Sid Out

[Merrick's Marvels]

3 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

The cup games were not a barometer reading but an indication of how the squad could perform over 4 matches.  

 

But we don't get promoted over 4 games!!!

They have to do it over 46 and are clearly not capable of sustaining a high enough level of performance for enough matches to do so. We all know this.

The cup games are IRRELEVANT.

[Bat Fastard]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

I think you'll find most of the negativity isn't towards Manning perse.

It has more to do with what's been said by JL and BT...how NP was sacked, the lies around that, the quotes that we have a squad that in their eyes is top 6. Even saying they expected promotion this season. 

Manning was brought in to implement that...not to be given more transfer windows and to break up a squad considered promotion quality. 

A squad by their own thinking has quality, which they now want to replace with the likes of Mehmetti. 

And to rid the experience...

We are not totally opposed in our views. We do not know what happened inside the club in terms of debate and discussions. Everyone assumed that Tins is the baddy, but they are only putting two and two together and maybe ignoring the fact that the answer is not 22. 

Of course Manning will hope to better himself by managing at a higher level. From what I can see he doesn't seem to stay in one job for very long, maybe that is an indication that he stays until he is "found out" but that might be unfair.

Mehmetti certainly can be a frustrating player and I have said before that his main problem is lack of pace to go with his obvious skill on the ball but inability to consistently make good decisions. Hopefully he will come back next season as a better player.

[Natchfever]

17 minutes ago, Cidre Monita said:

With all due respect that is nonsensical. Do you honestly think that JL is acting independently of his father? SL is the overlord of our club and anything his son or Tinman say is direct from the big man himself. Nothing will change until he sells up which will hopefully be in my lifetime. 

Missed the point mate.

 

[P'head Red]

1 hour ago, Red white and red said:

Only in recent months?

First time you’re looking forward to being sold?

Seriously, Lansdown lost touch years ago. McInnes wasn’t the correct replacement, brought in a load of overpaid, average players and we got relegated. Lee Johnson was here for far too long and was allowed to spend far too much money on average players. A very bloated squad. Lansdown had absolutely no grip on anything and look where we ended up. A financial shambles.

Steve Cotterill wasn’t his choice and look how that went. We brought in the correct players, played unbelievable football, passion amongst the fanbase and absolutely romped league 1. No credit to Lansdown for that. 

The one person who was doing well on a nothing budget, trimmed the wage bill, brought a bit of positivity with it, experienced at managing at this level, has been sacked. Purely because Lansdown cannot deal with anybody who dare say ‘no’ to him. He does not know how to have challenging conversations with managers. Yes men only I’m afraid.

As long as Lansdown is at the helm, this club will be a mediocre, unattractive club. Almost a laughing stock to other clubs and fans. The Lansdown/Bristol Sport/cosy, soft image is the sole reason I haven’t been in the last 3 years. I absolutely love Bristol City but I hate the club we have become. 

With all due respect, supporters are all at different points of their lives. Whilst I wasn't by any means young at the point of McInnes, I wasn't old enough to notice or care about the bigger picture. 

Whilst there was much wrong with the LJ era, you can't deny we did play some very nice football at times, especially around the time of 17/18. 

This coupled with the redevelopment, it felt good to be a Bristol city fan. 

Furthermore, the appointment of Pearson was Lansdown's appointment, and one that surprised me (in a good way). 

But having more awareness of what goes on outside of the pitch over the last 5 or so years, and the head scratching appointments at board level, the sacking of Nigel and appointment of the ultimately disappointing Manning has proven to be the final straw.

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

We are not totally opposed in our views. We do not know what happened inside the club in terms of debate and discussions. Everyone assumed that Tins is the baddy, but they are only putting two and two together and maybe ignoring the fact that the answer is not 22. 

Of course Manning will hope to better himself by managing at a higher level. From what I can see he doesn't seem to stay in one job for very long, maybe that is an indication that he stays until he is "found out" but that might be unfair.

