would look nice and progressive with a small Islamic star and crescent incorporated somehow.  Thoughts....?

Edited March 22 by Colombo Robin

[Tim Monaghan]

1 hour ago, Fjmcity said:

St George did not slay that dragon for this 

St George wasn't even English

[ExiledAjax]

59 minutes ago, TDarwall said:

Ok, so what does a nation flag signify?

Each to their own, I support our sports teams but i don't really get the whole issue of national pride.  We had no choice, we just happened to be born here. We could have been born anywhere & we'd have felt the same about there as here.

This whole furore looks particularly odd when you realise that Wales, England, NI, and Scotland aren't even countries in the modern sense.

Having a sense of identity with one of the regions is fine, but imo the country we live in is the United Kingdom. However for queer historic reasons that country is permitted to enter 4 teams in certain international sporting competitions. Which is odd beyond belief.

The st George's flag has about the same status as the bear of California or the Texan lonestar. It's a flag, of a region, of a country...but it's not a "national" flag.

[RedRock]

1 minute ago, JBFC II said:

Irony being St George was a 3rd Century Turk who is unlikely to have ever visited the UK.

His 'cross' was only added to the Royal Standard in 1348 and only became incorporated into the flag of Britain in the early 17th century.

It's only very recently that it's been viewed in such a patriotic way outside of military use

You wait ‘til the Irish find out that St Patrick was English and was abducted as a slave from England to Ireland.

 

[lenred]

56 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

BBC: Sunak says 'don't mess' with flag

Also from the Conservatives:

But but but but!

[RUSSEL85]

Stayed very quiet on this subject as I expected this to occur. A majority of people on here seem not that bothered about the change. Personally I don’t like the change but then again I wouldn’t wear or buy a football shirt at my age anyway. 
 

for balance, there was a pole on FB, Martin Lewis page specifically where 21k voted on the issue, of which 16k are saying to ditch it (3K don’t care).

I expect Nike to do another version of the shirt as well as the current with the correct version of the flag.

[Markthehorn]

If people don't like it then don't buy - over priced no doubt anyway ..

People will soon forget about the kit once the team starts playing I am sure.

 

 

 

 

[Robbored]

16 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Irony being St George was a 3rd Century Turk who is unlikely to have ever visited the UK.

His 'cross' was only added to the Royal Standard in 1348 and only became incorporated into the flag of Britain in the early 17th century.

There are different narratives about the origin of St George as our patron saint.  One says that he was a Roman officer tortured to renounce his Christian faith. Another that he was the 12th Century Crusaders who invoked his name in battle.

As for slaying the dragon - that obviously didn’t occur but the ‘dragon’ was euphemism for the devil.

It reality like most Saints history is clouded in imagination and mystery.

[Lew-T]

3 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Here’s the American Airlines logo. It captures the essence of the American flag, but it’s an artistic variation of it - there are no stars. Brands play with familiar iconography like this all the time. In this instance they’ve just played with the cross to align with the colour scheme of the shirt. So what?

A ridiculous fuss over nothing by people who care far too much about things that don’t matter, stoked by the utterly tedious Tory and right wing media-driven culture wars.

Poor comparison really. That’s pretty obvious that it represents the United States? Red, white and blue… stripes.

I’m not too bothered either way, like others have said, there are plenty other things to worry about. I know I’m English and proud of it. I don’t need a tiny flag on a shirt that will be forgotten about in a year to remind me.

[Lew-T]

It’s the same old people wearing their political knickers and getting them in a twist.

That side of the forum is a cesspit. Perhaps this thread should be over there…

[Baba Yaga]

21 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

It’s absolutely that, it’s an artistic choice to align with the colour palettes used on the kits. Nothing to do with “inclusion” or anything like that, which isn’t represented by that limited colour range anyway.

But that doesn’t fit with people’s weird need to be offended by even the most minor of things.

For me it's a little annoying that they changed the away kit to a new colour that has nothing to do with England (although nobody else seems to care much so guess I am in the minority), but in light of doing that I can see why the cross was changed to make it more consistent so have no problem there.

What is much worse is the Germany away kit, for a home tournament they have changed their colours to pink/purple and if I was German I would probably be just as offended. 

 

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, RedRock said:

Ummm…. I think the clue is in ‘the official England shirt’. 

Some highly-paid diversity bod in the FA either initiated or approved this aberration. 

Maybe Nike should have a bit lighthearted fun and alter their brand motif so it becomes unrecognisable on the shirt…. but hey, they wouldn’t do that as their commercial interests are far more important than our national identity.

Hopefully, someone will come to the rescue and produce copies with the England flag on so nobody buys the official de-flagged and, btw, obscenely over-priced shirt. 

Not sure what bit of my post you're referencing. I agree Nike probably shouldn't have done this, though I'm far from actually bothered.

But all the comments are about the flag and how wrong it is to change it - yet there's many examples of that happening that people aren't actually fussed about - even clubs who wear blue using a blue cross as a flag.

I would suspect some people are bothered because of what they perceive the colours to mean, but that's just speculation. I don't remember any uproar in 2011.

