Sid Out

[spudski]

5 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

I totally agree with this post. Thank you.

I for one (and I know others) who have already taken the decision not to renew. I've supported City (like you), for many years, 62 and counting but I have rarely felt so disillusioned at the powers that be.

Neither JL or BT have the qualities, qualifications or experience to be in post.

Something must change, maybe SL needs to step in, regain control and put in place a few professional people who know what they are doing because the 2 mentioned above definitely do not...

 

I can't see that happening...they tried it with NP...and he rattled their cot. 

[frenchred]

2 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

Every time we chop and change managers, we are left with a residue of the squad who do not fit in with the new plans.  The cost of carrying these players and changing them is exceptionally high, so it seems eminently sensible to have a strand of continuity in the management structure. Tins is that man. He may not get every decision right and others may not always agree with his opinions and he will never please all the people all the time.  That does not mean that he is not making a massive and valuable contribution to the football side of the club.

But this squad was supposed to be good enough for promotion this year according to junior and the snake, or do you conveniently forget they fed us that bullshit to fit your agenda?

[exAtyeoMax]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

BTs quotes on how we intend to play and recruit below.

It also makes me think it's him that wants all the older experienced players gone...and making sure his 'finds' in Mehmetti and Cornick are getting more game time. 

"Yeah, there will be money in the summer," Tinnion continued. "We'll be in a position to buy players like Anis Mehmeti. There won't be any players coming in that are on the down. They'll all be on the up, they'll all be young, they'll all be athletic, they'll all be able to run because that's what our team is going to be based on now. We're going to be an athletic, young, physical running team."

"There are some really good players in League One that just need the opportunity. What we're looking for is players that have maybe played 200 games, they've got the experience but they just haven't had that opportunity to play in the Championship. We're very clear on what we want, we're very clear on the positions, and we're very clear on our targets so, hopefully, when the final whistle goes on that last day we'll be active."

 

 

I haven't seen much running recently? Pass, pass, pass, pass…

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

What experience can Manning give to young players, on how to be mentally strong against adversity on the pitch and when coaching at Championship level. Against better players and coaches. 

Who is going to be that experienced head/heads on the pitch. 

He's never done it and we won't have any players who have achieved anything either. 

It's barmy mentality to have a team full of young and athletic players with no experience, coached by someone who's done nothing. 

Which bit of that thinking makes any sense at this level?

His guidance is "don't show emotions" which shows his complete lack on understanding of the game. Probably spent too long in the academy game where it is a sterile environment. 

Having players here like James, Wells etc is absolutely vital. They set the daily standards. They show the level you need to be at. They are like father figures to the younger players. King in particular seems to have a fantastic relationship with the younger guys. 

These older experienced pros add something that you can't put a stat or a number on. I think that's what Manning struggles with. 

Manning is a robotic text book head coach. The mental and emotional side of the game he just doesn't get and that's because you cant learn these things in a text book. You need real world footballing experience and Manning severely lacks that. 

I'd probably go as far as saying the players possibly trust and respect the likes of King and James more than the HC based on their experience in the game. 

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

What experience can Manning give to young players, on how to be mentally strong against adversity on the pitch and when coaching at Championship level. Against better players and coaches. 

Who is going to be that experienced head/heads on the pitch. 

He's never done it and we won't have any players who have achieved anything either. 

It's barmy mentality to have a team full of young and athletic players with no experience, coached by someone who's done nothing. 

Which bit of that thinking makes any sense at this level?

His guidance is "don't show emotions" which shows his complete lack on understanding of the game. Probably spent too long in the academy game where it is a sterile environment. 

Having players here like James, Wells etc is absolutely vital. They set the daily standards. They show the level you need to be at. They are like father figures to the younger players. King in particular seems to have a fantastic relationship with the younger guys. 

These older experienced pros add something that you can't put a stat or a number on. I think that's what Manning struggles with. 