Mehmetti certainly can be a frustrating player and I have said before that his main problem is lack of pace to go with his obvious skill on the ball but inability to consistently make good decisions. Hopefully he will come back next season as a better player.

Whilst BT has been a long servant for this Club, do you really think his position now is justified?

He spent the great majority of his playing career at 3rd division level. Failed as a player/ manager. 

Proved he's got what it takes at Academy level. 

Which is where his strengths are. 

What qualifications and experience does he have at this level that makes you think he knows what he's doing to get promoted or even stop us getting relegated. 

Combine him and Crayola...and it reads like a joke. 

In all seriousness...how do we expect great things under their guidance...

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

A lot in there - but just to highlight this. 
 

What you’re describing is a move to a more possession heavy side in a nutshell. And to transition to that, there will be transition of players. And I don’t disagree with building from the base - but what it is would be contrary to a) the continuation strategy and b) our already stated aims in the summer

To expand, we have given Zac Vyner a handsome contract this season. By not including him you’ve expressed implicitly concerns over whether he can do the job LM wants him to do (and FWIW I think a fit Atkinson could) and therefore there should be questions asked - if this was the strategy - as to how good an idea this was.

Im not going to disagree in any way that Max isn’t the best in a possession side. Hes got better, but the distribution is still not great. If you want the model, he needs replacing.

And obviously it is a process, but working on the “build from the back” maxim it suggests spending money there first.

The second issue there is that both Tinnion and Manning have identified the key target in the summer as being a striker. That suggests they see the first building block as different to your analysis (which I don’t disagree with as the sensible way of executing the model). This means the problems then continue as you’ve put the windows in but not built the foundation.

You do have to overlay the club and where you start from in thinking at this point. I think to transition fully and effectively to this model (if it works) is a 2-3 season job. And by the limited number of players you’ve highlighted you’re in the same place. We aren’t going to be holding players of quality for that long, and also based on Liams history, he’d look to move if it does work quickly.

So, I think it is almost as simplistic as I do get what he’s trying to do in theory. And I do see what a “good” Manning team should look like. But I think it’s kind of back to a point that @Davefevs made before - Russell Martin is better at  Soton than Swansea as he has the players to play his way and they are better than anyone else in the league at doing so, just as Liam did at MK Dons season one. And if we were league one, our relative size would mean we would be able to do that transition quickly. The “issue” becomes at this level we cannot afford or will lose quickly the very good technical players that suit this system.

The utopia is him having the best technical players to play this system. The reality is I don’t think we ever get there both due to time and financial reasons so it’s really what he can do without that “utopia” - which is back to the consistent question over him.

Good post tho

Thanks @Cowshed for kicking this off.

The question (not expecting an answer) is how quickly do you transition the changes required.  And when you can’t do a quick AND perfect transition, how do you implement your compromises?

And from my convo with Rennie this was exactly how Nige approached it.  What’s the objective…how do we achieve (the strategy).  Recognising he couldn’t go “big bang day one” nor “linear” over a period, identify those obstacles to that and build a plan for how to get there?

• fitness
• culture
• recruitment profiling
• player development (not just academy)

I won’t go into detail, but we never got to playing Nige’s ideal way.  It was a set of compromises.  But it was evolving.

For some, that just took too long.  Fine.

For some, it never even got going.  Fine.

We now watch someone else’s take on delivering (JL, BT and LM).  They’ve been given a very solid foundation.

 

[Bat Fastard]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

Whilst BT has been a long servant for this Club, do you really think his position now is justified?

He spent the great majority of his playing career at 3rd division level. Failed as a player/ manager. 

Proved he's got what it takes at Academy level. 

Which is where his strengths are. 

What qualifications and experience does he have at this level that makes you think he knows what he's doing to get promoted or even stop us getting relegated. 

Combine him and Crayola...and it reads like a joke. 

In all seriousness...how do we expect great things under their guidance...

Tins has very extensive football experience and is a loyal servant of our club. His involvement in the academy and desire to help players to get into the senior squad is incredibly valuable, even in cash terms.  If we did not have his input we may have had to pay very much more in wages and transfer fees.  I also have reservations about JL, who is shadow of his father. 