I believe Nike have since said the cross is to represent the colour scheme of the kits - eg the purple and blue trims.

 

[RedRaw]

1 hour ago, Baba Yaga said:

Considering that people have commented that the away kit looks blue in some light and purple in others was it supposed to be related to that? Whether it is or not the price is too much.

No, Nike specifically stated…..“A playful update to the flag of St George appears on the collar to unite and inspire."

Nothing to do with the away kit. Clearly this marketing ploy has failed miserably 

[Red-Robbo]

3 hours ago, Curr Avon said:

Can you be outraged, retrospectively? Asking on behalf of Colin, from Portsmouth.

Folk knows what all these cultural war warriors thought prior to 2002 when our shirts never featured a flag....

[frenchred]

4 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Here’s the American Airlines logo. It captures the essence of the American flag, but it’s an artistic variation of it - there are no stars. Brands play with familiar iconography like this all the time. In this instance they’ve just played with the cross to align with the colour scheme of the shirt. So what?

A ridiculous fuss over nothing by people who care far too much about things that don’t matter, stoked by the utterly tedious Tory and right wing media-driven culture wars.

The USA does not have an official flag carrying airline

So somewhat blows your tedious theory out the water

[Curr Avon]

2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Folk knows what all these cultural war warriors thought prior to 2002 when our shirts never featured a flag....

They were fighting on the front line of the War Against Christmas. 

[ChippenhamRed]

Just now, frenchred said:

The USA does not have an official flag carrying airline

So somewhat blows your tedious theory out the water

No “theory”. It’s simply an example of a brand using familiar national emblems in an artistic manner. Exactly as has been done by Nike here.

But it appears I can’t keep up with the very precise circumstances necessary for people to be offended.

[ChippenhamRed]

As if to prove that the cross has been simply been used artistically as part of a consistent colour palette and brand identity, here is the England shirt on the official twitter account today.

Note the same stripes on the arm and use of the same colours again in the background graphics.

It’s a graphic design and artistic choice, nothing more. The debate is utterly bonkers.

[Baba Yaga]

Just now, RedRaw said:

No, Nike specifically stated…..“A playful update to the flag of St George appears on the collar to unite and inspire."

Nothing to do with the away kit. Clearly this marketing ploy has failed miserably 

Fair enough this is what they have clearly stated so can't dispute it if people take it at face value, but personally I don't take those comments too seriously because I have seen similar too many times before with new kit releases, for me it's just horseshit marketing talk that they do everytime they release kits and they often have no substance behind them.

 

[54-46]

7 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

They were fighting on the front line of the War Against Christmas. 

And Easter chocolate eggs 

[frenchred]

Just now, Baba Yaga said:

Fair enough this is what they have clearly stated so can't dispute it if people take it at face value, but personally I don't take those comments too seriously because I have seen similar too many times before with new kit releases, for me it's just horseshit marketing talk that they do everytime they release kits and they often have no substance behind them.

 

Sscchhhhhh do t tell Chippenham red he's fell for it!

[MarcusX]

6 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

As if to prove that the cross has been simply been used artistically as part of a consistent colour palette and brand identity, here is the England shirt on the official twitter account today.

Note the same stripes on the arm and use of the same colours again in the background graphics.

It’s a graphic design and artistic choice, nothing more. The debate is utterly bonkers.

And even more obvious when you see the flag on the away shirt following the same trend

More intriguied by the material on that shirt, looks like a cricket jumper 

[ChippenhamRed]

17 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Sscchhhhhh do t tell Chippenham red he's fell for it!

I think you mean “fallen” for it.

[1team]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

There are different narratives about the origin of St George as our patron saint.  One says that he was a Roman officer tortured to renounce his Christian faith. Another that he was the 12th Century Crusaders who invoked his name in battle.

As for slaying the dragon - that obviously didn’t occur but the ‘dragon’ was euphemism for the devil.

It reality like most Saints history  its bulls#*t.

Corrected that for you.

[ChippenhamRed]

 

[kmpowell]

 

 

 

Edited March 22 by kmpowell

[phantom]

2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

OK just to be clear on this it’s only the colours that matter, yes? Not the form? So if they’d kept the flag red but made the lines curved instead of straight that would have been OK yeah?

Just need to check the rules on what we’re supposed to be offended by.

You are right it is as simple as that

It is all about the red cross on the white background being replaced with other colours

2 hours ago, Baba Yaga said:

Considering that people have commented that the away kit looks blue in some light and purple in others was it supposed to be related to that? Whether it is or not the price is too much.

Nike have said they have blended in the colours of England's training kit from 1966

 

[Leabrook]

1 hour ago, RedRaw said:

No, Nike specifically stated…..“A playful update to the flag of St George appears on the collar to unite and inspire."

Nothing to do with the away kit. Clearly this marketing ploy has failed miserably 

Ummmm, unprecedented media coverage of a kit is certainly not failure.  

[formerly known as ivan]

Not too bothered either way on this. As others have said, if you don’t like it don’t buy it.

However, a good point someone did make was how would the Welsh feel if you were to remove the dragon from their flag and replace it with say a cat?

[NOTBLUE]

51 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

 

Has that photo been digitally altered.