Manning is a robotic text book head coach. The mental and emotional side of the game he just doesn't get and that's because you cant learn these things in a text book. You need real world footballing experience and Manning severely lacks that. 

I'd probably go as far as saying the players possibly trust and respect the likes of King and James more than the HC based on their experience in the game. 

[Open End Numb Legs]

So many of these threads begin with 'Posted Saturday 17.05' or similar. 

I fully understand the frustration but I think LM deserves more time to work out how to get points out of a game, during the game, when we are being tactically out played.

[frenchred]

2 minutes ago, Open End Numb Legs said:

So many of these threads begin with 'Posted Saturday 17.05' or similar. 

I fully understand the frustration but I think LM deserves more time to work out how to get points out of a game, during the game, when we are being tactically out played.

So they've appointed a "forward thinking coach" who is tactically inept and we have to wait for him to get up to speed?

[Cowshed]

51 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

@Cowshed

 

You clearly have a high degree of knowledge , qualifications etc of modern coaching and philosophies , and appear to understand what LM is trying to and on the path of developing.

It would be good for me , and the average fan , if in layman’s terms,  if you could set out what this is and what we should expect to see, and notice as it develops,  and what profile of recruitment we could expect to see from him moving forward 

Your not an average fan, you are very knowledgeable one. 

But park the comments of the club to one side about where the squad is and where the team can finish and think about what has been stated about its playing approach.

There is a vision there, a bigger picture and very likely a model of play what Liam Manning x BCFC want. It may not be called any of those things, but that big  picture is there.  

That model is the vehicle to deliver success. And that model of play should drive recruitment, and development. Its the where we/they want to be. 

The big picture is utopia, we are always working toward this. This model will have its principles those front foots, possession etc, and its sub principles how we keep possession, move the ball, its patterns. 

Each role within the team players then need key qualities (good on the ball) to meet the team expectations leading to that vision.

And it’s a big and. Nothing is perfect. Clubs are always in a transition stage of some sort. Reaching the vison (non layman - actualisation blah) is rare, and staying there is rarer still, teams are in cycles .. Klopps Liverpool - Moving towards, great, not so good, moving back and great again

Bristol City squad is not what they say it is. It can’t deliver that lofty expectation stuck out there.  It wont be this front foot possession footballing beast now because the aptitudes of the players can’t meet the ridiculously high expectation.

Working towards the vision, the big picture, the model is a linear process. Its abc, 123 and compromises will have to be made to move towards the vision. Liam Manning is not going to deliver the front foot possession footballing beast now, that’s ******* stupid, but he can move towards the vision linearly and marginally.

Across the team, the team collectively will gain knowledge with training, knowledge is frequently familiarity. Great coaches can take a season to reprogramme great players, Manning and the players? Time is needed.

Possession and front foot can be delivered. The two do exist in unison. Liverpools build up play is clearly possession based then they will stick in a big diag, speed up .. Their passing patterns also allow them to counter press aggressively. Its still possession on the front foot. Control and possession, Bournemouth in the championship did similar turning the burners on in the final third. Ipswich now control possession, and then attack vigorously when they break lines.   

The football there requires key skills in certain positions. Manning appears to want to have more control and wants to play more positionally. It is a measured approach that necessitates having good players behind the ball to reset retain. The team needs more players who can retain and switch –  effective circulation. The team doesn't have this effective circulation hence  passing, ponderous play, lack of penetration .. But this should be an expectation because the approach is being ingrained. The team is being developed, its in transition.    

GK is a problem. The circulation of the ball is not effective. Problem.  

CB looks .. Dickie can do a bit.

CDM/HM ok. The kid Max Bird might be good. Naismith made of something other that glass could play the drop in circulate the ball Alonso (ahem) role.

I struggle to think of any good possession team without good on the ball through that spine. In those first two thirds I would expect to see change. The base feeds opportunity to theoretically attack more frequently, and also counter press as the team moves up as a unit. Increase ability here, options, numbers and cohesion improves.