[spudski]

8 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Tins has very extensive football experience and is a loyal servant of our club. His involvement in the academy and desire to help players to get into the senior squad is incredibly valuable, even in cash terms.  If we did not have his input we may have had to pay very much more in wages and transfer fees.  I also have reservations about JL, who is shadow of his father. 

Like I implied and said numerous times. His strengths are at Academy level. 

You don't give jobs to people, especially when they've failed at being manager, let alone Technical Director just because of being a loyal servant.

[Silvio Dante]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Thanks @Cowshed for kicking this off.

The question (not expecting an answer) is how quickly do you transition the changes required.  And when you can’t do a quick AND perfect transition, how do you implement your compromises?

And from my convo with Rennie this was exactly how Nige approached it.  What’s the objective…how do we achieve (the strategy).  Recognising he couldn’t go “big bang day one” nor “linear” over a period, identify those obstacles to that and build a plan for how to get there?

• fitness
• culture
• recruitment profiling
• player development (not just academy)

I won’t go into detail, but we never got to playing Nige’s ideal way.  It was a set of compromises.  But it was evolving.

For some, that just took too long.  Fine.

For some, it never even got going.  Fine.

We now watch someone else’s take on delivering (JL, BT and LM).  They’ve been given a very solid foundation.

 

To quote Liam “That’s the biggest bit isn’t it”?

What @Cowshed accurately describes is the process of a rebuild. (And for gods sake nobody respond with “top six squad” etc etc). 
 

In the process of a rebuild - if utopia is your only aim - then things can go wrong. Often. And in a lot of ways this is just another angle on what’s already been said about Liam - can he adapt his approach to stop those things going wrong until he reaches somewhere near utopia in all the sectors you identify.

Eg you replace Williams with Bird - you move a touch more towards ball retention, but it’s not the model Cowshed suggests. How do you play then?

You then replace Conway with a different type of front man - more physical - but it’s still not utopia. How do you play then?

You replace Mehmeti with someone with more nouse and game awareness - it’s another step. How do you play then?

(NB at any point this is not a mass change, but a tweak - going from A-B as opposed to the whole alphabet)

From the way Liam wants to play we are probably 2-3 seasons as I said from seeing results. What he has to do is not rip up the base and he has to be able to play at each stage. So if he thinks he has 40% of what he needs now - that’s fine. Play as close as you can to your principles in a way that utilises that 40% in the best way. If the summer gets you to 60% - great, tweak again. But you’re never getting to 100% so you always need to compromise.

In a nutshell, I think that’s what we saw with Nige. The annoyance is that I think we’d tipped over the 50% mark in the way he wanted us to play and from there it’s generally an upswing. We’ve reset though - we are where we are.

I’d repeat - there is a bit of a misconception over people’s misgivings around Liam. They are around adaptability, in game management etc - in short what happens when the plan doesn’t work or you can’t implement it as opposed to anything else. And getting from where he is to his utopia is pretty much just another strand to that - but if he can’t manage those transition periods - irrespective of what we can see the intent is, he won’t be here long.

[Bat Fastard]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Like I implied and said numerous times. His strengths are at Academy level. 

You don't give jobs to people, especially when they've failed at being manager, let alone Technical Director just because of being a loyal servant.

Management was clearly not his best position but his vast football experience and devotion to the club are worth a lot in my opinion. I also reckon that he is part of a management team that costs a lot less than previous iterations. If he continues to recruit well, then he is doing his job.  I very much doubt if he could sack someone like Nigel, but he would have been under some pressure from the bean counters to help to lower costs. After all it is a professional club.

[Galley is our king]

5 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

Every time we chop and change managers, we are left with a residue of the squad who do not fit in with the new plans.  The cost of carrying these players and changing them is exceptionally high, so it seems eminently sensible to have a strand of continuity in the management structure. Tins is that man. He may not get every decision right and others may not always agree with his opinions and he will never please all the people all the time.  That does not mean that he is not making a massive and valuable contribution to the football side of the club.

