Sid Out

[Davefevs]

44 minutes ago, spudski said:

I thought we had the same plan...when did it change? Has BT retracted this and put in a new plan? 

I thought Manning was brought in to continue this ' philosophy '...

So did I.  And in fairness I don’t think January deviated much from that, albeit January isn’t the window to judge per se, this summer is.

The talk from Tins re the striker doesn’t appear to deviate either, so we’ll have to sit back and watch.

But there is of course a downside to recruiting, and that’s on pathway.  And over our time back in the Championship, it’s been the home grown players that generate the most money, not the buy to sell players.

[spudski]

1 minute ago, The Gasbuster said:

God help us if we find ourselves with a side full of Mehmetis and Cornicks.

For me Mehmetti is half the reason we look so poor at scoring. He flatters to deceive. Very little end product and at this level easy to defend against. 

[Cowshed]

3 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

So ,and keeping it to the playing style approach and , to me the glaring discrepancy about a Tinnions repeated sound bites , front foot football ,athletic, runners , pace , etc

Surely the simple answer is one of two things Gull , 

A We’ve (Tinnion) has decided to take a completely different playing path philosophy based around possession , control , processes etc and then identified LM as the ideal fit

or 

B BT , for whatever reason only he could explain , hooked onto LM as the next bright thing and with JL was prepared to chuck aspects of the footballing philosophies , and follow and back Manning instead

 

I guess there’s the third option that they diidnt comprehend or understand what they were appointing in terms of playing philosophy etc , but as I’ve said previously , that’s ridiculously absurd even for them

There is another option. You can play from possession and play on the front foot. The principles alter across thirds. A discovery, or a knowledge is that squad does not have the skills to meet the principles at this point.

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

In fairness 
 

If he gets us promoted or even close (Without throwing massive £ at it)

You have to say ‘And so he actually should’  

 

This is definitely BTs ship

I feel quite confident to say that we will not get promoted under LM. It's just a delusional vision of Tinnions. 

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

So did I.  And in fairness I don’t think January deviated much from that, albeit January isn’t the window to judge per se, this summer is.

The talk from Tins re the striker doesn’t appear to deviate either, so we’ll have to sit back and watch.

But there is of course a downside to recruiting, and that’s on pathway.  And over our time back in the Championship, it’s been the home grown players that generate the most money, not the buy to sell players.

With the recruitment Dave ,

Either we will see a different style of play arrive under LM

or , if they are going to actually back Manning , surely , a change in priorities recruitment wise

Im sure LM would like very good technical players who can also run all day , be aggressive , athletes , with pace , wouldn’t anyone

But the reality is you normally have to compromise attributes at this level

I don’t see the core attributes Tinnion repeatedly highlights as those that would be a priority on LMs

 

Im genuinely intrigued , after Tinnions recent, repeated , comments about a striker , what we target and bring in 

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

There is another option. You can play from possession and play on the front foot. The principles alter across thirds. A discovery, or a knowledge is that squad does not have the skills to meet the principles at this point.

If you're Man City you can. If you have a better team than your opponents you can. 

If you're Bristol City, you can't, not even with unlimited amounts of training days on the grass. 

[Bat Fastard]

20 minutes ago, spudski said:

There's being positive...and then there is delusion. He said they expected promotion this season. And put that as one reason why they sacked NP as they thought he wasn't getting enough out of the squad. 

Now Manning is dismantling a squad considered good enough for top 6. 

Cmon...its all delusional bollox being spoken by the Club. 

I did not want to see Nigel leave and I have reservations about Manning, but apart from that there are a lot of very young men who are caught up in the turmoil.  It cannot help to criticise so many aspects of the club, including the man who managed to get their careers launched.  I have always disliked managerial changes (apart from Pulis, who I really disliked) but we must never lose sight of the fact that we have a role to support and encourage the squad and those in charge of them. Delusion and promotion are sometimes close bedfellows, but belief can give people a massive lift - just what we need right now.

[Bat Fastard]

26 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

But he could have said “we are a club with ambitions of being in the top 6”.

That’s very different to “we have a top 6 squad”.

That is cavilling. With luck and a following wind we probably have a squad that could scrape into the top 6 but only if everything went in our favour. Of course, life is rarely like that.

[Bat Fastard]

21 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Sorry to say but I for one will not be an apologist for liars.

 

Then I suggest you look into the concept of ambition. It concerns a journey to a destination that does not yet exist. To that extent it could be described as a lie. Without ambition we can never get anywhere but some ambitions are not realised. All clubs in the league have ambitions but not all can achieve those ambitions.