I haven't gone on further because this is build from the back, and that is like the football. Its a team being built. 

Didn't once use behaviours!! 

[Open End Numb Legs]

1 minute ago, frenchred said:

So they've appointed a "forward thinking coach" who is tactically inept and we have to wait for him to get up to speed?

Fair question, the problem is that the other teams coach is fully entitled to out think him beforehand. LM has to adapt, in game, with the players we have, same as any other coach. I don't think we have many options up front so plan B for creating chances is much the same as plan A.

If he is as clever as rumoured, he will work it out. I sometimes see games where the head coach is sat quietly making notes in the 1st half, ready for a half time change. Better that than standing in the technical area shouting and pointing which is unheard and unseen by the players.

[Selred]

57 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Well the context here is that at Lommel he spent 11 million which is an incredible amount for that league and they finished 3rd. 

Alex Scott showed his class for us, contract was winding down and a premier league club came in for him. We wanted him to stay but he wouldn't sign a new deal and wanted to leave. 

For context, where were Lommel when he took over? Bottom. 

Lommel did spend 11 mil in 20/21 and came third under Manning.

Lommel also spent 8 mil in 21/22, and then another 8 mil in 22/23 and finished 6th and 7th.

 

[Tim Monaghan]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

For me Mehmetti is half the reason we look so poor at scoring. He flatters to deceive. Very little end product and at this level easy to defend against. 

He's a TEMU version of Niclas Eliasson.

[Antman]

14 minutes ago, Open End Numb Legs said:

So many of these threads begin with 'Posted Saturday 17.05' or similar. 

I fully understand the frustration but I think LM deserves more time to work out how to get points out of a game, during the game, when we are being tactically out played.

he had a full 45 minutes on Saturday to see where the shortcomings were. he didn't get it fixed, he didn't change it  (enough to make a difference)

if you are suggesting we just give him 'more time' across the remainder of this season (where we were meant to be 'pushing for the play offs' - JL/SL/BT)  look at our points tally - we are heading in the wrong direction and will be very soon potentially worried about staying up.

[spudski]

26 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

His guidance is "don't show emotions" which shows his complete lack on understanding of the game. Probably spent too long in the academy game where it is a sterile environment. 

Having players here like James, Wells etc is absolutely vital. They set the daily standards. They show the level you need to be at. They are like father figures to the younger players. King in particular seems to have a fantastic relationship with the younger guys. 

These older experienced pros add something that you can't put a stat or a number on. I think that's what Manning struggles with. 

Manning is a robotic text book head coach. The mental and emotional side of the game he just doesn't get and that's because you cant learn these things in a text book. You need real world footballing experience and Manning severely lacks that. 

I'd probably go as far as saying the players possibly trust and respect the likes of King and James more than the HC based on their experience in the game. 

His guidance is "don't show emotions" which shows his complete lack on understanding of the game. Probably spent too long in the academy game where it is a sterile environment. 

Having players here like James, Wells etc is absolutely vital. They set the daily standards. They show the level you need to be at. They are like father figures to the younger players. King in particular seems to have a fantastic relationship with the younger guys. 

These older experienced pros add something that you can't put a stat or a number on. I think that's what Manning struggles with. 

Manning is a robotic text book head coach. The mental and emotional side of the game he just doesn't get and that's because you cant learn these things in a text book. You need real world footballing experience and Manning severely lacks that. 

I'd probably go as far as saying the players possibly trust and respect the likes of King and James more than the HC based on their experience in the game. 

I totally agree...as soon as I heard his first interviews, it was like he was reading from a coaching manual.

My fear is also he maybe one of these coaches that can deal with experienced pros that have achieved so much more. 

Edited February 26 by spudski

[Red white and red]

On 25/02/2024 at 06:33, P'head Red said:

I've been a long term supporter of what Steve has done for this club, but it's these recent months which has changed my stance, and probably for good. There's no doubt the man has done fantastic things for our club off the field, but he hasn't got a clue on how to create a winning ethos. Results on the field are the most important, and his history of decision making hasn't been good enough. For the first time I'm actually looking forward to the day we get sold, it's time to roll the dice. 