No! It makes perfect sense not to sack a bloody good manager in the first place!!

[Antman]

3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

To quote Liam “That’s the biggest bit isn’t it”?

What @Cowshed accurately describes is the process of a rebuild. (And for gods sake nobody respond with “top six squad” etc etc). 
 

In the process of a rebuild - if utopia is your only aim - then things can go wrong. Often. And in a lot of ways this is just another angle on what’s already been said about Liam - can he adapt his approach to stop those things going wrong until he reaches somewhere near utopia in all the sectors you identify.

Eg you replace Williams with Bird - you move a touch more towards ball retention, but it’s not the model Cowshed suggests. How do you play then?

You then replace Conway with a different type of front man - more physical - but it’s still not utopia. How do you play then?

You replace Mehmeti with someone with more nouse and game awareness - it’s another step. How do you play then?

(NB at any point this is not a mass change, but a tweak - going from A-B as opposed to the whole alphabet)

From the way Liam wants to play we are probably 2-3 seasons as I said from seeing results. What he has to do is not rip up the base and he has to be able to play at each stage. So if he thinks he has 40% of what he needs now - that’s fine. Play as close as you can to your principles in a way that utilises that 40% in the best way. If the summer gets you to 60% - great, tweak again. But you’re never getting to 100% so you always need to compromise.

In a nutshell, I think that’s what we saw with Nige. The annoyance is that I think we’d tipped over the 50% mark in the way he wanted us to play and from there it’s generally an upswing. We’ve reset though - we are where we are.

I’d repeat - there is a bit of a misconception over people’s misgivings around Liam. They are around adaptability, in game management etc - in short what happens when the plan doesn’t work or you can’t implement it as opposed to anything else. And getting from where he is to his utopia is pretty much just another strand to that - but if he can’t manage those transition periods - irrespective of what we can see the intent is, he won’t be here long.

and just a note regarding the potential level of squad 'churn'.

assume you can actually shift 1 or 2 players for money, (?) but given the state of the market this would mean we would be - once again - writing off a lot of players by terminating contracts or letting them go. Otherwise we will  end up with a Russell Osman size (and style) squad of overwhelming indifference!

not exactly a sustainable way of operating

[Cidre Monita]

35 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Missed the point mate.

 

Must have missed it. What was the point you were trying to make? 

[frenchred]

3 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Management was clearly not his best position but his vast football experience and devotion to the club are worth a lot in my opinion. I also reckon that he is part of a management team that costs a lot less than previous iterations. If he continues to recruit well, then he is doing his job.  I very much doubt if he could sack someone like Nigel, but he would have been under some pressure from the bean counters to help to lower costs. After all it is a professional club.

Devotion to the club! Do me a favour

No other club would employ him is my guess, it's not as though his stock has ever been that high!

He's been handsomely rewarded for his time here, he wouldn't have come back from Spain otherwise.

All this great servant, devotion etc is bullshit! They are all very very well paid (some would say overpaid) for what they have achieved

[Alessandro]

EDIT-below

Edited February 26 by Alessandro

[Silvio Dante]

1 minute ago, Antman said:

and just a note regarding the potential level of squad 'churn'.

assume you can actually shift 1 or 2 players for money, (?) but given the state of the market this would mean we would be - once again - writing off a lot of players by terminating contracts or letting them go. Otherwise we will  end up with a Russell Osman size (and style) squad of overwhelming indifference!

not exactly a sustainable way of operating

No, and I’ve been consistent that I don’t think - as we stand now - I’d retain Liam in the summer, and even if we did I’d be reticent to give him major funds.

To get to his utopia (I will keep calling it that) he needs absolutely shedloads of money (both Oxford and MK were top six budgets) and we’re not on that page. People who say he needs “his players” miss that point - he won’t get the players - in full - he needs this summer so he has to be able to manage without that. And the expectation will be a strike for the playoffs even without his utopia.

The issue is that he’s not showing any major signs he can adapt without a “perfect” setup for him. Thats the whole point around adapting and in game management and the improvement he needs in the very near future.