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I did not want to see Nigel leave and I have reservations about Manning, but apart from that there are a lot of very young men who are caught up in the turmoil.  It cannot help to criticise so many aspects of the club, including the man who managed to get their careers launched.  I have always disliked managerial changes (apart from Pulis, who I really disliked) but we must never lose sight of the fact that we have a role to support and encourage the squad and those in charge of them. Delusion and promotion are sometimes close bedfellows, but belief can give people a massive lift - just what we need right now.

If you tell players they are good enough for top 6, and they aren't performing to that level, then I can't see how that is positive. 

All it does is create questions as to why you/we/ they aren't performing to that level. 

NP used to repeatedly say he needed the players to believe in themselves. 

We have had and have now a squad that is mediocre. Telling them they are better than that does nothing. They need to be told they need to improve and better themselves. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

16 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

So ,and keeping it to the playing style approach and , to me the glaring discrepancy about a Tinnions repeated sound bites , front foot football ,athletic, runners , pace , etc

Surely the simple answer is one of two things Gull , 

A We’ve (Tinnion) has decided to take a completely different playing path philosophy based around possession , control , processes etc and then identified LM as the ideal fit

or 

B BT , for whatever reason only he could explain , hooked onto LM as the next bright thing and with JL was prepared to chuck aspects of the footballing philosophies , and follow and back Manning instead

 

I guess there’s the third option that they diidnt comprehend or understand what they were appointing in terms of playing philosophy etc , but as I’ve said previously , that’s ridiculously absurd even for them

I struggle to get my head around it mate. 

The head coach we have got, is different to what we stated we wanted. Yes ticks a lot of their boxes on things like coaching etc but the main one is that his style is the polar opposite to what we said we wanted. 

If they wanted to take a different path. That's fair enough, they'd be judged on that separately but as communication is now fantastic - Tony Wilkins 2024, then communicate that. But they are not doing that. They are still sticking to the line that Liam Manning fits with the plan that has always been in place. You and I know that is complete bull and just going along with that line just pisses people off. 

Why won't they admit they've changed the plan to accommodate Manning? Probably something to do with the fact that if they do so it blows up their arguement about making the change to make us compete this sesson. 

I remember when we played Oxford in the cup and beat them 5-1. We had the likes of Ian Gay crowing about how well they played. Honestly some of thr comments after that game were embarrassing. They lost 5-1 to us for God's sake, to us I can only guess that Ian was in Tinnions inbox telling us to get that guy in

The warnings were there in that 5-1 defeat. Looked OK at times but ultimately we're outclassed and lost. And that's how I'd describe Mannings time here. 

What do Jon and BT know about tactics and philosophies? BT was an abject failure as a manager here. I can only guess that with their limited knowledge they were taken in by all of Mannings text book speaking. 

[Roe]

4 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I struggle to get my head around it mate. 

The head coach we have got, is different to what we stated we wanted. Yes ticks a lot of their boxes on things like coaching etc but the main one is that his style is the polar opposite to what we said we wanted. 

If they wanted to take a different path. That's fair enough, they'd be judged on that separately but as communication is now fantastic - Tony Wilkins 2024, then communicate that. But they are not doing that. They are still sticking to the line that Liam Manning fits with the plan that has always been in place. You and I know that is complete bull and just going along with that line just pisses people off. 

Why won't they admit they've changed the plan to accommodate Manning? Probably something to do with the fact that if they do so it blows up their arguement about making the change to make us compete this sesson. 

I remember when we played Oxford in the cup and beat them 5-1. We had the likes of Ian Gay crowing about how well they played. Honestly some of thr comments after that game were embarrassing. They lost 5-1 to us for God's sake, to us I can only guess that Ian was in Tinnions inbox telling us to get that guy in

The warnings were there in that 5-1 defeat. Looked OK at times but ultimately we're outclassed and lost. And that's how I'd describe Mannings time here. 

What do Jon and BT know about tactics and philosophies? BT was an abject failure as a manager here. I can only guess that with their limited knowledge they were taken in by all of Mannings text book speaking. 

 

Obviously it was just one game and it's not fair to purely judge Manning on that, but it still seems so bizarre to me that we've replaced a manager with a lower level one that got hammered by us in the same season

I'd imagine that might be the only time that's ever happened

Pearson must be just so baffled

[Bat Fastard]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

If you tell players they are good enough for top 6, and they aren't performing to that level, then I can't see how that is positive. 

All it does is create questions as to why you/we/ they aren't performing to that level. 

NP used to repeatedly say he needed the players to believe in themselves. 

We have had and have now a squad that is mediocre. Telling them they are better than that does nothing. They need to be told they need to improve and better themselves. 