Only in recent months?

First time you’re looking forward to being sold?

Seriously, Lansdown lost touch years ago. McInnes wasn’t the correct replacement, brought in a load of overpaid, average players and we got relegated. Lee Johnson was here for far too long and was allowed to spend far too much money on average players. A very bloated squad. Lansdown had absolutely no grip on anything and look where we ended up. A financial shambles.

Steve Cotterill wasn’t his choice and look how that went. We brought in the correct players, played unbelievable football, passion amongst the fanbase and absolutely romped league 1. No credit to Lansdown for that. 

The one person who was doing well on a nothing budget, trimmed the wage bill, brought a bit of positivity with it, experienced at managing at this level, has been sacked. Purely because Lansdown cannot deal with anybody who dare say ‘no’ to him. He does not know how to have challenging conversations with managers. Yes men only I’m afraid.

As long as Lansdown is at the helm, this club will be a mediocre, unattractive club. Almost a laughing stock to other clubs and fans. The Lansdown/Bristol Sport/cosy, soft image is the sole reason I haven’t been in the last 3 years. I absolutely love Bristol City but I hate the club we have become. 

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, Roe said:

 

Obviously it was just one game and it's not fair to purely judge Manning on that, but it still seems so bizarre to me that we've replaced a manager with a lower level one that got hammered by us in the same season

I'd imagine that might be the only time that's ever happened

Pearson must be just so baffled

We put 4 past them 3 weeks earlier in a pre season friendly as well.

[formerly known as ivan]

4 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Completely agree .

My personal opinion is that Brian Tinnion has done really well for BCFC and has been instrumental in changing the reliance on new signings to a pathway for home grown talent. The first team squad  for several years is testament to this.

It's funny that a number of posters have vented their spleen about a simple predictable and inevitable change of manager as it may involve a rebuild yet , at the same time, are demanding a much much bigger rebuild for the entire club, ownership and staff.  Comedy gold.

I don’t think anyone has or is questioning the work Tinnion has done with the youngsters. But that’s the issue, stick to what you do well! It’s the going from career pathways to running the club that is the problem.

[redsquirrel]

2 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

So ,and keeping it to the playing style approach and , to me the glaring discrepancy about a Tinnions repeated sound bites , front foot football ,athletic, runners , pace , etc

Surely the simple answer is one of two things Gull , 

A We’ve (Tinnion) has decided to take a completely different playing path philosophy based around possession , control , processes etc and then identified LM as the ideal fit

or 

B BT , for whatever reason only he could explain , hooked onto LM as the next bright thing and with JL was prepared to chuck aspects of the footballing philosophies , and follow and back Manning instead

 

I guess there’s the third option that they diidnt comprehend or understand what they were appointing in terms of playing philosophy etc , but as I’ve said previously , that’s ridiculously absurd even for them

is C the equivalent of panicking after managing to get shot of Nige saying 'look at oxford,they are doing well,manning must be good,lets grab him' 

with no more thought than that other than tinnion saying he could show manning how its done in the championship?

[Silvio Dante]

22 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

GK is a problem. The circulation of the ball is not effective. Problem.  

CB looks .. Dickie can do a bit.

CDM/HM ok. The kid Max Bird might be good. Naismith made of something other that glass could play the drop in circulate the ball Alonso (ahem) role.

I struggle to think of any good possession team without good on the ball through that spine. In those first two thirds I would expect to see change. The base feeds opportunity to theoretically attack more frequently, and also counter press as the team moves up as a unit. Increase ability here, options, numbers and cohesion improves.

I haven't gone on further because this is build from the back, and that is like the football. Its a team being built. 

Didn't once use behaviours!! 

A lot in there - but just to highlight this. 
 