[Sheltons Army]

10 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Management was clearly not his best position but his vast football experience and devotion to the club are worth a lot in my opinion. I also reckon that he is part of a management team that costs a lot less than previous iterations. If he continues to recruit well, then he is doing his job.  I very much doubt if he could sack someone like Nigel, but he would have been under some pressure from the bean counters to help to lower costs. After all it is a professional club.

Wow

 

 

La Di la Di la Di la 

 

Breaking News

Nigel Pearson removed from post in cost cutting exercise

Edited February 26 by Sheltons Army

[Alessandro]

16 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

To quote Liam “That’s the biggest bit isn’t it”?

What @Cowshed accurately describes is the process of a rebuild. (And for gods sake nobody respond with “top six squad” etc etc). 
 

In the process of a rebuild - if utopia is your only aim - then things can go wrong. Often. And in a lot of ways this is just another angle on what’s already been said about Liam - can he adapt his approach to stop those things going wrong until he reaches somewhere near utopia in all the sectors you identify.

Eg you replace Williams with Bird - you move a touch more towards ball retention, but it’s not the model Cowshed suggests. How do you play then?

You then replace Conway with a different type of front man - more physical - but it’s still not utopia. How do you play then?

You replace Mehmeti with someone with more nouse and game awareness - it’s another step. How do you play then?

(NB at any point this is not a mass change, but a tweak - going from A-B as opposed to the whole alphabet)

From the way Liam wants to play we are probably 2-3 seasons as I said from seeing results. What he has to do is not rip up the base and he has to be able to play at each stage. So if he thinks he has 40% of what he needs now - that’s fine. Play as close as you can to your principles in a way that utilises that 40% in the best way. If the summer gets you to 60% - great, tweak again. But you’re never getting to 100% so you always need to compromise.

In a nutshell, I think that’s what we saw with Nige. The annoyance is that I think we’d tipped over the 50% mark in the way he wanted us to play and from there it’s generally an upswing. We’ve reset though - we are where we are.

I’d repeat - there is a bit of a misconception over people’s misgivings around Liam. They are around adaptability, in game management etc - in short what happens when the plan doesn’t work or you can’t implement it as opposed to anything else. And getting from where he is to his utopia is pretty much just another strand to that - but if he can’t manage those transition periods - irrespective of what we can see the intent is, he won’t be here long.

 

36 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Thanks @Cowshed for kicking this off.

The question (not expecting an answer) is how quickly do you transition the changes required.  And when you can’t do a quick AND perfect transition, how do you implement your compromises?

And from my convo with Rennie this was exactly how Nige approached it.  What’s the objective…how do we achieve (the strategy).  Recognising he couldn’t go “big bang day one” nor “linear” over a period, identify those obstacles to that and build a plan for how to get there?

• fitness
• culture
• recruitment profiling
• player development (not just academy)

I won’t go into detail, but we never got to playing Nige’s ideal way.  It was a set of compromises.  But it was evolving.

For some, that just took too long.  Fine.

For some, it never even got going.  Fine.

We now watch someone else’s take on delivering (JL, BT and LM).  They’ve been given a very solid foundation.

 

For me you've both kind of touched on something here which isn't spoken about enough - that it's fine having an objective and a plan, but for success (in this case promotion) this has to be balanced with a target/limit/aim time wise IMO. I have no sense the club have a realistic time target that they're willing to stick to, 3 years, 4 years, 5 years whatever, pick based on academy prospects and budgets then stick to it. 

It's always have a go for 2 years then try something else for 2 years....

Especially when it comes to recruitment - fine recruit to a type but it needs to 'culminate'...i.e plan seasons ahead to a point where your best youngsters are blooming around the same few seasons, you do everything to keep hold of them, then recruit to fill in the blanks - under Gould and Pearson, I got more of a sense and faith that they understood that and could push for it. 

Under BT it's all recruiting to 'type' but what for? At the moment the club seems to care more about and talk much more about the cycle of producing and selling individual players rather than developing a successful squad. SL was so happy to talk about the great deal of selling Scott but forgot we needed to replace him...