I think that every player in the squad would want to do better and become better players  that is ambition. They have to believe that can achieve those ambitions - including maybe playing at the highest level. It is the job of the leaders in the club to nurture that belief and I find it disappointing that some on the forum, which I guess is representative of the fan base) are prepared to rubbish the prospects of a very talented 19 year old player making only his second sub appearance in a very demanding league.  There are always those who look at glasses being half empty. The games against West Ham and Forest showed that there is great potential in the squad.  It is wonderful what can be achieved with belief and positive reinforcement.

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 minutes ago, Roe said:

 

Obviously it was just one game and it's not fair to purely judge Manning on that, but it still seems so bizarre to me that we've replaced a manager with a lower level one that got hammered by us in the same season

Peak Tinnion. 

[Cowshed]

22 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

If you're Man City you can. If you have a better team than your opponents you can. 

If you're Bristol City, you can't, not even with unlimited amounts of training days on the grass. 

If your Man City you can what? Manchester City generally play possession football and positionally through the thirds. And how does that relate to BCFC? 

Bristol City are not attempting to play like Manchester City.  

 

 

[Sheltons Army]

@Cowshed

 

You clearly have a high degree of knowledge , qualifications etc of modern coaching and philosophies , and appear to understand what LM is trying to and on the path of developing.

It would be good for me , and the average fan , if in layman’s terms,  if you could set out what this is and what we should expect to see, and notice as it develops,  and what profile of recruitment we could expect to see from him moving forward 

Edited February 26 by Sheltons Army

[spudski]

9 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I think that every player in the squad would want to do better and become better players  that is ambition. They have to believe that can achieve those ambitions - including maybe playing at the highest level. It is the job of the leaders in the club to nurture that belief and I find it disappointing that some on the forum, which I guess is representative of the fan base) are prepared to rubbish the prospects of a very talented 19 year old player making only his second sub appearance in a very demanding league.  There are always those who look at glasses being half empty. The games against West Ham and Forest showed that there is great potential in the squad.  It is wonderful what can be achieved with belief and positive reinforcement.

LM mentioned the mental strength of the players. So did NP. Who are they going to learn that mental strength from if you get rid of experience who knows how to deal with situations. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

8 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

If your Man City you can what? Manchester City generally play possession football and positionally through the thirds. And how does that relate to BCFC? 

Bristol City are not attempting to play like Manchester City.  

 

 

You said "You can play from possession and play on the front foot" that's how Man City play, hence my comment.

Well excuse me for believing that Manning ball was very much like how Man City play. Maybe the fact he crafted his philosophies whilst working for the City group maybe. 

The City group obviously didn't think much of the guy as they allowed him to leave the group. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

LM mentioned the mental strength of the players. So did NP. Who are they going to learn that mental strength from if you get rid of experience who knows how to deal with situations. 

It's all irrelevant Spud. The mental side of the game is irrelevant. 

It's all about on the grass coaching don't you know

[bearded_red]

2 hours ago, Cole Not Gas said:

I now have another reason to hope we win v Cardiff, not just the 3 points; but to stop this utter garbage being posted on a forum for City supporters who dont necessarily want to hear the club they support constantly being 'rubbished' by people on Social Media. I can only presume those on here who like Italian-sounding names or districts of Bristol that should read 'Fishponds' or 'Eastville' rather than 'Redland' didnt go to the W.Ham games, nor the Forest games, nor recently to Coventry nor to Boro. I cant even believe they went to our last but one home game.

 

Good lord, you must be due a readable post soon.

[Selred]

7 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

The City group obviously didn't think much of the guy as they allowed him to leave the group. 

Bristol City obviously didn't think much of Alex Scott, as they allowed him to leave the club.

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 minutes ago, Selred said:

Bristol City obviously didn't think much of Alex Scott, as they allowed him to leave the club.

Well the context here is that at Lommel he spent 11 million which is an incredible amount for that league and they finished 3rd. 

Alex Scott showed his class for us, contract was winding down and a premier league club came in for him. We wanted him to stay but he wouldn't sign a new deal and wanted to leave. 

[Bat Fastard]

23 minutes ago, spudski said:

LM mentioned the mental strength of the players. So did NP. Who are they going to learn that mental strength from if you get rid of experience who knows how to deal with situations. 

I tend to agree and think that Nigel had the greater depth.  Maybe Manning will surprise us all. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 minute ago, Bat Fastard said:

I tend to agree and think that Nigel had the greater depth.  Maybe Manning will surprise us all. 

Thats total bs and seems to be a regular story that's going around lately in order to down play the shite job Manning is doing. 

Manning has never had a situation herd where he's only ever had 1 cb fit for example. Imagine how bad things would be if he were faced with that situation!

[extonsred]

On a slightly diversionary tack...my anxieties are the weakness of the board we have, seriously lacking in any footballing club management nous. 

