Sid Out

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I'm saying that the club is owned and run by accountants. Work it out from there. This is the same reason that the academy is so important because it is a cheaper way to recruit and pay players. Those who don't quite make it can be sold or provide sell on clauses. There are no coincidences.

How many players that haven’t quite made it have made us any money from sell-ons (or much money from their actual fee in the first place)?

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Bat Fastard said:

You can also add the evidence of our recruitment policy to get cheaper lower league players. 

The policy / plan that Richard Gould and Nigel Pearson formed you mean ?

Edited February 26 by Sheltons Army

[Bat Fastard]

3 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

And that's how to get promoted from the toughest league in the world is it?

Appoint cheaper options???????????????

Probably not - but they are accountants who judge a business on cost before performance.  They were badly stung in the Covid period and have developed a cost effective way forward. It may be that the only way we can progress is if the academy stumbles across three or four players like Scott at the same time. It is also the way we managed to get promotion into the old first division.

[Fjmcity]

Edit

Edited February 26 by Fjmcity

[Bat Fastard]

3 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

The policy / plan that Richard Gould and Nigel Pearson formed you mean ?

The very same. Inspired by the two directors and owner, all chartered accountants.

[Sheltons Army]

4 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Probably not - but they are accountants who judge a business on cost before performance.  They were badly stung in the Covid period and have developed a cost effective way forward. It may be that the only way we can progress is if the academy stumbles across three or four players like Scott at the same time. It is also the way we managed to get promotion into the old first division.

Firstly they are not accountants 

Jon worked in a call centre once though 

Btw - These are the owners that threw endless money at LJ (Who you also lauded)

The Same ‘accountants’ who have spent more to get Twine in on loan than some of Pearson’s signings 

 

Good cost cutting 

 

And.  ’Stumble across 3 or 4 Alex Scotts’

 

Edited February 26 by Sheltons Army

[Red-Robbo]

41 minutes ago, spudski said:

Whilst BT has been a long servant for this Club, do you really think his position now is justified?

He spent the great majority of his playing career at 3rd division level. Failed as a player/ manager. 

Proved he's got what it takes at Academy level. 

Which is where his strengths are. 

What qualifications and experience does he have at this level that makes you think he knows what he's doing to get promoted or even stop us getting relegated. 

Combine him and Crayola...and it reads like a joke. 

In all seriousness...how do we expect great things under their guidance...

 

Nail head meet hammer!

Spot on.  Most DOF's are managers with bags of experience who have enjoyed some success in the past but are perhaps not willing to undertake the rigours of being a head coach.

DOFs tend not to be a bloke who had one shot and overseeing a squad in L1 and made an utter hash of it. That tends to suggest his words of wisdom to young Manning may not be so wise.

 

[Silvio Dante]

1 minute ago, Fjmcity said:

how do we believe clubs outside of parachute payment ones operate. What about that mark Ashton? Scandalous we never even tried to get him here..

TLDR of this thread, the lansdowns never learn but I also want them to keep making the same mistakes

some just won’t be happy until we sell the club into potential oblivion for a shot at “the big time”. Need to know our damn place. First 18 years of my life we were 3 div plodders, second 18 we are 2nd division plodders in the grand scheme of football and life it’s stable and it’s a damn magic formula you’ve got to get to make a next jump. Where do we really see ourselves??

It’s a big old pyramid and we are one of many trying to get it right and there is no silver bullet aside from mountains of cash which do you really want to be dosed with? 

finite amount of people available to put in the “right positions” and we are competing for them just like others so maybe you’ve got to suck it up and work with what you got. 
 

the entitlement of some fans as to what they think we are is mind blowing. 

how do we believe clubs outside of parachute payment ones operate. What about that mark Ashton? Scandalous we never even tried to get him here..

TLDR of this thread, the lansdowns never learn but I also want them to keep making the same mistakes

some just won’t be happy until we sell the club into potential oblivion for a shot at “the big time”. Need to know our damn place. First 18 years of my life we were 3 div plodders, second 18 we are 2nd division plodders in the grand scheme of football and life it’s stable and it’s a damn magic formula you’ve got to get to make a next jump. Where do we really see ourselves??