What you’re describing is a move to a more possession heavy side in a nutshell. And to transition to that, there will be transition of players. And I don’t disagree with building from the base - but what it is would be contrary to a) the continuation strategy and b) our already stated aims in the summer

To expand, we have given Zac Vyner a handsome contract this season. By not including him you’ve expressed implicitly concerns over whether he can do the job LM wants him to do (and FWIW I think a fit Atkinson could) and therefore there should be questions asked - if this was the strategy - as to how good an idea this was.

Im not going to disagree in any way that Max isn’t the best in a possession side. Hes got better, but the distribution is still not great. If you want the model, he needs replacing.

And obviously it is a process, but working on the “build from the back” maxim it suggests spending money there first.

The second issue there is that both Tinnion and Manning have identified the key target in the summer as being a striker. That suggests they see the first building block as different to your analysis (which I don’t disagree with as the sensible way of executing the model). This means the problems then continue as you’ve put the windows in but not built the foundation.

You do have to overlay the club and where you start from in thinking at this point. I think to transition fully and effectively to this model (if it works) is a 2-3 season job. And by the limited number of players you’ve highlighted you’re in the same place. We aren’t going to be holding players of quality for that long, and also based on Liams history, he’d look to move if it does work quickly.

So, I think it is almost as simplistic as I do get what he’s trying to do in theory. And I do see what a “good” Manning team should look like. But I think it’s kind of back to a point that @Davefevs made before - Russell Martin is better at  Soton than Swansea as he has the players to play his way and they are better than anyone else in the league at doing so, just as Liam did at MK Dons season one. And if we were league one, our relative size would mean we would be able to do that transition quickly. The “issue” becomes at this level we cannot afford or will lose quickly the very good technical players that suit this system.

The utopia is him having the best technical players to play this system. The reality is I don’t think we ever get there both due to time and financial reasons so it’s really what he can do without that “utopia” - which is back to the consistent question over him.

Good post tho

[Sheltons Army]

47 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Your not an average fan, you are very knowledgeable one. 

But park the comments of the club to one side about where the squad is and where the team can finish and think about what has been stated about its playing approach.

There is a vision there, a bigger picture and very likely a model of play what Liam Manning x BCFC want. It may not be called any of those things, but that big  picture is there.  

That model is the vehicle to deliver success. And that model of play should drive recruitment, and development. Its the where we/they want to be. 

The big picture is utopia, we are always working toward this. This model will have its principles those front foots, possession etc, and its sub principles how we keep possession, move the ball, its patterns. 

Each role within the team players then need key qualities (good on the ball) to meet the team expectations leading to that vision.

And it’s a big and. Nothing is perfect. Clubs are always in a transition stage of some sort. Reaching the vison (non layman - actualisation blah) is rare, and staying there is rarer still, teams are in cycles .. Klopps Liverpool - Moving towards, great, not so good, moving back and great again

Bristol City squad is not what they say it is. It can’t deliver that lofty expectation stuck out there.  It wont be this front foot possession footballing beast now because the aptitudes of the players can’t meet the ridiculously high expectation.

Working towards the vision, the big picture, the model is a linear process. Its abc, 123 and compromises will have to be made to move towards the vision. Liam Manning is not going to deliver the front foot possession footballing beast now, that’s ******* stupid, but he can move towards the vision linearly and marginally.

Across the team, the team collectively will gain knowledge with training, knowledge is frequently familiarity. Great coaches can take a season to reprogramme great players, Manning and the players? Time is needed.

Possession and front foot can be delivered. The two do exist in unison. Liverpools build up play is clearly possession based then they will stick in a big diag, speed up .. Their passing patterns also allow them to counter press aggressively. Its still possession on the front foot. Control and possession, Bournemouth in the championship did similar turning the burners on in the final third. Ipswich now control possession, and then attack vigorously when they break lines.   