We have no recruitment philosophy it appears...if we do it is very light on experienced staff, we have no DoF, we have a rookie manager (who i so want to be successful ..who has brought a few games of real encouragement but far too many of abject performances), we have BT (technical director?) - great club servant ..does well with youngsters n needs to stay in that Dept, we have a Chair / CEO..not sure what he is but certainly doesn't inspire confidence... the board seems to have been whittled down to a few people who give me no confidence at all that they can seriously move my club forward in any substantial way.

Who in football could seriously revive this sleeping giant, and I do believe it is, would come to city after the chaos and lack of seizing opportunities seen over decades. Second rate management gives us second rate team, second rate prospects. Yes it is a rant. .

After years of supporting the team, 65 in fact, whilst I admit I did have faith in NP with RG working together, (and N P with that temporary CEO of high reputation) I now have very little faith..and am already seriously considering not renewing ST next year.. certainly won't be an Early Bird if they have the courage to offer this in the next few weeks...which I doubt! Very sad!

[Ivorguy]

8 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I tend to agree and think that Nigel had the greater depth.  Maybe Manning will surprise us all. 

And pigs might fly

[Bat Fastard]

3 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

And pigs might fly

That is certainly a logical possibility!

[Numero Uno]

11 minutes ago, extonsred said:

On a slightly diversionary tack...my anxieties are the weakness of the board we have, seriously lacking in any footballing club management nous. 

We have no recruitment philosophy it appears...if we do it is very light on experienced staff, we have no DoF, we have a rookie manager (who i so want to be successful ..who has brought a few games of real encouragement but far too many of abject performances), we have BT (technical director?) - great club servant ..does well with youngsters n needs to stay in that Dept, we have a Chair / CEO..not sure what he is but certainly doesn't inspire confidence... the board seems to have been whittled down to a few people who give me no confidence at all that they can seriously move my club forward in any substantial way.

Who in football could seriously revive this sleeping giant, and I do believe it is, would come to city after the chaos and lack of seizing opportunities seen over decades. Second rate management gives us second rate team, second rate prospects. Yes it is a rant. .

After years of supporting the team, 65 in fact, whilst I admit I did have faith in NP with RG working together, (and N P with that temporary CEO of high reputation) I now have very little faith..and am already seriously considering not renewing ST next year.. certainly won't be an Early Bird if they have the courage to offer this in the next few weeks...which I doubt! Very sad!

Whilst we remain a Championship club season ticket sales will hold up. We have a few big home games on the horizon and attendances will hold up for those. What I can see happening though is 20K crowds for Huddersfield, Rotherham and Blackburn with circa 15k actually in the ground if performances and results don’t improve.

If we were to get relegated in the next season or two then you would see a large drop off in ST sales imo probably down to 11k tops.

[Galley is our king]

10 minutes ago, extonsred said:

On a slightly diversionary tack...my anxieties are the weakness of the board we have, seriously lacking in any footballing club management nous. 

We have no recruitment philosophy it appears...if we do it is very light on experienced staff, we have no DoF, we have a rookie manager (who i so want to be successful ..who has brought a few games of real encouragement but far too many of abject performances), we have BT (technical director?) - great club servant ..does well with youngsters n needs to stay in that Dept, we have a Chair / CEO..not sure what he is but certainly doesn't inspire confidence... the board seems to have been whittled down to a few people who give me no confidence at all that they can seriously move my club forward in any substantial way.

Who in football could seriously revive this sleeping giant, and I do believe it is, would come to city after the chaos and lack of seizing opportunities seen over decades. Second rate management gives us second rate team, second rate prospects. Yes it is a rant. .

After years of supporting the team, 65 in fact, whilst I admit I did have faith in NP with RG working together, (and N P with that temporary CEO of high reputation) I now have very little faith..and am already seriously considering not renewing ST next year.. certainly won't be an Early Bird if they have the courage to offer this in the next few weeks...which I doubt! Very sad!

I totally agree with this post. Thank you.

I for one (and I know others) who have already taken the decision not to renew. I've supported City (like you), for many years, 62 and counting but I have rarely felt so disillusioned at the powers that be.

Neither JL or BT have the qualities, qualifications or experience to be in post.

Something must change, maybe SL needs to step in, regain control and put in place a few professional people who know what they are doing because the 2 mentioned above definitely do not...

 

[spudski]

27 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I tend to agree and think that Nigel had the greater depth.  Maybe Manning will surprise us all. 

What experience can Manning give to young players, on how to be mentally strong against adversity on the pitch and when coaching at Championship level. Against better players and coaches. 

Who is going to be that experienced head/heads on the pitch. 

He's never done it and we won't have any players who have achieved anything either. 

It's barmy mentality to have a team full of young and athletic players with no experience, coached by someone who's done nothing. 

Which bit of that thinking makes any sense at this level?