It’s a big old pyramid and we are one of many trying to get it right and there is no silver bullet aside from mountains of cash which do you really want to be dosed with? 

finite amount of people available to put in the “right positions” and we are competing for them just like others so maybe you’ve got to suck it up and work with what you got. 
 

the entitlement of some fans as to what they think we are is mind blowing. 

how do we believe clubs outside of parachute payment ones operate. What about that mark Ashton? Scandalous we never even tried to get him here..

TLDR of this thread, the lansdowns never learn but I also want them to keep making the same mistakes

some just won’t be happy until we sell the club into potential oblivion for a shot at “the big time”. Need to know our damn place. First 18 years of my life we were 3 div plodders, second 18 we are 2nd division plodders in the grand scheme of football and life it’s stable and it’s a damn magic formula you’ve got to get to make a next jump. Where do we really see ourselves??

It’s a big old pyramid and we are one of many trying to get it right and there is no silver bullet aside from mountains of cash which do you really want to be dosed with? 

finite amount of people available to put in the “right positions” and we are competing for them just like others so maybe you’ve got to suck it up and work with what you got. 
 

the entitlement of some fans as to what they think we are is mind blowing. 

I’d just like to congratulate you on using TLDR three times in a post, therefore ensuring the “DR” part,

However, it’s clear from your summary you didn’t read the thread yourself. So, play it Alanis…

[Merrick's Marvels]

6 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Probably not - but they are accountants who judge a business on cost before performance.  They were badly stung in the Covid period and have developed a cost effective way forward. It may be that the only way we can progress is if the academy stumbles across three or four players like Scott at the same time. It is also the way we managed to get promotion into the old first division.

Seriously? Bloody hell. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

27 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Nigel plus two coaches replaced by a manager and coach from the lower leagues. Go figure the cost and add in Rennie whilst you are there.

Penny Wise, Pound Foolish springs to mind if that truly is the plan or a key factor of it.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

The very same. Inspired by the two directors and owner, all chartered accountants.

I think you’re giving a helluva lot of credit to the wrong people.  You’re crediting that created the problem that needed solving.  You should be crediting the people who created the plan to solve it and then executed it.

[Superjack]

3 hours ago, Red white and red said:

Only in recent months?

First time you’re looking forward to being sold?

Seriously, Lansdown lost touch years ago. McInnes wasn’t the correct replacement, brought in a load of overpaid, average players and we got relegated. Lee Johnson was here for far too long and was allowed to spend far too much money on average players. A very bloated squad. Lansdown had absolutely no grip on anything and look where we ended up. A financial shambles.

Steve Cotterill wasn’t his choice and look how that went. We brought in the correct players, played unbelievable football, passion amongst the fanbase and absolutely romped league 1. No credit to Lansdown for that. 

The one person who was doing well on a nothing budget, trimmed the wage bill, brought a bit of positivity with it, experienced at managing at this level, has been sacked. Purely because Lansdown cannot deal with anybody who dare say ‘no’ to him. He does not know how to have challenging conversations with managers. Yes men only I’m afraid.

As long as Lansdown is at the helm, this club will be a mediocre, unattractive club. Almost a laughing stock to other clubs and fans. The Lansdown/Bristol Sport/cosy, soft image is the sole reason I haven’t been in the last 3 years. I absolutely love Bristol City but I hate the club we have become. 

[Bat Fastard]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Penny Wise, Pound Foolish springs to mind if that truly is the plan or a key factor of it.

It seems likely, but I have no idea if it is the truth or not. The bits of the jigsaw seem to fit though.

[Sheltons Army]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Penny Wise, Pound Foolish springs to mind if that truly is the plan or a key factor of it.

It’s complete waffle and tosh Mr P , you know it , And I know it and I would think %99.99 know it

Yes we have looked to work to a budget post the mess the Lansdowns Ashton and Wonderboy got is in ,

 

but the claim that NP was sacked shafted to save a few £ is simply hilarious

 

Some of the tosh the Club lemmings And apologists come up with is astonishing 

 

 

Edited February 26 by Sheltons Army

[Davefevs]

@Fjmcity it’s now deleted, but…

Eeeeek!

I think you may not have read several posts, and just jumped to conclusions in your haste to defend.