The football there requires key skills in certain positions. Manning appears to want to have more control and wants to play more positionally. It is a measured approach that necessitates having good players behind the ball to reset retain. The team needs more players who can retain and switch –  effective circulation. The team doesn't have this effective circulation hence  passing, ponderous play, lack of penetration .. But this should be an expectation because the approach is being ingrained. The team is being developed, its in transition.    

GK is a problem. The circulation of the ball is not effective. Problem.  

CB looks .. Dickie can do a bit.

CDM/HM ok. The kid Max Bird might be good. Naismith made of something other that glass could play the drop in circulate the ball Alonso (ahem) role.

I struggle to think of any good possession team without good on the ball through that spine. In those first two thirds I would expect to see change. The base feeds opportunity to theoretically attack more frequently, and also counter press as the team moves up as a unit. Increase ability here, options, numbers and cohesion improves.

I haven't gone on further because this is build from the back, and that is like the football. Its a team being built. 

Didn't once use behaviours!! 

Thanks

[Bat Fastard]

1 hour ago, frenchred said:

But this squad was supposed to be good enough for promotion this year according to junior and the snake, or do you conveniently forget they fed us that bullshit to fit your agenda?

Playing at the same level achieved against West Ham and Forest, the team might have been good enough for a promotion shot, but Manning has not been able to keep them performing at that level. Can and will are two different things.

[Natchfever]

3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

A lot in there - but just to highlight this. 
 

What you’re describing is a move to a more possession heavy side in a nutshell. And to transition to that, there will be transition of players. And I don’t disagree with building from the base - but what it is would be contrary to a) the continuation strategy and b) our already stated aims in the summer

To expand, we have given Zac Vyner a handsome contract this season. By not including him you’ve expressed implicitly concerns over whether he can do the job LM wants him to do (and FWIW I think a fit Atkinson could) and therefore there should be questions asked - if this was the strategy - as to how good an idea this was.

Im not going to disagree in any way that Max isn’t the best in a possession side. Hes got better, but the distribution is still not great. If you want the model, he needs replacing.

And obviously it is a process, but working on the “build from the back” maxim it suggests spending money there first.

The second issue there is that both Tinnion and Manning have identified the key target in the summer as being a striker. That suggests they see the first building block as different to your analysis (which I don’t disagree with as the sensible way of executing the model). This means the problems then continue as you’ve put the windows in but not built the foundation.

You do have to overlay the club and where you start from in thinking at this point. I think to transition fully and effectively to this model (if it works) is a 2-3 season job. And by the limited number of players you’ve highlighted you’re in the same place. We aren’t going to be holding players of quality for that long, and also based on Liams history, he’d look to move if it does work quickly.

So, I think it is almost as simplistic as I do get what he’s trying to do in theory. And I do see what a “good” Manning team should look like. But I think it’s kind of back to a point that @Davefevs made before - Russell Martin is better at  Soton than Swansea as he has the players to play his way and they are better than anyone else in the league at doing so, just as Liam did at MK Dons season one. And if we were league one, our relative size would mean we would be able to do that transition quickly. The “issue” becomes at this level we cannot afford or will lose quickly the very good technical players that suit this system.

The utopia is him having the best technical players to play this system. The reality is I don’t think we ever get there both due to time and financial reasons so it’s really what he can do without that “utopia” - which is back to the consistent question over him.

Good post tho

Great post .

Utopia doesnt come cheap and is impossible to maintain unless the promised land is reached.

Plus of course the owners business model undermines the retention of such utopian players anyway.

Wholly impractical, and potentially ruinous financially, as im not aware of the club recruiting a stellar scouting network.

[frenchred]

15 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Playing at the same level achieved against West Ham and Forest, the team might have been good enough for a promotion shot, but Manning has not been able to keep them performing at that level. Can and will are two different things.