There has to be an 'end point' - even if it adjusts slightly or is missed - or we're stuck going round in circles. 

[Alessandro]

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Wow

 

 

La Di la Di la Di la 

Pay peanuts....get

[Bat Fastard]

8 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Devotion to the club! Do me a favour

No other club would employ him is my guess, it's not as though his stock has ever been that high!

He's been handsomely rewarded for his time here, he wouldn't have come back from Spain otherwise.

All this great servant, devotion etc is bullshit! They are all very very well paid (some would say overpaid) for what they have achieved

As you say, it's your guess.

[Bat Fastard]

7 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Wow

 

 

La Di la Di la Di la 

 

Breaking News

Nigel Pearson removed from post in cost cutting exercise

Nigel plus two coaches replaced by a manager and coach from the lower leagues. Go figure the cost and add in Rennie whilst you are there.

[Sheltons Army]

Just now, Bat Fastard said:

Nigel plus two coaches replaced by a manager and coach from the lower leagues. Go figure the cost and add in Rennie whilst you are there.

So you’re saying Nigel and his team were sacked to save money ?

 

 

[spudski]

22 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Management was clearly not his best position but his vast football experience and devotion to the club are worth a lot in my opinion. I also reckon that he is part of a management team that costs a lot less than previous iterations. If he continues to recruit well, then he is doing his job.  I very much doubt if he could sack someone like Nigel, but he would have been under some pressure from the bean counters to help to lower costs. After all it is a professional club.

Your last sentence is questionable...meant to be a  Professionally run Club...or how BT prefers to spell it...' Proffesional ' or ' Teknical '...very professional .

Having spoken to previous managers and former players, the underlying mantra from all of them, was their surprise as to unprofessional and Amateur we were run. 

[Bat Fastard]

5 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

So you’re saying Nigel and his team were sacked to save money ?

 

 

I'm saying that the club is owned and run by accountants. Work it out from there. This is the same reason that the academy is so important because it is a cheaper way to recruit and pay players. Those who don't quite make it can be sold or provide sell on clauses. There are no coincidences.

[Bat Fastard]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

Your last sentence is questionable...meant to be a  Professionally run Club...or how BT prefers to spell it...' Proffesional ' or ' Teknical '...very professional .

Having spoken to previous managers and former players, the underlying mantra from all of them, was their surprise as to unprofessional and Amateur we were run. 

It is a game of opinions. Tins recruits well and develops player well. He doesn't need to be the best educated person in the club to do his job. Forget the snobbery and try to appreciate his contribution.

[Sheltons Army]

5 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I'm saying that the club is owned and run by accountants. Work it out from there. This is the same reason that the academy is so important because it is a cheaper way to recruit and pay players. Those who don't quite make it can be sold or provide sell on clauses. There are no coincidences.

Yeah , ok

 

It all makes sense now

 

You are very polite but are absolutely the perfect lemming type Supporter the Lansdowns love

For cost conscious accountants their performance on a financial basis is quite something 

 

* BTW , fwiw they are not Accountants

 

 

Edited February 26 by Sheltons Army

[Merrick's Marvels]

12 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Nigel plus two coaches replaced by a manager and coach from the lower leagues. Go figure the cost and add in Rennie whilst you are there.

And that's how to get promoted from the toughest league in the world is it?

Appoint cheaper options???????????????

[Davefevs]

48 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

To quote Liam “That’s the biggest bit isn’t it”?

What @Cowshed accurately describes is the process of a rebuild. (And for gods sake nobody respond with “top six squad” etc etc). 
 

In the process of a rebuild - if utopia is your only aim - then things can go wrong. Often. And in a lot of ways this is just another angle on what’s already been said about Liam - can he adapt his approach to stop those things going wrong until he reaches somewhere near utopia in all the sectors you identify.

Eg you replace Williams with Bird - you move a touch more towards ball retention, but it’s not the model Cowshed suggests. How do you play then?

You then replace Conway with a different type of front man - more physical - but it’s still not utopia. How do you play then?