8 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I’d just like to congratulate you on using TLDR three times in a post, therefore ensuring the “DR” part,

However, it’s clear from your summary you didn’t read the thread yourself. So, play it Alanis…

 

[hinsleburg]

19 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

It is a game of opinions. Tins recruits well and develops player well. He doesn't need to be the best educated person in the club to do his job. Forget the snobbery and try to appreciate his contribution.

Sorry I disagree.

In the job he's in now he's arguably our most public senior figure given Jon's reluctance to come out. Therefore everything he does or says isn't just a reflection on him but also the club and quite frankly it's embarrassing at times. Not just spelling or grammar 'snobbery' but having social media tantrums and goading people.

We need to forget about where he's succeeded (and failed arguably) and assess on the job he's doing right now. In my opinion the club governance and structure is a shambles and in his position he is very largely responsible for that.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

It seems likely, but I have no idea if it is the truth or not. The bits of the jigsaw seem to fit though.

In what way do they fit.  Please explain?

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

In what way do they fit.  Please explain?

I think , They do , but only if you’ve just kicked back a 10” spliff 

[chinapig]

4 minutes ago, hinsleburg said:

In my opinion the club governance and structure is a shambles

A point that passes most fans by as it may seem boring and not relevant to what happens on the field.

So, we do not have a Board in any meaningful sense. We sacked an award winning CEO because, well, why would a business need a CEO? Anyway Tinnion can fulfil that role, presumably because he has hitherto hidden expertise.

There's nothing like following best practice and this is nothing like following best practice.

[Andy082005]

3 hours ago, Red white and red said:

Only in recent months?

First time you’re looking forward to being sold?

Seriously, Lansdown lost touch years ago. McInnes wasn’t the correct replacement, brought in a load of overpaid, average players and we got relegated. Lee Johnson was here for far too long and was allowed to spend far too much money on average players. A very bloated squad. Lansdown had absolutely no grip on anything and look where we ended up. A financial shambles.

Steve Cotterill wasn’t his choice and look how that went. We brought in the correct players, played unbelievable football, passion amongst the fanbase and absolutely romped league 1. No credit to Lansdown for that. 

The one person who was doing well on a nothing budget, trimmed the wage bill, brought a bit of positivity with it, experienced at managing at this level, has been sacked. Purely because Lansdown cannot deal with anybody who dare say ‘no’ to him. He does not know how to have challenging conversations with managers. Yes men only I’m afraid.

As long as Lansdown is at the helm, this club will be a mediocre, unattractive club. Almost a laughing stock to other clubs and fans. The Lansdown/Bristol Sport/cosy, soft image is the sole reason I haven’t been in the last 3 years. I absolutely love Bristol City but I hate the club we have become. 

This is exactly where I am with this club and how I feel. I’m sure there are many more of us to 

Brilliant post 

[Red-Robbo]

5 minutes ago, chinapig said:

A point that passes most fans by as it may seem boring and not relevant to what happens on the field.

So, we do not have a Board in any meaningful sense. We sacked an award winning CEO because, well, why would a business need a CEO? Anyway Tinnion can fulfil that role, presumably because he has hitherto hidden expertise.

There's nothing like following best practice and this is nothing like following best practice.

I think it's the guy who is the CFO who is fulfilling most of the roles that a CEO would do, but again, without experience in that field and it's a penny-wise-pound-foolish move to try to get two executives for the price of one.

[chinapig]

8 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I think it's the guy who is the CFO who is fulfilling most of the roles that a CEO would do, but again, without experience in that field and it's a penny-wise-pound-foolish move to try to get two executives for the price of one.

You are correct of course, though Jon did say BT was growing into the role as well. Not a professional way to operate imo.

[Slippin cider]

Who’s Sid? 

[Cowshed]

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

You said "You can play from possession and play on the front foot" that's how Man City play, hence my comment.

Well excuse me for believing that Manning ball was very much like how Man City play. Maybe the fact he crafted his philosophies whilst working for the City group maybe. 

The City group obviously didn't think much of the guy as they allowed him to leave the group. 

I have watched a impressive AYL Brislington junior team recently all short passing, working the ball up the pitch, high possession, but they were not playing very much like Man City. 