So a pretty shit coach then and not all he's cracked up to be

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, Cole Not Gas said:

I now have another reason to hope we win v Cardiff, not just the 3 points; but to stop this utter garbage being posted on a forum for City supporters who dont necessarily want to hear the club they support constantly being 'rubbished' by people on Social Media. I can only presume those on here who like Italian-sounding names or districts of Bristol that should read 'Fishponds' or 'Eastville' rather than 'Redland' didnt go to the W.Ham games, nor the Forest games, nor recently to Coventry nor to Boro. I cant even believe they went to our last but one home game.

 

I think you've won the award for 2024 Happy Clapper. 

Edited February 26 by Mr Popodopolous

[Cidre Monita]

1 hour ago, Galley is our king said:

I totally agree with this post. Thank you.

I for one (and I know others) who have already taken the decision not to renew. I've supported City (like you), for many years, 62 and counting but I have rarely felt so disillusioned at the powers that be.

Neither JL or BT have the qualities, qualifications or experience to be in post.

Something must change, maybe SL needs to step in, regain control and put in place a few professional people who know what they are doing because the 2 mentioned above definitely do not...

 

I have been going to the Gate since the 70’s and share your frustration. However people need to realise that SL is the problem and not the potential solution as you suggest. Remember he effectively sacked Phil Alexander (previous premiership CEO of the year) and NP and Rennie et al. Big respect for you fellow red but that your paragraph is nonsense. 

[Tim Monaghan]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Your not an average fan, you are very knowledgeable one. 

But park the comments of the club to one side about where the squad is and where the team can finish and think about what has been stated about its playing approach.

There is a vision there, a bigger picture and very likely a model of play what Liam Manning x BCFC want. It may not be called any of those things, but that big  picture is there.  

That model is the vehicle to deliver success. And that model of play should drive recruitment, and development. Its the where we/they want to be. 

The big picture is utopia, we are always working toward this. This model will have its principles those front foots, possession etc, and its sub principles how we keep possession, move the ball, its patterns. 

Each role within the team players then need key qualities (good on the ball) to meet the team expectations leading to that vision.

And it’s a big and. Nothing is perfect. Clubs are always in a transition stage of some sort. Reaching the vison (non layman - actualisation blah) is rare, and staying there is rarer still, teams are in cycles .. Klopps Liverpool - Moving towards, great, not so good, moving back and great again

Bristol City squad is not what they say it is. It can’t deliver that lofty expectation stuck out there.  It wont be this front foot possession footballing beast now because the aptitudes of the players can’t meet the ridiculously high expectation.

Working towards the vision, the big picture, the model is a linear process. Its abc, 123 and compromises will have to be made to move towards the vision. Liam Manning is not going to deliver the front foot possession footballing beast now, that’s ******* stupid, but he can move towards the vision linearly and marginally.

Across the team, the team collectively will gain knowledge with training, knowledge is frequently familiarity. Great coaches can take a season to reprogramme great players, Manning and the players? Time is needed.

Possession and front foot can be delivered. The two do exist in unison. Liverpools build up play is clearly possession based then they will stick in a big diag, speed up .. Their passing patterns also allow them to counter press aggressively. Its still possession on the front foot. Control and possession, Bournemouth in the championship did similar turning the burners on in the final third. Ipswich now control possession, and then attack vigorously when they break lines.   

The football there requires key skills in certain positions. Manning appears to want to have more control and wants to play more positionally. It is a measured approach that necessitates having good players behind the ball to reset retain. The team needs more players who can retain and switch –  effective circulation. The team doesn't have this effective circulation hence  passing, ponderous play, lack of penetration .. But this should be an expectation because the approach is being ingrained. The team is being developed, its in transition.    

GK is a problem. The circulation of the ball is not effective. Problem.  

CB looks .. Dickie can do a bit.

CDM/HM ok. The kid Max Bird might be good. Naismith made of something other that glass could play the drop in circulate the ball Alonso (ahem) role.

I struggle to think of any good possession team without good on the ball through that spine. In those first two thirds I would expect to see change. The base feeds opportunity to theoretically attack more frequently, and also counter press as the team moves up as a unit. Increase ability here, options, numbers and cohesion improves.