You replace Mehmeti with someone with more nouse and game awareness - it’s another step. How do you play then?

(NB at any point this is not a mass change, but a tweak - going from A-B as opposed to the whole alphabet)

From the way Liam wants to play we are probably 2-3 seasons as I said from seeing results. What he has to do is not rip up the base and he has to be able to play at each stage. So if he thinks he has 40% of what he needs now - that’s fine. Play as close as you can to your principles in a way that utilises that 40% in the best way. If the summer gets you to 60% - great, tweak again. But you’re never getting to 100% so you always need to compromise.

In a nutshell, I think that’s what we saw with Nige. The annoyance is that I think we’d tipped over the 50% mark in the way he wanted us to play and from there it’s generally an upswing. We’ve reset though - we are where we are.

I’d repeat - there is a bit of a misconception over people’s misgivings around Liam. They are around adaptability, in game management etc - in short what happens when the plan doesn’t work or you can’t implement it as opposed to anything else. And getting from where he is to his utopia is pretty much just another strand to that - but if he can’t manage those transition periods - irrespective of what we can see the intent is, he won’t be here long.

Yep, that’s it.  It’s just more of “cause and effect”.  It happens throughout football in lots of different way, but especially tactically.

I digress.  As you say what happens when you replace Williams with Bird?  Who wins the ball back in the first place is one question that needs addressing.

I also think we’d tipped over whatever the magical number was.  I think Nige did too, and was getting frustrated that he wasn’t getting the chance to see it through.

33 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

No, and I’ve been consistent that I don’t think - as we stand now - I’d retain Liam in the summer, and even if we did I’d be reticent to give him major funds.

To get to his utopia (I will keep calling it that) he needs absolutely shedloads of money (both Oxford and MK were top six budgets) and we’re not on that page. People who say he needs “his players” miss that point - he won’t get the players - in full - he needs this summer so he has to be able to manage without that. And the expectation will be a strike for the playoffs even without his utopia.

The issue is that he’s not showing any major signs he can adapt without a “perfect” setup for him. Thats the whole point around adapting and in game management and the improvement he needs in the very near future.

I guess the other thing is we’ll never be a top 6 budget team in the Championship until perversely we get relegated from the PL!  I’m sure the irony of that statement isn’t lost on you!

31 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

 

For me you've both kind of touched on something here which isn't spoken about enough - that it's fine having an objective and a plan, but for success (in this case promotion) this has to be balanced with a target/limit/aim time wise IMO. I have no sense the club have a realistic time target that they're willing to stick to, 3 years, 4 years, 5 years whatever, pick based on academy prospects and budgets then stick to it. 

It's always have a go for 2 years then try something else for 2 years....

Especially when it comes to recruitment - fine recruit to a type but it needs to 'culminate'...i.e plan seasons ahead to a point where your best youngsters are blooming around the same few seasons, you do everything to keep hold of them, then recruit to fill in the blanks - under Gould and Pearson, I got more of a sense and faith that they understood that and could push for it. 

Under BT it's all recruiting to 'type' but what for? At the moment the club seems to care more about and talk much more about the cycle of producing and selling individual players rather than developing a successful squad. SL was so happy to talk about the great deal of selling Scott but forgot we needed to replace him...

There has to be an 'end point' - even if it adjusts slightly or is missed - or we're stuck going round in circles. 

That is the issue, how do you progress the team if your players outgrow you quicker than you can progress the team?  You need a perfect storm or be able to convince your players with “just give me one more season”.  

Edited February 26 by Davefevs

[Natchfever]

25 minutes ago, Cidre Monita said:

Must have missed it. What was the point you were trying to make? 

The point is, as Galley says SL should step in and make things right .

He wont do that but we (or some) hope that he will.

Like some want Tinnion removed. Wont happen so  viewed as a nonsensical pov but nevertheless some live in hope.

[Bat Fastard]

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Yeah , ok

 

It all makes sense now

 

 

You can also add the evidence of our recruitment policy to get cheaper lower league players.