Ederson v O'Leary? Stones v ? The roles? The patterns? Use of half spaces? The formations? Possession yes, but very different possession football Mate. 

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

A lot in there - but just to highlight this. 
 

What you’re describing is a move to a more possession heavy side in a nutshell. And to transition to that, there will be transition of players. And I don’t disagree with building from the base - but what it is would be contrary to a) the continuation strategy and b) our already stated aims in the summer

To expand, we have given Zac Vyner a handsome contract this season. By not including him you’ve expressed implicitly concerns over whether he can do the job LM wants him to do (and FWIW I think a fit Atkinson could) and therefore there should be questions asked - if this was the strategy - as to how good an idea this was.

Im not going to disagree in any way that Max isn’t the best in a possession side. Hes got better, but the distribution is still not great. If you want the model, he needs replacing.

And obviously it is a process, but working on the “build from the back” maxim it suggests spending money there first.

The second issue there is that both Tinnion and Manning have identified the key target in the summer as being a striker. That suggests they see the first building block as different to your analysis (which I don’t disagree with as the sensible way of executing the model). This means the problems then continue as you’ve put the windows in but not built the foundation.

You do have to overlay the club and where you start from in thinking at this point. I think to transition fully and effectively to this model (if it works) is a 2-3 season job. And by the limited number of players you’ve highlighted you’re in the same place. We aren’t going to be holding players of quality for that long, and also based on Liams history, he’d look to move if it does work quickly.

So, I think it is almost as simplistic as I do get what he’s trying to do in theory. And I do see what a “good” Manning team should look like. But I think it’s kind of back to a point that @Davefevs made before - Russell Martin is better at  Soton than Swansea as he has the players to play his way and they are better than anyone else in the league at doing so, just as Liam did at MK Dons season one. And if we were league one, our relative size would mean we would be able to do that transition quickly. The “issue” becomes at this level we cannot afford or will lose quickly the very good technical players that suit this system.

The utopia is him having the best technical players to play this system. The reality is I don’t think we ever get there both due to time and financial reasons so it’s really what he can do without that “utopia” - which is back to the consistent question over him.

Good post tho

 

The team may not be necessarily more possession heavy, in the first two thirds the team is building play, its efficiency, ball circulation can be improved. The intent in the final third can differ the team may seek to penetrate quickly, take more risks versus keeping possession and moving the ball. The team could thus have -50% regularly.     

Liam Manning appears to wants control and possession. Mr Manning may want to dominate possession. BCFC are not a high possession team, it’s a low one. Creating more control and more possession will come from improvements in fundamental key positions.

Control, building from the back, possession is Liam Mannings intent. This requires players with differing skills to primarily stop it, boot it, head it There has to be at least one player at CB in a team that is adept on the ball in a team building from back. City have options at CB. .  

I have seen Brian Tinnion’s remarks he was “excited” about a “big forward”, but “didn’t want to lose the running”. It’s a Giraffe! I could mold that into they want something to stretch play with a high DTI (running and recovery metric) to press like a bastard on the front foot, but it was not much to go on.  

I could have highlighted more players, but transition is gradual. 

I could have highlighted Mehmeti. I think I get the intent. I don't see it on the pitch. Getting more possession to the final third might improve .. There might be a player in there.    

You see how a Manning team can look. You see a process in theory. Bristol City went through a phase of semen up the wall spending with Lee Johnson and went through ways and identities, and plans A - Z, and dozens of players and tens of millions of pounds, accumulating huge financial losses till Mr Lansdown decided he wouldn’t afford it. 

City will never have the best to play any system. Losing players is inevitable, focussing on prioritising players skill to meet teams football is logical. 

And that is enough from myself.

 

 

[Superjack]

4 hours ago, Red white and red said:

Only in recent months?

First time you’re looking forward to being sold?

Seriously, Lansdown lost touch years ago. McInnes wasn’t the correct replacement, brought in a load of overpaid, average players and we got relegated. Lee Johnson was here for far too long and was allowed to spend far too much money on average players. A very bloated squad. Lansdown had absolutely no grip on anything and look where we ended up. A financial shambles.

Steve Cotterill wasn’t his choice and look how that went. We brought in the correct players, played unbelievable football, passion amongst the fanbase and absolutely romped league 1. No credit to Lansdown for that. 