I haven't gone on further because this is build from the back, and that is like the football. Its a team being built. 

Didn't once use behaviours!! 

Thanks for this. You've explained this a billion times better than I ever could. 

[Natchfever]

2 minutes ago, Cidre Monita said:

I have been going to the Gate since the 70’s and share your frustration. However people need to realise that SL is the problem and not the potential solution as you suggest. Remember he effectively sacked Phil Alexander (previous premiership CEO of the year) and NP and Rennie et al. Big respect for you fellow red but that your paragraph is nonsense. 

Unless Lansdown sells then the only hope is that he goes against type and steps in as Galley suggests.

Reality suggests that may well be nonsensical but we can live in hope !

[Bat Fastard]

25 minutes ago, frenchred said:

So a pretty shit coach then and not all he's cracked up to be

That may be right but, in fairness, he should be given a bit more time to see if he can turn it round.  We seem to be out of any promotion race for this season, so I would expect him to be assessing the squad for next season. We may well see a few interesting team selections. Hopefully the results will improve, but I have reservations.

[Cidre Monita]

21 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Unless Lansdown sells then the only hope is that he goes against type and steps in as Galley suggests.

Reality suggests that may well be nonsensical but we can live in hope !

With all due respect that is nonsensical. Do you honestly think that JL is acting independently of his father? SL is the overlord of our club and anything his son or Tinman say is direct from the big man himself. Nothing will change until he sells up which will hopefully be in my lifetime. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, Bat Fastard said:

Playing at the same level achieved against West Ham and Forest, the team might have been good enough for a promotion shot, but Manning has not been able to keep them performing at that level. Can and will are two different things.

Those 2 cup ties - CUP TIES - are no sort of barometer of this squad's ability to perform week in, week out for 46 games.

They're no barometer of any team's, in fact.

Using your logic, Maidstone Utd are Real Madrid. But they're not are they? They're 8th in National League South. And for a reason.

We're 12th in the Championship. Going backwards. For a reason.

Plus, your inability to separate Tinnion the player from Tinnion the failed manager is baffling - no other club has seen fit to employ this man since he stopped playing, why do you think that might be?   

Edited February 26 by Merrick's Marvels

[spudski]

21 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

That may be right but, in fairness, he should be given a bit more time to see if he can turn it round.  We seem to be out of any promotion race for this season, so I would expect him to be assessing the squad for next season. We may well see a few interesting team selections. Hopefully the results will improve, but I have reservations.

I think you'll find most of the negativity isn't towards Manning perse.

It has more to do with what's been said by JL and BT...how NP was sacked, the lies around that, the quotes that we have a squad that in their eyes is top 6. Even saying they expected promotion this season. 

Manning was brought in to implement that...not to be given more transfer windows and to break up a squad considered promotion quality. 

A squad by their own thinking has quality, which they now want to replace with the likes of Mehmetti. 

And to rid the experience...

[Bat Fastard]

1 minute ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

For pity's sake, those 2 cup ties - CUP TIES - are no sort of barometer of this squad's ability to perform week in, week out for 46 games.

They're no barometer of any team's.

Using your logic, Maidstone Utd are Real Madrid. But they're not are they?

They're 8th in National League South for a reason.

And we're 12th in the Championship, going backwards, for a reason.

Plus, your inability to separate Tinnion the player from Tinnion the failed manager is baffling - no other club has seen fit to employ him since he stopped playing, why do you think that might be?   

The cup games were not a barometer reading but an indication of how the squad could perform over 4 matches.  

Tinnion the player was, in my opinion, very good. His sheer number of matches showed that he was a great servant. He was clearly not temperamentally suited for management but he has clearly distinguished himself as a top class recruiter and developer of young talent.  His vast experience in the football industry has served us well and as I said before, he is paid to make decisions and like any senior executive, not all his choices will be correct or popular, but someone has to make those decisions. He deserves a degree of respect for his service to our club.