The one person who was doing well on a nothing budget, trimmed the wage bill, brought a bit of positivity with it, experienced at managing at this level, has been sacked. Purely because Lansdown cannot deal with anybody who dare say ‘no’ to him. He does not know how to have challenging conversations with managers. Yes men only I’m afraid.

As long as Lansdown is at the helm, this club will be a mediocre, unattractive club. Almost a laughing stock to other clubs and fans. The Lansdown/Bristol Sport/cosy, soft image is the sole reason I haven’t been in the last 3 years. I absolutely love Bristol City but I hate the club we have become. 

I'll tell you something. 

When I started supporting us in the early Eighties, I would look at the best stadiums and always wanted to see Ashton Gate looking somewhat like it does now. 

If someone had told me how stadiums like this would compromise the matchday experience, I would have probably been less keen. 

Is someone had told me what the rest of this club (if AG is even still part of it) would become under the Lansdowns, I would absolutely have saved myself the forty years of bother.

[fisherrich]

4 hours ago, Red white and red said:

Only in recent months?

First time you’re looking forward to being sold?

Seriously, Lansdown lost touch years ago. McInnes wasn’t the correct replacement, brought in a load of overpaid, average players and we got relegated. Lee Johnson was here for far too long and was allowed to spend far too much money on average players. A very bloated squad. Lansdown had absolutely no grip on anything and look where we ended up. A financial shambles.

Steve Cotterill wasn’t his choice and look how that went. We brought in the correct players, played unbelievable football, passion amongst the fanbase and absolutely romped league 1. No credit to Lansdown for that. 

The one person who was doing well on a nothing budget, trimmed the wage bill, brought a bit of positivity with it, experienced at managing at this level, has been sacked. Purely because Lansdown cannot deal with anybody who dare say ‘no’ to him. He does not know how to have challenging conversations with managers. Yes men only I’m afraid.

As long as Lansdown is at the helm, this club will be a mediocre, unattractive club. Almost a laughing stock to other clubs and fans. The Lansdown/Bristol Sport/cosy, soft image is the sole reason I haven’t been in the last 3 years. I absolutely love Bristol City but I hate the club we have become. 

Post of the day. .
At least most City fans are waking up to the shambles of an ownership the Lansdownes have delivered.

Lansdownes OUT!

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Bat Fastard said:

It is a game of opinions. Tins recruits well and develops player well. He doesn't need to be the best educated person in the club to do his job. Forget the snobbery and try to appreciate his contribution.

As an Academy Director. 

[Bat Fastard]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

In what way do they fit.  Please explain?

I believe that Steve, Jon and the FD are all chartered accountants. Nigel and his two coached departed as well as Rennie. Given where Rennie had moved from, I doubt if he was cheap and Nige would have been paid according to his status as a senior manager brought in to do a difficult job.  Their replacements were a lower league manager and his coaching buddy.  Now, I think it seems to fit that 4 expensive types out and two cheaper types in, seems to suggest that economies were part of the agenda.  The three accountants did not seem to weigh the importance of experience of the sort they lost when Nigel departed.  Maybe you think that Manning and Hogg were more expensive  in which case, if you are right, then I would be shocked and surprised.

[Bat Fastard]

40 minutes ago, spudski said:

As an Academy Director. 

I think he is involved at all levels and seems to be at most of the games. His brief now encompasses academy and the first team squad as well as the pathway between the two.

[Bat Fastard]

2 hours ago, hinsleburg said:

Sorry I disagree.

In the job he's in now he's arguably our most public senior figure given Jon's reluctance to come out. Therefore everything he does or says isn't just a reflection on him but also the club and quite frankly it's embarrassing at times. Not just spelling or grammar 'snobbery' but having social media tantrums and goading people.

We need to forget about where he's succeeded (and failed arguably) and assess on the job he's doing right now. In my opinion the club governance and structure is a shambles and in his position he is very largely responsible for that.

You make a good point. Tins is clearly happiest working behind the scenes and appears to lack the necessary communication skills to be the front man.  That does not mean that he is not able to wield football influence within the club as technical director.  It appears that the skinned out executive is another economy measure and you and others are right to point out that we are not stronger as a result.